The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,566
    @dalton, always good to hear from you. As I have stated a few times in the past, I wish you and the Responsible wing of the Republican Party the best of luck in taking back the GOP from the fanatics that have taken it over this time around.

    @4EverBonded, @OHMSS69, @chrisisall & the rest: great work & keep going, we're almost at the finish line. Time for one last spurt of effort.

    @bondjames: It looks like Reuters (a somewhat more reputable news outlet than Faux News) is reporting that an anti-Hillary faction within the FBI is responsible for much of the releases you've taken such pleasure in during the last week, and that Director Comey has largely lost control of their activities, using smear tactics to advance their hopes of their preferred candidate. Let me repeat: J. Edgar Hoover (no stranger to blackmailing the powerful by keeping their secrets judiciously secret) is surely spinning in his grave.

    Many of the links I've been posting in this thread have been with the intent of saying: Look! THIS is what you've chosen to side with -- the racism, the sexism, the hatred and bigotry, the egotistical bullying. Are you really sure this is who you want to ally yourself with? Please, please, it's not too late...pull the lever for a better America, not an angrier, more hateful one.

    "Lay down your weary tune, lay down
    Lay down the song you strum
    And rest yourself 'neath the strength of strings
    No voice can hope to hum

    Struck by the sounds before the sun
    I knew the night had gone
    The morning breeze like a bugle blew
    Against the drum of dawn
    Lay down your weary tune, lay down
    Lay down the song you strum
    And rest yourself 'neath the strength of strings
    No voice can hope to hum

    The ocean wild like an organ played
    The seaweed wove its strands
    The crashing waves like cymbals clashed
    Against the rocks and the sand
    Lay down your weary tune, lay down
    Lay down the song you strum
    And rest yourself 'neath the strength of strings
    No voice can hope to hum

    I stood unwound beneath the skies
    And clouds unbound by laws
    The crying rain like a trumpet sang
    And asked for no applause
    Lay down your weary tune, lay down
    Lay down the song you strum
    And rest yourself 'neath the strength of strings
    No voice can hope to hum

    The last of leaves fell from the trees
    And clung to a new love's breast
    The branches bare like a banjo moan
    To the winds that listen the best

    I gazed down in the river's mirror
    And watched its winding strum
    The water smooth ran like a hymn
    And like a harp did hum
    Lay down your weary tune, lay down
    Lay down the song you strum
    And rest yourself 'neath the strength of strings
    No voice can hope to hum"

    Here's the Byrds' version of the song.
  • Posts: 6,601
    What it takes to take her down. Doesn't matter. SHE doesn't care either to get her ways. Trumps bad traits are mostly in the light of the day. Her ain't hiding them. Clintons au contraire, are better hidden and some mistake it for - she is a nice Lady with nothing to hide. Sooo wrong. There are so many skeletts in her closet, but they were killed with the get go from the elites, so they will do their utmost to keep them hidden. Everything that comes out before the election is a big plus and hopefully turns people off her. One can only wish.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,566
    Germanlady wrote: »
    What it takes to take her down. Doesn't matter. SHE doesn't care either to get her ways. Trumps bad traits are mostly in the light of the day. Her ain't hiding them. Clintons au contraire, are better hidden and some mistake it for - she is a nice Lady with nothing to hide. Sooo wrong. There are so many skeletts in her closet, but they were killed with the get go from the elites, so they will do their utmost to keep them hidden. Everything that comes out before the election is a big plus and hopefully turns people off her. One can only wish.

    "Nobody feels any pain
    Tonight as I stand inside the rain
    Ev'rybody knows
    That Baby's got new clothes
    But lately I see her ribbons and her bows
    Have fallen from her curls.
    She takes just like a woman, yes, she does
    She makes love just like a woman, yes, she does
    And she aches just like a woman
    But she breaks just like a little girl.

    Queen Mary, she's my friend
    Yes, I believe I'll go see her again
    Nobody has to guess
    That Baby can't be blessed
    Till she sees finally that she's like all the rest
    With her fog, her amphetamine and her pearls.
    She takes just like a woman, yes, she does
    She makes love just like a woman, yes, she does
    And she aches just like a woman
    But she breaks just like a little girl.

    It was raining from the first
    And I was dying there of thirst
    So I came in here
    And your long-time curse hurts
    But what's worse
    Is this pain in here
    I can't stay in here
    Ain't it clear that --

    I just can't fit
    Yes, I believe it's time for us to quit
    When we meet again
    Introduced as friends
    Please don't let on that you knew me when
    I was hungry and it was your world.
    Ah, you fake just like a woman, yes, you do
    You make love just like a woman, yes, you do
    Then you ache just like a woman
    But you break just like a little girl."
  • Posts: 6,601
    Are you expecting me to read all this? Really? Just say, what you mean and be done with it ;) But I know what you would say, so - no hurry. We are very few here, who stand their ground againt Clinton. But in the end - its you Americans, who have provided us with two terribly cloices. So - don't blame others for ripping those choices apart. The whole thing is ridiculous and dangerous.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote: »
    What it takes to take her down. Doesn't matter. SHE doesn't care either to get her ways. Trumps bad traits are mostly in the light of the day. Her ain't hiding them. Clintons au contraire, are better hidden and some mistake it for - she is a nice Lady with nothing to hide. Sooo wrong. There are so many skeletts in her closet, but they were killed with the get go from the elites, so they will do their utmost to keep them hidden. Everything that comes out before the election is a big plus and hopefully turns people off her. One can only wish.

    Why don't we just throw all our laws to the wind, then? Forget having elections, let's just make our candidates run in a deadly gladiator style obstacle course where the last one alive is elected. Vice presidents are chosen by a game of Russian Roulette. We can hang any politicians that make one mistake by their necks from the highest bridge of the city of their choosing, where all the world can see them.

    A lack of standards is exactly what's wrong with this world, and it's only getting worse. We're making Orwell's fiction reality.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 6,601
    You are right. But what makes you think, ANY of your higher politicians go by ANY law? They don't They either bend them to their will or they do it in secret, without telling the public. Give the people Bread and Games, as they say, Pokemon and all the "nice" technology, that literally poisons our mind, so they can do whatever they want, without us noticing it.

    What you guys don't seem to understand is, that YOUR standards, fine as they are, are NOT the standards of your leaders - or ours here. Merkel is the same shit. No difference. I guess, many NEED to believe, there is still SOME law intact, that there is still SOME humanity in your leaders. Well - sadly, its not. To change that, we have to

    1) understand, what's going on
    2) leave the boxes, they have put us into
    3) tell them, your don't want Monsato, you don't want the poison on your fields, in your food
    4) tell them, you don't want that pipeline against which the natives .- thousands of them, protest so bravely.
    5) Tell them to stop making their blood money in killing us - fast or slowly. All the same.
    6) Stop buying your gen manipulated food, which kills you.

    We ALL have to do that. Otherwise nothing will change.

  • Posts: 7,507
    A lot of the dirt on Hillary stems from an on going negative campaign lasting almost twenty years aimed at her and her husband. A lot of it is pure speculation, some of it is outright lies. The dedication behind trying to demolish her is quite revealing. How many times did they reopen the investigation into the Benghazi non 'case' before they conceded there were nothing of importance to be found there? Seven or eight times? In the end it doesn't matter whether the attacks against her carry any weight behind them or not. The conceived notion that she is corrupt sticks.

    I am not saying she is an angel. She has commited errors and I do disagree with her on certain topics, in particular her blind, uncompromised support of Israel. But I do believe the common notion of her being crooked and deceitful is greatly exaggerated.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 6,601
    She hasn't done her most evil yet, but she will. Vote for her and you might live to see it. We all will and like I have said so often, its more us in Europe, who will pay the price.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote: »
    You are right. But what makes you think, ANY of your higher politicians go by ANY law? They don't They either bend them to their will or they do it in secret, without telling the public. Give the people Bread and Games, as they say, Pokemon and all the "nice" technology, that literally poisons our mind, so they can do whatever they want, without us noticing it.

    What you guys don't seem to understand is, that YOUR standards, fine as they are, are NOT the standards of your leaders - or ours here. Merkel is the same shit. No difference. I guess, many NEED to believe, there is still SOME law intact, that there is still SOME humanity in your leaders. Well - sadly, its not. To change that, we have to

    1) understand, what's going on
    2) leave the boxes, they have put us into
    3) tell them, your don't want Monsato, you don't want the poison on your fields, in your food
    4) tell them, you don't want that pipeline against which the natives .- thousands of them, protest so bravely.
    5) Tell them to stop making their blood money in killing us - fast or slowly. All the same.
    6) Stop buying your gen manipulated food, which kills you.

    We ALL have to do that. Otherwise nothing will change.

    You once again take it upon yourself to generalize everyone who takes a government position as a crook and demonize them. It's one of the stupidest contentions I've ever heard, but I hear it all the time from the same people. "They're all assholes, they don't fix anything."

    By acting as you always do you only create more of a divide between us and the people we need to work with to make our world a stronger place, the Bernie Sanders of the world who aren't crooks and who became politicians to *gasp* actually help out.

    Vilify everyone in a group through generalization, and you only compound the problems. People like you in the United States have generalized and demonized the entire population of working policemen, which has driven to innocent and good officers with families getting shot and murdered in cold blood while parked in their squad cars by assholes who believe all of them are racists and they're doing a public service.

    This needs to end.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Of course, there is generalization to make a point as complex as this. Among 10 politicians or policemen or whatever there certainly are some better ones, who are not corrupt and mean well. But high ranking politicians won't make it unless they let themselves being corrupted. Or why do you think, Bernie didn't make it? He was not in the system enough. Not corrupt enough. Those, who want to do good, have no chance. Yet. Its on us to change that. Take off your tinted glasses. The world is not as you believe. Its much more complex and much perfider. This is why we are in such a mess.

    Its a mtter of conscience, that wakes up, that can make a difference.

    BTW - what do you have to say about the points I made? Is that all bs in your eyes. Not true?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Of course, there is generalization to make a point as complex as this. Among 10 politicians or policemen or whatever there certainly are some better ones, who are not corrupt and mean well. But high ranking politicians won't make it unless they let themselves being corrupted. Or why do you think, Bernie didn't make it? He was not in the system enough. Not corrupt enough. Those, who want to do good, have no chance. Yet. Its on us to change that. Take off your tinted glasses. The world is not as you believe. Its much more complex and much perfider. This is why we are in such a mess.

    Its a mtter of conscience, that wakes up, that can make a difference.

    BTW - what do you have to say about the points I made? Is that all bs in your eyes. Not true?

    Generalization is never, ever okay, as mathematically improbable as it is morally barren. Bernie did quite alright from where I'm looking, by the way, and he'll be remembered by history for it.

    As to your points? I think they're soaked in melodrama and don't help spark the change we'd need to make. You're so quick to call everyone the devil and vilify those whose lives or experiences you have no knowledge of. Humans are just as complex as you say this issue is, but you want to treat them as rather simple cases where your only response is, "they're all crooked."
  • Posts: 6,601
    Yup. They pretty much are. But I see, there is just the wish to contradict me instead of trying to see behind the points, I make. Your loss, not mine. Lets hope, you don't learn them the hard way. A lot more "facts held in secret" will come into the open in the next time, which is good and partly a present from the whistleblowers. But not alone. More and more people - in the know - speak up, because they are sick and tired of the lies.

    BTW - I don't say, the good ones don't exist. They just don't have a chance as long as those few, whose single goal is power and money, rule the world. Your world as much as mine.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Yup. They pretty much are. But I see, there is just the wish to contradict me instead of trying to see behind the points, I make. Your loss, not mine. Lets hope, you don't learn them the hard way. A lot more "facts held in secret" will come into the open in the next time, which is good and partly a present from the whistleblowers. But not alone. More and more people - in the know - speak up, because they are sick and tired of the lies.

    BTW - I don't say, the good ones don't exist. They just don't have a chance as long as those few, whose single goal is power and money, rule the world. Your world as much as mine.
    This is why I need to keep reminding myself not to waste my time. Your generalizations are disturbing, a key factor of why this election has gone the way it has.
  • Posts: 11,425
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/one-final-election-plea-on-the-behalf-of-us-ideals/2016/11/03/4975a1c4-a1dd-11e6-a44d-cc2898cfab06_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-f:homepage/story

    ... which says in part:
    It is almost beyond belief that Americans should bless and normalize Trump’s appeal. Normalize vindictiveness and prejudice. Normalize bragging about sexual assault and the objectification of women. Normalize conspiracy theories and the abandonment of reason. Normalize contempt for the vulnerable, including disabled people and refugees fleeing oppression. Normalize a political tone that dehumanizes opponents and excuses violence. Normalize an appeal to white identity in a nation where racial discord and conflict are always close to the surface. Normalize every shouted epithet, every cruel ethnic and religious stereotype, every act of bullying in the cause of American “greatness.”


    This is a key point for me. What has become "normalized", almost "acceptable."

    Yes very depressing. It's the Bigot Strikes Back.

    For years racists and bigots have been marginalised and 'repressed'. Now, in defence of their human rights they're fighting back and Trump is their cheerleader. Nigel Farage played a similar role in the UK - dog whistle politics to re-legitimise bigotry.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Getafix, Trump is applauded for speaking his mind, no matter what depraved or intellectually bankrupt things fly out of his big mouth. You're right: bigotry re-legitimized.
  • I don't care anymore. Within a few weeks I completely lost interest in these elections. The fact that this happens with a well-educated guy like me, should worry Hillary Clinton upcoming Tuesday :-(. Trump's biggest advantage is basically Obama's advantage too: He manages to flock his particular kind of sheep to thee polls massively. The only difference is, Trump's sheep are fear-mongering, white, working-class, less educated, slightly xenophobic people who are fingerpointing much more and who lack the ability to say "Do not ask what YOUR GOVERNMENT can do for you, ask what YOU can do for your country". The less educated parts of our society are now way more energized in ways that's more comparable to the interbellum times. Those people in essence need help from the government...always. If left alone, they sooner or later can protest our democratic systems to death.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Gustav_Graves, if these people knew what it was like to work in a government where you need to depend on each other across the aisle to make change (and realize how hard that is to do these days) maybe they'd understand. But being uneducated they are gullible and will accept as truth anything a person of authority says, even if that person is Donald Trump. If you notice, some of his supporters aren't smart enough to interpret his words and actions on their own, so they verbatim repeat everything he says like dolls whose strings you pull to hear them speak.

    This is exactly why in Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 books are the first things to be burnt. When you don't educate yourself and don't make the effort to grow as an informed part of society you can be easily led by others to do or say anything they want because you lack the necessary critical thinking to realize when you've been had. Thanks to the advent of cell phones and social networking the government haven't needed to resort to book burning, because people make themselves more imbecilic all on their own.

    We can take the easy road and blame politicians for everything, but how about all the damage we've done? When do we take responsibility and educate ourselves about where we've misstepped?
  • Posts: 6,601

    We can take the easy road and blame politicians for everything, but how about all the damage we've done? When do we take responsibility and educate ourselves about where we've misstepped?

    Exactly. Like I said. Sorry, if you said something I can agree to. I know, its disturbing. ;)

    To change that, we have to

    1) understand, what's going on

  • @Gustav_Graves, if these people knew what it was like to work in a government where you need to depend on each other across the aisle to make change (and realize how hard that is to do these days) maybe they'd understand. But being uneducated they are gullible and will accept as truth anything a person of authority says, even if that person is Donald Trump. If you notice, some of his supporters aren't smart enough to interpret his words and actions on their own, so they verbatim repeat everything he says like dolls whose strings you pull to hear them speak.

    This is exactly why in Ray Bradbury's Fahrenheit 451 books are the first things to be burnt. When you don't educate yourself and don't make the effort to grow as an informed part of society you can be easily led by others to do or say anything they want because you lack the necessary critical thinking to realize when you've been had. Thanks to the advent of cell phones and social networking the government haven't needed to resort to book burning, because people make themselves more imbecilic all on their own.

    We can take the easy road and blame politicians for everything, but how about all the damage we've done? When do we take responsibility and educate ourselves about where we've misstepped?

    That's my message too my lovely, dear @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 :-). Hence why I will always, strongly uphold JFK's message:
    "My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country."

    And people should take that really more literally. Examples:
    --> DO NOT sign a mortgage contract, if you really haven't enough money for it. Go RENTING instead (like I probably will do all my life)
    --> SAVE MONEY until you can really buy a phone simlock free, instead of LEASING a phone by a 3-year subscription/payment plan
    --> SEARCH for a job outside your state...or even outside your country.

    Sadly, this self-empowerment doesn't work this way with less educated people. They lack the ability to think big, grand or large. They are used too much to a situation that has been unchanged for decades. And sadly, that situation won't come back. It's no good to blame either Trump or Clinton for that.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    For all those getting overly concerned here over the past few weeks, I honestly think you have nothing to worry about, because even though Trump has the 'big mo', I don't see how he can win the electoral map. The entire DEM crew is going to be out campaigning hard for her this weekend (Obama actually has more campaign stops than Hillary because he's more popular than her) which should help them hold the map.

    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs, I saw that Reuters article yesterday. As I've said before, in the heat of a high stakes multi $-bn election campaign nothing is what it seems and deception and lies are everywhere. There is obviously tension between the FBI & The Justice Dept. Who should one side with? Well, until I hear about Jim Comey sitting in the back of a plane with Melania Trump, I'm more inclined to side with the FBI on this, particularly in light of the wikileaks information which has already exposed collusion by the Clinton campaign and the media (Donna Brazille has been dismissed as CNN contributor for giving the campaign town hall questions in advance).
    ---

    A Hillary win, although still likely, is going to be quite anti-climactic. As I've said all along, it will mire the country in years of investigations and recriminations. She continues to be secretive and deceptive, and that's just not on for me.

    I firmly believe that the US is not a dynastic nation. That it historically doesn't vote based on 'fear' but rather on 'hope'. Optimism normally prevails. It's a country that traditionally takes chances and risks. One with an independent spirit in its DNA. In the recent past, I can only recall one exception and that was in 2004, when fear of terrorism gave Bush (the previous dynastic candidate) a 2nd term. This may be another one of those years. Where fear of the unknown wins. I hope not.

    Optimism and risk taking means Trump. He in my view represents the American spirit and the independent frontier success and audacity of the American dream. The same audacity that elected a first term senator and previous community organizer on the back of one exceptional speech and a superb election campaign. There are enough checks and balances in the system to temper any extreme aspects of his platform, and the man is far more measured than his electoral rhetoric and bluster will have you believe.

    Although I can't still see a path to victory for him, it's been fun and he will do alright no matter what happens on Tuesday. I appreciate the effort, energy, enthusiasm and hard work he has put into his campaign, and respect how he has been able to motivate and energize a large portion of the electorate, including myself. Moreover, it's been great entertainment. Thank you Donald!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    In my home state. I have no words, really. This is just one incident but this kind of thing has definitely mushroomed across my country during the past year. Beyond sickening.


    So sure let's make that a chorus of: Thank you, Donald. For all that you have sown this election year. You have been a busy sower, that is a fact.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited November 2016 Posts: 12,480
    delete. Deleted because you all know this anyway. I was stating the obvious.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    And just now this:
    possible attacks? Hmmm.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Cvi1McQWgAA4zT7.jpg
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I'm glad people have been entertained this election year. I'm envious, because it's made me want to slit my wrists more than a few times seeing how we treat each other, and nothing more. This election year has only driven us apart more, thanks to the bad tactics used on both sides, so why that's a cause for celebration I have no idea.

    I will say that though it's easy for some to vilify Hillary to the max, acting like she needs to be exorcised for a demon bursting from inside her, she's nothing compared to the leaders we've have not even in the past century, but the past twenty years. It would be of use to hit the history books, really stalling over the careers of men like Woodrow Wilson and Lyndon Johnson for starters to see what it really means to have poor leadership and classlessness. Their actions go beyond mere screw-ups and more readily classify themselves as acts downright vindictive and cruel. The Sedition Acts and the Vietnam War, two of our greatest exports from this past century. Like it was yesterday...
  • Germanlady wrote: »
    Are you expecting me to read all this? Really? Just say, what you mean and be done with it ;)


    Germanlady wrote: »
    She hasn't done her most evil yet, but she will.

    Once again: you must tell us where you got your crystal ball.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,566
    bondjames wrote: »

    Optimism and risk taking means Trump. He in my view represents the American spirit and the independent frontier success and audacity of the American dream.

    Now you're just being absurd. Your quote above has got to be the single stupidest thing anyone has said on this entire thread. Here's a nice response from this year's Nobel Prize for Literature winner:

    "There must be some way out of here" said the joker to the thief
    "There's too much confusion", I can't get no relief
    Businessmen, they drink my wine, plowmen dig my earth
    None of them along the line know what any of it is worth.

    "No reason to get excited", the thief he kindly spoke
    "There are many here among us who feel that life is but a joke
    But you and I, we've been through that, and this is not our fate
    So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late".

    All along the watchtower, princes kept the view
    While all the women came and went, and their footservants, too.
    Outside in the distance a wildcat did growl
    Two riders were approaching, and the wind began to howl...

    Or for those of you like @GL who can't be bothered to read, here's Jimi Hendrix' version of the song: Bob Dylan's "All Along the Watchtower"

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Manufactured hatred for Hillary has made even the stupidest things Trump says seem better. "People have no grasp of what they do." - Thulsa Doom
    :))
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    Cvi1McQWgAA4zT7.jpg

    Thanks for that @chris. Arnold is a better American than some of the folks we've had posting on this thread.
This discussion has been closed.