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The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    Trump's rhetoric has all the halmarks of another 'McCathy witch hunt', he'll set the USA back 60 years.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    It does more and more - so much so, that I'm wondering that he might be subconsciously trying to trip himself up. I thought that months ago. May be true.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,359
    Trump is following the Justin Bieber playbook. When falling out of the public spotlight, do something incredibly stupid and racist to stay relevant.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited June 2016 Posts: 11,119
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    You know, I earlier mentioned in a topic, beware of Trump's 'freedom-for-just-his-dearest-few'. Well, look what happened:
    http://money.cnn.com/2016/06/13/media/donald-trump-washington-post-credentials/index.html?sr=fbCNN061416donald-trump-washington-post-credentials0403AMVODtopLink&linkId=25512186

    Mr Trump revoked the press accreditation of one of the better newspapers in the USA, the one that takes great pride in research journalism: The Washington Post. You only have to imagine what happens if Donald Trump actually IS president and his press secretary blacklists all those newspapers that he 'doesn't like'.

    Oowh, and I understand that some supporters of other presidential candidates felt 'left out' by the so called 'mainstream media'. They were too 'biased', and we're reporting the primaries in an unfair way. To those supporters I ask this question: Is Trump's way the solution? Shall we then blacklist those media outlets who are being accused of bias?

    Regardless of that, real freedom is what should count in a free, democratic society, of which the free press are often called 'the last guardians of democracy'. So let's support that, and not just freedom for Trump's lucky few.
    SpectreNumberTwo wrote: »
    Trump's rhetoric has all the halmarks of another 'McCathy witch hunt', he'll set the USA back 60 years.

    Another McCarthy. That's the kind of historical comparison I would have made as well. Just watch the very good film "Trumbo"....it gives you an idea of what real fear mongers are.

    Or what about seeing Trump now as a near-perfect combo of George Wallace (openly racist presidential candidate for the Democratic Party, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Wallace_presidential_campaign,_1968) and Richard Nixon (what later seemed to be one of the most undemocratic presidents in American history, due to Watergate). This article gives quite a good historical comparison. Sadly, the Trump-campaign didn't respond to these comparisons: http://www.npr.org/2016/04/22/475172438/donald-trump-and-george-wallace-riding-the-rage

    150927_POL_TrumpWallace-03.jpg.CROP.original-original.jpg
    Wallace-68-letpeoplespeak.jpg

    In all honesty? I think the last couple of days have severely hurt the Trump campaign. The GOP needs to have more influx of African-American and Latino voters. Trump's message in which he blatantly paints off all Muslims as terrorists, might have been the final incentive to let all Latino's and African-Americans flock to Clinton's column.
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    Seen 'Trumbo' excellent film.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited June 2016 Posts: 11,119
    SpectreNumberTwo wrote: »
    Seen 'Trumbo' excellent film.

    Yes, and that movie shows what can happen once you bring people like Joseph McCarthy -The Communist Chaser- close to power. He destroyed the lives of countless families that were labeled 'communists', politicians and filmmakers alike. From prison sentences for 'commies', until dramatic suicides, he was adamant in destroying real freedom. I fear to think what would have happened if this man was elected president. Not to mention George Wallace.

    In any case, I just read this article.....and regardless what you think of Clinton, her words seem way more nuanced and are more carefully choses:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2016/06/13/clinton_trumps_anti-muslim_talk_increases_us_risks.html
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    There is just one problem with all this kind of back & forth rhetoric, we've heard it all before what's needed is some solid action.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    SpectreNumberTwo wrote: »
    There is just one problem with all this kind of back & forth rhetoric, we've heard it all before what's needed is some solid action.

    What the USA needs foremost is a massive change in the political system. Basically, the USA is a 2-party-oligarchy right now.

    It has to become easier for 3rd and 4th parties to join the political arena. Chairmen of the GOP and DNC need to be more strict in allowing people to run for president, if they simply don't meet the party agenda. Donald Trump is no GOP-candidate. Instead he should have created a new political party or revive the American Independent Party. Same for Bernie Sanders. He's no real Democrat. He is a socialist. He should have run for the American Socialist Party or create a more fancier name for such a party, like "Let's Go!".

    Secondly, get rid of that stupid electoral vote system. Or at least get rid of the "winner takes all" system, so that electoral votes are equally distributed to 1st placed, 2nd placed, 3rd placed and 4th placed party.

    Create also an option were certain factions within the Congress and Senate can more easily secede from the party doctrine. It is possible in the Dutch democracy.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    SpectreNumberTwo wrote: »
    There is just one problem with all this kind of back & forth rhetoric, we've heard it all before what's needed is some solid action.

    I'll go out & steal some atomic bombs right away, Number Two. Gas up the Disco Volante!

  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited June 2016 Posts: 11,119
    Please take some time in watching Obama's speech from today (especially from 10min 45sec onwards and 12min 47sec onwards):


    I have to say......when it comes to facts, honesty and nuanced wordings, I will greatly miss president Obama :-(.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,827
    Me too.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Me too.

    There seems to be a lot of discussion about unity within the Democratic Party, especially since Bernie Sanders is rallying his base of democratic socialist voters, who tend to dislike Hillary Clinton.

    But by all means, that kind of division is at the moment nothing compared to the destruction of the entire Republican Party. GOP-leaders at The Hill are ignoring every comment regarding Trump's latest barrage of lies and insults during his speech about Muslims. And the party officials that do respond, are starting to openly blast Trump, including the GOP chairman Reince Priebus, Chairman of the Senate Committee of Foreign Affairs GOP senator Bob Corker, Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, GOP senator Lindsey Graham.

    If the Democratic Party is facing unity issues, than the GOP is facing a complete unity meltdown:
    http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2016-election/after-orlando-republican-party-unity-behind-trump-grows-more-elusive-n592266

    In fact, the Democratic Party seems to be more unified in attacking Donald Trump, as both Obama, Clinton and Sanders now openly unleash a coordinated barrage against Trump:
    http://www.politico.com/story/2016/06/democrats-donald-trump-dangerous-224324

    The consequences are already visible in some recent polls, that now have Hillary Clinton in a double digit lead over Donald Trump:
    http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/articles/2016-06-14/bloomberg-politics-national-poll-june-2016
    -1x-1.png

    Now the big question: Do you think Hillary Clinton can win the US presidential elections in a landslide? And if so, do you think she can surpass the 365 electoral votes that Obama won in 2008?
  • daltondalton
    Posts: 1,631
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    But by all means, that kind of division is at the moment nothing compared to the destruction of the entire Republican Party. GOP-leaders at The Hill are ignoring every comment regarding Trump's latest barrage of lies and insults during his speech about Muslims. And the party officials that do respond, are starting to openly blast Trump, including the GOP chairman Reince Priebus, Chairman of the Senate Committee of Foreign Affairs GOP senator Bob Corker, Speaker of the House Paul Ryan, GOP senator Lindsey Graham.

    Lindsey Graham is pretty much the only Republican out there that has any right to speak out against Trump at this point, as he saw him for what he was all along, a racist and a bigot, and had the courage to call him out on it from the beginning while frauds like Ted Cruz and the rest of them tried to play nice with him or just outright ignored him. I used to despise Graham, but I must say that I came to respect him over the course of his presidential campaign. He at least saw Trump for what he was and went after him for it. Few others among the 16 candidates that opposed Trump can say the same.

    One good thing could come out of this Trump phenomenon: the end of the political careers of Priebus, Paul Ryan, and the rest of the Republicans who embrace Trump and try to excuse his racism and bigotry. I know one thing is for certain, I'm keeping tabs on which Republicans are supporting Trump. In the future, if any of them come run for office on a national level and I have a chance to vote for them, I'll be backing their rival, regardless of who that person is. I would have gladly voted for Paul Ryan for president as late as a year ago, but there's zero chance he'll ever get my vote for that office now.

  • FLeiterFLeiter
    Posts: 315
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    SpectreNumberTwo wrote: »
    There is just one problem with all this kind of back & forth rhetoric, we've heard it all before what's needed is some solid action.

    What the USA needs foremost is a massive change in the political system. Basically, the USA is a 2-party-oligarchy right now.

    It has to become easier for 3rd and 4th parties to join the political arena. Chairmen of the GOP and DNC need to be more strict in allowing people to run for president, if they simply don't meet the party agenda. Donald Trump is no GOP-candidate. Instead he should have created a new political party or revive the American Independent Party. Same for Bernie Sanders. He's no real Democrat. He is a socialist. He should have run for the American Socialist Party or create a more fancier name for such a party, like "Let's Go!".

    Secondly, get rid of that stupid electoral vote system. Or at least get rid of the "winner takes all" system, so that electoral votes are equally distributed to 1st placed, 2nd placed, 3rd placed and 4th placed party.

    Create also an option were certain factions within the Congress and Senate can more easily secede from the party doctrine. It is possible in the Dutch democracy.

    The electoral college was setup to prevent a dictator, crazy person or less than qualified person from earning 50%+ of the popular vote and be elected President. It was also created to give the smaller states a say, rather than being overwhelmed by larger states. Yes, it's a flawed system but would require a Constitutional Amendment to change it.

    It wasn't that long ago that Senators were appointed by the states, women could not vote and African-Americans were considered '3/5 a person'. Progress is slow.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Russia and Syria are far more democratic than the US.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited June 2016 Posts: 11,119
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Russia and Syria are far more democratic than the US.

    That's the most ridiculous argument I've heard in years. Despite all the problems the 2-party system in the USA has to endure, at least politics is shaken up this year. To such an extend that it's only a matter of time that a 3rd and 4th party will rise up. Just look at Spain.

    People can still gather in freedom, organize campaign rallies, and speak out what they want, although lately it's resulting in quite despicable language.

    In Russia it's the other way around. Perhaps you are longing for the more suppressed, less bureaucratic statehood of Russia. Because from the outside Russia looks almost like a wish to come true. But make no mistake, it's far far from a democracy. I always stand by democracy......and even when its very nature is tested tremendously...like it's the case now.

    Read this article. And if you still wish the 'fake' facade and 'fake' stability of an authoritarian regime like Russia, then we know where you stand :-):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

    You know.......although I detest the way referendums are used these days.....as ventilators of anger, neo-nationalism and hate......it's still the purest form of democracy. Democracy doesn't choose sides. It's an instrument. A whimsical, freakish kind of instrument. But better that than an authoritarian regime or dictatorship.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    -Thanks to Brexit, The Bottom will go out of the USD, when the Pound Sterling start to float..and if Mr Trump is the President-he will certainly have difficulties to handle it-You can't leave any bills behind on that One, Mr Trump!
  • LeChiffreLeChiffre
    Posts: 1,548
    The world is in trouble whoever gets in. Never trust a Clinton apart from the birthday card company! And we need 007 to be hired to take out Trump. Madder than Eliot Carver! At least Carver earned his fortune.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    "OO7 in Trouble.."- there You have perhaps the next name of the movie 2+5..!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Double O Trouble
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,331
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Russia and Syria are far more democratic than the US.

    That's the most ridiculous argument I've heard in years. Despite all the problems the 2-party system in the USA has to endure, at least politics is shaken up this year. To such an extend that it's only a matter of time that a 3rd and 4th party will rise up. Just look at Spain.

    People can still gather in freedom, organize campaign rallies, and speak out what they want, although lately it's resulting in quite despicable language.

    In Russia it's the other way around. Perhaps you are longing for the more suppressed, less bureaucratic statehood of Russia. Because from the outside Russia looks almost like a wish to come true. But make no mistake, it's far far from a democracy. I always stand by democracy......and even when its very nature is tested tremendously...like it's the case now.

    Read this article. And if you still wish the 'fake' facade and 'fake' stability of an authoritarian regime like Russia, then we know where you stand :-):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

    You know.......although I detest the way referendums are used these days.....as ventilators of anger, neo-nationalism and hate......it's still the purest form of democracy. Democracy doesn't choose sides. It's an instrument. A whimsical, freakish kind of instrument. But better that than an authoritarian regime or dictatorship.

    That, my dear @Gustav, is called humour.....
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Russia and Syria are far more democratic than the US.

    That's the most ridiculous argument I've heard in years. Despite all the problems the 2-party system in the USA has to endure, at least politics is shaken up this year. To such an extend that it's only a matter of time that a 3rd and 4th party will rise up. Just look at Spain.

    People can still gather in freedom, organize campaign rallies, and speak out what they want, although lately it's resulting in quite despicable language.

    In Russia it's the other way around. Perhaps you are longing for the more suppressed, less bureaucratic statehood of Russia. Because from the outside Russia looks almost like a wish to come true. But make no mistake, it's far far from a democracy. I always stand by democracy......and even when its very nature is tested tremendously...like it's the case now.

    Read this article. And if you still wish the 'fake' facade and 'fake' stability of an authoritarian regime like Russia, then we know where you stand :-):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

    You know.......although I detest the way referendums are used these days.....as ventilators of anger, neo-nationalism and hate......it's still the purest form of democracy. Democracy doesn't choose sides. It's an instrument. A whimsical, freakish kind of instrument. But better that than an authoritarian regime or dictatorship.

    That, my dear @Gustav, is called humour.....

    If you met me in real-life....you can have great fun with me. But I don't see people's faces here :-). I am serious about this subject.
  • BeatlesSansEarmuffsBeatlesSansEarmuffs
    Posts: 3,566
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    CommanderRoss wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Russia and Syria are far more democratic than the US.

    That's the most ridiculous argument I've heard in years. Despite all the problems the 2-party system in the USA has to endure, at least politics is shaken up this year. To such an extend that it's only a matter of time that a 3rd and 4th party will rise up. Just look at Spain.

    People can still gather in freedom, organize campaign rallies, and speak out what they want, although lately it's resulting in quite despicable language.

    In Russia it's the other way around. Perhaps you are longing for the more suppressed, less bureaucratic statehood of Russia. Because from the outside Russia looks almost like a wish to come true. But make no mistake, it's far far from a democracy. I always stand by democracy......and even when its very nature is tested tremendously...like it's the case now.

    Read this article. And if you still wish the 'fake' facade and 'fake' stability of an authoritarian regime like Russia, then we know where you stand :-):
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democracy_Index

    You know.......although I detest the way referendums are used these days.....as ventilators of anger, neo-nationalism and hate......it's still the purest form of democracy. Democracy doesn't choose sides. It's an instrument. A whimsical, freakish kind of instrument. But better that than an authoritarian regime or dictatorship.

    That, my dear @Gustav, is called humour.....

    If you met me in real-life....you can have great fun with me. But I don't see people's faces here :-). I am serious about this subject.

    I missed the (intended?) humor here too...
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Let's talk about the issues.
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    If you've got an issue, get a tissue....... :D
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited June 2016 Posts: 11,119
    .
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,589
    Hillary Clinton will be sworn in as President of the United States in January, 2017.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    FLeiter wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    SpectreNumberTwo wrote: »
    There is just one problem with all this kind of back & forth rhetoric, we've heard it all before what's needed is some solid action.

    What the USA needs foremost is a massive change in the political system. Basically, the USA is a 2-party-oligarchy right now.

    It has to become easier for 3rd and 4th parties to join the political arena. Chairmen of the GOP and DNC need to be more strict in allowing people to run for president, if they simply don't meet the party agenda. Donald Trump is no GOP-candidate. Instead he should have created a new political party or revive the American Independent Party. Same for Bernie Sanders. He's no real Democrat. He is a socialist. He should have run for the American Socialist Party or create a more fancier name for such a party, like "Let's Go!".

    Secondly, get rid of that stupid electoral vote system. Or at least get rid of the "winner takes all" system, so that electoral votes are equally distributed to 1st placed, 2nd placed, 3rd placed and 4th placed party.

    Create also an option were certain factions within the Congress and Senate can more easily secede from the party doctrine. It is possible in the Dutch democracy.

    The electoral college was setup to prevent a dictator, crazy person or less than qualified person from earning 50%+ of the popular vote and be elected President. It was also created to give the smaller states a say, rather than being overwhelmed by larger states. Yes, it's a flawed system but would require a Constitutional Amendment to change it.

    It wasn't that long ago that Senators were appointed by the states, women could not vote and African-Americans were considered '3/5 a person'. Progress is slow.

    Good points.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited June 2016 Posts: 12,480
    I think Hillary will win. I strongly hope so. And no, I don't think she is evil and totally corrupted. The system needs to be improved, definitely. Hillary is far from perfect, but I am not seeing her as the most evil, corrupt politician ever. No.

    I still think Bill Clinton was a good president, by the way. And Obama has been a fine president, in spite of major blocking of his efforts continually.

    But you want to see the nuttiness and extremism, topped with the sourest icing of hatred, bigotry, paranoia, falsehoods, lies, and plain stupidity? Go scan Facebook posts. Choose any day and just take a good look. What many people are saying on Facebook is disheartening for humanity; it really is. And the conspiracies! Just tidal wave of that crap.

    I still think the majority of Americans will not be so stupid or weak as to elect Trump. One thing for certain: this is an election year that will go down as extremely memorable in history. For good or bad, we cannot fully say yet as it is not nearly over ...
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    edited June 2016 Posts: 221
    "We need to get reasonable assurances that subject WILL remain in isolation and incommunicado for the remainder of his life," the cable said.(The cia about waterboarding)
    Compare that with the claim behind my back from the same about pretended mental illnes and William Sharp, writing in the NYT..(even far back as in the 1990's!
    Ashcroft could not continue to support that in the end he had to fight the us vice-president cheney in the matter..from his bed in the hospital..!
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