'Anyone for a jelly baby ? ' - Doctor Who discussion thread.

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I really liked it, loved Missy. :)
  • I really enjoyed this final double episode; It really kept me on the edge most of the time. Great CGI, great performance from the actors, and I like what they did with the characters. The new Master is the greatest villain (and someone will have to explain me what is the issue of him being a girl.) It was a great surprise to finally discover its identity after all the teasing she did during this season. I'm usually not a fan of cybermen, but they were very well used in these episodes.

    The episodes of this season were all really well made, and I was very excited by each of them, even with a more serious and somehow hard to like doctor.

    To sum it up :
    vlcsnap-2014-11-09-19h48m35s60.png
  • Oh dear moments!
    Clara's eyes in Doctor Who credits, did the Moff really think we would buy her being the Doctor? Cheap trick.
    Brigadier as a Cyberman, totally in bad taste and what is said long standing character Brigadier doing now post episode.
    Tardis rising from cloud after The Doctor flew into it, Star Trek into Darkness anyone.
    The big deal of Danny pink switching his emotions off and becoming a threat, when every other Cyberman was doing nothing.
    Sorry for being negative though this is probably Moffats laziest script and that is saying something. I love Doctor Who and this was comedy hour.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 1,107
    Oh dear moments!
    Clara's eyes in Doctor Who credits, did the Moff really think we would buy her being the Doctor? Cheap trick.
    Brigadier as a Cyberman, totally in bad taste and what is said long standing character Brigadier doing now post episode.
    Tardis rising from cloud after The Doctor flew into it, Star Trek into Darkness anyone.
    The big deal of Danny pink switching his emotions off and becoming a threat, when every other Cyberman was doing nothing.
    Sorry for being negative though this is probably Moffats laziest script and that is saying something. I love Doctor Who and this was comedy hour.

    I liked the episode when I turn off my brain :D

    giphy.gif
  • Dalton12 wrote: »
    Oh dear moments!
    Clara's eyes in Doctor Who credits, did the Moff really think we would buy her being the Doctor? Cheap trick.
    Brigadier as a Cyberman, totally in bad taste and what is said long standing character Brigadier doing now post episode.
    Tardis rising from cloud after The Doctor flew into it, Star Trek into Darkness anyone.
    The big deal of Danny pink switching his emotions off and becoming a threat, when every other Cyberman was doing nothing.
    Sorry for being negative though this is probably Moffats laziest script and that is saying something. I love Doctor Who and this was comedy hour.

    I liked the episode when I turn off my brain :D

    giphy.gif

    Is that from when Kirks ID and EGO get split in two

    :)

    Enjoyed Dark Water, maybe my expectations are too high though really disappointed with Death in Heaven. Though Moff has previous lol The Wedding of River Song being a prime example of major let down. ;))
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 1,107
    Dalton12 wrote: »
    Oh dear moments!
    Clara's eyes in Doctor Who credits, did the Moff really think we would buy her being the Doctor? Cheap trick.
    Brigadier as a Cyberman, totally in bad taste and what is said long standing character Brigadier doing now post episode.
    Tardis rising from cloud after The Doctor flew into it, Star Trek into Darkness anyone.
    The big deal of Danny pink switching his emotions off and becoming a threat, when every other Cyberman was doing nothing.
    Sorry for being negative though this is probably Moffats laziest script and that is saying something. I love Doctor Who and this was comedy hour.

    I liked the episode when I turn off my brain :D

    giphy.gif

    Is that from when Kirks ID and EGO get split in two

    :)

    Yes it is a great episode :)

    Enjoyed Dark Water, maybe my expectations are too high though really disappointed with Death in Heaven. Though Moff has previous lol The Wedding of River Song being a prime example of major let down. ;))

    I agree on that.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 6,432
    Dalton12 wrote: »
    Dalton12 wrote: »
    Oh dear moments!
    Clara's eyes in Doctor Who credits, did the Moff really think we would buy her being the Doctor? Cheap trick.
    Brigadier as a Cyberman, totally in bad taste and what is said long standing character Brigadier doing now post episode.
    Tardis rising from cloud after The Doctor flew into it, Star Trek into Darkness anyone.
    The big deal of Danny pink switching his emotions off and becoming a threat, when every other Cyberman was doing nothing.
    Sorry for being negative though this is probably Moffats laziest script and that is saying something. I love Doctor Who and this was comedy hour.

    I liked the episode when I turn off my brain :D

    giphy.gif

    Is that from when Kirks ID and EGO get split in two

    :)

    Yes it is a great episode :)

    Enjoyed Dark Water, maybe my expectations are too high though really disappointed with Death in Heaven. Though Moff has previous lol The Wedding of River Song being a prime example of major let down. ;))

    I agree on that.

    Don't get me wrong I think Moffat has some brilliant ideas, i just don't think he knows on occasion how to develope them to a satisfying conclusion. Season five is my favourite season of new Who and one of my favourite of entire Who.
    This would not have saved the episode, though would have been interesting if the Doctor was so ensure of himself that he took the army the Master created for him. Though probably the most interesting scene was his outburst of anger on the Tardis console when he realised that Galifray was not at the coordinates the Master gave him.

  • @fire_and_ice I know what you mean about cringe worthy moments, I did think the bit where Danny made a big speech before flying off was a bit cringey. I cringed at the CGI too, I know it's a TV show but that skydiving bit was awful. If you don't have the budget to make it look good, maybe don't bother trying to do stuff like that. To be fair though I did think there were a lot less cringe worthy moments in this series than in previous ones though.

    I'm pretty glad Danny's dead. Thought he was really dull and annoying.

    Also, can someone explain The Master's plan to me?
    She wanted to give The Doctor an army, right? That was his plan. So why the fuck did she blow up the plane and leave him to die? The Doctor had to skydive down and catch The Tardis in mid air. Yeah she needed to escape so destroying the plane makes sense but for her plan to work she needed to keep The Doctor alive so leaving him there to die was pretty dumb.
    Great fun. Gomez as Missy is just PERFECT. Love her.
    I just didn't like the Cybermen. Very similar to Iron Man in design, and I hate their voices.
    Overall, a good season, my favourite since series 4.

    The cybermen did remind me of Iron Man a bit, with the weird blue glowy thing on their chests, and how they can fly now. Series 4 was Tennant's last one right? I thought was pretty crap. Felt like a retread of stuff that they'd done before.

    Not sure what the best series is. I think it's probably the first one. The CGI was shit and some episodes were terrible but Billie Piper and Christopher Eccleston were both brilliant, most of the stories were good (like the episode with Rose's dad, and the one with the gas mask kids) and not too complicated and the writing (the characters, dialouge, all that) was really good.

    I think the big drop off in quality for the show was the end of the third series. I liked series 2, and I liked series 3 but the ending of series 3 was so cringey and crap and I didn't understand it at all.

    I don't think the show ever really recovered after that until Moffat took over. Like I said, I wasn't a fan of series 4. I can't stand Catherine Tate, there were some crap ideas (killer sat navs, walking blobs of fat) and it just had gotten boring for me. And the last episode where he died was again, such a cringey ending. Felt sorry for David Tennant, he's a great actor and he was great in the role but he got saddled with some crap scripts towards the end of his run.

    Series 5 was great, I liked that. Felt really fresh and new. I hated series 6 because it just really confused me. Series 7 was good and I've enjoyed series 8 too.

    I think what's good about Steven Moffat is that he's good at making the show feel fresh every season. That's something Russell T Davies didn't do. But I think that he makes things too complicated and drags out storylines for ages and it means the payoff is often a let down. Russel T Davies was great at the start (like I said, I think the first series is the best one), he's a fantastic writer but the show seemed to disappear up it's own arse after a while to the point where it was cringe worthy and he seemed to run out of ideas after the first three seasons.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2014 Posts: 13,978
    I didn't mind the freefall, I was expecting the Doctor to have the doors of the TARDIS open, allowing him to fall into the swimming pool, just like Eleven did in The Eleventh Hour. And other than the Missy/Master thing, something else I didn't like was seeing the Cybermen flying around ('MayDayDiVicenzo is spoy on with the Iron Man comment). The Cybermen are my favourite from the shows rogues gallery, but Dark Water/Death In Heaven aren't a high point for them.

    On reflection, despite a lacklustre opening and closing, series 8 has been the best since series 5 (which itself was the best since series 26, my favourite series, from the classic run).
  • Posts: 12,526
    Well i for one thoroughly enjoyed the final episode. My only thought overall is this? Two episodes, involving 2 of the Dr's biggest enemies now have goodies. I speak ofcourse of the Daleks and Cybermen!

    :-?
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I finally saw it!! Had to reboot my computer twice.
    LOVED it! I really enjoyed this wholes series. I have nothing to nitpick about this episode. I thoroughly enjoyed it ... but
    it had some real sadness. I so thought Danny and Clara would end up together. It was very well done, though.
  • @fire_and_ice I know what you mean about cringe worthy moments, I did think the bit where Danny made a big speech before flying off was a bit cringey. I cringed at the CGI too, I know it's a TV show but that skydiving bit was awful. If you don't have the budget to make it look good, maybe don't bother trying to do stuff like that. To be fair though I did think there were a lot less cringe worthy moments in this series than in previous ones though.

    I'm pretty glad Danny's dead. Thought he was really dull and annoying.

    Also, can someone explain The Master's plan to me?
    She wanted to give The Doctor an army, right? That was his plan. So why the fuck did she blow up the plane and leave him to die? The Doctor had to skydive down and catch The Tardis in mid air. Yeah she needed to escape so destroying the plane makes sense but for her plan to work she needed to keep The Doctor alive so leaving him there to die was pretty dumb.
    Great fun. Gomez as Missy is just PERFECT. Love her.
    I just didn't like the Cybermen. Very similar to Iron Man in design, and I hate their voices.
    Overall, a good season, my favourite since series 4.

    The cybermen did remind me of Iron Man a bit, with the weird blue glowy thing on their chests, and how they can fly now. Series 4 was Tennant's last one right? I thought was pretty crap. Felt like a retread of stuff that they'd done before.

    Not sure what the best series is. I think it's probably the first one. The CGI was shit and some episodes were terrible but Billie Piper and Christopher Eccleston were both brilliant, most of the stories were good (like the episode with Rose's dad, and the one with the gas mask kids) and not too complicated and the writing (the characters, dialouge, all that) was really good.

    I think the big drop off in quality for the show was the end of the third series. I liked series 2, and I liked series 3 but the ending of series 3 was so cringey and crap and I didn't understand it at all.

    I don't think the show ever really recovered after that until Moffat took over. Like I said, I wasn't a fan of series 4. I can't stand Catherine Tate, there were some crap ideas (killer sat navs, walking blobs of fat) and it just had gotten boring for me. And the last episode where he died was again, such a cringey ending. Felt sorry for David Tennant, he's a great actor and he was great in the role but he got saddled with some crap scripts towards the end of his run.

    Series 5 was great, I liked that. Felt really fresh and new. I hated series 6 because it just really confused me. Series 7 was good and I've enjoyed series 8 too.

    I think what's good about Steven Moffat is that he's good at making the show feel fresh every season. That's something Russell T Davies didn't do. But I think that he makes things too complicated and drags out storylines for ages and it means the payoff is often a let down. Russel T Davies was great at the start (like I said, I think the first series is the best one), he's a fantastic writer but the show seemed to disappear up it's own arse after a while to the point where it was cringe worthy and he seemed to run out of ideas after the first three seasons.

    Think problem i have with the show is I am not emotionally invested, the whole Clara Danny situation felt forced and superficial. Danny and Doctors dislike was based on fresh air, the whole saluting bit from Danny was bad! surprised the Doctor did not just hit him.
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 5,993
    Having been on vacation with limited internet access, I haven't seen the last two episodes yet. Thus, I won't comment on them. What I will do, however, is to share with you a strange coincidence concerning the series which I recently noticed (can't say I'm the first one, though, somebody might have thought of that before since last year).

    Picture this : a time-traveller with a curious taste for old-fashioned clothes (tweed jacket, bow tie and strange hat) during one of his travels meets a young woman named Amy. After sharing an adventure together, said woman accompanies him in his travels. Sounds familiar, doesn't it ? Except I'm not talking about the Doctor and Amy Pond, but about H.G. Wells and Amy Robbins, in the very good movie "Time After Time", where both fought Jack the Ripper in 20th century San Francisco.

    Now, picture this : A white-haired time-traveller, during one of his journeys, meets a young woman named Clara. After sharing an adventure, said woman accompanies him in his travels. Sounds familiar ? I bet it does. Except that even if I'm talking about a doctor, I'm not talking about the Doctor, and that Clara is not the Impossible Girl. No, I'm talking about Doc Emmett Brown and Clara Clayton, from "Back To The Future Part III".

    Now, the icing on the cake is that both characters were played by the same actress, Mary Steenburgen. Maybe Steven Moffat is a fan of hers, I don't know. Still, quite a coincidence, isn't it ?

    And it's not the only coincidence in the world of the series. Pop quiz: apart from the fact that they have played companions of the classic series, what links Jackie Lane, Janet Fielding and Wendy Padbury ?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-11-12/we-tried-to-trick-doctor-who-fans-into-thinking-missy-was-the-rani-reveals-steven-moffat

    Yes, that's it, rub it in why don't you. Got anything that's got for curing disappointment?
  • Posts: 12,526
    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-11-12/we-tried-to-trick-doctor-who-fans-into-thinking-missy-was-the-rani-reveals-steven-moffat

    Yes, that's it, rub it in why don't you. Got anything that's got for curing disappointment?

    The sad thing is she would have been brilliant as the Rani!!!
  • http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-11-12/we-tried-to-trick-doctor-who-fans-into-thinking-missy-was-the-rani-reveals-steven-moffat

    Yes, that's it, rub it in why don't you. Got anything that's got for curing disappointment?

    Think I missed the part where Moff was trying to trick us

    :-/
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    To be honest, I thought it was " The Rani" until the truth came out.
    ( and I thought I was being so clever :)) )
  • DrGorner wrote: »
    To be honest, I thought it was " The Rani" until the truth came out.
    ( and I thought I was being so clever :)) )

    Ha ha crossed my mind though only in that she looked like Kate O'Mara

    :) Problem with Moff a lot of the time over course of his tenure, his red herrings may have been better ideas :))
  • Posts: 5,993
    To whet your appetite until Christmas :



    Don't forget to donate to Children in Need if you live in Great Britain.
  • RogueAgent wrote: »
    http://www.radiotimes.com/news/2014-11-12/we-tried-to-trick-doctor-who-fans-into-thinking-missy-was-the-rani-reveals-steven-moffat

    Yes, that's it, rub it in why don't you. Got anything that's got for curing disappointment?

    The sad thing is she would have been brilliant as the Rani!!!

    Well for one thing the story was written for The Master. Her and The Doctor being mates when they were kids is one of the things behind the story, just switching her out for The Rani wouldn't work (unless he was mates with The Rani as a child as well? Idk, haven't seen any of the episodes with her in).

    And nobody knows who The Rani is. I'd never heard of her until you mentioned her. Bringing back a villain who only featured twice back in the 80s (when the show was at it's least popular and when it ended up getting cancelled) wouldn't have had the same resonance as bringing back The Master, who is his arch enemy and is familiar to fans of the old series and the new one. Imagine if instead of her being The Master, she'd said "well I couldn't keep calling myself The Rani could I?". For a small portion of viewers it would've been an "ohhh, cool" moment. For the majority it would have been "who? Hang on, I'd better google it- oh, she was in two Colin Baker episodes. Okay...". If they did bring back The Rani they'd have to make it so it was an introduction for new audiences, as well as the return of an old character, like they did with The Daleks, Cybermen and The Master before. And that, along with the childhood friend angle, would mean the whole episode would have to be vastly rewritten. The episode was written for The Master.

    You seem to think that The Rani could have taken The Master's place in the story easily. So if the two characters are as interchangable as you're suggesting then why not just make The Master a woman instead of bringing back the female knock off version from the 80s?

    I'll say again: why, if you've already had loads of different interpretations of the character and it's been established that he can change into anything, can The Master (or The Doctor) not be a girl? I don't want to be one of those idiots who tosses the word around to the point where it loses all meaning but it does strike me as sexist tbh, that you're willing to accept all these different versions of the character but a woman is a step too far. It's not like there's any source material to stick to or anything. And no before some genius asks me how would I feel if they made James Bond a girl, it's not the same at all.

    My only complaint with Michelle Gomez being The Master is that they didn't really explain what happened to John Simm. He's a brilliant actor, the show was lucky to have him, and I think he deserved at least one more appearance to bring an end to his version of the character, to show him regenerate into Michelle Gomez. They could have done another short film thing, like they did with Paul Mcgann, showing how he died.
  • Posts: 5,993
    Alright, I've seen "Dark Water" (the reason why I saw it only now was because I was on vacation in a place without internet access, and I had to buy it on iTunes instead of seeing it live on Filmon). A very good episode all around with quite a few twists (the volcano scene, notably), and good acting by all (especially Michelle Gomez. BTW, nice reference to "The Thick of It". Tomorrow, I'll watch the finale. And give my thoughts on the series proper.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2014 Posts: 13,978
    If The Rani isn't as well known, then that's all the more reason to bring her back and make the modern audience aware of her existence. Of course, this doesn't mean that The Rani still can't be brought back, afterall, nobody would expect Moff to bring The Rani back now. Before I move on, it's not sexist, but it feels purposely done. When there's a ready made Time Lady, and Moffat chooses to change the sex of The Master, it not only smacks of being done to provoke a reaction, but to get rid of the 'Time Lords can't change sex' excuse if/when an actress is cast as The Doctor.

    As for Simm, he was only slightly less pants as The Master than Eric Roberts *cue violent flashback*. So i'm glad that there has been no mention of his Master since. For what it's worth, my favourite Masters are Ainley, Delgado & McQueen in that order.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I was lucky to be given a box full of old Dr Who DVDs, love the Jon Pertwee sets, so for me the master is Roger Delgado.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2014 Posts: 13,978
    Pertwee is one of my favourite Doctors, his was like a cross between The Doctor & James Bond.

    6d44856625e80ab9d67b1bf3b0514026.jpg

    I still need only two more DVDs before I have the Pertwee era complete; The Ambassadors Of Death & Invasion Of The Dinosaurs
  • edited November 2014 Posts: 6,432
    If The Rani isn't as well known, then that's all the more reason to bring her back make the modern audience aware of her existence. Of course, this doesn't mean that The Rani still can't be brought back, afterall, nobody would expect Moff to bring The Rani back now. Before I move it, it's not sexist, but it feels purposely done. When there's a ready made Time Lady, and Moffat chooses to change the sex of The Master, it not only smacks of being done to provoke a reaction, but to get rid of the 'Time Lords can't change sex' excuse if/when an actress is cast as The Doctor.

    As for Simm, he was only slightly less pants as The Master than Eric Roberts *cue violent flashback*. So i'm glad that there has been no mention of his Master since. For what it's worth, my favourite Masters are Ainley, Delgado & McQueen in that order.

    Agreed was not a fan of Simm, did not recognise the Master in his portrayal. As for Jacobi, he was excellent in the short time he was the master. Moffats seems to preoccupied with getting reaction then getting his head down and writing well self contained stories. Think Moffat jumps the shark too much IMO and the characters seem to address the audience rather than each other at times. Maybe its been like that for sometime, though maybe I am just noticing it more.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I don't have a collection just this load of DVD a mate got from a charity shop
    No covers or boxes, they came in a CD holder case box. Still they have a selection
    From all the Doctors. So I can happily relive my childhood, luckily now the Horror
    Channel is showing some classic old episodes, so I can get my daily fix. :))
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited November 2014 Posts: 13,978
    Classic Who is also being shown on UK Drama:

    http://drama.uktv.co.uk/shows/doctor-who/

    I don't have a complete collection either. I've sold off all my 4th Doctor & 5th Doctor DVD's. I have the 7th Doctor era complete, same with the 6th Doctor, I have all the currently released 2nd Doctor stories, and 5 of the 1st Doctor stories.

    I have to watch what I say about Moff, i've complained and yet, in the past, I have defended JNT. :-$
  • Don't get me wrong Moffat has got it in his locker, the evidence is there from past episodes. Maybe four seasons is where any head writer runs out of ideas. Without a doubt Moffat has made some of the best episodes of New Who.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I have enjoyed the new who from Eccleston on, but I don't know what it is about
    Capaldi's Dr, that takes me back and makes me feel like that little ten year old
    Boy , I was first watching Jon Pertwee. :)
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