The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • edited November 2016 Posts: 572
    So I'd like to sway the conversation a little bit and ask about the electoral college, given the result of this election.

    I've just read several very interesting articles both for and against the electoral college (EC). I like the fact that the EC does (in theory) prevent candidates from having to only focus on large population centers, where it is most efficient to do outreach. That said interests of seemingly very random "battleground" locations end up receiving excessive attention with our current system. I like that the EC more that it gives a clear-cut decisive winner, where a popular vote system could result in issues when elections are tight (ie. how/when/on what scale to conduct recounts). Because each vote would directly count, I do feel it brings stronger temptation to tamper/rig results with a popular vote system. That said, the same could be said with the winner-take-all approach most states have today. It also does seem unfair deep blue/red states like CA or TX likely have a tendency of repressing votes for the minority party.

    This all leads me to believe that we should keep the electoral college, but instead of using the winner-take-all approach for electors, they be tied to percent of the vote for that state. That would essentially bin votes into a weighted system which would take the pressure off of the validity of each individual ballot cast. It would also take care of repressed areas, namely rural votes in states with a lot of population centers and urban votes in states dominated by a rural landscape. It would also give a more representative result of the popular vote.

    Thoughts?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @chrisisall

    still reading the thread, what is the DNC? a lobby?
  • @chrisisall Wow, well put.
    @BondJasonBond006 DNC = Democratic National Committee (I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, so if you are, my bad.)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    JamesStock wrote: »
    @chrisisall Wow, well put.
    Thanks. I've calmed down a bit.
    :P
  • Posts: 1,631
    With regards to the protesting, I don't see the harm in it so long as what happened in Portland last night doesn't become the norm. Given the way Trump ran his campaign, those that were deeply opposed to him need some space to vent, let their feelings be heard, and ultimately come to grips with the fact that we're now facing 4-8 years of a Trump administration. As far as I'm concerned, it's their Constitutional right to do so, so long as it's done peacefully and without damage to person or property.

    Thankfully, President-elect Trump seems a bit more calm and mellow than candidate Trump, at least thus far. As others have already surmised, I sincerely hope that his first security briefing gave him a wake up call as to the gravity of the office he's just ascended to, as I've read over the past couple of days that it's been a sobering event for the last few men who have won the presidency.

    I do like the general idea of his wanting to focus on infrastructure. He's in that field, so I could see that being something he'd do a good job with, and from reading Politico over the past day or two it sounds like the Democrats are on board with at least the general idea of what he wants to do, so perhaps that's an area that there can begin to be some debate where common ground can be reached between the two parties. That's where I'd start if I were Trump, not on Obamacare.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    I have no problem with people being disappointed and angry, needing to vent etc. However the signals of protesting on the streets and calling for "togetherness" run somewhat perpendicular, wouldn't you say?

    If they want to protest, fine, but one needn't wonder why there is no unity in the country when one is marching down the street yelling "F--- Donald Trump!"
  • Posts: 1,631
    The flip side is true as well, though. It's not hard to imagine why there's no unity when the President-elect ran his campaign the way that he did. He could have run on the whole outsider thing without having to disparage virtually every minority group out there. While the country was divided before his candidacy, he essentially poured gasoline onto an already simmering fire. He bears just as much, if not more, responsibility for trying to bring the country back together as the people currently marching in the streets protesting his campaign/election do.
  • I have no problem with people being disappointed and angry, needing to vent etc. However the signals of protesting on the streets and calling for "togetherness" run somewhat perpendicular, wouldn't you say?

    If they want to protest, fine, but one needn't wonder why there is no unity in the country when one is marching down the street yelling "F--- Donald Trump!"

    It isn't "One" mendes -- it's thousands. When you've got 10,000 people in the streets (and yes, I've been there, and have yet to smash a single window -- in fact, I've prevented a few from being smashed thank you very much) you can have 99% of the 99% being peaceful -- but 1% of 10,000 = 100 idiots. 100 idiots can do a lot of damage.

    As I said, I actually have prevented a few windows from being smashed in my time. Now it's time for YOU to step up. How many racial motivated attacks have you personally prevented in your lifetime, hm? We know they're happening, and they're Trump people so they're your responsibility. Whatcha gonna do?

    Quicksilver Messenger Service: What About Me?



    "You poisoned my sweet water.
    You cut down my green trees.
    The food you fed my children
    Was the cause of their disease.
    My world is slowly fallin' down
    And the air's not good to breathe.
    And those of us who care enough,
    We have to do something...
    Oh... oh What you gonna do about me?
    Oh... oh What you gonna do about me?"
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2016 Posts: 8,400
    That is true. There is no rulebook on how to reach the White House without the backing of the establishment. Trump obviously made a lot of mistakes along the way, some due to not being a skilled enough politician. But, if anything I think Trump has been more honest and open than any politician ever would. Not that I think he is a great guy particularly, but he doesn't have the same filter. When we are always decrying the lack of honesty from our elected officials, maybe it isn't such a bad thing. Sure, it may be an unpalatable honesty sometimes, but its still worth something.

    Anyway, you are right that Trump has to make an effort to show that he is ready to represent the whole country, but I feel like some people haven't even given him the opportunity to do that. He did give a good acceptance speech where his air seemed to have changed and matured slightly. It's possible that now his is in, and he doesn't have to put the act on anymore to attract the voters, that he could at least do some positive things that no establishment candidate ever would.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Anyway, you are right that Trump has to make an effort to show that he is ready to represent the whole country, but I feel like some people haven't even given him the opportunity to do that. He did give a good acceptance speech where his air seemed to have changed and matured slightly. It's possible that now his is in, and he doesn't have to put the act on anymore to attract the voters, that he could at least do some positive things that no establishment candidate ever would.

    I would agree with this. Not everyone has given him a chance. But, at the same time, I think those who haven't should be given some space to vent their frustration. This was one of the nastiest, negative, and emotionally draining elections we'll ever see at the national level. Emotions on both sides were running very high for the past 18 months or so, so it's only natural that all of that needs a release. Given that we've got two months to go until there's any chance of seeing President Trump in action, it's going to take some time for people to come around, assuming (and this is taking a leap of faith) that Trump even gives them reason to.


  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    A snippet of Trumps first interview post-election:



    I don't know, but I feel like the guy is showing signs of growth, while still keeping the "I'm good with deals" mentality that served him well, and was really the foundation of his campaign.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited November 2016 Posts: 2,722
    The narrative has already been set in motion. And liberals are split between digging their heels in on the Trump fear and hate and doubling down on their white guilt with minorities. Conveniently ignoring the fact that Trump won more of the minority vote than Romney did in 2012.

    Trump is a lightning rod for everyone to vent their frustrations out on - he is saviour or villain - and they will never be convinced of otherwise. Especially the ones kicking trump supporters in the head on the street or pulling off muslim women's hijab's and yelling 'get out of this country'. These are the stories that will be perpetuated not some on-going, slow burning, gradually building debate between communities. That's too intangible. A country divided, California splintering from the union - these are the clickbait.

    People want change but congress will not allow this proposed removal of lobbyists - that will directly hit them in the pocket. And they are the ones who make that decision. The RNC will be cautious - they will make sure there is nothing that diminishes their meal on the gravy train. One thing I do see changing is Supreme Court justices swinging back toward conservatism. And this will be an RNC led appointment suggested to Trump.

    Trump is already removing campaign promises from his website and backtracking on his staunch stance on Obamacare and even the Paris agreement - probably because he realises it will take an entire term in office just to extricate the US from that. People who expect anything from him other than business as usual are in for a surprise. Mainly because congress will not allow their grip on the system to be moved. They did it to Obama - they'll do it to Trump. It's one thing for him to throw abuse at immigrants and Muslims and make statistics and 'facts' up on a podium to a hall full of believers - It's another when he tries to stop the Washington free buffet. That is the kind of thing that sees you tied up in filibusters and roadblocks every day. You might be steamrolling through states in an election campaign but you're treading in molasses when you're serving your term.
  • Posts: 6,601
    I suppose, everybody has heard this already and it doesn't matter, whether or not he means everything, whether or not, he is ALLOWED to do so - all that matters is - every word IS TRUE! It desn't even matter, whether or not YOU believe it. What matters is - its out there now. Clear and strong, spoken without fear for all to hear. Its time, people start thinking about it and they will.

    http://quer-denken.tv/eine-rede-von-trump-mit-deutschen-untertiteln/
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I have seen that video before, it is a very good speech.
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 6,601
    I have seen that video before, it is a very good speech.

    The more I see and hear of him, the more, I actually have hope and start to even like him.

    Remember, I never said, i like him. I just am sure, he is a lot better then Clinton, because Clinton is sooo bad. Its not difficult to be better. Maybe he turns out to be even better, then I have hoped.

    I wonder, if somebody can watch this and NOT start to think.
    Can you really watch this and STILL believe in Clinton?

    Are you really going to say - Naa, its all bs. Not true! Just to stay in your bubble?

    There are countless options in the net to find, that back up all of this. You have two choices IMO - stop whining, if you don't have the nerve to do that OR become open to have a change of mind. Not towards Trump, but towards Clinton, which in the end, will become the same.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    And with a little spin doctoring and thunderous applause from the ignorant, a madman's rise to the presidency is condoned.

    "See? Trump isn't so bad because he's already backtracking on his wild promises!" Wait, is there any logic left in this? People elect Trump based on his ridiculous fury and now celebrate the fact that most of that fury is gone... They had the balls to join the fascist hysteria of ALL MEXICANS OUT! and have now woken up again, sober, happy to see that their beloved would-be Hitler has decided not to go 1930 on America after all. They elected a warrior but are glad that he's wimping out already. Now, the few scraps of normalcy that Trump's campaign had latently brought to the game, that had gone lost amidst all the loudness and buffoonishness, is what people are actually celebrating? Hillary, whose campaign, admittedly, was weaker than a rotten twig, still, at the very least, kept some sanity and dignity and decided not to play things like the school bully. Looks to me like this is the person people wanted, even when they voted Trump, seeing how Trump's more moderate and indeed more modest behaviour of these past few days is what they're now complementing him on.

    I'm terribly confused now. It also demonstrates how people voted out of anger, fear, ... but not necessarily using their intellect. The same reason why teens rebel against their parents (and in later life realise that may not have been the smartest thing to do) seems to be why people voted Trump. They too will realise some day it was a mistake. But hey, let's all just feast on some hamburgers and some coke and get obese and search for ghosts in the house. What? I'm not allowed to draw out stereotypes? Oh I'm sorry... Learning from Trump's campaign, I was under the impression that's the new cool again...
  • Posts: 6,601
    DD, why don't you answer my question instead of repeating the same old hate?
    Have you seen the vid? Has anybody here bothered even? And if so - nothing in yourself wants to know, whether or not its true? That leave ME confused and somewhat sad.

    But nevermind, the truth comes out more and more until even the last person has understood, how this game is played out. There will be a time, when you will remember me. "Oh, GL was right after all"
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    My dear GL, no offence but that speech is exactly what people want to hear. I could have written something quite like that. All this Hollywood inspired speech does is point out the many cracks in the system, which only a stoned hippy would deny exist, but barely suggests an actual way to deal with them. Every presidential candidate, every politician, including politicians in your country and in mine, seems expert in pointing fingers, in accusing the previous government, in cheap demagoguery. "I'm doing this because this country has given me so much and I want to give something back." What are you going to do? Solve the problems. How will you do that? In such a way that America will be a better place again. How will you make it a better place? By cleaning up the mess the previous government left behind. How will you do that? ...

    How can you be fooled by this? The structure of that video is so transparent you'd have to blind not to see the charade.

    PART 1
    Point out the many flaws in the status quo.

    PART 2
    Say you're going to solve things - just don't say HOW you're going to do that because you haven't the faintest idea, because you, as one man or even one administration CANNOT do that because there are too many players in the game who collectively are way more powerful than one president and his office!

    Oh and don't forget the film score. That right there nails it. Victory sounds, allowing people to make a fist and yell "YEAH!". I'll keep that in mind. Next time I have air to sell, I'll dig me up some Hans Zimmer and get rich.

    There's nothing in that video I couldn't have scripted myself. This is worse than a commercial for the next sitcom nobody wants to watch but will because the television station sells it so well. The video makes me believe Clinton and co were the worst politicians we've ever had whereas he's the new bloody Christ, our saviour. But I'm not getting one iota of HOW Trump is going to solve all those crises he fabricated for the first half of the video.

    I don't know if I have to cry or laugh anymore.

    If in four years from now it turns out you were right, I'll happily concede that much. However, I think that the voters in minority, the ones who through this fabulous democratic system put Trump in office, will rather have learned the phrase, "we didn't know"...
  • Posts: 1,970
    I haven't been on here since before election night. WOOT WOOT my guy won!!!! Im very happy Trump won. I voted for him and i am very proud of it. The GOP controls everything!!!
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,400
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    I haven't been on here since before election night. WOOT WOOT my guy won!!!! Im very happy Trump won. I voted for him and i am very proud of it. The GOP controls everything!!!

    Yes, its very good news.
  • DarthDimi wrote: »
    All this Hollywood inspired speech does is point out the many cracks in the system, which only a stoned hippy would deny exist, but barely suggests an actual way to deal with them.

    Hey, I resemble that remark! O:-) And I certainly don't deny the cracks exist...
    DarthDimi wrote: »

    I don't know if I have to cry or laugh anymore.

    If in four years from now it turns out you were right, I'll happily concede that much. However, I think that the voters in minority, the ones who through this fabulous democratic system put Trump in office, will rather have learned the phrase, "we didn't know"...

    My solution is to sing. And quite frankly, in four years, I'm not certain that any of us will be here any more. I'll be happy to be proven wrong. If I'm right, I promise not to say "Told ya so!"
    Germanlady wrote: »
    But nevermind, the truth comes out more and more until even the last person has understood, how this game is played out. There will be a time, when you will remember me. "Oh, GL was right after all"

    Jawohl, mein GL!

  • edited November 2016 Posts: 1,661
    Trump says he wants to unite the country but given the anti-Trump protests I can't see him achieving much unity. Well, not in the short term. Worrying times for the US but we have to give Mr Trump a chance.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    fjdinardo wrote: »
    I haven't been on here since before election night. WOOT WOOT my guy won!!!! Im very happy Trump won. I voted for him and i am very proud of it. The GOP controls everything!!!
    Yes, but, uhhh, when things go south, who will they have to blame-?
  • edited November 2016 Posts: 6,601
    Dimi, it doesn't matter so much, if and how he is going to solve it - right now!. Seems, he wants to try though. What matters is - that he gets it out there for people to acknowledge. Most people don't realise, just HOW corrupt and perfide their system AND ours (there is no difference) is. For it to change its NECESSARY, absolutely necessary, that first and foremost people understand, what's going on. If he gets nothing done besides getting this message out - over and over, he has done a better job already then all of our corrupt politicians together. He or anybody cannot change this alone. What he or anybody out there needs - is the peoples understanding, so they get his back. He is the chance to change through understanding that all of these accusations are true. That THIS is how politics are done these days and forever. In all countries more or less.

    I am at a loss understanding, how people cannot see this. Pointing his finger towards them for the sake of truth AND of course, for winning votes and turning it in their wounds doesn't make his own shortcomings any better - but it proofs, he has either the guts or his ego has the illusion, he can't be harmed. Doesn't matter - its exactly what we need NOW! Lets say, he is the one, who is preparing a change in trying to give people the chance to see behind the curtains. Lets see, how long he is going to survive this. But they already lost. If he keeps talking, they (the corrupt elite) are damned, if they kill him, the same.

    Kennedy tried to screw with the kartell for the better of his country - you know the outcome. They got away with it back then. I doubt they will this time. We will see.
  • fanbond123 wrote: »
    Trump says he wants to unite the country but given the anti-Trump protests I can't see him achieving much unity. Well, not in the short term. Worrying times for the US but we have to give Mr Trump a chance.

    We'll give him as much chance as he & the Republican party gave President Obama. What goes around comes around.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited November 2016 Posts: 8,400
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Trump says he wants to unite the country but given the anti-Trump protests I can't see him achieving much unity. Well, not in the short term. Worrying times for the US but we have to give Mr Trump a chance.

    Especially if he can bring peace between US and Russia.

  • Yes, you'd love the peace Red Grant offered James Bond wouldn't you? Look the clip up yourself, I've already moved on.
  • Posts: 6,601
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Trump says he wants to unite the country but given the anti-Trump protests I can't see him achieving much unity. Well, not in the short term. Worrying times for the US but we have to give Mr Trump a chance.

    We'll give him as much chance as he & the Republican party gave President Obama. What goes around comes around.

    The Republicans blocked Obama, but Trump already? Think again.
    Anyway - he will get hell from his own party, especially with those three, who will do a good job in working pro Democrats. So, sleep quietly, he will have the same problems.
  • Posts: 1,631
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Trump says he wants to unite the country but given the anti-Trump protests I can't see him achieving much unity. Well, not in the short term. Worrying times for the US but we have to give Mr Trump a chance.

    We'll give him as much chance as he & the Republican party gave President Obama. What goes around comes around.

    That's about as much of a chance as the current Republican party deserves.

    Unfortunately, that'll mean 4-8 more years of nothing getting done, but it's not as if the Republicans didn't bring it on themselves. Of course, those that will suffer are the American people, but our politicians don't give a crap about us.

This discussion has been closed.