The Next American President Thread (2016)

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Comments

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Guys, I'm not the one spewing hate and fear throughout this thread.

    I think Trump is the better choice and I've said so. He's far from perfect, but I prefer what he offers to the alternative by far. That's all. I hope enough Americans feel the same way as I do, but if they don't that's ok. There's always 4 years from now.
  • Posts: 6,601
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Are you expecting me to read all this? Really? Just say, what you mean and be done with it ;)


    Germanlady wrote: »
    She hasn't done her most evil yet, but she will.

    Once again: you must tell us where you got your crystal ball.

    No need for a crystal ball. Just read a few of the comments of the attack think 4ever posted. Some truth in there. Its not on the surface, but certainly you can find your crystal bal all over the net, where people speak out, who know better then you and me. Its really not that difficult. As long as you stick to mainstream media information, you will be mislead.

    They start raising fear in order for Clinton to start right off with her war. False flag attack. Once again.

  • Posts: 6,601

    Reuters Top News ‏@Reuters 42 Min.Vor 42 Minuten
    .@realDonaldTrump gains ground on @HillaryClinton, according to Reuters/Ipsos States of the Nation: http://reut.rs/2foA25g
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Are you expecting me to read all this? Really? Just say, what you mean and be done with it ;)


    Germanlady wrote: »
    She hasn't done her most evil yet, but she will.

    Once again: you must tell us where you got your crystal ball.

    No need for a crystal ball. Just read a few of the comments of the attack think 4ever posted. Some truth in there. Its not on the surface, but certainly you can find your crystal bal all over the net, where people speak out, who know better then you and me. Its really not that difficult. As long as you stick to mainstream media information, you will be mislead.

    They start raising fear in order for Clinton to start right off with her war. False flag attack. Once again.

    You mean 9/11 don't you? Why do I even need to ask...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,830
    bondjames wrote: »
    Guys, I'm not the one spewing hate and fear throughout this thread.
    But you don't know how you've been manipulated. You can't even conceive of the idea. You think you think for yourself, and you really don't/can't. Anyone who would pick Trump over ANY OTHER CANDIDATE just can't or won't see the realities involved. You're a good person, so it's not that you are intentionally being vicious or anything, you're just reacting in the desired fashion by those in power. Look, Hillary is as crooked as they come, but if even ARNOLD is voting for her, that really should tell you something about this issue.
  • It's time to prosecute Rudi Giuliani:
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,119
    network loss, edit
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,119
    network loss, edit
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 11,119
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Guys, I'm not the one spewing hate and fear throughout this thread.
    But you don't know how you've been manipulated. You can't even conceive of the idea. You think you think for yourself, and you really don't/can't. Anyone who would pick Trump over ANY OTHER CANDIDATE just can't or won't see the realities involved. You're a good person, so it's not that you are intentionally being vicious or anything, you're just reacting in the desired fashion by those in power. Look, Hillary is as crooked as they come, but if even ARNOLD is voting for her, that really should tell you something about this issue.

    Ask yourself this questions:

    QUESTION 1: How different would this election year be if Trump had a different Democratic opponent this year?

    QUESTION 2: How different would this election year be if Clinton had a different Republican opponent this year?

    To answer these questions, I think it's important to look at a broader scale to our Western democracies.

    In The Netherlands for instance our current Dutch prime minister Rutte (from the Conservative Liberal Party) is attacked for not trying to block the EU-Ukraine trade treaty more fiercefully. On top of that, the Dutch 'Breitbart' (called 'GeenStijl', 'NoStyle', supportive of Geert Wilders), calls all parties traitors of our democracy if Netherlands alone doesn't seem able to block the ratification of the Ukraine-EU trade treaty. If you recall this heated discussion, there was a consultative referendum about this issue in April in The Netherlands. A very low turnout, 33%, voted "NO": around 59%.

    Obviously, this kind of shameful blackmailing is dangerous. So this kind of verbal shit (and it is verbal shit) is not only happening in the USA. Every establishment politician these days, if it's the Dutch PM, Hillary Clinton, and now even Theresa May, is being attacked. That's the nature of western countries in which right-wing populism is taking over the nationwide narrative. With it, the less educated parts of societies become the most firm supporters of such populists.

    So if it's Trump, Wilders, Le Pen or Farage: They are not establishment politicians. They are rising populist stars. For every prosecuted Hillary Clinton, another Donald Trump gets exonerated for exactly the same 'non-crimes'. For every Mark Rutte, another Geert Wilders gets exonerated for exactly the same 'faul language'. Establishment people can do no good these days it seems, whereas populists seem to be....the 'popular popstars'. That's because their base is more energized, more motivated, more adament and more relentless in supporting their candidates.

    In this political environment, EVERY centrist-thinking, moderate thinking, establishment politician could do no good at all.

    So to answer QUESTION 1: No different at all. Every establishment candidate would be brandmarked a 'criminal crook' or would have to endure 'verbal blackmailing' like what Geert Wilders/GeenStijl is doing ("You will become traitors of our democracy") or what Donald Trump now says ("The elections will be rigged!")

    And to answer QUESTION 2: It would be slightly different I think. If Clinton faced Jeb Bush or Marco Rubio, we probably would have had slightly more discussions about the contents, about the issues and solutions regarding our complex problems. The campaign would be perhaps be slightly more 'political correct' (gosh, I am longing for some political correctness).

    So in the end.......I think right-wing populists like Geert Wilders and Donald Trump are certainly a reaction, a consequence of declining prosperity in western societies. But make no mistake, the same right-wing populists are single-handedly facilitating more destruction to our democracies, they are speeding up already dire complex problems like severe unemployment and state deficits. It's like Trump's and Wilders' base don't even know they themselves are kamikaze pilots.

    And that's what frightens me. And obviously, Mr Putin loves this western destabilization thanks to right-wing populism. Well frankly? I hope Mr Trump gets prosecuted for betraying our unborn childs, for making so many people believe in ghost stories and demagoguery. We all saw it before. Just consult history. It's dangerous.


  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Giuliani has one of the most punchable faces I've ever seen. Like Assange, he thinks everything is one big game.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited November 2016 Posts: 9,020
    Trump supporters are vilified, called stupid, bad Americans, manipulated.

    Deplorable.

    Makes one wonder if it's not the Hillary supporters that are manipulated.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Trump supporters are vilified, called stupid, bad Americans, manipulated.

    Deplorable.

    Makes one wonder if it's not the Hillary supporters that are manipulated.

    That contention would make more sense if Hillary didn't have the educated vote but, well, she does.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Trump supporters are vilified, called stupid, bad Americans, manipulated.
    There's a joke here, but I won't be the one that accesses it.
    :P
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Guys, I'm not the one spewing hate and fear throughout this thread.
    But you don't know how you've been manipulated. You can't even conceive of the idea. You think you think for yourself, and you really don't/can't. Anyone who would pick Trump over ANY OTHER CANDIDATE just can't or won't see the realities involved. You're a good person, so it's not that you are intentionally being vicious or anything, you're just reacting in the desired fashion by those in power. Look, Hillary is as crooked as they come, but if even ARNOLD is voting for her, that really should tell you something about this issue.
    I could level the same charge at you, but I won't. I admit though that I do think most of the Clinton supporters here are being led like sheep. I can appreciate why people dislike Trump though.

    For me it comes down to conflicts of interest (a big no-no to me), openness and trustworthiness when acting in an official capacity as a public servant. It's critical. We don't know what we'll get with Trump but we sure know what's in store with Hillary. You're actually seeing it during this campaign if you look closely enough. It's also about change vs. more of the same. I know Trump will give us change. I know Hillary will give us more of the same. I know that Trump is enough of his own man to stand up to power. I know Hillary is not. I know Trump is more of a democrat than he lets on. I know Hillary is more of a Republican (especially on foreign policy) than she lets on. I know Trump has run on a platform that has inspired people (yes, he has also inspired the wrong kind of people). I don't think Hillary has. That's why nearly every comment from a supporter of hers here is an anti-Trump comment rather than a pro-Clinton one.

    It's ironic that the one person who pointed out Hillary's flaws most cogently was Sanders. If she loses on Tuesday, he will have had more to do with it than Trump.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    bondjames wrote: »
    I could level the same charge at you, but I won't. I admit though that I do think most of the Clinton supporters here are being led like sheep.
    EHHHHHH! Wrong guess Hans.
    See? You keep doing it. You can't see it any other way. It's how they want it.

    I am not a "supporter". I hate Hillary. Most people who will be voting for her are doing so because of Trump, not because they support her.
    :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I could level the same charge at you, but I won't. I admit though that I do think most of the Clinton supporters here are being led like sheep.
    EHHHHHH! Wrong guess Hans.
    See? You keep doing it. You can't see it any other way. It's how they want it.

    I am not a "supporter". I hate Hillary. Most people who will be voting for her are doing so because of Trump, not because they support her.
    :))
    No, not a wrong guess. There is a full stop between the two comments I made which you quoted. I know exactly what you're doing. You are not who I was referring to above. I don't agree with you though, nor do I agree with what Bernie is currently doing through gritted teeth.

    Optimism must triumph over pessimism for the good of the country imho. If it's not to be his optimism, then it must be the other side's. That is the essence of my argument, and that's why I was for either Bernie or Trump.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    bondjames wrote: »
    Optimism must triumph over pessimism for the good of the country imho. If it's not to be his optimism, then it must be the other side's. That is the essence of my argument, and that's why I was for either Bernie or Trump.
    We actually mostly agree here, except for one thing- the change that Trump represents is vastly different from the change Bernie engendered. Change for the sake of change isn't always a good thing.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Optimism must triumph over pessimism for the good of the country imho. If it's not to be his optimism, then it must be the other side's. That is the essence of my argument, and that's why I was for either Bernie or Trump.
    We actually mostly agree here, except for one thing- the change that Trump represents is vastly different from the change Bernie engendered. Change for the sake of change isn't always a good thing.
    I fully agree, but where their views coincide is the crux of the problem in the US at the present time imho. F'cked up trade deals and too much foreign entanglements to support special interests. Actually, special interests, full stop.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Wait! "They" WANT Clinton in, that's why Trump! Holy crap, it was I who was manipulated all along!
    :-O
  • Posts: 6,601
    Yes
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Yes

    I knew I'd catch something with that line.
    =))
  • Posts: 6,601
    Yes, you made the effort and caught the Fish ;;)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @Germanlady seems to be the only non-American with some senses.
    The mass media is manipulating the people to believe Clinton is the better choice.
    With her, a new war will be imminent, I rather have this clown Trump in the White House. He would be the showman while serious Republican politicians would lead the country.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited November 2016 Posts: 17,830
    He would be the showman while serious Republican politicians would lead the country.
    Ummm, so, uh, to whom exactly are you referring here-? :-S
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    chrisisall wrote: »
    He would be the showman while serious Republican politicians would lead the country.
    Ummm, so, uh, to whom exactly are you referring here-? :-S

    Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Ted Cruz...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    chrisisall wrote: »
    He would be the showman while serious Republican politicians would lead the country.
    Ummm, so, uh, to whom exactly are you referring here-? :-S

    Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Ted Cruz...

    :) =)) Thanks man!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    He would be the showman while serious Republican politicians would lead the country.
    Ummm, so, uh, to whom exactly are you referring here-? :-S

    Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Ted Cruz...

    :) =)) Thanks man!

    Imagine Palin as Secretary Of State :D
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,589
  • bondjames wrote: »
    Guys, I'm not the one spewing hate and fear throughout this thread.

    Trump is the one who's spreading hate & fear in this election, not Hillary. Here's a nice link re: Trump and the hatemongers in modern America. These are your allies, @Jimmy.

    http://highline.huffingtonpost.com/articles/en/alt-right/
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    He would be the showman while serious Republican politicians would lead the country.
    Ummm, so, uh, to whom exactly are you referring here-? :-S

    Sarah Palin, Newt Gingrich, Ted Cruz...

    :) =)) Thanks man!

    Imagine Palin as Secretary Of State :D

    Oh. So you've just been trolling us on this thread as a joke. Ha. Ha. You only get a half-Dylan for that: "This Wheel's On Fire" by Bob Dylan & Robbie Roberston, as recorded by The Band.

    If your memory serves you well, we're going to meet again and wait
    So I'm going to unpack all my things and sit before it gets too late
    No matter what, we'll come to you with another tale to tell
    And you know that we shall meet again if your memory serves you well

    Wheel's on fire
    Rolling down the road
    Just notify my next of kin
    This wheel shall explode

    If your memory serves you well, I was going to confiscate your face
    And wrap it up in a sailor's knot and hide it in your case
    If I knew for sure that it was gone, and it was oh so hard to tell
    And you know that we shall meet again if your memory serves you well
    Wheel's on fire
    Rolling down the road
    Just notify my next of kin
    This wheel shall explode

    If your memory serves you well, you'll remember that you're the one
    Who called on them to call on me to get you your favors done
    And after every plan had failed and there was nothing more to tell
    And you know that we shall meet again if your memory serves you well
    Wheel's on fire
    Rolling down the road
    Just notify my next of kin
    This wheel shall explode...

This discussion has been closed.