The Next American President Thread (2016)

1181182184186187198

Comments

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    One thing is for sure: we're living in real, sure-fire history right now. Youngsters will ask us all decades from now what it was like to be alive during a time period of terrifying shake-ups such as this much in the same way I asked my older family members about living through stock crashes and the second World War. Generations from now, kids will study this stuff in their history classes and be unable to believe such a thing occurred before their lifetime like I did during my studies of the Vietnam war.

    It's crazy to put it into perspective.
  • Posts: 12,474
    I sure miss when things were boring already myself.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    An Obama presidency is the perfect exemplification of the adage, "You never know what you have until it's gone."
  • Posts: 12,474
    Heck yes. I'm going to miss him a lot.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    You'd think a Bush Jr. presidency would've made it click for us how lucky we are when we get it right, but we still have much to learn and appreciate about the honorable presidents, when they do come around.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Some people just want to watch the world burn...
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Murdock wrote: »
    Some people just want to watch the world burn...

    And our collective worries are larger than the size of a tangerine.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Hillary used to be a Republican. Bill s political career made her change to the other side.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Revelator wrote: »
    Purely for fun, I tried imagining what Fleming (and by extension Bond) might have felt about the election.
    I'm doubtful he'd have particularly liked Clinton, considering that the only female authority figure in his books is Rosa Klebb. Furthermore, his cavalier side would hardly take to a stolid technocrat.
    On the other hand, there's almost no way he'd have liked Trump. If there's one thing Fleming despised, it was vulgar American millionaires, as exemplified by Milton Krest (or the Spang twins). If that wasn't enough, the Russian connection would have enraged him (remember that the majority of villains in the books work for Russia). The idea of Russian espionage interfering with western elections would be anathema to an old cold warrior like him.
    What Fleming might have thought about the election is not a matter of importance, but it does hint at the changes in class and politics that have occurred in the 52 years since his death.


    That is interesting. If I didn't know better I'd think Trump was a character created by Fleming. A vulgar, rude, brash and narcissistic billionaire who lives in a golden tower, has a shady business history, orange skin and hair tupee, whose family has a German background and changed their name to cover it up, who has a foundation which is supposed to make donations for charity but in fact goes towards personal investments, who plays golf but is not very good at it, etc...

    There is plenty of material for a Bond novel here! Bernie Sanders would make a great M.
  • Posts: 6,601
    If you want change in whatsoever, turn it upside down and start new. The US and all the US relaited politics desperately need a change. So this is the chance. Whether or not it will work out - we shall see. Making peace with Russia and cutting TTIP is a great start. I believe, he didn't take it seriously so far. He got in with nothing to loose, so he just let it go. Yesterdays speech, which for the first time seemed genuine and emotional gave the hope, that he now takes it seriously and maybe proves to be much better then anybody expects. A possibility - nobody knows. But until we have seen him do his job for a year or so, people should just give him that chance. Be proud America chose to NOT listen to the crap of the mainstream media and free themselves from that influence. That's a huge step forward. Same with Brexit. They should learn from that,. that the sheep herd is breaking out and shows them their middle finger. Bravo!!
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    What we witnessed yesterday and a few months ago in the UK is a clear demonstration that the people have had enough of the policies which have been force fed to them by successive regimes over the past twenty odd years. They have delivered their verdict on globalisation and immigration as well as the raft of other issues upon which they have been simply ignored and I am of the belief that the precedent has now been set and will be echoed in forthcoming European elections. To me this is no bad thing. While Europe will continue to reject fascism we can expect the inexorable rise of 'populist' parties who champion the cause of putting their own citizens first. While the liberal/left elitists will shout and bawl they remain stubbornly unable to admit that it is their policies which are driving people to the right.
  • Posts: 2,918
    jobo wrote: »
    That is interesting. If I didn't know better I'd think Trump was a character created by Fleming. A vulgar, rude, brash and narcissistic billionaire who lives in a golden tower, has a shady business history, orange skin and hair toupee, whose family has a German background and changed their name to cover it up, who has a foundation which is supposed to make donations for charity but in fact goes towards personal investments, who plays golf but is not very good at it, etc...

    Ha! That does indeed sound like a stereotypical Fleming villain, right down to the grotesque appearance and Germanic background. Add the Russian connection (obviously Smersh!) and the book practically writes itself. At the end Bond will lead a commando team on an assault on the golden tower, after having seduced the villain's wife and beaten him at golf. And there will be the obligatory scene of Bond having to sit and listen to the villain explain his evil plan: "I have a diabolical scheme Mr. Bond. It's beautiful. It's the best scheme ever. Much better than that loser Goldfinger's. It's yuuuuge..."
  • Posts: 7,507
    Revelator wrote: »
    jobo wrote: »
    That is interesting. If I didn't know better I'd think Trump was a character created by Fleming. A vulgar, rude, brash and narcissistic billionaire who lives in a golden tower, has a shady business history, orange skin and hair toupee, whose family has a German background and changed their name to cover it up, who has a foundation which is supposed to make donations for charity but in fact goes towards personal investments, who plays golf but is not very good at it, etc...

    Ha! That does indeed sound like a stereotypical Fleming villain, right down to the grotesque appearance and Germanic background. Add the Russian connection (obviously Smersh!) and the book practically writes itself. At the end Bond will lead a commando team on an assault on the golden tower, after having seduced the villain's wife and beaten him at golf. And there will be the obligatory scene of Bond having to sit and listen to the villain explain his evil plan: "I have a diabolical scheme Mr. Bond. It's beautiful. It's the best scheme ever. Much better than that loser Goldfinger's. It's yuuuuge..."


    Anthony Horowitz? Barbara Broccoli? Are you listening?

    ;)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    TTIP has been declared as good as dead, already one big plus of this election result.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    TTIP has been declared as good as dead, already one big plus of this election result.

    But the Canada-EU deal is in place, and can be used as a backdoor in the near future.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Germanlady wrote: »
    If you want change in whatsoever, turn it upside down and start new. The US and all the US relaited politics desperately need a change. So this is the chance. Whether or not it will work out - we shall see. Making peace with Russia and cutting TTIP is a great start. I believe, he didn't take it seriously so far. He got in with nothing to loose, so he just let it go. Yesterdays speech, which for the first time seemed genuine and emotional gave the hope, that he now takes it seriously and maybe proves to be much better then anybody expects. A possibility - nobody knows. But until we have seen him do his job for a year or so, people should just give him that chance. Be proud America chose to NOT listen to the crap of the mainstream media and free themselves from that influence. That's a huge step forward. Same with Brexit. They should learn from that,. that the sheep herd is breaking out and shows them their middle finger. Bravo!!

    I have to give it to you, I 100% agree with that statement.
    This uprising with the means that democracy provides is needed and Brexit and Trump only were the start.
    The (lower) middle class is finished turning the other cheek, they make themselves heard, finally.

    That's the good thing about it.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    After all the vomit Trump has disgorged during his campaign, Trump must lower his voice a bit now that he's put in office, by a numerical minority I might add. And he will. And that right there will immediately put off a large number of his voters.

    But okay, let him prove his worth. Let him change things. I doubt he will though. The world is a very complicated place. One of democracy's weaknesses (or strengths?) is that it usually doesn't allow for sudden changes. A dictatorship would have suited Trump better to push his plans through, but now he shall have to shake a lot of hands, please a lot of people and start working on his next campaign. The following years may end up some of the most wasted years in the recent history of America.

    I hope I'm wrong of course.
  • Posts: 6,601
    TTIP has been declared as good as dead, already one big plus of this election result.

    But the Canada-EU deal is in place, and can be used as a backdoor in the near future.

    Yes, but with Clinton it would have been upon us for sure. So - there is hope.
    There is hope, that in the wake of a closer relation with Russia, other problems will be solved regarding the East and some...the more people realise - finally - that they are much stronger then those, who "seem" to have the power, the more will they use this power and stick it to them - up their very a***.
    If they realise, they acted like stupid marionettes, swalloing everything they were fed - and with that I mean ALL, also the seemingly intelligent ones, instead of thinking for themselves, something good might come out of that.

    You know the picture of a circle drawn on a piece of paper. Put an ant into it - it will stay within the circle. That's what we do. Break freee of that circle. Its but an illusion!!

  • Posts: 7,507
    The attempt of channeling this into a heroic 'revenge of the middle class' is admirable but carries too many holes. You realize they have voted for a right wing populist? One who has made a fortune on exploiting people and hasn't paid his taxes? Who proposes tax cuts for business owners? Who wants to abolish the one necessary wellfare reform Obama managed to push through?

    You realize they have given the GOP the absolute power of the president, the congress and the senate. The party that has held back America with its conservative, pro elite politics for decades? Who for a period of more than hundred years has done everything in its power to block every wellfare reform promoted by the Democratic party? Who's policy is based on denying the less fortunate basic rights?

    If anything this yet again shows how confused American politics is. There is nothing which Trump or his party stands for that will help the American working class, on the contrary it will only make the situation worse. Yet they manically vote for him in the hope that he is their saviour simply because he is a business man?

    It is depressing and tragic, that's what it is.
  • Posts: 6,601
    So what about Obamacare? All the people I ever hear talking about it and some personal friends are among that say, its way too expensive to do any good. Tell me WHAT exactly Obama did, that helped the poorer?
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 7,507
    Germanlady wrote: »
    So what about Obamacare? All the people I ever hear talking about it and some personal friends are among that say, its way too expensive to do any good. Tell me WHAT exactly Obama did, that helped the poorer?



    The reason is that the Republicans did everything in the power to make sure it would not work. It has been explained several times on this forum already. And it is one of the factors that won them the election this time. Well played! =D>

    Obama's entire period in office has been about fighting against a Republican majority in the senate that has systematically worked against him. That should really be public knowledge by now... Yet he has managed to stabilize the economy somewhat, cut back on the unemployment rate. Not that the middle class watching Fox News has catched up on that though. For them he is to blame for everything Bush left behind. Another Republican masterstroke. =D>
  • Posts: 6,601
    Oh, so its all a mistake of the Republicans. So, in the end, not the presidents party rules but the opposition. I am not saying, they don't cut each other short.

    Same overall, but at the end of the day

    Had the party you advocate done a proper job overall, none of this would have happened.

    There seem to be a lot of people really unhappy. Why is that if everything is so great, that we need to have it 4 more years? Explain that.
  • Posts: 7,507
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Oh, so its all a mistake of the Republicans. So, in the end, not the presidents party rules but the opposition. I am not saying, they don't cut each other short.

    Same overall, but at the end of the day

    Had the party you advocate done a proper job overall, none of this would have happened.

    There seem to be a lot of people really unhappy. Why is that if everything is so great, that we need to have it 4 more years? Explain that.


    Why should I have to explain mandatory things that anyone watching the news (not CNN before you accuse me of that) over the last decade should know?

    The Bush administration was a disaster! Expensive, exhausting wars combined with massive tax cuts. How to stabilize budgets? Massive loan deals abroad of course. In the end the bubble burst, the unemployment rate skyrocketed, USA was burried in debt, Obama inherited the worst political landscape since Franklin Roosevelt. In addition to that the Republicans had the senate, and proclaimed their 'job was to make sure he is a one term president'. They failed but not for lack of trying. Those are the main issues the working class has to deal with. I am not making it up. Its common knowledge for those not perverted by conservative American media and propaganda.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 6,601
    That would make at least some sense, if you think, all the costs for military actions was forced upon them, which is not the case. But going into that, would go too far here.
    What you wrote is indeed common knowledge, which already makes it mainstream, since its painted in black and white.

    Politics, as most things, are always multi layered, so we all have points, that come closer to the truth then others.

    Trump hit a nerve with many, none with others. Hilary was hated so much -why is that? Caused by the Republicans, too? Its strange, how people stop seeing her fails, caused by nobody but herself. Had she had a clean history, had she cared to actually not be corrupt and I don't even start with ISIS and co, she might have gotten the job.

    How come, that a man, almost equally hated with no clean sheat either was elected?
    Its an effort to turn the old upside down and hope for something new and better to come out of it. Will that happen?

    I have no idea - but neither have any of you. So maybe stop moaning and wait, till there are actual reasons provided by Trump, to do so.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    The Americans don't deserve Obamacare.
    The Reps will alter it now or doing away with it altogether.
    The voter gets what he wants.
    More fool you!
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 7,507
    The Americans don't deserve Obamacare.
    The Reps will alter it now or doing away with it altogether.
    The voter gets what he wants.
    More fool you!


    Exactly! And it's the vote of those who needed the ACA the most. That, in a nutshell, is the tragic and confused paradox I am talking g about and which symbolises American politics.
  • Posts: 1,296
    Kim Kardashian 2020
  • Posts: 7,507
    @Germanlady

    I am not sure what is more interesting about your constant mentioning of the Saudi Arabian arms deal. 1) Your claim that Hillary and her foundation is the only one responsible party, and the only one guilty. Lets face it, the entire western world is in bed with Saudi Arabia. Even nice boys Sweden and Norway are supplying them with arms and cooperating on oil prices. That deserves a lot more attention and debate, I certainly agree, but it doesn't amount to the USA (let alone the Clintons) alone, it is a general problem. Or 2) your insistence that it has affected her popularity in this election. That topic hasn't been on the agenda at all. The accusations against Hillary are fueled by the general claim that she is a liar, and the business of the email server. Both factors completely blown out of proportions by the conservative propaganda machine.
  • Posts: 6,601
    1) I never said, it was she alone, but she has had at least one leg in
    2) It did affect her, as it was a topic in the emails reg her foindation.

    Lets agree to not agree,but we are going in circles here and that is tiring.
  • CASINOROYALECASINOROYALE Somewhere hot
    edited November 2016 Posts: 1,003
    TripAces wrote: »
    So let me get this straight.. trump says he wants to deport illegal immigrants/Mexicans and the take away from that is "Trump wants to deport all Mexicans" so are they implying ALL Mexicans are here illegally?? That's kind of racist..

    "Bigot", "Bigot", blah blah blah...

    God forbid someone tells the truth and he is a racist. You have illegals pouring in through Texas where I live getting free housing, free healthcare and free college which I am not offered and I am an American citizen who pays tons of taxes.

    They get paid in cash and don't report their income either.

    I mean let's look at the facts....

    All celebrity men are Christian men and never say anything discriminating towards women? Wrong! Everyone in America worships these artist who talk about threesomes, referring to women as b1tches and hoes,etc and that's totally cool but the minute a tape leaks of a guy joking around which 90% of grown men do it's such a horrible thing.

    Hillary was being investigated by the FBI and they found nothing wrong okay then they re open the case.

    Whether she was innocent or guilty the bigger picture is that the average American watches tv and says oh my god she's being investigated by the FBI she is a criminal! That definitely did not help her election at all..

    There's video footage of Hillary flat out saying she hates gays and does not support them and then what two years later "I love the gays!!". Video of Obama dissing Hillary and saying she is bad for America. I mean come on.

    If you actually listen to Trump's speech he just gave he labeled out perfectly what he wants to do and it's honestly amazing. America used to be the best country in the world, business was booming, everyone wanted to come to America and live the American dream!

    Eight years of Obama and what do we get? Overpriced healthcare? I had to drop insurance way to expensive.

    Imagine being twenty two and working 6-7 days a week, paying car insurance, health insurance, rent, gas/food and oh yeah trying to pay for college. It's not easy but I never complain. It is funny how Clinton supporters posted statuses saying she would obviously win and Trump supporters are delusional and butt hurt but oh wait the Republicans and Trump won by a landslide.

    You're young @CASINOROYALE. You're forgiven. And since you likely attended a Texas public high school, it also means you have gone on to college with little grasp of U.S. History, certainly that which has occurred since WWII.

    You seem to think that all of the problems of the world began just 8 years ago. Fact is, they didn't.

    First of all, the borders have always been a sieve, and the problem worsened not when Obama took office or even when Bill Clinton took office. Nope. The President who first signed legislation that opened the doors to amnesty and further immigration was the Lord Ronald Reagan, champion of the Conservative cause, that mythic man of Liberty himself. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/01/30/in-1986-congress-tried-to-solve-immigration-why-didnt-it-work/

    Furthermore, the fact that illegal immigrants (really, those who have been brought to the country since they were very young) get free college tuition is a state issue. Not a federal issue. So you should take that up with your governor and state legislature. Don't you think?

    To continue on this point, you really contradict yourself here in a way that exposes your racism. At one point, you complain that America is no longer great because people don't want to come here anymore. Yet you also bemoan the fact that people are coming here--or, are you saying the "wrong" people? The ones with brown skin? You've really backed yourself into a corner with this.

    As for healthcare, the ACA needed to be fixed. Most laws do, especially enormous pieces of legislation like the ACA. The fixes were simple, but as you may or may not know (hard to tell because of that Texas thing), the legislative branch is where laws are written. So any fixes to the ACA have to start there--and, well, that branch of government is controlled by Republicans who refused to help on that matter. So they let the ACA fall apart to score political points, while at the same time forcing you to suffer financially. How does it feel to be a pawn in the Republicans' "war of ideology" against Democrats? Well, I hate to tell you, it's only going to get worse. It might be harder to afford all of those things you mentioned if Trump and the Rs do away with minimum wage--which they might try to do. Trump keeps wavering back and forth on this issue. And your college tuition keeps rising because states are cutting their (required) funding for them. But I am sure you will somehow find a way to blame Democrats for the budget cuts to education.

    And then there's this: at age 22, didn't you know that you qualify to be on your parents' insurance?

    I did not go to public high school, private school actually. All my college classes were government and history classes. Straight A student. The fact that people compare Trump to Hitler is very offensive.. I know I am young but I am not stupid. I grew up visiting our capitol and going to compaign/election parties. I know more about politics then most guys around my age.

    Not once did I say I hate anyone who is not white. LOL. I won a national and state basketball championship and at one point was the only white guy on my team. I have family members who are mixed, half Mexican and half white.

    I have friends who are Muslim and of brown skin. Being here illegally is against the law last time I checked and until you take a visit to the border and see swat teams and tanks fighting cartel members then you have no say.

    I respect your views but like I said there's good people coming in across the border and also tons of cartel members are pouring in.

    Wanting to strengthen our borders is not racist.

This discussion has been closed.