The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • Posts: 725
    dalton wrote: »
    YOU CANT STUMP THE TRUMP

    Jake Tapper managed to stump him today.

    Trump's interview, where he said he didn't know enough about David Duke to distance himself from him could be the first blunder (for want of a much better term) that Trump has made that may actually stick.

    It's a shame that it's Cruz and Rubio that are his chief rivals. Three terrible candidates in the running for the GOP nomination while we have a very good candidate in John Kasich who could actually do the job he's running for. Marco Rubio, who only goes to work forty percent of the time in the Senate. If he continued that as president, he'd be only show up to work for 584 of 1,460 days of his first tenure.

    Agree on Kasich. He us the best qualified of the bunch and the most electable in the general, which means he hasn't a prayer at the nomination. If Trump takes some big hits though and the primaries get split up between Trump, Cruz and Rubio, I bet the establishment types pull in Romney

  • Posts: 1,631
    smitty wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    YOU CANT STUMP THE TRUMP

    Jake Tapper managed to stump him today.

    Trump's interview, where he said he didn't know enough about David Duke to distance himself from him could be the first blunder (for want of a much better term) that Trump has made that may actually stick.

    It's a shame that it's Cruz and Rubio that are his chief rivals. Three terrible candidates in the running for the GOP nomination while we have a very good candidate in John Kasich who could actually do the job he's running for. Marco Rubio, who only goes to work forty percent of the time in the Senate. If he continued that as president, he'd be only show up to work for 584 of 1,460 days of his first tenure.

    Agree on Kasich. He us the best qualified of the bunch and the most electable in the general, which means he hasn't a prayer at the nomination. If Trump takes some big hits though and the primaries get split up between Trump, Cruz and Rubio, I bet the establishment types pull in Romney

    They shouldn't pull in Romney. His time has already passed, and he hasn't put in any of the work in this cycle.

    But, to go with this idea, if they were going to just pull anyone out of a hat and give them the nomination if the convention is brokered and they can't decide between the three stooges currently leading the contest, then I'd suggest Nikki Haley of South Carolina. She could eat into Clinton's advantages in some of the key voting demographics, and would present a much better tone to the country than Trump/Cruz/Rubio.
  • Posts: 725
    I hate that it's such an incredible and entertaining contest, because it's entertaining for a lot of bad reasons. I've never seen anything like it. The world is in such a dangerous state, the next Pres. Is going to be so important and the country is so divided. My biggest fear is over all of the various terrorist elements starting to get small tactical nuclear weapons in the not very distant future. Lord help us. I really fear for the world my kids will face.
  • Posts: 6,601
    smitty wrote: »
    I hate that it's such an incredible and entertaining contest, because it's entertaining for a lot of bad reasons. I've never seen anything like it. The world is in such a dangerous state, the next Pres. Is going to be so important and the country is so divided. My biggest fear is over all of the various terrorist elements starting to get small tactical nuclear weapons in the not very distant future. Lord help us. I really fear for the world my kids will face.

    This and therefore people need to look beyond the entertainment. In politics there is almost always only the choice between two evils. And even if there is someone, who means well for the sake of his country he still is only a marionette. His strings are pulled by
    those much more influentual. Those, who gave their money for him/her to win.

  • Posts: 613
    spoiler alert no matter who wins things wont change that much
  • Posts: 6,601
    Folks just have to make sure, it won't get worse.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Germanlady wrote: »
    smitty wrote: »
    I hate that it's such an incredible and entertaining contest, because it's entertaining for a lot of bad reasons. I've never seen anything like it. The world is in such a dangerous state, the next Pres. Is going to be so important and the country is so divided. My biggest fear is over all of the various terrorist elements starting to get small tactical nuclear weapons in the not very distant future. Lord help us. I really fear for the world my kids will face.

    This and therefore people need to look beyond the entertainment. In politics there is almost always only the choice between two evils. And even if there is someone, who means well for the sake of his country he still is only a marionette. His strings are pulled by
    those much more influentual. Those, who gave their money for him/her to win
    Exactly. This is why I look for backbone in the individual. A sense of principled character rather than calculation.

    I have seen what Obama goes through when making these decisions, and how he has tried to resist the war machine that owns the US Government over the past 7 years, sometimes successfully and sometimes not successfully.

    I've always believed that we would have bigger problems once he is gone, no matter who is in charge.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited March 2016 Posts: 9,020
    Looks like Trump will triumph on Super Tuesday.

    Choose an emoticon you find fitting:

    :)

    >:P

    :))

    :-O

    :-&

    X_X
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 725
    @bondjames, I find it interesting that you like both Obama and Trump as they are very unlike on some major issues. Is it because you think Trump if elected will revert to his progressive social views from not long ago, and is just saying stuff to get elected which they all do? His views on Muslim and Hispanic immigration is 180 degrees from Obama and seems to be the driver of his conservative following. He is certainly unlike any candidate I have ever seen in my awareness of presidential politics.

    Also some press keep claiming the Rep. big shots are praying for a brokered convention, and hope to bring Romney back. Think it will happen?
  • Posts: 110
    smitty wrote: »
    @bondjames, I find it interesting that you like both Obama and Trump as they are very unlike on some major issues. Is it because you think Trump if elected will revert to his progressive social views from not long ago, and is just saying stuff to get elected which they all do? His views on Muslim and Hispanic immigration is 180 degrees from Obama and seems to be the driver of his conservative following. He is certainly unlike any candidate I have ever seen in my awareness of presidential politics.

    Also some press keep claiming the Rep. big shots are praying for a brokered convention, and hope to bring Romney back. Think it will happen?

    Just to clarify something smitty, he has opposite views on illegalHispanic immigration, not Hispanic immigration in general. A lot of people like to keep that "I" word out of the conversation.

    Anyway, ironic about his views regarding terrorism and immigration since those are the two conservative issues that most of the establishment conservatives seem to shy away from. That sums everything up in a nut shell as to why he's winning. And those who say he can't win the general election I think are selling him very short right now.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I thought it interesting on a political talk show last night, a couple of old Republican
    Election organisers both stated that, conservative Republican don't want Trump.
    In fact don't want him to the extent that many of them will be voting for Clinton !
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @smitty, I think Trump is misunderstood. He has a quality that makes those who follow him forgive his flaws, and follow him on principle, because of who he is. That is similar to candidates like Clinton, Obama and Reagan. Even Bush Jr. So his political skills impress me for one.

    Secondly I like the fact that he is calling it like it is on on the issues that matter. Sure, he is exaggerating, but he has a Republican primary to win, and that's not easy without a religious base, unless one targets the issues that matter to that constituency, e.g. border security, immigration, defence etc.
    The US border should be secured in my view. Whether it's done by a wall or other means, it's important that it be done, especially on the southern tip and definitely when it comes to illegal immigration. There is waste in defence spending. It should be curtailed. There are too many unnecessary interventions in foreign lands given the US budget position. That should be stopped. ISIL must be stopped first rather than Assad.
    Trump has mentioned all of these issues first. The other candidates have only jumped on that bandwagon afterwards and actually the other Republican candidates are not as honest about foreign interventions.
    So he is similar to Obama in that he seems to have the pulse of the Republican voter the way Obama had the Democratic voter some time back. He is energizing new independent voters into the process, like Obama, and also like Sanders.

    I read between the lines of his comments. The man is a New Yorker. He's lived there all his life. You can't be racist living in New York. It's as multicultural as it comes. He's just tough and no nonsense and that's how New Yorkers are. That's how New Jerseyers are too. He's like Christie. Rough, but tells it like it is.

    Of all the candidates, he's the least in the pocket of donors (apart from Bernie). That's critical to me. You can see it in his ability to speak honestly and controversially. Others can't do that because they are bought and paid for. So, it's not because he's like Obama on the issues necessarily. It's because I appreciate his ability to say what he wants to say and be his own man. That's leadership, and I think the US needs that more than anything right now.

    Moreover, yes, as you note, he is more centre right than far right on the issues. So of Republican candidates with a shot, he will be able to move to the centre, because his following is more of a movement/personality based and not so much issue based.

    I don't necessarily want him to win. I need to first see him mature into a better debater, and be clearer on the issues going forward.
    He also needs to survive a vicious attack coming his way over the next two to three weeks. I'm not sure if all of those things are possible.
    If he can't learn to speak more clearly and in a more detailed fashion on the issues, then he will lose in the general imho, and that is how it should be.
    If he can mature as a candidate, then he will be unstoppable.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2016 Posts: 17,801
    "It's in your nature to destroy yourselves."
    - Uncle Bob, 1991
  • Posts: 110
    bondjames wrote: »
    Exactly. This is why I look for backbone in the individual. A sense of principled character rather than calculation.

    I have seen what Obama goes through when making these decisions, and how he has tried to resist the war machine that owns the US Government over the past 7 years, sometimes successfully and sometimes not successfully.

    I've always believed that we would have bigger problems once he is gone, no matter who is in charge.

    I agree with you 100% Bondjames. I think a lot of people mistake Trump's aggressiveness as a threat, when it's just a matter of a person finally having some backbone to say what he wants to say instead of just pulling up to special interests. And again, aside from his fiscal policies, and his views on illegal immigration and terrorism, he's actually pretty liberal and most other issues. I think people need to start really digging into what he's about instead of listening to the hysteria that the media is putting out there.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 725
    Trump is a huge anomaly. A lot of establishment conservatives greatly fear him because they think he is a closet social liberal and will revert to those positions if elected. Mean while the left hates him because of his immigration stand. I think it will be a Trump/Clinton contest, but lots of crazy stuff can still happen. Their debates will be epic.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited March 2016 Posts: 4,585
    smitty wrote: »
    Trump is a huge anomaly. A lot of establishment conservatives greatly fear him because they think he is a closet social liberal and will revert to those positions if elected. Mean while the left hates him because of his immigration stand. I think it will be a Trump/Clinton contest, but lots of crazy stuff can still happen. Their debates will be epic.

    No, we loooooove Trump. He's the gift that keeps on giving.

    It's a 99% certainty that we will have our first female President next January.
    bondjames wrote: »
    Exactly. This is why I look for backbone in the individual. A sense of principled character rather than calculation.

    I have seen what Obama goes through when making these decisions, and how he has tried to resist the war machine that owns the US Government over the past 7 years, sometimes successfully and sometimes not successfully.

    I've always believed that we would have bigger problems once he is gone, no matter who is in charge.

    I agree with you 100% Bondjames. I think a lot of people mistake Trump's aggressiveness as a threat, when it's just a matter of a person finally having some backbone to say what he wants to say instead of just pulling up to special interests. And again, aside from his fiscal policies, and his views on illegal immigration and terrorism, he's actually pretty liberal and most other issues. I think people need to start really digging into what he's about instead of listening to the hysteria that the media is putting out there.

    The media isn't putting things into his mouth. He's saying these things (Mexicans are rapists) all on his own. He's a sexist, racist pig. Pure and simple.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    The wild card may be the African American voter. They are proving to be quite decisive already in this election.

    So far at least, the democratic contingent is firmly with Hillary and I believe there are more African American registered democrats than republicans.

    They turned out in massive quantities to elect Obama.

    If Trump is the nominee he will have a bit of work to do in order to peel her support off. It may be an insurmountable challenge. If they are not energized to turn out in a general election like they were 4 and 8 yrs ago then bets may be off.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 725
    bondjames wrote: »
    @smitty, I think Trump is misunderstood. He has a quality that makes those who follow him forgive his flaws, and follow him on principle, because of who he is. That is similar to candidates like Clinton, Obama and Reagan. Even Bush Jr. So his political skills impress me for one.

    Secondly I like the fact that he is calling it like it is on on the issues that matter. Sure, he is exaggerating, but he has a Republican primary to win, and that's not easy without a religious base, unless one targets the issues that matter to that constituency, e.g. border security, immigration, defence etc.
    The US border should be secured in my view. Whether it's done by a wall or other means, it's important that it be done, especially on the southern tip and definitely when it comes to illegal immigration. There is waste in defence spending. It should be curtailed. There are too many unnecessary interventions in foreign lands given the US budget position. That should be stopped. ISIL must be stopped first rather than Assad.
    Trump has mentioned all of these issues first. The other candidates have only jumped on that bandwagon afterwards and actually the other Republican candidates are not as honest about foreign interventions.
    So he is similar to Obama in that he seems to have the pulse of the Republican party the way Obama had the Democratic party some time back. He is energizing new independent voters into the process, like Obama, and also like Sanders to a lesser extent.

    I read between the lines of his comments. The man is a New Yorker. He's lived there all his life. You can't be racist living in New York. It's as multicultural as it comes. He's just tough and no nonsense and that's how New Yorkers are. That's how New Jerseyers are too. He's like Christie. Rough, but tells it like it is.

    Of all the candidates, he's the least in the pocket of donors (apart from Bernie). That's critical to me. You can see it in his ability to speak honestly and controversially. Others can't do that because they are bought and paid for. So, it's not because he's like Obama on the issues necessarily. It's because I appreciate his ability to say what he wants to say and be his own man. That's leadership, and I think the US needs that more than anything right now.

    Moreover, yes, as you note, he is more centre right than far right on the issues. So of Republican candidates with a shot, he will be able to move to the centre, because his following is more of a movement/personality based and not so much issue based.

    I don't necessarily want him to win. I need to first see him mature into a better debater, and be clearer on the issues going forward.
    He also needs to survive a vicious attack coming his way over the next two to three weeks. I'm not sure if all of those things are possible.
    If he can't learn to speak more clearly and in a more detailed fashion on the issues, then he will lose in the general imho, and that is how it should be.
    If he can mature as a candidate, then he will be unstoppable.

    I too am conflicted about him. I think he is smart and cunning as all hell and agree with your points. He is saying some "stuff" to get nominated and then will move more to the center for the general election which for non Americans watching this election is very typical in US politics. He must curb his temperament as that is the big knock on him. And like you, I'm watching closely to see how he handles himself as the battle moves on. He'll need to moderate his immigration stand enough to appeal to moderates without alienating his current backers. But I know Democrats and moderates that are going to vote for him, which is seriously telling about his his deep appeal. I'd bet that he will get more disciplined about the personality stuff and more articulate about the issues as the battle goes on. He is one hell of a complicated guy. So far he has been consistently underestimated. Incredible battle ahead.

    I'm watching the returns tonight and Trump is doing well. Clinton is carrying red states, which are not going to go Democratic in the general election which is a problem for her. If Bernie takes some big blue states tonight, he stays viable. She needed to put him away tonight. She may not do it. I really dislike Cruz, he is the most extreme, but very smart. He's won TX and OK and they come with big delegate counts. If Rubio loses FL, he's toast.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited March 2016 Posts: 4,585
    smitty wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @smitty, I think Trump is misunderstood. He has a quality that makes those who follow him forgive his flaws, and follow him on principle, because of who he is. That is similar to candidates like Clinton, Obama and Reagan. Even Bush Jr. So his political skills impress me for one.

    Secondly I like the fact that he is calling it like it is on on the issues that matter. Sure, he is exaggerating, but he has a Republican primary to win, and that's not easy without a religious base, unless one targets the issues that matter to that constituency, e.g. border security, immigration, defence etc.
    The US border should be secured in my view. Whether it's done by a wall or other means, it's important that it be done, especially on the southern tip and definitely when it comes to illegal immigration. There is waste in defence spending. It should be curtailed. There are too many unnecessary interventions in foreign lands given the US budget position. That should be stopped. ISIL must be stopped first rather than Assad.
    Trump has mentioned all of these issues first. The other candidates have only jumped on that bandwagon afterwards and actually the other Republican candidates are not as honest about foreign interventions.
    So he is similar to Obama in that he seems to have the pulse of the Republican party the way Obama had the Democratic party some time back. He is energizing new independent voters into the process, like Obama, and also like Sanders to a lesser extent.

    I read between the lines of his comments. The man is a New Yorker. He's lived there all his life. You can't be racist living in New York. It's as multicultural as it comes. He's just tough and no nonsense and that's how New Yorkers are. That's how New Jerseyers are too. He's like Christie. Rough, but tells it like it is.

    Of all the candidates, he's the least in the pocket of donors (apart from Bernie). That's critical to me. You can see it in his ability to speak honestly and controversially. Others can't do that because they are bought and paid for. So, it's not because he's like Obama on the issues necessarily. It's because I appreciate his ability to say what he wants to say and be his own man. That's leadership, and I think the US needs that more than anything right now.

    Moreover, yes, as you note, he is more centre right than far right on the issues. So of Republican candidates with a shot, he will be able to move to the centre, because his following is more of a movement/personality based and not so much issue based.

    I don't necessarily want him to win. I need to first see him mature into a better debater, and be clearer on the issues going forward.
    He also needs to survive a vicious attack coming his way over the next two to three weeks. I'm not sure if all of those things are possible.
    If he can't learn to speak more clearly and in a more detailed fashion on the issues, then he will lose in the general imho, and that is how it should be.
    If he can mature as a candidate, then he will be unstoppable.

    I too am conflicted about him. I think he is smart and cunning as all hell and agree with your points. He is saying some "stuff" to get nominated and then will move more to the center for the general election which for non Americans watching this election is very typical in US politics. He must curb his temperament as that is the big knock on him. And like you, I'm watching closely to see how he handles himself as the battle moves on. He'll need to moderate his immigration stand enough to appeal to moderates without alienating his current backers. But I know Democrats and moderates that are going to vote for him, which is seriously telling about his his deep appeal. I'd bet that he will get more disciplined about the personality stuff and more articulate about the issues as the battle goes on. He is one hell of a complicated guy. So far he has been consistently underestimated. Incredible battle ahead.

    I'm watching the returns tonight and Trump is doing well. Clinton is carrying red states, which are not going to go Democratic in the general election which is a problem for her. If Bernie takes some big blue states tonight, he stays viable. She needed to put him away tonight. She may not do it.

    How so? All she has to do is carry the states Obama did. That won't be too difficult. And she will likely take others that he didn't. make no mistake: the only way Trump wins is if Sanders supporters pout and stay home. Not gonna happen. Level-Americans are NOT going to vote for Trump. She will destroy him in each and every debate.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 725
    The red states in the south that she is carrying tonight almost all regularly go Republican in the general election. She needs to show she can win in the Democratic blue states that is where the general election will be won or lost for the next Democratic candidate if she is going to nail down the nomination. There is also a practice by the party to grant larger delegate counts to those states that go with the party in the general election. THe primary candidates who win in their party's primary states that their party carried in 2012, reap bigger delegate counts than those counts that they can win in the states the opposite party carried in 2012. BUT, it is complicated as the Dem's grant proportional delegates. The Republicans don't. Think this is a country wide party decision, but maybe I'm wrong and it's state by state, but I don't think so. Another poster may know for sure.

    OT: :Trumps defense of Planned Parenthood just now, live tonight is why I like him. No other Republican has the guts to say this and it is why the Republican po pahs don't trust him. They think he is a closet liberal. PP is Satan to the right.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    TripAces wrote: »
    She will destroy him in each and every debate.
    That is possible. It will be difficult to beat Hillary in a debate. She's very good at them. He needs to learn to get into more policy details and not speak in generalities. Not sure if he can do that.
  • Posts: 725
    bondjames wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    She will destroy him in each and every debate.
    That is possible. It will be difficult to beat Hillary in a debate. She's very good at them. He needs to learn to get into more policy details and not speak in generalities. Not sure if he can do that.

    That is key, along with keeping control of his temperament. If he can do both, he can neutralize her debating advantage in the debates as that is her strong suit. She is shrill in public speeches, but is impressive in debate. It will be hard for him to hold his own. The debates will be "must see tv."
  • Posts: 1,631
    The US is in trouble regardless of where this election goes, unless a miracle occurs and we end up with a Sanders vs. Kasich general election.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 725
    Ain't gonna happen. The US likes moderates, or candidates who are good at faking moderation in the general election. Sanders is too left, and his age would hurt him. He'd be about 76 when he took office. That's way to old. The Presidency is a killer job. Reagan, the last older President developed dementia in his final years as Pres. I like Kasich but he'll probably drop out right after Ohio. He hasn't a chance at the nomination.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,631
    smitty wrote: »
    Ain't gonna happen. The US likes moderates, or candidates who are good at faking moderation in the general election. Sanders is too left, and his age would hurt him. He'd be about 76 when he took office. That's way to old. The Presidency is a killer job. Reagan, the last older President developed dementia in his final years as Pres. I like Kasich but he'll probably drop out right after Ohio. He hasn't a chance at the nomination.

    I'm well aware that it isn't going to happen, hence it being deemed a "miracle".

    Age is one of the lesser factors for Sanders. Clinton isn't exactly a spring chicken either, and will turn 70 in her first year in office.

    It's Sander's lack of foreign policy expertise is his biggest flaw. As many problems as we have in this country that results in his ideas having appeal, the fact that the world is a very dangerous place right now is the biggest opposition facing Sanders, in my view.

    EDIT: I don't know if anyone's watching the discussions on CNN right now, but it's absolutely disgusting to see. Huge applause for Van Jones for his passionate argument in the face of CNN's resident Trump supporter.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 725
    Yeah, the screaming. Wow.

    I agree, Hillary is also too old. So is Trump. The job is so stressful, it badly ages Presidents 20 years their junior. It looks like Clinton may carry Mass. tonight. That's a biggie. The press keeps ignoring the Super Delegates which is a huge advantage for Clinton.
  • Posts: 1,631
    CNN hasn't been ignoring the super delegates. They've included them, giving her a 700+ to about a 180-ish lead over Sanders.

    And, by the way, the Super Delegate system is about the most un-American thing we have going in the election process, right up there with Citizens United.
  • Posts: 725
    OK. Didn't know that. Yes, I agree about the SD's. It give the inside players an unfair advantage.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,631
    I sincerely hope that Sanders can rebound and get within striking distance of Clinton's vote totals. I would love to see her stand up there and accept the nomination after it took Super Delegates to put her over the top. That could be the Democrats' version of the Trump phenomenon, as both would result in the destruction of the party leadership.

    What is very clear at this point, after this election, the chairs of the respective parties (Wasserman-Schultz on the Democrat side and Preibus on the Republicans) need to be fired. Not allowed to resign, but fired.

    EDIT: Good lord, CNN's coverage of Super Tuesday is just disgraceful. Jake Tapper's interview with Marco Rubio was painful to watch. He kept hammering home to Rubio that he didn't think he had any path to the nomination since he hasn't won anything yet. You could almost interpret it as him begging Rubio to get out of the race.

    Van Jones is their only saving grace tonight.
  • Posts: 725
    What the Dem's badly need it new blood. 70 and 75 year old candidates is totally nuts.
This discussion has been closed.