The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Yes and the article I posted also gives some background. Thanks, @Beatles.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited November 2016 Posts: 6,387
    Germanlady wrote: »
    What Clinton will do, will Effekt Europe and the Rest of the world as mich as the US. Europe will be the battleground. How naive to think, it wont. Just Shows, how Little some here actually know.
    Just voted straight party!
    Cannot even vote for someone who is under investigation by the FBI.
    No third party candidate will win obviously and it's down to Trump who said some sexual things towards women behind closed doors joking around or a woman who is being investigated by the FBI..

    Not a tough decision. Funny thing is most of the anti Trump comments are from non Americans lolol

    Congratulations on casting your vote for a manifestly unqualified candidate.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    And the KKK officially endorses Trump. Trump's campaign staff say how horrible this is ... as of yet, Donald Trump has not said so himself. (We hope that will change and be more sincere than his other "disavows" to extreme racist groups)
  • And the KKK officially endorses Trump. Trump's campaign staff say how horrible this is ... as of yet, Donald Trump has not said so himself. (We hope that will change and be more sincere than his other "disavows" to extreme racist groups)
    And the Black Panthers support Clinton. It's not fair to either candidate to say that these extremist groups that support the candidate somehow represent what the views of the candidate actually are.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Just putting the news out there. It has happened. And Trump has never denounced these kinds of "support" as strongly as he should - in my opinion and I think lots of other people agree.

    The issue being that Trump has gone along with a lot of hatred (towards how many? Jews, for sure, and many other ethnic or religious groups). He has egged on bad feelings, violence, and racism - maybe at times subtly, but sometimes not so subtly. And all along, not fully condemning things like this. That is on him. Not saying his views are the same but his reactions have been lame. That is the issue, regarding the hate groups and Trump, and it's not good.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480


    and 2 comments made about this article ... (I have not read many, just a few)

    1) in part said: We need a criminal investigation of the FBI with the possibility some people will do jail time for interfering in an election. I am a Republican so I am not concerned about Hillary Clinton but we have the FBI deferring news and perhaps investigation of Donald Trump while rushing to make unsubstantiated statements about the other candidate. This politicization of the FBI needs to be stopped right now.


    2) in part another said: That is the problem...caring more about satisfying GOP members of Congress than about the dangers of attempting to influence (or the perception of attempting to influence) the election.

    Republicans should have honored policy that prohibits influencing elections - their only reason for demanding an investigation has been political...don't forget, the GOP lost 22 MILLION emails back in 2007, so they've done the very same thing they've been claiming Hillary did.
  • Also to those of you who are wanting there to be some sort of ties of Trump to Putin/Russia...you do realize there's a hypocrisy with claiming this and denying any wrongdoings of Clinton's email scandal.

    Whether the manner in which information was leaked was right or wrong, I'd rather have information released than it hide in the shadows. Things like Hillary being given debate questions in advance of the debates need to be put in the spotlight. Otherwise the integrity of the political system might as well be deemed "rigged."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-debate-question_us_5817a3b7e4b064e1b4b4367a

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/31/hacked-emails-suggest-trump-was-right-after-all-clinton-got-previews-of-some-debate-questions/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/hillary-clinton-donna-brazile-cnn-political-commentator-spring-debate-question-wikileaks-john-a7389886.html
  • JamesStock wrote: »
    Also to those of you who are wanting there to be some sort of ties of Trump to Putin/Russia...you do realize there's a hypocrisy with claiming this and denying any wrongdoings of Clinton's email scandal.

    Whether the manner in which information was leaked was right or wrong, I'd rather have information released than it hide in the shadows. Things like the email scandals or Hillary being given debate questions in advance of the debates need to be put in the spotlight. Otherwise the integrity of the political system might as well be deemed "rigged." If you don't want the skeletons coming out of the closet, DON'T HAVE SKELETONS!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    They are two different incidences/issues, and I'm all for full disclosure on both. The timing of FBI statements is rightfully controversial. Personally I do feel it was a mistake, even wrong, to put out that statement from the FBI so close to the election - there is nothing found yet. It should have been held until a) something was found, or b) after Election Day. Just my opinion. But yes, I want both fully investigated.

    The sordid and gross things being said about the other parties are not civil or conducive to good discourse. So it's a very ugly election campaign year, yes. Worst in recent history by far.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    And the FBI is the FBI - they always hide things in the shadows, and I feel often that is a necessity. What they disclose to the public during investigations needs careful timing. But I do want results disclosed, of course.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    delete. We have enough to discuss these next few days. :)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Not a fan of Assange myself. It seemed like he started out his mission to uncloset skeletons out of a concern for the world and its people, like Snowden, but now, I'm not so sure. Now Assange feels like an uber egotistical entertainer. He makes the news with his online posts that market his e-mail releases.

    "BIG CLINTON E-MAILS ABOUT THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT COMING TOMORROW"

    Now I feel he's doing what he's doing just for the kick of it, because of how it gets him in the spotlight. Destroying someone's privacy shouldn't be enjoyed by the hacker as much as Assange enjoys doing it. Snowden was having a crisis at the idea of doing what he was doing, while Assange treats it like recreation. I just don't respect that.

    All I can say is that the Trump campaign, and any campaign or department in the US government should count themselves blessed that they don't have the same hacks Clinton does, because you would find the same or worse in their internal communications.

    Politics is dirty, and I don't know why some of the Clinton e-mails where her aides are insulting candidates or discussing what minorities to target shock people. This is our world.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I agree, Brady.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Hypocrisy is flying high in here @JamesStock

    About Assange, never liked that guy but I don't have to.
    He did the people a great service and if he is doing it now for the kicks then be it.
    He is held prisoner since years.
  • Posts: 6,601
    We need more brave people like Assange and Snowden to bring light into the shadows of the lie league. If you are an influential person and doing your job properly, there is nothing to fear. If it brings out unduly stuff, that hurts - nothing wrong with that either.

    I do hope, A LOT more will be brought to the light of the day, so people finally see a bit of that light.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited November 2016 Posts: 28,694
    It's about privacy, and a respect for it. Not having that respect is why we're at where we are now, surveyed like prisoners every waking day of our lives by a government paranoid that we're going to kick off at any one moment.

    I can agree with Snowden to a point, because I know the turmoil he faced and how his insides turned at the thought of undergoing what he knew would be seen as treason, changing his life irreparably forever. Assange, however, seems to think it's a game.

    And that's where the men differ. One knew the choice would ruin him, but he did it anyway in pursuit of a mission he saw as justified, while the other seems to have lost his way, and now wants to entertain the masses with his disrespect for the privacy of others.

    And that's where the issue gets complicated. These whistleblowers act out to preserve the sanctity of privacy in the same breath that they tarnish and cheapen it. Assange exploits his leaks for headlines in papers, treating his e-mail releases as cookies and cakes for the masses.

    That's not to say their acts are all right or all wrong, as no act of any sort is fully on either extreme, but it makes you wonder where it ends. How far will this go until the day where we're all monitored by cameras in our home's walls or where our e-mails and private communications are as available to the world like books in a bookstore, if those are still around by the time this kicks off.

    I seriously doubt that the people that are so eager to support these whistleblowers would ever dare to follow in Snowden or Assange's footsteps, and I have further doubt that they'd be cheering it on if it was their private communications being made the center of sensational newscasts.
  • Posts: 315
    Enter Addison Russell, Hillary supporter and Cubs SS. What do you with the bases loaded in the World Series? Same thing Hillary is doing. Boom!

    addison-russell-slam-110116-getty-ftrjpg_1bv9s8uw8y5vc1nh6gxip8kjl8.jpg?t=577850992
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,425
    If you think having the American President under the thumb of the Russian dictator is a good idea, go ahead and vote for Trump. Otherwise...........

    I have to say I think this is one area where Trump may be right. Are the Russians really our deadliest enemies? Hardly. In the post Cold War world we have taken Russia's acquiescence for granted and pushed them around.

    There are a litany of Western foreign policy provocations that explain Russia's current antagonism towards the West: expansion of the EU; expansion of NATO; Kosovo; George W's missile defence shield; Western interference in Ukraine; the Iraq War; Western interference in and support for Islamist extremists in Syria and related attempts to overthrow the Syrian government.

    We have acted aggressively and often illegally on a range of foreign policy areas. It's no wonder Russia has given up on seeing the West as any kind of partner and has instead started throwing it's weight around a bit more.

    We need to look at outselves a lot harder and think more about how we are perceived by the rest of the world. For many people the West just stands for double standards and hypocrisy.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited November 2016 Posts: 4,589
    JamesStock wrote: »
    Also to those of you who are wanting there to be some sort of ties of Trump to Putin/Russia...you do realize there's a hypocrisy with claiming this and denying any wrongdoings of Clinton's email scandal.

    Whether the manner in which information was leaked was right or wrong, I'd rather have information released than it hide in the shadows. Things like Hillary being given debate questions in advance of the debates need to be put in the spotlight. Otherwise the integrity of the political system might as well be deemed "rigged."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/clinton-debate-question_us_5817a3b7e4b064e1b4b4367a

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/10/31/hacked-emails-suggest-trump-was-right-after-all-clinton-got-previews-of-some-debate-questions/

    http://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/hillary-clinton-donna-brazile-cnn-political-commentator-spring-debate-question-wikileaks-john-a7389886.html

    1. The DNC's handling of its primaries is an in-house issue and is not any business of Republicans.
    2. The Trump-Russia investigation isn't complete. There are indications, however, that Manafort has connections to Putin. That investigation is also on going.
    3. The comparison of the emails and the Russia connection isn't about the cases themselves, but rather what info Comey wanted to leak. The letter regarding "new emails" was vague and premature. There's a good chance that Comey sounded alarm bells over nothing. I am not saying that Comey should have alerted the media about any investigations of Trump and Putin, but it's clear that Comey has had an agenda the past few months.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    Posts: 1,003
    The way I see it...

    "FORMER TRUMP ASSOCIATE HAD TIES TO RUSSIANS!!"

    "Hillary Clinton being investigated by the FBI."

    LOL..

    Don't get me wrong if it was trump who had the ties to Russian mafia then oh I am all for that being a scandal but a former campaign manager? So not trump directly...

    Yet Hillary Clinton's email scandal is all her. It wasn't an associate it was all her.

    There was a video of Clinton's staff in court all pleading the 5th... Why would they plead the 5th over yoga and wedding planning?

    I am not pro Clinton or pro trump.

    I am looking at everything with an open mind. This entire election is a joke!


  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    What the FBI is probably looking for in the new batch of emails is evidence of 'intent'. That is what stopped them from laying charges previously. They noted that there were violations, but could not discern intent.

    The wikileaks revelations do suggest there was an intent to deceive (regarding POTUS involvement on server and potential email 'dump') but that is probably not admissable as it was stolen information. It's not conclusive either and is subject to interpretation.

    One issue here is that the Justice Dept is essentially compromised (Lynch has effectively recused herself). The FBI was also reportedly facing an internal revolt from investigators who were not happy about how the investigation was handled, and so there could have eventually been leaks which could have been more damaging. Comey was between a rock and a hard place, based on his sworn testimony to Congress in September to look at any new evidence and based on the fact that if a leak occurred after the election about the new emails he would have been seen to have covered it up. He is not allowed, under the Hatch Act, to make a partisan statement about the evidence. He can report it to Congress however, and should have, which he did.

    The Hatch Act thing isn't going anywhere. Obama basically kiboshed that when Josh Earnest (love that name) said he vouches for Comey's integrity and character, and didn't criticize him.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,589
    bondjames wrote: »
    What the FBI is probably looking for in the new batch of emails is evidence of 'intent'. That is what stopped them from laying charges previously. They noted that there were violations, but could not discern intent.

    The wikileaks revelations do suggest there was an intent to deceive (regarding POTUS involvement on server and potential email 'dump') but that is probably not admissable as it was stolen information. It's not conclusive either and is subject to interpretation.

    One issue here is that the Justice Dept is essentially compromised (Lynch has effectively recused herself). The FBI was also reportedly facing an internal revolt from investigators who were not happy about how the investigation was handled, and so there could have eventually been leaks which could have been more damaging. Comey was between a rock and a hard place, based on his sworn testimony to Congress in September to look at any new evidence and based on the fact that if a leak occurred after the election about the new emails he would have been seen to have covered it up. He is not allowed, under the Hatch Act, to make a partisan statement about the evidence. He can report it to Congress however, and should have, which he did.

    The Hatch Act thing isn't going anywhere. Obama basically kiboshed that when Josh Earnest (love that name) said he vouches for Comey's integrity and character, and didn't criticize him.

    I disagree. He shouldn't have. Because there was nothing at all to report (yet).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Even Alan Dershowitz told Megan Kelly that it should have been reported, but he said that Comey should have given an explanatory statement to the public not to interpret the investigation in any way. Eg. it was not the reporting that was the problem per se, but rather the vague nature of his statement.

    Keep in mind also that all emails & devices were supposed to have been handed over to the FBI already. So if they found another device (and they did) then the onus is to disclose imho, because this is a matter of public record due to the previous Congressional testimony.

    Moreover, as mentioned, the Justice Dept. is compromised, due to Clinton's statement that she would reappoint Lynch if she becomes president, due to the secret back of plane meeting with Bill ostensibly about family prior to the conclusion of the prior investigation, and also because of Obama's active campaigning on behalf of Clinton and his potential involvement in the server scenario (he is reported to have communicated on it under a pseudonym) which could possibly be a violation of Federal Records Retention laws. It's really one big mess all round and the possible internal leaks from the FBI would have been terribly damaging.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Getafix wrote: »
    If you think having the American President under the thumb of the Russian dictator is a good idea, go ahead and vote for Trump. Otherwise...........

    I have to say I think this is one area where Trump may be right. Are the Russians really our deadliest enemies? Hardly. In the post Cold War world we have taken Russia's acquiescence for granted and pushed them around.

    There are a litany of Western foreign policy provocations that explain Russia's current antagonism towards the West: expansion of the EU; expansion of NATO; Kosovo; George W's missile defence shield; Western interference in Ukraine; the Iraq War; Western interference in and support for Islamist extremists in Syria and related attempts to overthrow the Syrian government.

    We have acted aggressively and often illegally on a range of foreign policy areas. It's no wonder Russia has given up on seeing the West as any kind of partner and has instead started throwing it's weight around a bit more.

    We need to look at outselves a lot harder and think more about how we are perceived by the rest of the world. For many people the West just stands for double standards and hypocrisy.

    You got that right, @Getafix.
  • And of course, the East stands for peace & love, harmony and all things bright & beautiful. Oh yeah.

    Like all too many of us, I'll be glad when this election from the Bizarro Universe is over. At this point no one's willing to be convinced, we've all made our minds up and are just busting each other's chops over our choices. As far as I'm concerned, Hillary's guilty of being a bad manager of her emails...of being a career politician...and of having married Bill Clinton. All the rest is just noise & spin. Meanwhile, Donald Trump is guilty of stiffing his employees many times over the decades, not paying his fair share of the tax burden, being a sexual predator and boasting about it, playing footsie with the enemy of the nation he's hoping to lead...and fomenting racial and religious hatred. For starters. Your mileage may vary...but I don't care any more. I'm just gonna sit over here, tune up my guitar & sing a few songs.

    Right now, the song I'm singing is by the new Nobel Prize winning poet, Robert Zimmerman aka Bob Dylan. Please everybody, join me in Verses 6, 8 & 9 of "With God On Our Side"...

    I've learned to hate the Russians
    All through my whole life
    If another war comes
    It's them we must fight
    To hate them and fear them
    To run and to hide
    And accept it all bravely
    With God on my side

    Through many a dark hour
    I've been thinkin' about this
    That Jesus Christ was
    Betrayed by a kiss
    But I can't think for you
    You'll have to decide
    Whether Judas Iscariot
    Had God on his side.

    So now as I'm leavin'
    I'm weary as Hell
    The confusion I'm feelin'
    Ain't no tongue can tell
    The words fill my head
    And fall to the floor
    If God's on our side
    He'll stop the next war

    Amen. May Saints John, Paul, George and Ringo be with us through the next week.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Getafix wrote: »
    If you think having the American President under the thumb of the Russian dictator is a good idea, go ahead and vote for Trump. Otherwise...........

    I have to say I think this is one area where Trump may be right. Are the Russians really our deadliest enemies? Hardly. In the post Cold War world we have taken Russia's acquiescence for granted and pushed them around.

    There are a litany of Western foreign policy provocations that explain Russia's current antagonism towards the West: expansion of the EU; expansion of NATO; Kosovo; George W's missile defence shield; Western interference in Ukraine; the Iraq War; Western interference in and support for Islamist extremists in Syria and related attempts to overthrow the Syrian government.

    We have acted aggressively and often illegally on a range of foreign policy areas. It's no wonder Russia has given up on seeing the West as any kind of partner and has instead started throwing it's weight around a bit more.

    We need to look at outselves a lot harder and think more about how we are perceived by the rest of the world. For many people the West just stands for double standards and hypocrisy.



    That is all true. However it does not justify the actions of the Russian government today. What they have done in the Ukraine and Syria should be condemned regardless of who has commited the most sins in a historical context. Russia is showing more and more imperialistic semi fascist tendencies. It is inauspicious to say the least.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    ???
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    ?!?!?!
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