'Anyone for a jelly baby ? ' - Doctor Who discussion thread.

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  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,361
    Gerard wrote: »
    I have just finished the Tom Baker era, and it ended with a bang.

    For more recent news, it's official : the Christmas episode "Twice Upon A Time" will air on BBC One, on monday, december 25th, at 17.30 GMT :

    doctorwhotv.co.uk/capaldis-final-episode-dated-christmas-day-time-slot-confirmed-86459.htm

    And here's a link to pics from the episode :

    doctorwhotv.co.uk/capaldis-final-episode-dated-christmas-day-time-slot-confirmed-86459.htm

    Have you watched Shada? debating whether to buy it or wait for a price drop.
  • Posts: 6,014
    I have watched the first version, the one with Tom Baker filling the blanks. Haven't watched the completed with animation version... yet.

    And now :

  • Posts: 12,526
    This I think will be very entertaining!
  • Posts: 7,653
    Just watched SHADA on bluray and really enjoyed it, the animation is functional and its nice to see the story completely. The last twenty seconds were a sheer delight for any old-time fan. This is certainly not one of Tom Bakers best serials but certainly nice to see the story worded by him.

    I have the 8th Doctors SHADA as well on cd by Big Finish, must listen to it again.
  • Posts: 6,014
    New clip from "wice Upon a Time" :

  • edited December 2017 Posts: 6,014
    AT LAST !!!!!!!!!!!

    doctorwhotv.co.uk/series-9-soundtrack-confirmed-for-release-in-2018-86634.htm

    We've been waiting for it since forever !

    series-9-soundtrack-box.jpg

    My reaction when I heard the news :

  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,361
    Capaldi's finale was so so it repeated a few things we have seen done before, it felt like one episode two many. The excellent finale to season 10 should have been Capaldi's send off. The last moments were interesting one thought occurred to me
    could Jodie Whittackers Doctor be without the TARDIS in her first season?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2017 Posts: 13,999
    David Bradley was by far the best thing, though I do wish the writer didn't have a hard on for the whole "you can't say that anymore" schitck. The 1st Doctor wasn't like that. Yes, he is often categorised as crotchety (which isn't the same as what the writers were trying to portray him as in Twice Upon A Time), but he softened up by The Tenth Planet.

    And must the Tardis explode so often?
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited December 2017 Posts: 25,361


    After show with Moffat interview
    David Bradley was by far the best thing, though I do wish the writer didn't have a hard on for the whole "you can't say that anymore" schitck. The 1st Doctor wasn't like that. Yes, he is often categorised as crotchety (which isn't the same as what the writers were trying to portray him as in Twice Upon A Time), but he softened up by The Tenth Planet.

    And must the Tardis explode so often?

    The PC stuff in the script fell flat for me


    When Jodie Doctor
    fell out of the TARDIS the viewing screen said 'systems crisis, multiple operations failure'

    My guess is the Doctor will have
    amnesia at the beginning of season 11 due to the fall.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,181
    When Jodie smiled at her reflection she somehow looked exactly like David Tennant (IMHO).

    Possibly my favourite Christmas special so far; less silly than most, but still festive.
  • I liked it a lot. No action or tension, not even any real villains, but then we already had the big final battle in the last episode. I think it worked well for what it was. It made me laugh a few times and the last shot of him Bill and Nardole before they faded away made me feel genuinely sad. Really well done epilogue to a really great series (best since Eccleston for me).

    The cliffhanger was exciting too. I sort of fall in and out of watching this show to be honest, but I'll definitely be tuning in next year to see how it is.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Just caught the finale off and on, without a lot of context for what was happening, but I thought Capaldi's finale couple of minutes were nice and impactful. The Doctor seemed to be genuinely depressed at how alone he is after so many lifetimes and lost companions and wanted to give it all up, but the universe cried out to him and so he stepped back from the brink. I've never been a big fan of the character, but that aspect of him-a jaded warrior-is one I enjoy.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    Just caught the finale off and on, without a lot of context for what was happening, but I thought Capaldi's finale couple of minutes were nice and impactful. The Doctor seemed to be genuinely depressed at how alone he is after so many lifetimes and lost companions and wanted to give it all up, but the universe cried out to him and so he stepped back from the brink. I've never been a big fan of the character, but that aspect of him-a jaded warrior-is one I enjoy.

    Until I read the last sentence, I was going to ask how much of the previous Doctors you had seen, and what you had thought of them.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,361
    I think the problem one of a few I have with Twice Upon A Time is season 10 finale was a truly magical moment as an allusion to the first Doctor, in the Christmas special it just does not work for me at all, not for one second do I believe David Bradley is the first Doctor.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited December 2017 Posts: 25,361
    A female Doctor initially was jarring though it's happening now, I like Jodie Whittacker alot I'll certainly support her, Jodie is a very good actress.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 25,361
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Though I've watched at least a chunk of each Doctor's run, and all of the episode since and including the '90s film, I've never been a huge fan. I watched most of the modern episodes over a few months period. My point being, I'm not that invested. A female Doctor in the '60s-'90s would have been interesting, but seeing how this came about and the outside pressures that were being brought to bear, I probably won't carry on. It feels too much like a bow to current trends and expectations.

    Within the show its been built up for several years if anything the pressures come from fan resistance, I understand why it's happening one reason is the show has gone stale. Female Doctor is not my concern, the next show runner has a poor track record with Doctor Who which worries me.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Just caught the finale off and on, without a lot of context for what was happening, but I thought Capaldi's finale couple of minutes were nice and impactful. The Doctor seemed to be genuinely depressed at how alone he is after so many lifetimes and lost companions and wanted to give it all up, but the universe cried out to him and so he stepped back from the brink. I've never been a big fan of the character, but that aspect of him-a jaded warrior-is one I enjoy.

    Until I read the last sentence, I was going to ask how much of the previous Doctors you had seen, and what you had thought of them.

    @MajorDSmythe, I've caught parts of Eccleston, Tennant, Smith and Capaldi, but definitely the most with Tennant as I was always watching BBC America as a kid during his run and always saw marathons on.

    Eccleston I can barely remember anything about outside of Rose being there, but I do think that's because he came off as more stern and didn't have a lot to make him stand out.

    Tennant was probably the best I saw of that group, as I loved what they did with his character, not only in look but what David brought to it. I guess that, in the same way Sean could do it all as Bond, David could as the Doctor too, going from humorous clear to quite touchingly emotive. He had great range and could nail both the excitable curiosity but also the big heart of a man who was always under pressure to save the universe, etc. Without really understanding the history of the character at the time, his regeneration really got to me and his final words spoke to who his character had been that whole time, a little kid who always wanted to see and do more.

    Smith was very similar to Tennant from what I saw, in that he could do both excitable curiosity and emotional content well, but really doubled down on the former. I think Smith was a very engaging actor because like David he knew how to use his body and mannerisms to captivate an audience and build a character, and he could play to the camera well on top of it.

    I've only not caught the start of Capaldi and the end of his run, but from what I saw I liked that they returned the character to more earnestness for the first time since Eccleston and for my money did it right this time. After two very high energy doctors I think it was important for Capaldi's to be this way and I think Capaldi's age and look was a perfect visual signifier for how he'd play the role: like the actor, the doctor is an old man who has seen so much, and he's wondering how much more he wants to see. I thought the little touches of rock n roll they gave Capaldi were interesting, and made him more than just a serious doctor which may be why I didn't attach to Eccleston's. As I said above I really liked his final minutes in the role and, much like Tennant's Doctor, the final scene stayed true to who his character was. He wants to give up and stop his pain, but knows that he's needed by so many out there and, as always, does what he has to do.
  • I've liked all of the doctors, after initially being sceptical about all of the doctors. It's odd. They've all won me over in their own way. I have no reason to doubt that Jodie will do the same. The three beacons for me, that glow just a tad brighter than the rest, are Patrick Troughton, Tom Baker and these days (surprisingly) Matt Smith. They all had that vital touch of the aged alien about them.

    I still love all of the rest, though. That's the thing with Doctor Who; if you don't like a particular Doctor or production team, just hang around, another will be around soon enough.

    Capaldi was a major fan, too. I love the story that Mark Gatiss told: that he owns Jon Pertwee's jacket from 'Planet of The Daleks', that he brought it onto the set, and you can see it on the hatstand as Capaldi regenerates. What a wonderful link to the history of the show, and to Capaldi's younger days in fandom, too. Magic stuff.

    I hope everyone gives Jodie a chance. Let's not forget that she is a Yorkshire lass, and therefore one of the few races in the universe that even the Time Lords look up to.

    It's not Whittaker that I worry about, it is Chibnall...
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    No Classic Who, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. I'm more a fan of the 1963-1996 Doctors, but I did like Smith. I was hesitant about his casting at first, but a few episodes into series 5, I was ready to admit that I was wrong. Eccleston and Tennant, fashion sense aside, blend in together. Capaldi I liked, and had the odd story, but his era was when this.... I don't know, a sort of attitude started to creep into the show. In Kill The Moon, Clara threatened to smack the Doctor so hard, he'd regenerate. It was supposed to be spunky /flirty but it didn't sit well with me.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @MajorDSmythe, can't speak on the old Who as those never aired on BBC America and, while I know some of classic Who used to be on Netflix, the series were all compiled with so many episodes and whole parts of story arcs missing that I concluded it'd be a headache for a nascent viewer like myself to understand any of what was going on while taking that avenue of approach.

    Maybe one day I'll find the time and energy to check the older episodes and doctors out, but sci-fi has never been my arena. I do quite like the looks of Baker's Who, however, and have a feeling he'd be a favorite if I went for it. Love the whole look and vision of the way that character seemed to have been played.
  • Agent_99Agent_99 enjoys a spirited ride as much as the next girl
    Posts: 3,181
    I've just this afternoon encountered Tom Baker guest starring in an episode of Remington Steele, which was a wholly unexpected and delightful experience.

    He's not my favourite Doctor but he's so brilliant in everything he does - favourites are Puddleglum in the BBC Chronicles of Narnia and Barley Blair in the radio adaptation of The Russia House.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2017 Posts: 13,999
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    I've just this afternoon encountered Tom Baker guest starring in an episode of Remington Steele, which was a wholly unexpected and delightful experience.

    He's not my favourite Doctor but he's so brilliant in everything he does - favourites are Puddleglum in the BBC Chronicles of Narnia and Barley Blair in the radio adaptation of The Russia House.

    I feel the same way, he isn't my favourite, not even top 5, but in other things he is a fine actor (when I think of him outside of Who, I think of Cold Winter, Vault Of Horror, Blackadder and Swiss Toni). And in some in some interviews, he is a tonic for dull days.



    "I didn't say swear words, I didn't say words like fffred."
    - Tom Baker, trolling before trolling was a thing.
  • Posts: 7,653
    His recent two appearances in the Doctor Who universe are a sight for sore eyes. I would love it if Jodi would meet this fellow as well.
  • Posts: 3,333
    David Bradley was by far the best thing, though I do wish the writer didn't have a hard on for the whole "you can't say that anymore" schitck. The 1st Doctor wasn't like that. Yes, he is often categorised as crotchety (which isn't the same as what the writers were trying to portray him as in Twice Upon A Time), but he softened up by The Tenth Planet.

    And must the Tardis explode so often?
    Yeah, the dialogue was dreadful. The un-PC Doctor didn't make any sense. Surely, the older Hartnell-Doctor-clone would've already visited a future Britain in his timeline and would've known to make adjustments to his over-sensitive future guests? Not that I agree with Moffat's portrayal of the First Doctor. As you quite rightly pointed out, Hartnell was more crotchety than sexist. I read somewhere, can't remember where, but someone said "Hartnell did perform one sexist line in one episode, when he told Barbara to fetch his coat." Yeegods - telling someone of the opposite sex to do something is now mi-skewed as blatant sexism. I guess that means every show, movie, play prior to 2016 that has the boss telling his secretary to take notes, or type a letter, must now be considered sexist too? What has the world come to?

    Personally, I felt David Bradley was squandered. It would've been much better had the Beeb remade the missing Hartnell episodes in colour, utilising his services much better than this rubbish. As you might have gathered, I disliked it immensely.
    Agent_99 wrote: »
    When Jodie smiled at her reflection she somehow looked exactly like David Tennant (IMHO).

    Possibly my favourite Christmas special so far; less silly than most, but still festive.
    I thought she looked more like a young Victoria Wood.
  • Posts: 6,014
    I don't think that the First Doctor's line in this episode are meant to be sexist. I do think, however, that it's One being the troll he was in the original series. It's true that all Doctors have exhibited that sarcastic wit, but One was the king of trolls, as those who have seen "The Three Doctors" or "The Romans" can attest.

    Couldn't see the whole of the episode, but caught the regeneration on youTube, and it's a nice send-off for twelve. But to end the episode on such a cliffhanger, knowing that, according to what I have read, the new series won't start until fall/autumn, that's not going to satisfy the more impatient fans.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @bondsum, that sexism example is hilarious (and demoralizing) to me too. I have the same disapproval when people try to call Bond racist in DN for asking Quarrel to "fetch" his shoes. Would we be calling Quarrel a racist if the roles were reversed, and would we hear women called sexist for requesting a man to fetch her coat? Of course not, and that's the rub of it all. When a man is placed in a woman's position double standards are officially in play and the man can have whatever done onto him that the woman pleases with impunity falling upon the side of whoever is wearing a bra.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    bondsum wrote: »
    Personally, I felt David Bradley was squandered. It would've been much better had the Beeb remade the missing Hartnell episodes in colour, utilising his services much better than this rubbish.

    That's an excellent idea, I really like that, and the same could be done for Troughton. If fully animating the stories is too expensive, then your idea is an avenue they should consider.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Absolutely, @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7. I find it strange how some modern viewers try to find offence in everything, especially when there was no offence originally intended. In both cases, it can be argued that Dr Who and Bond were being assertive and perhaps a tad bossy, certainly not racist nor sexist.

    Agreed @MajorDSmythe. David Bradley is a wonderful actor and I for one would love to see them remake the missing episodes with Bradley as Hartnell. Yes, the same goes for Troughton, too. I believe it was Reece Shearsmith that played him in An Adventure in Space and Time opposite David Bradley playing Hartnell. I'm sure they could find a more suitable actor with more of a resemblance to Troughton than Shearsmith. Maybe his son, David Troughton, would be a better fit? Nevertheless, I can't understand why the Beeb don't try and replicate what they clumsily lost?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @bondsum, couldn't agree more, either for the two examples or for the culture of the day. A rule of thumb I use for all incidents that people get outraged over these days is this:

    Depending on what is said or done that one side gets upset about, to decide what side I fall on I ask myself how I would feel if the roles of the incident were reversed and the "victim" became the bringer of the offense. In most cases, you can see a double standard at play and discover just how trigger happy we are to jump on cases where women or minority groups are on the receiving end of something, but do not speak up when a white man is.
  • edited December 2017 Posts: 12,837
    All I saw were a couple of light hearted jokes about how we're not in the 60s anymore. Might have been out of character (I laughed, but I haven't seen any of the Hartnell episodes so I assumed there actually were lines like that), but is it really worth getting worked up over? It's not like that was the focus of the episode or anything. It was a handful of lines. Capaldi is probably a bigger fan than any of us and he was happy enough to go along with it.
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