The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Actual Libertarianism most resembles classical liberalism so you're wrong there.

    Also, the media and Academia aren't just left wing, they're all radical believers in thirdwave intersectional feminism, cultural relativism, rape culture, something called "the progressive stack" and so forth.
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and believe me, you've demonstrated here that you do indeed have little.
    :))

    Thank you. That must be the caring, compassionate liberal in you coming through.

    Its really f*cling despicable how the left panders to people, pretends like they're fighting a common cause, and then they discard them like a used condom once they can no longer be used for political leverage.

    I'm reminded of an incident that just happened a few weeks ago, after Orlando. Owen Jones, leftie f#cknut and confirmed Jeremy Corbyn supporter, stormed off a television studio because they were discussing the tragic events without including any LGBT voices (forgetting that he himself is gay). Then he was booked in on another show, but pulled out when he learned that a certain right winger would be on the show as well. Well, it turns out that that right winger was also gay.

    So Owen Jones wanted a platform for more LGBT voices, but only the LGBT voices that agree with him ideologically. This is a prime example of how the left pidgeon holes people. It treats people not as individuals, but common stock. It treats human adults as if they are nothing more than their base identifiers: race, gender, age etc.

    Such a sadness.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Actual Libertarianism most resembles classical liberalism so you're wrong there.

    Also, the media and Academia aren't just left wing, they're all radical believers in thirdwave intersectional feminism, cultural relativism, rape culture, something called "the progressive stack" and so forth.
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and believe me, you've demonstrated here that you do indeed have little.
    :))

    Thank you. That must be the caring, compassionate liberal in you coming through.

    I'm not a liberal. But thank you, that must be the 'acting on a limited supply of knowledge' in you coming through. =))
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Actual Libertarianism most resembles classical liberalism so you're wrong there.

    Also, the media and Academia aren't just left wing, they're all radical believers in thirdwave intersectional feminism, cultural relativism, rape culture, something called "the progressive stack" and so forth.
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and believe me, you've demonstrated here that you do indeed have little.
    :))

    Thank you. That must be the caring, compassionate liberal in you coming through.

    I'm not a liberal. But thank you, that must be the 'acting on a limited supply of knowledge' in you coming through. =))

    Whereas you are unlimited. Such is the hubris of the left.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    After the Convention, as the nominee, Trump will receive a one time National Security briefing. I noticed a big difference in Obama's campaign commentary after that briefing (which can run over multiple days and can be as detailed as the candidate wants it to be) and I expect Trump to also be impacted by the nature and complexity of the threats America faces.
  • Posts: 1,631
    bondjames wrote: »
    After the Convention, as the nominee, Trump will receive a one time National Security briefing. I noticed a big difference in Obama's campaign commentary after that briefing (which can run over multiple days and can be as detailed as the candidate wants it to be) and I expect Trump to also be impacted by the nature and complexity of the threats America faces.

    That may depend on whether or not the following is true:

    John Kasich turned down 'most powerful' VP slot from Trump

    It could be that Mike Pence is the one that will be making the important decisions with regards to foreign policy.

    If, however, the above is true, then I'm disappointed a bit in Kasich. Kasich basically, again if this is true, turned down an offer to be the de facto POTUS.

  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited July 2016 Posts: 5,080
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Actual Libertarianism most resembles classical liberalism so you're wrong there.

    Also, the media and Academia aren't just left wing, they're all radical believers in thirdwave intersectional feminism, cultural relativism, rape culture, something called "the progressive stack" and so forth.
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and believe me, you've demonstrated here that you do indeed have little.
    :))

    Thank you. That must be the caring, compassionate liberal in you coming through.

    Its really f*cling despicable how the left panders to people, pretends like they're fighting a common cause, and then they discard them like a used condom once they can no longer be used for political leverage.

    I'm reminded of an incident that just happened a few weeks ago, after Orlando. Owen Jones, leftie f#cknut and confirmed Jeremy Corbyn supporter, stormed off a television studio because they were discussing the tragic events without including any LGBT voices (forgetting that he himself is gay). Then he was booked in on another show, but pulled out when he learned that a certain right winger would be on the show as well. Well, it turns out that that right winger was also gay.

    So Owen Jones wanted a platform for more LGBT voices, but only the LGBT voices that agree with him ideologically. This is a prime example of how the left pidgeon holes people. It treats people not as individuals, but common stock. It treats human adults as if they are nothing more than their base identifiers: race, gender, age etc.

    Such a sadness.

    You're wrong about the Owen Jones incident. His beef was that the other commentators refused to acknowledge that the Orlando attack was an attack specifically against gay people (a homophobic attack). Look, I'm no fan of Jones myself, but he had a point.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    dalton wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    After the Convention, as the nominee, Trump will receive a one time National Security briefing. I noticed a big difference in Obama's campaign commentary after that briefing (which can run over multiple days and can be as detailed as the candidate wants it to be) and I expect Trump to also be impacted by the nature and complexity of the threats America faces.

    That may depend on whether or not the following is true:

    John Kasich turned down 'most powerful' VP slot from Trump

    It could be that Mike Pence is the one that will be making the important decisions with regards to foreign policy.

    If, however, the above is true, then I'm disappointed a bit in Kasich. Kasich basically, again if this is true, turned down an offer to be the de facto POTUS.
    Yes, I saw that, and I believe there is an element of truth to it, in terms of nitty gritty as opposed to high level conceptual strategy. I always expected Trump to be hands off and big picture, with the VP more hands on and more involved.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I don't doubt it at all. Trump has always seemed more enamored with being the president than actually performing the job.

    As much as I've railed against Trump, had this actually happened, and it was known in advance of election day, I could have held my nose and pulled the lever for Trump since I'd essentially be voting for my top choice of the 17 Republicans to be the POTUS.

    I'm sure there was more to it than that, but Kasich possibly turned down a chance to, if everything fell right, have a shot at a 16-year tenure in the White House.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Exactly. Trump was essentially looking for a George HW Bush in a way for VP. He is a big picture thinker. Controversial (but definitely will be more toned down now that he is the nominee) and leadership driven. He will outsource the details and pick good lieutenants probably. Standard CEO approach.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,830
    chrisisall wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Actual Libertarianism most resembles classical liberalism so you're wrong there.

    Also, the media and Academia aren't just left wing, they're all radical believers in thirdwave intersectional feminism, cultural relativism, rape culture, something called "the progressive stack" and so forth.
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and believe me, you've demonstrated here that you do indeed have little.
    :))

    Thank you. That must be the caring, compassionate liberal in you coming through.

    I'm not a liberal. But thank you, that must be the 'acting on a limited supply of knowledge' in you coming through. =))

    Whereas you are unlimited. Such is the hubris of the left.
    So you use a non-left example to prove something about the left.
    This is why I try not to waste my time with long logical arguments with folk that display so little ability at logical thinking.
    :P
  • Posts: 1,631
    It's not as if the right doesn't use the strong-arm tactics or the demonization. Any attempt at gun control from moderate Republicans, centrists, and Democrats is always met with the same whining and fear-mongering, that "Obama and Clinton are coming for your guns".

    It's funny, though, that the party of strict Constitutionalism would even identify the 2nd Amendment as being a right for all citizens to bear arms in the first place. If they were strict Constitutionalists, they'd have a different reading of that amendment.

    The fringes of both parties do this, demonize the other side so that nothing gets done. If both sides stopped calling names, demonizing, and whatnot, and actually listened and tried to find common ground, things could actually get done.
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Exactly. Trump was essentially looking for a George HW Bush in a way for VP. He is a big picture thinker. Controversial (but definitely will be more toned down now that he is the nominee) and leadership driven. He will outsource the details and pick good lieutenants probably. Standard CEO approach.

    Uhm.....if Donald Trump really had it his way, he would have chosen either Newt Gingrich or Chris Christie. Trump's family members and his campaign-manager really had to urge Trump to pick Pence.

    So it is not true that Trump was looking for a s called 'big picture thinker'.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    Exactly. Trump was essentially looking for a George HW Bush in a way for VP. He is a big picture thinker. Controversial (but definitely will be more toned down now that he is the nominee) and leadership driven. He will outsource the details and pick good lieutenants probably. Standard CEO approach.

    Uhm.....if Donald Trump really had it his way, he would have chosen either Newt Gingrich or Chris Christie. Trump's family members and his campaign-manager really had to urge Trump to pick Pence.

    So it is not true that Trump was looking for a s called 'big picture thinker'.
    I wasn't clear - Trump is the big picture thinker. He was looking for an experienced nuts and bolts guy (like George HW). Sure, Newt and Chris were in the picture, but I'm sure there were others, like Kasich. They can all get down to the details, especially Newt. Take the media rumours with a pinch of salt. As always, there's likely some truth to it and likely some falsity as well. Perhaps Kasich was vetted and actually rejected somewhere along the process.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I'd imagine that Kasich told him to shove it from the outset. He's been pretty adamant all along that he wouldn't serve as VP.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    That may be true. We'll never really know the full facts, but Trump definitely would have made the outreach in private, because Kasich was the kind of details oriented guy he wanted for the job.
  • Posts: 315
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Actual Libertarianism most resembles classical liberalism so you're wrong there.

    Also, the media and Academia aren't just left wing, they're all radical believers in thirdwave intersectional feminism, cultural relativism, rape culture, something called "the progressive stack" and so forth.
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and believe me, you've demonstrated here that you do indeed have little.
    :))

    I trust Chrisisall has put you in your place. Sit down Mendes and take notes. Liberalism believes in govt. involvement on issues like abortion, gay marriage, govt. healthcare, women's rights, immigration, social security, welfare, drug enforcement, business regulations, labor laws and the military(how are you going to fund it without taxation?). Libertarians believe in none of those things. But we get the picture.

    853361

  • Posts: 1,631
    Sad thing is, had Trump actually tried to make some inroads with Kasich and not continued on with some of the heavy-handedness and insult-laden rhetoric that he did even after pulling so far ahead that he couldn't be caught, he might have been able to get Kasich.

    Kasich was exactly the kind of Republican he needed on board, somebody who could counter the things that the majority of the Republican field can't stand about him.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,257
    Anyone who supports the Republicans with Trump as their mascot, needs lobotomy.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    dalton wrote: »
    Sad thing is, had Trump actually tried to make some inroads with Kasich and not continued on with some of the heavy-handedness and insult-laden rhetoric that he did even after pulling so far ahead that he couldn't be caught, he might have been able to get Kasich.

    Kasich was exactly the kind of Republican he needed on board, somebody who could counter the things that the majority of the Republican field can't stand about him.
    I agree. If it hadn't got so heated between Cruz, Rubio and Trump at the end, I think things could have been smoothed over much faster and a rapprochement engineered. I always got the feeling Kasich was holding out for something at the convention - maybe he didn't get what he was looking for.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,452
    FLeiter wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Actual Libertarianism most resembles classical liberalism so you're wrong there.

    Also, the media and Academia aren't just left wing, they're all radical believers in thirdwave intersectional feminism, cultural relativism, rape culture, something called "the progressive stack" and so forth.
    A little knowledge is a dangerous thing, and believe me, you've demonstrated here that you do indeed have little.
    :))

    I trust Chrisisall has put you in your place. Sit down Mendes and take notes. Liberalism believes in govt. involvement on issues like abortion, gay marriage, govt. healthcare, women's rights, immigration, social security, welfare, drug enforcement, business regulations, labor laws and the military(how are you going to fund it without taxation?). Libertarians believe in none of those things. But we get the picture.

    853361

    :)) yes, he destroyed me with his ad hominems.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 1,631
    Good lord, Eric Trump is insufferable to listen to.

    He asks, rhetorically, who better than Trump to fix the multi-trillion dollar national debt? I don't know, maybe someone who hasn't filed for bankruptcy four times. That would be a good start, I think.
  • Let's also ask for somebody who hasn't cheated so many of the contractors that have done work for him. Thank you for your calm sense of reason, @dalton.

    But that stated... @FLeiter: ewwwwww. Inappropriate. Not helpful. I'm as willing to laugh at the insanity of this election as anybody else, but your last contribution was simply not funny, nor was it in any way pertinent. Please don't do that again.

    On the issue of the proposed "powerful" vice-president: it seems that Trump doesn't really want the job of being president after all. He just wants to put his brand on the office, then franchise it out to...whoever. Pence? Kasich? Doesn't really matter, does it? It's all about the Trump(TM) Presidency, the Trump(TM) White House, and in another decade or so, the Trump Prince In Waiting(TM). I expect Donald Jr. to be running for the next Senatorship or Governorship available, no more than 2 years down the road. Count on it!
  • Posts: 1,631
    Let's also ask for somebody who hasn't cheated so many of the contractors that have done work for him. Thank you for your calm sense of reason, @dalton.

    But that stated... @FLeiter: ewwwwww. Inappropriate. Not helpful. I'm as willing to laugh at the insanity of this election as anybody else, but your last contribution was simply not funny, nor was it in any way pertinent. Please don't do that again.

    On the issue of the proposed "powerful" vice-president: it seems that Trump doesn't really want the job of being president after all. He just wants to put his brand on the office, then franchise it out to...whoever. Pence? Kasich? Doesn't really matter, does it? It's all about the Trump(TM) Presidency, the Trump(TM) White House, and in another decade or so, the Trump Prince In Waiting(TM). I expect Donald Jr. to be running for the next Senatorship or Governorship available, no more than 2 years down the road. Count on it!

    Kind of goes without saying, but yes, that would be nice as well. ;)

    If the Trump campaign ends up ultimately blowing up the Republican party as we currently know it and finds someway to get the potty-trained Republicans joined up with perhaps a good chunk of the Libertarians, then it might have been worth it.

    Sadly, though, the GOP will probably limp on for several more cycles, and the sane people in the party will continue to have to deal with the crazies of the party that gets the specter of racism placed over the entire party, because they can't keep their hatred to themselves.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,589
    What a train wreck. I don't know how anyone can vote Republican after the BS we've witnessed the past three nights.
  • Posts: 1,631
    At least some good came out of the convention. Ted Cruz's political future looks pretty bleak after that spectacle he put on.
  • The spectacle of Ted Cruz declining to endorse the man who accused his father of participating in the Kennedy assassination is nowhere near as sad as the spectacle of Chris Christie kissing that orange a$$ for months now, and for months to come as well. Christie clearly has been angling for the VP nod, and he won't get it -- Cruz at least will be able to sleep tonight with a clear conscience. Political memories can be pretty short, if Trump loses this year then Cruz has positioned himself as a Contentious Conservative for 2020.
  • Posts: 1,631
    Considering that I view Cruz even more negatively than Trump, I took some pleasure in seeing him pull his stunt tonight. As someone on CNN said tonight, you'd like to think that a self-proclaimed conservative would have some manners, and crashing someone else's party and basically pissing on the carpet is the height of poor manners.

    Trump was absolutely out of line when he did the things he did to Cruz during the primary. I think you'll find that I said that back at that time, and if I didn't actually post it here, I can assure you that was my thinking. Cruz, on the other hand, was out of line tonight. Regardless of what he feels about Trump, this week is supposed to be about trying to unite the party. That's the primary purpose of this, especially this convention in particular. He should have had the tact to stay home as John Kasich, Jeb Bush, and countless others have done. It would have still accomplished the same thing without the political fallout. Even some of his supporters are saying that they're done with him, according to CNN.

    Cruz himself has been very inflammatory over his career. I doubt, as much as he rightfully hates Trump, that he'd appreciate someone that he's pissed off (and there are countless numbers of them) pulling that same stunt in 2020 or 2024 if he were standing up there as the nominee.
  • I don't really see how conservatism (or liberalism either for that matter) factors into the ability for one to behave with common courtesy -- but your basic point is well taken. Cruz has long been noted for an ability to anger his own allies -- and tonight's appearance at the convention surely hasn't helped his reputation in that regard. Still, after watching so many people lie so blatantly all night long -- Pence for one, who was already known not to be a fan of Trump's campaign prior to his being offered the VP slot -- it was simply refreshing to see somebody finally voice his true opinion with the cameras fully on him and no hope of spinning Up into Down when the morning light dawns again.
  • Posts: 1,631
    I don't really see how conservatism (or liberalism either for that matter) factors into the ability for one to behave with common courtesy -- but your basic point is well taken. Cruz has long been noted for an ability to anger his own allies -- and tonight's appearance at the convention surely hasn't helped his reputation in that regard. Still, after watching so many people lie so blatantly all night long -- Pence for one, who was already known not to be a fan of Trump's campaign prior to his being offered the VP slot -- it was simply refreshing to see somebody finally voice his true opinion with the cameras fully on him and no hope of spinning Up into Down when the morning light dawns again.

    What I was trying to get at was that Cruz likes to hold himself up as this morally superior individual, that he's better because he's a conservative. The kind of conservative values that he likes to claim to have are rooted in that old southern tradition where manners were extremely important. It would seem to me that someone who holds himself up in that kind of regard would have some manners and conduct himself accordingly.

    He just showed himself to be the hypocrite that he's always been. He claims to be in this for altruistic reasons, but all he did was try to set himself up, selfishly, for 2020 or 2024, and thankfully it backfired. There's only one force in the GOP right now that is worse than Trump, and that's Ted Cruz, and he finally stepped in it tonight.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    OMG, Have you guys seen this big 'middlefinger' to Trump :-P?



    It's the GOP on "Cruz Contol" here, and we haven't seen such an historic anti-endorsement speech since Ted Kennedy completely ignored Jimmy Carter during the 1980 DNC Convention :-P.

    Now with today's carefully scripted PR shows that conventions are these days, we should perhaps have known better from the Trump campaign. Because Trump doesn't want to carefully script his road to the White House.

    So then you get this mess. Both the GOP and the DNC are very divided parties. And it's very similar to what's happening to other western democracies (Spain, the UK, Germany, Netherlands). But there always needs to be one establishment party who does worse than the other establishment party in bringing unity. And as of today that's definetely the Republican Party.

    In many ways Ted Cruz' anti-climatic speech does everything you don't want to see at a convention: Destruction of unity. Add to that the aftermatch of Cruz' speech -Ted Cruz mockingly saying "I appreciate the enthusiasm of the New York delegation", Donald Trump interrupting Cruz in panic mode, Ted's wife Heidi leaving the stadium with a security escorte, the LED-screen starting to fail, and off course the deafening booing- and you can conclude that Trump himself should be agitated about all this. Therefore Cruz' speech is already as historic as Ted Kennedy's speech from 1980. But in many ways it also reminds us of the madness surrounding the 1976 GOP convention and the 1968 DNC convention. Compare away I say :-D!:

    A short documentary about the RNC 1976 (Watch Vice-President Nelson Rockefeller destroying the voting phone):
    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/how-reagan-lost-the-nomination-but-won-the-republican-party/

    A short documentary about Kennedy's bid for the 1980 presidency (and the actual speech that wasn't an endorsement for Carter. And look out for the Tennyson bit at 34min20sec. Now we know where 'Skyfall' drew its inspiration from ;-)):



    A short documentary about the 1968 Democratic National Convention (the convention in which eventually Hubert Humphrey accepted the nomination for president):

This discussion has been closed.