The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @Germanlady seems to be the only non-American with some senses.
    The mass media is manipulating the people to believe Clinton is the better choice.
    With her, a new war will be imminent, I rather have this clown Trump in the White House. He would be the showman while serious Republican politicians would lead the country.

    Isn't it obvious that my statement was satirical?
    Why is that trolling?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Germanlady seems to be the only non-American with some senses.
    The mass media is manipulating the people to believe Clinton is the better choice.
    With her, a new war will be imminent, I rather have this clown Trump in the White House. He would be the showman while serious Republican politicians would lead the country.

    Isn't it obvious that my statement was satirical?
    Why is that trolling?

    Sometimes it's really, really hard to tell.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    To be clear I am not for or against one of the candidates, both would be a catastrophe.
    Hillary is dangerous, so is Trump, both for different reasons.
    It's like choosing between getting stoned to death or burned alive.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I find it deplorable though how hypocritical some of you are and how @bondjames opinion and quite often good arguments get shouted down.
    This is the reason why people get divided, the same happened with the Brexit, one side was unable to accept the other side's opinion.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    To be clear I am not for or against one of the candidates, both would be a catastrophe.
    Hillary is dangerous, so is Trump, both for different reasons.
    It's like choosing between getting stoned to death or burned alive.

    What I mean Jason is that so many people have had such cartoonish and nonsensical opinions on this election that it is genuinely hard to tell when people are being seriously or just pulling legs at this point.

    Both candidates are walking self parodies themselves from time to time, and don't make it hard for people to take the piss out of them.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I find it deplorable though how hypocritical some of you are and how @bondjames opinion and quite often good arguments get shouted down.

    Doesn't surprise me at all.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I find it deplorable though how hypocritical some of you are and how @bondjames opinion and quite often good arguments get shouted down.
    This is the reason why people get divided, the same happened with the Brexit, one side was unable to accept the other side's opinion.

    The people voting to leave the EU also had no bloody idea what they were even doing, a similar parallel to our situation now with Trump.
  • It's like choosing between getting stoned to death or burned alive.

    You may have missed my Dylan posting from a few days back. "Everybody must get stoned."

    Here's the song....
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I find it deplorable though how hypocritical some of you are and how @bondjames opinion and quite often good arguments get shouted down.
    This is the reason why people get divided, the same happened with the Brexit, one side was unable to accept the other side's opinion.

    The people voting to leave the EU also had no bloody idea what they were even doing, a similar parallel to our situation now with Trump.

    The problem with both these situations is that if you voice concern over immigration (a key factor in both scenarios) you're by default a bigot and a racist. If you're constantly told this you're going to snap - it's a bit like poking a dog with a stick.

    Politics is massively stretched these days, if people were a little more centrist we'd be in a much better situation, but the subtleties that come with being centrist are lost in a world where everything has to be a soundbite or condensed into 140 characters. It's left or right. My personal opinion is that those on the far left are far more narcissistic and self-aggrandising than they believe their counterparts on the right to be.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    RC7 wrote: »
    I find it deplorable though how hypocritical some of you are and how @bondjames opinion and quite often good arguments get shouted down.
    This is the reason why people get divided, the same happened with the Brexit, one side was unable to accept the other side's opinion.

    The people voting to leave the EU also had no bloody idea what they were even doing, a similar parallel to our situation now with Trump.

    The problem with both these situations is that if you voice concern over immigration (a key factor in both scenarios) you're by default a bigot and a racist. If you're constantly told this you're going to snap - it's a bit like poking a dog with a stick.

    Politics is massively stretched these days, if people were a little more centrist we'd be in a much better situation, but the subtleties that come with being centrist are lost in a world where everything has to be a soundbite or condensed into 140 characters. It's left or right. My personal opinion is that those on the far left are far more narcissistic and self-aggrandising than they believe their counterparts on the right to be.

    @RC7, both situations also involve sects of the respective populations banding together for any kind of change, no matter what that change is, after they feel dismissed and forgotten by their governments. It's change for change's sake, and not much more, and that's only part of why it's dangerous and/or reckless.

    As for left vs. right, we only stymie our development with bipartisan politics. It's either one of the other, nothing more, and this leads to massive divisiveness when it actually comes time to create laws or fix existing ones. It's why Congress majority refuse to play ball with the Democrats on anything and everything. In American politics we even have people called "whips" whose sole jobs involve making sure everyone votes inside the party and against the other on every issue, which explains it all, really. I don't know if you have an equivalent on the other side of the pond, but it wouldn't surprise me, since so much of what we have is derivative of English politics.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Party politics, it really makes no sense.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    In Switzerland we have 7 head of states, 7 Presidents if you will.
    7 from 4 different political parties.
    They are forced to work together and compromise.
  • gumboltgumbolt Now with in-office photocopier
    Posts: 153
    When you consider the generally positive outlook in 2008 when Obama was elected, its astonishing to think how badly the tone in US politics has shifted. The footage from tonight from North Carolina shows Obama being ignored and undermined by a Democrat crowd who lost the plot and showed just how divided the nation seems to be. But in saying that, I would not be in the least surprised if Trump turned out to be a lame duck, one term president capable of doing very little and delegating most of the important decisions to others. I suspect that this election leaves a terrible taste in the mouth but it won't poison the body of the nation like some people think. Nothing much changes and I don't think even a President Trump will change that much.
  • Posts: 6,601
    @Germanlady seems to be the only non-American with some senses.
    The mass media is manipulating the people to believe Clinton is the better choice.
    With her, a new war will be imminent, I rather have this clown Trump in the White House. He would be the showman while serious Republican politicians would lead the country.

    Isn't it obvious that my statement was satirical?
    Why is that trolling?

    Its not, as it was obvious, you would Not give anything I say your support. So, its all good. Better then Beatles lyrics. He seems to have a lot of Time on his hands and obviously thinks, everybody Else does, too :-??
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 3,327
    I can see Trump having a shock victory next Tuesday. You guys across the pond are going through a fairly similar thing to our shock Brexit win in the UK. I actually predicted Brexit and saw it coming months before, and I also predicted Trump winning a long time ago too (not that I am a fan of Brexit or Trump).

    It's just that I can see a political tide turning, a revolution leaning towards the right - more divisive, more insular, calls for more separation, a two fingers up to the political elite, a revolt against the establishment - which seems to be the fallout from years of shitty global policies - the wars in Iraq, the lies, the financial crash and no repercussions for the bankers who took us there, uncontrolled immigration, etc.

    Parts of the media in the States and over here in Europe are treating Trump and his supporters with the same contempt that has been dealt out to the people who voted Leave in the EU referendum - dumb, racist, ignorant. It's the same pattern emerging all over again.

    What you will discover next week is another shock outcome, and from this moment on the polls will never be trusted again. They predicted the UK General Election completely wrong, and they got it wrong with Brexit too. I have a feeling they will get it badly wrong next Tuesday too, and the fallout will be poured over and analysed for years.

    How didn't the political elite, the establishment not see it coming? How could the US be so stupid to vote this man in power? How could they turn against Hillary, who's had an army of celebs supporting her?

    Whether we like it or not, change, and BIG change, is happening all around us, and the media and established elite are having a hard time keeping up with it, and coming to terms with it.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    And Germany will be next in 2017, when Merkel at last will get removed. She single handedly destroyed Europe to say it bold and simple.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Yes sarcasm again.
  • Posts: 2,341
    About the divisiveness, I always said that people on the Right should be holding President Obama up as a poster child as to why they love America and why America is so great. Look at where he started. They should be rubbing the Chinese and Putin's face into it and beating their chests, but no. With the games in Washington, the opposition party resorted to race baiting, hate mongering just to stop any policies the President wanted to put forth, all sacrificed to the God of Party Politics.

    Which is why I think that my congressman left Washington and has come back to be the Governor of the state.

    What I find equally appalling is how Trump bends to the far Right wack jobs, those under educated inbred jackasses. Those represent a minority in the American electorate so why does the GOP bend over and spread their cheeks for old Verne and Jethro? ZZ top wannabees? huh?

    Shouldn't they try and lead them and educate them.?
    Heck during the Civil Rights movement of the sixties, it took Lyndon Johnson an old redneck former segregationist since the 1930's to just look at his "Good ole boys" and say, "its time to change". Johnson had no qualms about rolling up his sleeves and twisting arms and breaking kneecaps to get it done. I have always said that I think it was tougher for him to push Civil Rights legislation in the 60's than it was for Obama to get decent healthcare today. ( LBJ got it done. So WTF is Health Care still shit here? )

    American needs more leaders like LBJ and Harry Truman instead of these corporate hacks and war mongers (Clinton) and the immature total buffoons (Trump) running for office.
  • Posts: 3,327
    Yes sarcasm again.
    Only part of it was sarcasm, as Merkel will be removed in 2017.

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Optimism must triumph over pessimism for the good of the country imho. If it's not to be his optimism, then it must be the other side's. That is the essence of my argument, and that's why I was for either Bernie or Trump.
    We actually mostly agree here, except for one thing- the change that Trump represents is vastly different from the change Bernie engendered. Change for the sake of change isn't always a good thing.

    Good point, @chrisisall. Very true.

    So now I want to move to Switzerland (ok, especially because of the chocolate and because I love Audrey Hepburn...). What is their immigration policy, Jason? :)

    @RC7, seriously, just because people have concerns about immigration there should not be a knee jerk reaction to equating that to being bigoted; no. I agree with you on that. The vocal racists who then tend to pop up and swamp those discussions (not here, but what I see elsewhere on line) get too much attention. Immigration, like education or national defense, are important and always need improving (which means thoughtful discourse and reasoned, intelligent decisions.

    I would never vote for an openly bigoted candidate who encourages more bigotry and winks at violence, which Trump does. And again, that is only one key point against him; but it is not a small one. Also, his plans (vague as they are) are very unrealistic.

    Clinton is a career politician, been scrutinized for more than 20 years - and even with her faults (which you can argue about the rest of your life, go right ahead) she is overwhelmingly the better choice this election. No doubt about that.

    We only have these 2 choices, folks. We may get to the point where we become a 3rd party system. I think I would welcome that. But our current set up is not changing much any time soon.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    @jetsetwilly, Trump himself deserves the contempt. He has rightfully earned it.

    By all means, we should work to improve our political system, get better candidates, etc. But we have to get through this election first. Then keep going.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    @RC7, seriously, just because people have concerns about immigration there should not be a knee jerk reaction to equating that to being bigoted; no. I agree with you on that. The vocal racists who then tend to pop up and swamp those discussions (not here, but what I see elsewhere on line) get too much attention. Immigration, like education or national defense, are important and always need improving (which means thoughtful discourse and reasoned, intelligent decisions.

    Exactly. It's flabbergasting we can't seem to have this discussion.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    About the divisiveness, I always said that people on the Right should be holding President Obama up as a poster child as to why they love America and why America is so great. Look at where he started. They should be rubbing the Chinese and Putin's face into it and beating their chests, but no. With the games in Washington, the opposition party resorted to race baiting, hate mongering just to stop any policies the President wanted to put forth, all sacrificed to the God of Party Politics.

    Which is why I think that my congressman left Washington and has come back to be the Governor of the state.

    What I find equally appalling is how Trump bends to the far Right wack jobs, those under educated inbred jackasses. Those represent a minority in the American electorate so why does the GOP bend over and spread their cheeks for old Verne and Jethro? ZZ top wannabees? huh?

    Shouldn't they try and lead them and educate them.?
    Heck during the Civil Rights movement of the sixties, it took Lyndon Johnson an old redneck former segregationist since the 1930's to just look at his "Good ole boys" and say, "its time to change". Johnson had no qualms about rolling up his sleeves and twisting arms and breaking kneecaps to get it done. I have always said that I think it was tougher for him to push Civil Rights legislation in the 60's than it was for Obama to get decent healthcare today. ( LBJ got it done. So WTF is Health Care still shit here? )

    American needs more leaders like LBJ and Harry Truman instead of these corporate hacks and war mongers (Clinton) and the immature total buffoons (Trump) running for office.

    LBJ was the combination of a Trump and Clinton, though. He fought Vietnam with no actionable intelligence or common sense, putting over 50 million to death and changing history (negatively forever), solved Civil Rights issues only because he wanted to appeal to the masses favorably and in between all this he snaked and bribed his way through his administration in who knows how many instances. To cap it off, his character was as piggish and classless as you could get. This is a man who would randomly whip his penis out to aides and ask them if they'd ever seen one as long as his before.

    The only thing he was immaculately successful about is pissing on Kennedy's legacy. Beyond that, he remains one of the most destructive and poor commanders in chief we ever, ever had, and ever will.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    @RC7, I don't think we have tried to have a good discussion just on immigration on this thread .... but I have not read all the pages. I was absent a good deal this summer. If you mean (and I think you do) as a country - or with our two countries, yours and mine - then I agree. We need calm, reasoned discussion to work to improve the things that matter, including of course immigration. Isn't that logical? And can't we do it? I think we can and must start doing that a whole lot better.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited November 2016 Posts: 6,304
    @Germanlady, which German political leader do you support?
  • Posts: 3,327
    @jetsetwilly, Trump himself deserves the contempt. He has rightfully earned it.

    Of course he does, as does Clinton too. They are both equally despicable. I've been watching the US TV coverage and been surprised at the blatant bias that the media gets away with.

    CNN is backing Clinton, doesn't report on any of the FBI pending corruption, says she is ahead in all the polls, and looks to damage Trump in any way they can.

    Then you flick over to Fox News, and they are doing the exact opposite - Trump ahead, Clinton is corrupt, etc.

    We cannot get away with that kind of blatant biased news here in the UK on TV. I always thought we were slightly biased one way or the other, until I started watching these US channels. It's been a real learning curve for me.

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,304
    @jetsetwilly, Trump himself deserves the contempt. He has rightfully earned it.

    Of course he does, as does Clinton too. They are both equally despicable. I've been watching the US TV coverage and been surprised at the blatant bias that the media gets away with.

    CNN is backing Clinton, doesn't report on any of the FBI pending corruption, says she is ahead in all the polls, and looks to damage Trump in any way they can.

    Then you flick over to Fox News, and they are doing the exact opposite - Trump ahead, Clinton is corrupt, etc.

    We cannot get away with that kind of blatant biased news here in the UK on TV. I always thought we were slightly biased one way or the other, until I started watching these US channels. It's been a real learning curve for me.

    Not equally. That's a false equivalency. Ask any of the Republicans who are refusing to support Trump:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/04/opinion/the-banality-of-change.html?ref=opinion&_r=0
  • Posts: 342
    Parts of the media in the States and over here in Europe are treating Trump and his supporters with the same contempt that has been dealt out to the people who voted Leave in the EU referendum - dumb, racist, ignorant. It's the same pattern emerging all over again.

    How didn't the political elite, the establishment not see it coming? How could the US be so stupid to vote this man in power? How could they turn against Hillary, who's had an army of celebs supporting her?

    Whether we like it or not, change, and BIG change, is happening all around us, and the media and established elite are having a hard time keeping up with it, and coming to terms with it.

    As long as we allow political donations, the politicians will work for the donors - doing the bare minimum to gather votes to enact the policies of their donors.

    The donors cannot accept that their money does not give them total control over politicians. You see the contempt and anger they show to the voters who are not voting as their media are telling them to.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I disagree. The complete EU media treated the Brexit like a possible Armageddon. Talk about biased and one sided.
    The same goes for Trump, he is the personified devil in the media's eyes.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @jetsetwilly, I think it's all down to which shows you watch, as impartiality varies greatly in some spots.

    For CNN you can't go wrong with Don Lemon or Anderson Cooper, and for Fox Megyn Kelly and Bill O'Reilly have really improved as impartial commentators in my eyes over time. Fox is largely a joke of a network, especially their Fox & Friends news blocks, but there's some good commentators on there if you're looking for them that call it as they see it both ways, left or right.

    Sometimes I turn on Hannity just to have a laugh at his expense, as you need the cartoon character commentators too to balance things out.
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