The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    TripAces wrote: »
    My point is that the electoral college is a joke. As long as that is in place, millions of Americans' votes don't actually count for anything.
    There is a reason it is done that way and it is democratic and constitutional. The idea being one must get representation from a larger base cross country to have a more representative president, and the supramajority obtained by the 'winner take all' mechanism of the electoral college on election day allows for this.

    Gerrymandering is a different discussion.

    Wikipedia:
    "Opponents of the Electoral College claim that such outcomes do not logically follow the normative concept of how a democratic system should function. One view is that the Electoral College violates the principle of political equality, since presidential elections are not decided by the one-person one-vote principle.[81] Outcomes of this sort are attributable to the federal nature of the system. Supporters of the Electoral College argue that candidates must build a popular base that is geographically broader and more diverse in voter interests. This feature is not a logical consequence of having intermediate elections of Presidents, but rather the winner-takes-all method of allocating each state's slate of electors. Allocation of electors in proportion to the state's popular vote could reduce this effect."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    TripAces wrote: »
    My point is that the electoral college is a joke. As long as that is in place, millions of Americans' votes don't actually count for anything.
    Who came up with that nonsense anyway?
  • "The Founding Fathers."
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    "The Founding Fathers."
    Fook 'em.
  • Posts: 7,507
    The electoral college is basically there to limit the effect of democracy. That was the point from the start. The founding fathers weren't prepared to give the people all the power just yet, so they made sure the real decision making was kept in a small electorate of "elevated" people. The fact that the practice still lives on today illustrates perfectly how the US is "falling behind" the rest of the democratic world in a reactionary, conservative sense, and how their prided democracy is far less evolved than in most other western countries...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    So... when peeps yell about the leftist elite, they are forgetting that the 'elite' were ALWAYS to be the ones in control, be it left or right.
    *sigh*
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    So... when peeps yell about the leftist elite, they are forgetting that the 'elite' were ALWAYS to be the ones in control, be it left or right.
    *sigh*

    Welcome to the real world.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    chrisisall wrote: »
    So... when peeps yell about the leftist elite, they are forgetting that the 'elite' were ALWAYS to be the ones in control, be it left or right.
    *sigh*

    Welcome to the real world.
    I should have taken the blue pill...
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Russia is more democratic than the US. Hard pill to swallow.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    chrisisall wrote: »
    "Whoever wins, WE LOSE!"

    Exactly. Unfortunately, people like Bernie Sanders don't stand a chance in this rigged and corrupt system.

    I don't think you have to worry about Trump, he won't win. He is just a bogeyman, who's role is to make people feel a relief when he loses the election.

    Clinton will be the next president. She was already chosen by those who really choose.

    mark+twain.png


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    The above post has been flagged for truth.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    truth.jpg
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Absolute.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Wait! A Black man was elected- TWICE!
    We cannot lose faith!
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    The Force is strong with him.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Most definitely.

    SandersJediMemeDpkjpg-3668337_lg.jpg
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Help us Bernie-San Kenobi; you're our only hope.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 3,566
    bondjames wrote: »
    Remember 'Occupy Wall Street'? Do you remember how fast those peaceful but leaderless protests were shut down. Everywhere. Why? That is what the people who run things are afraid of. The voice of the people on the lower rung of the ladder. Ironic don't you think? I remember Obama himself being negative towards them. Why? Were they violent? He was afraid of the movement of people who don't have a shot, and the young who have limited prospects.

    Speaking as someone who took part in the Occupy protests in Oakland CA, perhaps I can shed some light on this point. The protests were not "shut down" by the heavy hand of authority, rather they fizzled out due to the leaderless nature of the Occupy movement. Additionally, they were not entirely non-violent. While the Occupy movement liked to call itself “The 99%” I’d estimate that 99% of that 99% was indeed non-violent -- but there was a small element in the movement that liked to call itself “The Black Block.” They advocated forcing societal change by any means necessary. That is: they were essentially a small group of nihilists who may have fancied themselves anarchists, but in fact they were nothing more than hooligans out to have a good time by trashing stuff. Stores & buildings, parked cars, whatever. They wore masks at marches and gave the Occupy movement a bad rep that was impossible to overcome. Because of the leaderless nature of the Occupy movement, no one could come out and say, “Violence has no part in our movement, these people are not a part of our message.” And so well-intended people like myself simply stopped going to Occupy events. A movement that could very well have seen hundreds of thousands of people in the streets on a regular basis became a “whatever happened to?” simply because the vast majority of the people are not up for a violent revolution. They want to see these things done peacefully. I’m thinking this is a point that Donald (“There’ll be riots in the streets, not that it’ll be my fault or anything”) Trump may not have realized. When you've got 10,000 people in the streets and 99% of them are protesting peacefully, then you've also got 100 violent idiots on the street giving your movement the blackest of eyes.


  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Very true @BeatlesSansEarmuffs.

    The Donald is a gambler, and he's also a cynic. He's waging heavily on his belief that the majority of this country are idiots, racists & misogynists. Let's prove him wrong.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Speaking as someone who took part in the Occupy protests in Oakland CA, perhaps I can shed some light on this point. The protests were not "shut down" by the heavy hand of authority, rather they fizzled out due to the leaderless nature of the Occupy movement. Additionally, they were not entirely non-violent. While the Occupy movement liked to call itself “The 99%” I’d estimate that 99% of that 99% was indeed non-violent -- but there was a small element in the movement that liked to call itself “The Black Block.” They advocated forcing societal change by any means necessary. That is: they were essentially a small group of nihilists who may have fancied themselves anarchists, but in fact they were nothing more than hooligans out to have a good time by trashing stuff. Stores & buildings, parked cars, whatever. They wore masks at marches and gave the Occupy movement a bad rep that was impossible to overcome. Because of the leaderless nature of the Occupy movement, no one could come out and say, “Violence has no part in our movement, these people are not a part of our message.” And so well-intended people like myself simply stopped going to Occupy events. A movement that could very well have seen hundreds of thousands of people in the streets on a regular basis became a “whatever happened to?” simply because the vast majority of the people are not up for a violent revolution. They want to see these things done peacefully. I’m thinking this is a point that Donald (“There’ll be riots in the streets, not that it’ll be my fault or anything”) Trump may not have realized. When you've got 10,000 people in the streets and 99% of them are protesting peacefully, then you've also got 100 violent idiots on the street giving your movement the blackest of eyes.


    Time and time again, in every western country, it has turned out that these instigators of violence have been infiltrators put there by the state itself-police agents provoking exactly what you just described.
  • edited March 2016 Posts: 3,566
    Speaking as someone who took part in the Occupy protests in Oakland CA, perhaps I can shed some light on this point. The protests were not "shut down" by the heavy hand of authority, rather they fizzled out due to the leaderless nature of the Occupy movement. Additionally, they were not entirely non-violent. While the Occupy movement liked to call itself “The 99%” I’d estimate that 99% of that 99% was indeed non-violent -- but there was a small element in the movement that liked to call itself “The Black Block.” They advocated forcing societal change by any means necessary. That is: they were essentially a small group of nihilists who may have fancied themselves anarchists, but in fact they were nothing more than hooligans out to have a good time by trashing stuff. Stores & buildings, parked cars, whatever. They wore masks at marches and gave the Occupy movement a bad rep that was impossible to overcome. Because of the leaderless nature of the Occupy movement, no one could come out and say, “Violence has no part in our movement, these people are not a part of our message.” And so well-intended people like myself simply stopped going to Occupy events. A movement that could very well have seen hundreds of thousands of people in the streets on a regular basis became a “whatever happened to?” simply because the vast majority of the people are not up for a violent revolution. They want to see these things done peacefully. I’m thinking this is a point that Donald (“There’ll be riots in the streets, not that it’ll be my fault or anything”) Trump may not have realized. When you've got 10,000 people in the streets and 99% of them are protesting peacefully, then you've also got 100 violent idiots on the street giving your movement the blackest of eyes.


    Time and time again, in every western country, it has turned out that these instigators of violence have been infiltrators put there by the state itself-police agents provoking exactly what you just described.

    Do you think the Trump-eteers -- the folks who have been getting physical with anti-Trump protestors -- are government agents then? Or would that be the anti-Trump protestors themselves? In either case, I think you misunderestimate the genuine passions felt on both sides. Sometimes a stupid thug is just a stupid thug. I'm not denying that government agents have at times acted as provacateurs -- the demise of the Black Panther party demonstrated that point beyond a doubt -- but even paranoids have real enemies, and sometimes our Beast Friends can be our Wurst Enemas.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Of course, people get carried away. It isn t the case every time, but more often than you think.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Sounds like what's happening to the feminist movement.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Thanks for that info, @BeatlesSansEarmuffs; and I agree with your assessment of that.
  • Posts: 6,601
    What about his take on global warming and environment as a whole? According to this nut case, its ALL just natural causes and nothing really to worry about or to do.

    Those here, who support him - can you seriously vote for a man, who will sink his teeth in our planet even further and will bring it dowen even faster?

    If he was wonderful in all other aspects (which he is far from, of course), that alone should be enough to not vote for him.

    The Industrie will love it though. Oil drilling and whatnot without a care.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I'm sorry @Germanlady, but much as I have concerns about climate change (as we all should), I can assure you of one thing, namely that the 'American election of 2016 will not be fought on the subject of climate change'. It will be fought on perceived leadership & strength, the economy & national security. It will also not be fought on social issues imho.

    Unfortunately, asking Americans to take the lead on climate change is like asking China to take the lead on human rights abuses. That is better left to countries like your own, who far more advanced on this (including on the use of solar power and electricity usage). The US will only pay attention once a catastrophe occurs.

    Energy Efficiency Scores and ranking by country – International Energy Efficiency Scorecard
    Screenshot-2014-07-18-08.02.01.png
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Huh...Switzerland is not even in that chart??
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited March 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Yes, I noticed that @BondJasonBond006. They are not even mentioned on the aceee.org (American Council for an Energy Efficient Economy) website. Surprising. Perhaps they did not provide the data to assess. I would imagine countries like Switzerland, Norway, Denmark, Sweden etc. score quite high in this area.
  • Posts: 315
    jobo wrote: »
    The fact that the practice still lives on today illustrates perfectly how the US is "falling behind" the rest of the democratic world in a reactionary, conservative sense, and how their prided democracy is far less evolved than in most other western countries...

    And what western countries are more evolved in their democracies? Admittedly the U. S. democracy is still a work in progress, but we've only been at it for a little more than 200 years. Yes, we haven't elected a woman as President, but that will change in November. We did elect a black man. Baby steps.
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