The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Seriously guys are you not embarassed and disgusted by Donald Trump? and please don't give me that line that he's saying what he does to get publicity and he'll calm down once he's the nominee.

    The footage of him condoning violence against protester is utterly disgusting and now this they'll be riots if he doesn't get the nominee, the man should be arrested.

    I know people who have opposing poltical views can be friends but this has gone to far this man is promoting hatred and violence and most of what he's supposedly good at is lies anyway, the man is not a good business man it's all hype purported by the man himself and it appears many Americans have bought into this.

    Anyone that sees this man as a good idea I'm sorry I have to question your decency as a human being this is comparable to someone supporting the British National Party over in the UK and I assure you I have no problem claiming those people are lacking basic humanity, a vote for Drumpf would make me think the same thing.

    Whether you think some of his policies are sound for the economy or not his character is seriously flawed and surely the people of America should see that shouldn't they?

    I had to ask because to us back in the UK we can't believe a reality TV star billionaire with highly questionable ethics is in this position.

    What he said. Here in the USA there are many of us that feel the same. I used to wonder how a civilized nation like Germany in the 1930s could allow a lunatic like Hitler to grab the reins of power. Now I know. I implore all well intended Republicans to vote against this wannabe fuhrer. No more evading the point, no more "Oh fill-in-the-blank is just as bad." Stand for something or you'll fall for anything.
    I will third this.
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »

    And I though attacks couldn't get any lower. Seriously @BondJames.......I didn't expect all this from you.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    bondjames wrote: »

    And I though attacks couldn't get any lower. Seriously @BondJames.......I didn't expect all this from you.
    I wasn't gonna comment on that, but... yeah, it's kind of in keeping with the tone Trump has set, I guess.
  • Posts: 11,119
    chrisisall wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    And I though attacks couldn't get any lower. Seriously @BondJames.......I didn't expect all this from you.
    I wasn't gonna comment on that, but... yeah, it's kind of in keeping with the tone Trump has set, I guess.

    It saddens me. If this is the new kind of politics, then I stop writing entire historical reflections. It will fall on deaf ears....whatever I have to say. Hence I usually don't post in here.

    But hell, that's democracy too: Making people like me scared too, so they don't even go voting. Tactics like these should stay in the pre-World War 2 era.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »

    And I though attacks couldn't get any lower. Seriously @BondJames.......I didn't expect all this from you.
    Really? I'm responsible for the ads now?

    That is the new Trump ad that is running in certain areas and that is telegraphing early one of the approaches that Trump will take against Hillary in the General. I mentioned that quite early on this thread.

    It's easy to dislike Trump but there is nothing different about that particular ad and numerous other ads that have been run by both parties in previous and current electoral cycles.

    The only difference this time around is it's not being sanctioned by political donor class money.
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dropout-Candidates-1200x1025.jpg

    Presidential-Candidates-Billionaires1-1200x1025.jpg

    I think the chart isn't mentioning that Donald Trump himself IS the very result of corporate America. He IS a billionaire. He obviously doesn't need donors.

    'Donor' has become such a dirty word. But the real dirty words should be 'buying yourself into a contest'. I find that way worse.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Trump so far has proven to be smarter than all of his competitors.

    He is essentially 'disrupting' the entire political system in the US, similar to how a business disrupts its competitors. Changing the rules of the game.

    Yes, he is a billionaire, and a rather intelligent one at that. I don't hold that against him. He can be beaten, but the approaches taken to date by his competitors to try and oust him have been laughable and more than anything show their own incompetence to the voters.

    The American political cycle every four years is a media manipulated farce, and this year, finally, the whole thing falls apart and the rules will be rewriten as a result, no matter what happens in the General election.

    One gets exactly what one deserves.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    The only thing evil needs to triumph is for good people to do nothing.

    I'm VOTING.
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    And I though attacks couldn't get any lower. Seriously @BondJames.......I didn't expect all this from you.
    Really? I'm responsible for the ads now?

    That is the new Trump ad that is running in certain areas and that is telegraphing early one of the approaches that Trump will take against Hillary in the General. I mentioned that quite early on this thread.

    It's easy to dislike Trump but there is nothing different about that particular ad and numerous other ads that have been run by both parties in previous and current electoral cycles.

    The only difference this time around is it's not being sanctioned by political donor class money.

    It has nothing to do with disliking someone easily. The dislike comes from pure utter sadness and necessity. And that dislike is well-explained without too much ease. Look @BondJames . I respect your political views. But I disagree with them. Let's leave it at that.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    And I though attacks couldn't get any lower. Seriously @BondJames.......I didn't expect all this from you.
    Really? I'm responsible for the ads now?

    That is the new Trump ad that is running in certain areas and that is telegraphing early one of the approaches that Trump will take against Hillary in the General. I mentioned that quite early on this thread.

    It's easy to dislike Trump but there is nothing different about that particular ad and numerous other ads that have been run by both parties in previous and current electoral cycles.

    The only difference this time around is it's not being sanctioned by political donor class money.

    It has nothing to do with disliking someone easily. The dislike comes from pure utter sadness and necessity. And that dislike is well-explained without too much ease. Look @BondJames . I respect your political views. But I disagree with them. Let's leave it at that.
    I admire your emotions. You don't know what my political views are.

    I respect the choice of the American electorate, whatever it may be. So far, they are cleaning shop.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Political discourse in Heaven
    Walter Cronkite:
    "....so, if you hadn't died in 1973, which political party would you have been voting for?"
    Bruce Lee:
    "In which elections?"
  • Posts: 1,631
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Seriously guys are you not embarassed and disgusted by Donald Trump?

    I am, very much so.

    I'm also rather distressed that, in a nation of 318.9 million (as of 2014), the only two people I have a choice in voting for for the presidency are Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. And that the process to get these two abysmal candidates to the general election has been turned into a reality TV show by the likes of CNN, FOX News, and MSNBC.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    dalton wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Seriously guys are you not embarassed and disgusted by Donald Trump?

    I am, very much so.

    I'm also rather distressed that, in a nation of 318.9 million (as of 2014), the only two people I have a choice in voting for for the presidency are Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. And that the process to get these two abysmal candidates to the general election has been turned into a reality TV show by the likes of CNN, FOX News, and MSNBC.
    On this we totally agree.
    :)>-
  • Posts: 1,631
    Sadly, the only saving grace this election could have would be for something to happen to cause Bernie Sanders to feel as though he's been very much wronged in the process and mount his own third party campaign in addition to the Republicans abandoning Trump and mounting their own "third-party" campaign, resulting in four viable candidates for the presidency.

    Such a move would create absolute chaos, but it's the only thing I can see saving this election. For those of us who lean Republican, in an election as important as this one, to have our only choice between voting for Hillary Clinton, who has said that we are all her enemies, and someone spewing the kind of racist and bigoted rhetoric that Donald Trump has, is very distressing.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    @dalton, IMHO one should never lean Republican nor Democrat. Leaning conservative or progressive is fine, but tying one's self to a party is a recipe for a damaged calm.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 1,631
    What I meant was leaning conservative. The problem is that the parties have become so polarized that leaning liberal or conservative generally means having to pick between the two.

    I have voted Democrat before, a few times in fact. Voted Kerry in 2004, although I very much regret that vote now, and have voted for a Democratic Senator more than once.

    EDIT: You also have the problem where it's hard to vote for the liberal-leaning party when they make people who think like you out to be the villain, which Hillary has done (with her "enemy" comment in the debate about Republicans). Now, the establishment on the right does this as well, so I'm sure that there are liberal-leaning people who feel exactly the same way, justifiably so, on the other side. That's one of the biggest problems with our political system at the moment, aside from the rise of Donald Trump, although the two are connected.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    GOOD! You sound like you have a balanced sensibility. Like Bruce Lee said, choose what works, drop the rest, even if you feel drawn to it for whatever reason (paraphrase).
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 6,601
    It doesn't really matter, WHO will be the Republican candidat. As long as NONE of them wins.
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Seriously guys are you not embarassed and disgusted by Donald Trump? and please don't give me that line that he's saying what he does to get publicity and he'll calm down once he's the nominee.

    The footage of him condoning violence against protester is utterly disgusting and now this they'll be riots if he doesn't get the nominee, the man should be arrested.

    I know people who have opposing poltical views can be friends but this has gone to far this man is promoting hatred and violence and most of what he's supposedly good at is lies anyway, the man is not a good business man it's all hype purported by the man himself and it appears many Americans have bought into this.

    Anyone that sees this man as a good idea I'm sorry I have to question your decency as a human being this is comparable to someone supporting the British National Party over in the UK and I assure you I have no problem claiming those people are lacking basic humanity, a vote for Drumpf would make me think the same thing.

    Whether you think some of his policies are sound for the economy or not his character is seriously flawed and surely the people of America should see that shouldn't they?

    I had to ask because to us back in the UK we can't believe a reality TV star billionaire with highly questionable ethics is in this position.




    All of this. It really doesn't speak for the Americans state of mind. Sorry to say. Seems sometimes, they don't have any brain cells left once someone give them a show to enjoy. The louder, the better. Sure there are the others, who don't support that, but loud often wins.

    You already gave us "Daddy look, I can do it better" Bush. That's enough for some centuries.
  • Posts: 6,601
    BTW - and I am NOT offended by mentioning Germans and Hitler - but there was one significant difference. Hitler didn't show his true face for a long time. He actually did good at the start. While you know exactly what you get with Trump, which makes it all the more disturbing.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    People overestimate the "evil" in Trump. He is all show and no substance.
    He just consequently continues the path that the Republicans have started under Newt Gingrich 20 years ago.

    The Republicans don't give a damn about democracy. That's the result now.
    I hope Trump manages to destroy the Republicans.

    If the Reps ever want a President again they will have to rebuild the party from scratch with new people.
  • The fact that Trump inflames the violent impulses in his followers over & over again, while insisting that he bears no responsibility for their actions, leads me to believe that you are in error regarding the evil in Trump, @BondJasonBond006. His most recent pronouncement, that there will be rioting in the streets if he is denied the Republican nomination, was one step too far in my mind. It won't be HIS doing, of course, no no, can't blame him...he's just saying...

    And so now I'm just saying: this is a truly evil man and absolutely MUST be rejected by all who hold democracy dear. He is a classic "strong man" leader, the kind that leads inevitably to totalitarian rule, and it is a shame that the once Grand but now Grotesque Old Party has come so close to embracing this odious individual.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    The fact that Trump inflames the violent impulses in his followers over & over again, while insisting that he bears no responsibility for their actions, leads me to believe that you are in error regarding the evil in Trump, @BondJasonBond006. His most recent pronouncement, that there will be rioting in the streets if he is denied the Republican nomination, was one step too far in my mind. It won't be HIS doing, of course, no no, can't blame him...he's just saying...

    And so now I'm just saying: this is a truly evil man and absolutely MUST be rejected by all who hold democracy dear. He is a classic "strong man" leader, the kind that leads inevitably to totalitarian rule, and it is a shame that the once Grand but now Grotesque Old Party has come so close to embracing this odious individual.

    The big problem with that is: If it's not Trump it's Cruz and that would be really dangerous.

    Anyway, no matter who will finally be Clinton's opponent, Clinton will win in a landslide victory.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    I was watching 'Die Hard: With A Vengeance' yesterday, and I noticed that both Trump and Hillary are joked about in the film. 21 years later, they are the 2 frontrunners in the Presidential election.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I was watching 'Die Hard: With A Vengeance' yesterday, and I noticed that both Trump and Hillary are joked about in the film. 21 years later, they are the 2 frontrunners in the Presidential election.

    At least it does not hurt the quality of the movie.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    SaintMark wrote: »
    I was watching 'Die Hard: With A Vengeance' yesterday, and I noticed that both Trump and Hillary are joked about in the film. 21 years later, they are the 2 frontrunners in the Presidential election.

    At least it does not hurt the quality of the movie.

    Indeed it doesn't. :) Still a classic.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Germanlady wrote: »
    BTW - and I am NOT offended by mentioning Germans and Hitler - but there was one significant difference. Hitler didn't show his true face for a long time. He actually did good at the start. While you know exactly what you get with Trump, which makes it all the more disturbing.

    I'm afraid you're mistaken. 'Mein Kampf'written in jail in 1924 is very clear on what position the Jews are in according to Adolf. His rallies were often accompanied by violence too. The reason so many Germans, including Jews, turned a blind eye is because they thought he wouldn't be that bad in the end, and when he took power, he managed to up the economy. So things were 'getting better', even though his agression got stronger day after day.

    Maybe Drumpf isn't as intelligent as hitler was, but he cultivates violence like the nazi's an fascists did. He's pointing at one group of people who 'threaten' the 'All American dream', and he wants them to be thrown out of the country. Now I am, as a European historian, very reluctant to compare historical figueres, especially those as bad as AH, to modern day persons, but I can tell you this: Drupf is a danger to the free world, not only to the US, but her neighbours and friends as well.
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »

    And I though attacks couldn't get any lower. Seriously @BondJames.......I didn't expect all this from you.
    Really? I'm responsible for the ads now?

    That is the new Trump ad that is running in certain areas and that is telegraphing early one of the approaches that Trump will take against Hillary in the General. I mentioned that quite early on this thread.

    It's easy to dislike Trump but there is nothing different about that particular ad and numerous other ads that have been run by both parties in previous and current electoral cycles.

    The only difference this time around is it's not being sanctioned by political donor class money.

    It has nothing to do with disliking someone easily. The dislike comes from pure utter sadness and necessity. And that dislike is well-explained without too much ease. Look @BondJames . I respect your political views. But I disagree with them. Let's leave it at that.
    I admire your emotions. You don't know what my political views are.

    I respect the choice of the American electorate, whatever it may be. So far, they are cleaning shop.
    If cleaning up shop means getting a dictator in power, you might want to reconsider. This man has Ceasar (declaring the Republic as obsolete) and Caligula (mad as a hatter) combined in one. Yes, the US democratic system is broke. But do you really want it to end through a man buying his power with the wealth his father accumulated? Is that the way to go? You mentioned before he was an 'intelligent' businessman. I see little intelligence. He may be good at negotiating deals, but that doesn't make one an intelligent person. One of my best friends is a very accomplished businessman, but he'll never consider himself intelligent. On the contrary, he claims those who are lag a step behind, as business is all about doing, not about thinking. Well, if that's going to be the US politics in the coming four years, be prepared for some very, very ugly wars with more and more people hating the US. And losing all allies in the process. I know many Americans think little of the world outside their borders (I've heard this so many times when I was on that side of the pond), but in the end you'll find that standing alone against everyone will destroy your economy, and your 'dream', for whatever it stood for in the first place.
    Think of it this way: China now has the most dollars outside of the US. They hence have the power to throw the US in recess by just dumping all those dollars on the market. The Chinese have 1 billion people more then the US have. If it ever comes to war, are you so certain you will win?
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 6,601
    Drupf is a danger to the free world, not only to the US, but her neighbours and friends as well.

    What I said in one of my very first quotes and you don't have to be a historian nor have to be "into" politics to know that. You just have to look at the guy. This is a human nature at its very worst.

    You're right about "Mein Kampf" Commander, but people tend to turn a blind eye, BUT at some point should learn to do better.

    NOW seems like the right time.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @CommanderRoss, as I said above, I respect the choice of the American electorate.

    The American political process is a confrontational and competitive (probably the most competitive) system. It has always been that way. It is designed to weed out the weak and reinforce the strong. It is designed to ultimately elect the most authentic of the choices on offer. It will do so again this year. That much is inevitable. It has already dispatched several 'once favoured' candidates who have shown through their own actions that they aren't up to the task of leading the US (Bush, Rubio, Walker etc. etc.)

    One can argue that the candidates on offer are not the best for the nation (and that is indeed true) but that is a completely different discussion. These are the choices currently available. Hopefully as a result of this election, much needed changes are made to the way elections are funded and most importantly, commented on in the media. The media machine focuses on spectacle rather than substance. Everything is now soundbite entertainment for the ADD smartphone crowd rather than intelligent discourse. That didn't begin with this election. It has been that way (increasingly so) for decades.

    Regarding Trump: He is intelligent. Extremely so. I have followed his career since I was a teenager. He is also tenacious and ruthless. True, he is more of a doer than a thinker. That is his style.

    I don't agree with everything he says by any means. I do however agree with some of what he says, including about trade deals, manufacturing job losses, unnecessary illegal wars, government waste etc. and I admire that he has the balls to say it. No other candidate has articulated it as well. Sanders is much better on income disparities, but on the other issues, Trump has been clearer. The others (including Clinton) can't talk about those things because they are a part of the problem and are in fact funded by the problem.

    As I've said before on this thread, Trump has to show soon that there is more to him than what has got him here so far. Those who know him (including Clinton - who knows him very well despite her comments to the contrary) know that he is much more than his campaign has been to date.

    He hasn't shown that side yet, because he is a first class tactician, and he knows that he has a 'red meat' primary to win first - one in which he is single handedly destroying a cancerous 'establishment'. He has $mm of special interest money (from his own party) being thrown against him to stop him. If he can win that battle (and it's still an 'if') against the misguided Romneys and others, then I expect him to show more gravitas on the issues and in his approach.

    If not, then as I said earlier on this thread, he should be beaten, and I expect him to be in the General election. The electorate, ultimately and after this arduous and showman process, usually gets it right.
  • Posts: 7,507
    The fascinating, bizarre and very self destructing thing about the American electoral process, is that it basically has nothing to do with politics. The American people doesn´t vot for a preferred political system or concrete political actions, they vote for characters. Its pretty ludicrous for a country so proud of its "democracy" that the candidates can get away with making no concrete political arguments, and not representing any actual plans, rather just claiming to be a tough guy with undocumented economical expertise. "Trust me, I am succesful and strong, I know what to do." In most other western countries such a campaign would be unthinkable. American elections is basically all about populism and manipulation of the masses. It doesn´t deserve to be idolized at all (yes, I am looking at you, @bondjames).
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @jobo, I'm not idolizing anything.

    As I said, the primary process is one thing. It is fought on one level. It has always been that way on both sides of the fence. That is a function of the process. If you have a problem with it, blame the process. Don't come out of the woodwork now and blame the product of the process like many are doing. Democracy can give you candidates that you don't want and those that you want. You have to accept the good with the bad and understand why such a thing is happening. Not insult it. Not insult the voters.

    The General election is fought on different grounds. If Trump doesn't elevate his rhetoric (assuming he is the nominee) then he will lose. I have faith in the process. I suggest the fear mongers out there also have some faith. It is messy and it is far from perfect, but it works more than not on the presidential level. It is on the congressional level that it is completely broken.

    One thing is certain no matter who wins. America is not going to be there for the world in the same way that it has been in the past. There are a lot of problems to be fixed at home and a new world order is taking shape (and it has been going on for some time, including under Obama).

    PS: Some have been making Hitler comparisons. Hitler came about in Germany for a reason. So is nationalism that is becoming rampant throughout Western countries. It's Trump today, it could be someone far more dangerous tomorrow. The source of the problem (economic malaise and a lack of care for those in the middle) needs to be addressed quickly.
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