The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @BeatlesSansEarmuffs

    We have something similar in Switzerland. The majority of the people may vote for something but as long as the majority of Cantons (States) don't vote for it either, it will not happen. There are some exceptions where the majority vote of the people will be enough.
    Just saying. Every system has its advantages and disadvantages.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    I've only been following this thread these past few days, and rarely do I contribute (it can get pretty nasty on these parts).

    Drawing parallels is an easy thing to do, you just have to look for them. Especially when comparing two incredibly controversial politicians. Bottom line, in knowing that one committed mass genocide and the other possessing a dumb, bigoted loudmouth, it becomes increasingly difficult to draw comparisons between the two.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    @timmer I agree he got a helluva lot done in those first two years. I live in the west end, and the garbage situation (the hum of their truck is outside my window as I write this), is a dream after that summer where Miller caused a strike, and then buckled and gave the union everything they had asked for (what was the point in that?).

    And what about Tory? Are you comfortable with him?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Fair enough. I accept defeat. :-) Politics isn't my thing anyway. Somehow it fails to make sense to me...
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    edited November 2016 Posts: 10,591
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Fair enough. I accept defeat. :-) Politics isn't my thing anyway. Somehow it fails to make sense to me...
    Believe me, it isn't my thing either. I'm not as politically well-versed as I'd like to be, which is part of why I tend to avoid this topic.
  • Posts: 19,339
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @barryt007, coming January, I'll be celebrating your birthday, friend, and nothing else.

    Thats the legend that is DD..thanks pal !

  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I'll say one more thing and get the Hell out of here. I teach in an a community (a very wealthy community) that is made up of most entirely recent immigrants (over 80%). Many of my students are Muslim, many are brown, we have a few hispanics, and a large variety of flavors are represented. It may seem academic to many of you, but the vitriol and dogma coming from Trump and his supporters over the past year plus is perceived as a real threat to the safety and peace, as well as the dignity, of much of the population I work with and care for. You can decipher and attempt to neutralize the words, you can tell them and me and us that it is all rhetoric and hyperbole, but people have been hurt. We had a rash of e-mails and texts hit our community over the past several months that repeatedly use the following phrases combined in some form or another: "Nigger", "Terrorists", "KKK", "Nazis", "Trump". Now where the Hell do you think that came from? And that is being repeated all over this goddamned country. I work with some of the brightest and most talented young people on the planet, who now, by his own words, believe that they will be living under a president who doesn't like them, doesn't want them and has used very thinly veiled code words, or overt words often, to suggest that his followers do them harm. That's the reality. From the most graceful of men, we now turn to the most grotesque. I don't need any responses, I will not read them. If you cannot clearly read what has happened, and how it fits historically in context, then you are a fool. Or worse.

    I absolutely agree. In Germany, everyone is shocked by the result and hardly anyone can understand the extreme support for Trump in the oldest democracy in the world. In fact, only 4% of the German population would have voted for Trump....
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Regarding the election, one thing that is rather unfortunate is the failure of the polls. They have been wrong in other instances (including Brexit), but were horrendously off this time around. There was definitely a hidden Trump vote, most likely on account of the abuse most people took for being supporters. Moreover, apparently both the Latino and the African American vote for Trump was actually higher than for Romney.

    The voter modelling information was probably completely off as well.

    This reminds me very much of the failures that led to the Financial Crisis. Financial Institutions had Mathematics PhD's running complex scenario models of potential failure points in the financial system. They missed the subprime mortgage crisis and systemic spillover effects that led to the catastrophic collapse of the global financial system in 2008. So did the big three credit rating agencies. What do we pay these idiots for?

    These scenario models are only as good as the assumptions that are built into them.

    It reminds me of the discussion between M, Bond and Tanner in GE about analysts and whether the Goldeneye satellite actually existed.

    Next time out, watch the IBD/TIPP and the USCA/LA Times polls. They have been right in the past and nailed it this time as well.
  • Posts: 2,918
    Purely for fun, I tried imagining what Fleming (and by extension Bond) might have felt about the election.
    I'm doubtful he'd have particularly liked Clinton, considering that the only female authority figure in his books is Rosa Klebb. Furthermore, his cavalier side would hardly take to a stolid technocrat.
    On the other hand, there's almost no way he'd have liked Trump. If there's one thing Fleming despised, it was vulgar American millionaires, as exemplified by Milton Krest (or the Spang twins). If that wasn't enough, the Russian connection would have enraged him (remember that the majority of villains in the books work for Russia). The idea of Russian espionage interfering with western elections would be anathema to an old cold warrior like him.
    What Fleming might have thought about the election is not a matter of importance, but it does hint at the changes in class and politics that have occurred in the 52 years since his death.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    The Center's (not Left's) pure arrogance lost them this election. They brushed Sanders aside instead of embracing him to even SOME small degree (too Left for them) & just KNEW Hillary could beat Trump. The f***ing idiots.
    Sanders & Trump represented change. Sanders represented better change. No Sanders? Then they (the poor & disenfranchised sick-of-the-game) picked the change they could. Yes, Hillary was a shitty status-quo candidate. And now we're rid of her. At the price of a POTUS who drags the office down to a gutter level, and a First Lady you can Google for nude pictures of. Still, this presents an opportunity. In four years we can try like Hell to reverse the mess TrumPence will no doubt entangle us all in. Unfortunately, any crappy Supreme Court picks will be with us for decades (not TOO many though, really crusty old white dudes with drinking problems & poor health records in general are the targets I expect).

    @bondjames I appreciate your optimism here. I pray your opinions are more on target than my own.
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    Nothing better than watching the clowns on NBC Nightly News is complete shock,, after their golden girl fell. The media let the country down by giving Trump 99 % of the air time through out this shit show. The media is the great divide!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @chrisisall, give him a chance. He's proven to be extremely tough, improvisational and hard working, just during this campaign alone. The way he crisscrossed the nation to make his case over the past month has been nothing short of impressive at his age, and made me realize that he is in fact very serious about wanting this job.

    Let's see how he conducts himself over the next two months. I think that as long as people keep an open mind, they will be pleasantly surprised.

    My big concern is the Republicans in Congress and the Senate. They had a decent night on his coat tails, and are unlikely to be open to bipartisan agendas. Ryan was visibly excited today. It will be up to Trump to make the case that bipartisanship is necessary. He has already spoken with Schumer and Pelosi about an infrastructure bill. He has to get that one done.

    On the foreign policy side, my big concern is the Iran Nuclear deal. I hope he doesn't scrap that, as he's threatened to do. It's not perfect and it lets Iran off the hook some years out, but for the time being it's the best that can be done. Trying to renegotiate it now will be folly, because Iran's help is critical to solving the Syrian fiasco and taking on ISIL. So Trump will have to stand up to Bibi.

    Finally, some of these hacks on tv who are stoking the fires of division (Van Jones I'm talking about you) have to STFU. This election is done. Get to work on healing the divide.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I'd like to say that I'm shocked by the result, but unfortunately I'm not. I'd had this sneaking suspicion for the past week or so that Trump was going to find a way to pull this thing out, and he did. It's unfortunate but not really unexpected considering the arrogance of the Clinton campaign and their "we've got this" mentality.

    First and foremost, I was shocked to learn while watching the returns that Clinton hadn't even bothered to visit Wisconsin. They took it for granted that the state would show up for her. What Trump lacked in organization on the ground in these states, he made up with by actually going to the states and talking to the people. The Democrats will no doubt want to try to pin this on an uninformed electorate or on whatever else that they may like, but the fact of the matter is that they blew it. They blew it by not reaching out enough to their own base and, going back even further, they blew it by having the heavy-hitters sit out the primaries so that Clinton could have a field mostly to herself before Sanders came from nowhere to give her a serious challenge. It was clear that the coronation was on from the get go, and Americans generally don't take well towards being told that they must support something that is inevitable like that.

    I'll say this for Trump. I hope he succeeds. America right now cannot afford to waste the next four years, and hopefully Trump will look at himself in the mirror and realize some of the harm his comments and Tweets have caused since the beginning of this campaign. I sincerely hope that he can continue the tone that he set in his victory speech, which was actually the best he's sounded during the entire process (a small bar to clear, no doubt). He needs to do some serious outreach to a great number of minority constituencies to try to mend the fences that he bullrushed through during the primaries. If he were smart, he'd put his Obamacare repeal on the back burner and go right into his infrastructure rebuild, and begin that initiative in Flint and then work his way out from there.

    Regardless, though, it's time for Trump to grow up and realize that he's now one of the most powerful men on the planet. Hopefully he takes that responsibility seriously and tries to actually do what he said he'd do in his speech, which is to be a president for ALL Americans, not just the Trump coalition that swept him into office.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    @dalton from your keyboard to Trump's ears.
    Hope is all we have now.
    Err, and maybe civil suits against Trump... I mean, he may be in serious trouble...

    D'oh, what am I even thinking???? He's still RICH! :))
  • Posts: 2,341
    We are all in a state of shock. I never thought Trump would ever win until yesterday evening. I saw the big lead and a part of me was in denial but I just knew the improbable was going to happen.

    The thought of that jackass in the oval office was too insane to comprehend and here we are. The religious right who preach family values supported a horse's (arse) and rode him into the White House. A man who has three wives (two divorced and living) a man who cheated on wife 1 with wife 2 and wife 2 with wife 3. A racist, mysoginist, xenophobe and homophobe asshole.

    Now the finger pointing: Clinton had that "machine" and she couldn't beat Donald Trump? Hell back in 2008 Obama, a relative newcomer to the scene left that machine bankrupt and shattered. It looked like the Japanese Task force at Midway after our bombers worked them over.
    Now eight years later they lose a national election. All I learned from the Clinton machine is that it was arrogant, over confident and just a bunch of half assed loosers.
    Trump has been labeled a "winner" while Clinton (at least in my eyes) will go down as the biggest looser.
    She now resembles a lumbering St Bernard running from a scrappy terrier after getting its ass whumped.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Hillary & the DNC are arrogant dumasses. They proved it last night.
    Bernie was the true weapon that was sheathed.
    Just like a dumass; bringing a Clinton to a Sanders fight. [-(
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited November 2016 Posts: 4,585
    So let me get this straight.. trump says he wants to deport illegal immigrants/Mexicans and the take away from that is "Trump wants to deport all Mexicans" so are they implying ALL Mexicans are here illegally?? That's kind of racist..

    "Bigot", "Bigot", blah blah blah...

    God forbid someone tells the truth and he is a racist. You have illegals pouring in through Texas where I live getting free housing, free healthcare and free college which I am not offered and I am an American citizen who pays tons of taxes.

    They get paid in cash and don't report their income either.

    I mean let's look at the facts....

    All celebrity men are Christian men and never say anything discriminating towards women? Wrong! Everyone in America worships these artist who talk about threesomes, referring to women as b1tches and hoes,etc and that's totally cool but the minute a tape leaks of a guy joking around which 90% of grown men do it's such a horrible thing.

    Hillary was being investigated by the FBI and they found nothing wrong okay then they re open the case.

    Whether she was innocent or guilty the bigger picture is that the average American watches tv and says oh my god she's being investigated by the FBI she is a criminal! That definitely did not help her election at all..

    There's video footage of Hillary flat out saying she hates gays and does not support them and then what two years later "I love the gays!!". Video of Obama dissing Hillary and saying she is bad for America. I mean come on.

    If you actually listen to Trump's speech he just gave he labeled out perfectly what he wants to do and it's honestly amazing. America used to be the best country in the world, business was booming, everyone wanted to come to America and live the American dream!

    Eight years of Obama and what do we get? Overpriced healthcare? I had to drop insurance way to expensive.

    Imagine being twenty two and working 6-7 days a week, paying car insurance, health insurance, rent, gas/food and oh yeah trying to pay for college. It's not easy but I never complain. It is funny how Clinton supporters posted statuses saying she would obviously win and Trump supporters are delusional and butt hurt but oh wait the Republicans and Trump won by a landslide.

    You're young @CASINOROYALE. You're forgiven. And since you likely attended a Texas public high school, it also means you have gone on to college with little grasp of U.S. History, certainly that which has occurred since WWII.

    You seem to think that all of the problems of the world began just 8 years ago. Fact is, they didn't.

    First of all, the borders have always been a sieve, and the problem worsened not when Obama took office or even when Bill Clinton took office. Nope. The President who first signed legislation that opened the doors to amnesty and further immigration was the Lord Ronald Reagan, champion of the Conservative cause, that mythic man of Liberty himself. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/01/30/in-1986-congress-tried-to-solve-immigration-why-didnt-it-work/

    Furthermore, the fact that illegal immigrants (really, those who have been brought to the country since they were very young) get free college tuition is a state issue. Not a federal issue. So you should take that up with your governor and state legislature. Don't you think?

    To continue on this point, you really contradict yourself here in a way that exposes your racism. At one point, you complain that America is no longer great because people don't want to come here anymore. Yet you also bemoan the fact that people are coming here--or, are you saying the "wrong" people? The ones with brown skin? You've really backed yourself into a corner with this.

    As for healthcare, the ACA needed to be fixed. Most laws do, especially enormous pieces of legislation like the ACA. The fixes were simple, but as you may or may not know (hard to tell because of that Texas thing), the legislative branch is where laws are written. So any fixes to the ACA have to start there--and, well, that branch of government is controlled by Republicans who refused to help on that matter. So they let the ACA fall apart to score political points, while at the same time forcing you to suffer financially. How does it feel to be a pawn in the Republicans' "war of ideology" against Democrats? Well, I hate to tell you, it's only going to get worse. It might be harder to afford all of those things you mentioned if Trump and the Rs do away with minimum wage--which they might try to do. Trump keeps wavering back and forth on this issue. And your college tuition keeps rising because states are cutting their (required) funding for them. But I am sure you will somehow find a way to blame Democrats for the budget cuts to education.

    And then there's this: at age 22, didn't you know that you qualify to be on your parents' insurance?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    TripAces wrote: »

    You're young @CASINOROYALE. You're forgiven.

    Trip, don't be like that. When I was 22 I was a stupid idiot too. It comes with the lack of mileage. =))
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    chrisisall wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »

    You're young @CASINOROYALE. You're forgiven.

    Trip, don't be like that. When I was 22 I was a stupid idiot too. It comes with the lack of mileage. =))

    That is why I forgave him. ;)
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It is true that the Clinton camp and DNC got complacent. Not going to all the states because you thought they were locked down and guaranteed to go blue is no excuse. As much as I find Trump hard to swallow, it can't be argued that he put in the ground work, talked his mouth off and visited numerous times to any and all states, regardless of if he needed them for his campaign or not.

    In many ways he had the advantage going in because in the face of a Clinton presidency-which too many blindly saw as inevitable in face of the alternative (including myself)-he and his team had to really put in the extra effort to make an impression while the Clinton camp got far too comfortable. Not going to Wisconsin post-primary is just one of the big mistakes of the Clinton camp that really would have made the race closer or more "winnable" than it was last night.

    At this point, who knows what's possible or impossible any more. Up is down, left is right, green is blue and fear is now a lifestyle for millions of Americans from this day forward who feel in danger of losing all the rights that make them a human being.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I was stupid, but I wasn't that stupid. I knew who the villains were.
    Are they as easily identifiable these days?
    To newbies on the intellectual firing range?

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Whatever the case is, I really hope this destroys the Republican and Democratic parties. For too long we've suffered with this one or the other crap.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Murdock wrote: »
    Whatever the case is, I really hope this destroys the Republican and Democratic parties. For too long we've suffered with this one or the other crap.
    YES.
    We need a political buffet. THEN competition comes into play.

  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    Whatever the case is, I really hope this destroys the Republican and Democratic parties. For too long we've suffered with this one or the other crap.
    YES.
    We need a political buffet. THEN competition comes into play.

    Precisely, the Unity Party with a minimum of 4 to 6 choices with the best qualifications and intentions possible.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I've just turned 23 and am now wondering how stupid I am. I fear I'm getting way too good at this self-loathing thing.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    I've just turned 23 and am now wondering how stupid I am.
    Brady, from what I've read from you, your '23' is easily doubled in wisdom, if not more. FWIW.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 572
    I had the oddest of feelings today. I actually felt bad for Hillary. I've completely disliked what she represents almost to the point of #neverhillary, but not quite. You could tell she really wanted it when she gave her concession speech. She really wanted it to be the first woman president. If she came across that genuine during the campaign, the polls would've been right.

    Perhaps I am sensitive to losing a campaign, because my mother ran in a local race in this election as an independent candidate. She lost to the republican candidate. It's hard to lose a race because you sell yourself that you're going to be the best candidate and win. But there is always only one winner and that's life. I just hope that people can be civil (I hate sore winners just as much if not more than sore losers). This country needs unity.
  • Posts: 12,474
    It's my opinion the winner should be whoever has the popular vote. And I'm not saying that just because of this election - I've felt that way for a while. That way everyone actually does have a voice.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Hillary grew up with her own father belittling her and questioning her abilities at anything, and that drove her to exceed expectations and demolish obstacles in her way. A hard working woman in a man's world, she spent her entire life before her 2007-2008 election run doing all she could to give voices to struggling families and kids all over the world, regardless of their skin color, gender, religion or sexuality to make them feel apart of the fabric of equality we've tried so hard to stitch for decades. The seat of president would have been the highest place and most advantageous position for her to continue that great work and to continue to expand the freedoms and feelings of welcome and warmth to everyone struggling to find their identity in the kind of hateful world her candidate in part represents.

    So yes, to put it lightly, she's crestfallen, dejected and chronically melancholic this day, and will be for a long, long time, as will be any progressive and compassionate voices that found hope in her message.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 1,469
    Revelator wrote: »
    Purely for fun, I tried imagining what Fleming (and by extension Bond) might have felt about the election...If there's one thing Fleming despised, it was vulgar American millionaires.
    Not American, and of course Fleming didn't write the screenplay, but the character that comes to mind (flings keys) "Hallo, are you going to take zis, or make me wait?"
    dalton wrote: »
    ...hopefully Trump will look at himself in the mirror and realize some of the harm his comments and Tweets have caused since the beginning of this campaign...it's time for Trump to grow up and realize that he's now one of the most powerful men on the planet. Hopefully he takes that responsibility seriously and tries to actually do what he said he'd do in his speech, which is to be a president for ALL Americans, not just the Trump coalition that swept him into office.
    I agree. The gravity of the situation may be hitting him--I think I picked up on some of that in his victory speech.

    I'm here in the U.S. and am still feeling a bit of the shock, surprise, and total shakeup that's accompanied the election result (I'm a moderate Democrat). I think Trump will be an unknown quantity in office--I think he has some good plans, but also obviously some very provocative ones--so it feels to me like we're about to enter uncharted territory. The handbrake is off. Alexis de Tocqueville wrote about "the great American experiment in democracy", and it feels to me like we're embarking on another chapter of that. Experiments contain a great degree of the unknown. But Americans have been and still are a courageous people--not that we have much choice now, since the results are known. A few of my Facebook friends wondered, "How could this happen, Trump being elected, a man with no political experience?" But as Adlai Stevenson said, "In America, anybody can be president." Of course, he followed that up by saying "That's one of the risks you take." But with risks and the rolling of the dice ("Always a double six when you need it") can come rewards, and it might change aspects of how the federal government works for the better and might even--hopefully; that's the point--improve the lives of Americans and people in other countries, rather than (God forbid) damaging them. Of course, we'll be watching closely! I think there's no doubt that this upheaval in the U.S. is connected in some way to the European 'populist' movement and even the Arab Spring, a churning in the bellies of people who want change.
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