The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • Posts: 7,507
    bondjames wrote: »
    The thing is, these candidates do raise important issues. Issues that are dismissed by their opponents and the media most often, rather than openly discussed and debated honestly and in a caring way. I think that is a starting point to defeating these insurgents, as you correctly noted earlier.


    That, in a nutshell, was my point from earlier too, but I don't think everyone understood.

    However the more moderate politicians raise the same issues as well, however they reflect on them with nuance. Nuance is uncomfortable for a lot of people. A world in 'black and white' (or arab and white) is so much more easy to relate to. So simple solutions speak more to the people at large. That is what populism is all about, and always has been.

    So I don't agree with @DaltonCraig007 in that these are new times and an unprecedented scenario. This to me is classic populism, nothing more, nothingless. There is a way to deal with it as pointed out, and I think the media by and large are letting us down. The key words are as mentioned are 'care' and 'respect'. We have to treat populistic tendencies with care and respect, not shrug them off with easy insults.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I missed your earlier point @jobo and I apologize.

    An example of what I'm referring to happened yesterday.

    In the morning I saw Obama commenting on Trump's speech. He dismissed his concerns about security on the streets and almost seemed to be laughing at them. Then in the afternoon we were subjected to Munich on the tv. Nobody did more to boost Trump's credibility the night before in the minds of voters than Obama in my view. That was a mistake.
  • Sometimes I think we're living in different dimensions. The Obama comments as I read them are using facts to refute the material in Trump's speech -- facts like how many Americans have died due to terrorist action on his watch versus how many died due to same on his predecessor's, facts like how many police have died in action in 2015 (the last full year for which we have figures available) versus how many in 2008 (the last year of Bush the lesser's term) etc. You claim to want facts, and yet you ignore them when they're used. The tenor of Obama's remarks may be that he finds Trump's claims ludicrous, but that's because they ARE. You want the Democrats to take Trump seriously? Oh, we do. Believe me, we do, and we're just getting STARTED on him...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Then I wish you the best of luck in what will most certainly be a long, drawn out and unpretty campaign.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited July 2016 Posts: 15,718
    You claim to want facts, and yet you ignore them when they're used. The tenor of Obama's remarks may be that he finds Trump's claims ludicrous, but that's because they ARE. You want the Democrats to take Trump seriously? Oh, we do. Believe me, we do, and we're just getting STARTED on him...

    The problem is Trump's claims stick whether you agree with them or not (and they do stick, no way of getting around this, the population, the media both domestic and foreign are all over Trump soundbites each time he says something). And no, the Democrats don't take him seriously (as in, they keep addressing his claims negatively instead of being positive on Clinton's ideas and views). If by 'getting starting on him' means being endlessly negative on him, it just won't work. His campaign gets a rise from the accusations made to him.

    Both the Clinton and Trump campaigns are woeful. The bad far outweighs the good in either side of the equation.
  • Posts: 5,994
    From "Not Always Related" :

    https://notalwaysrelated.com/39451-2/39451

    That's as good a reason as any, I suppose.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    Gerard wrote: »

    https://notalwaysrelated.com/39451-2/39451

    That's as good a reason as any, I suppose.

    :))
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I mean, The Donald wants to get.....rid of NATO membership. How stupid can you be.
    That is not quite what he wants to do by the way.
    For me Donald Trump, Nigel Farage and Boris Johnson are all very much the same.
    Not quite. They are quite different in their life experiences and abilities. Where they may be similar is in appearance (Trump/Johnson perhaps) and appeal to populism/nationalism.

    Note; The MUTUAL ASSISTANCE CLAUSE is centric to the US Defence Doctrine; One Of Its Main TOOLS - NATO- is TOOTHLESS without it; It has costed US Taxpayers-Republicans and Democrats ALIKE Many ZILLIONS of Billions Of USD to put it in place; to make It what it is-And It has Done Great Service For The USA, Now aswell as in the Past.
    Everyone is aware of that.

    "Everybody Knows This is Nowhere" -- Neil Young.

    There is NOTHING that Everybody is aware of. I can assure you of that. If you believe nothing else I've ever said, believe this: there is NOTHING, absolutely nothing, that "Everybody" agrees on, or knows, or is aware of.

    -But The Thing Is; We EveryBody Thinks(Are Thinking) We Are Aware....!
  • Posts: 11,119
    Obviously people now have heard of the Wikileaks regarding the Democratic Party. Here is my opinion about it.

    We need to act smarter, sneekier and more ruthless in defending Western principles from invisible Russian attacks. This time it was a Russian-Romanian pro-Putin hacker named 'Guccifer 2.0'. And he may have shifted the balance of the US Elections in favor of Donald Trump.

    Now I do fiercefully condemn how 'corporate' the Democratic Party has become. Talking about your electorate as if Hispanics are a bunch of traditionalist lunatics is dangerous. Never treat them coldheartedly as 'necessary marketing segments'. And I do think it's perhaps best if someone within the DNC resigns. But make no mistake: Do look at the bigger picture and don't let other countries influence OUR democratic elections.

    What do you guys think about the ever growing Russian influence on Western affairs?

    http://motherboard.vice.com/read/guccifer-20-is-likely-a-russian-government-attempt-to-cover-up-their-own-hack
  • What I wonder about is: why do the Russians feel the need to develop inside info on the Democratic Party? Is Putin working for his buddy Don already?
  • Posts: 7,507
    It is quite fascinating how Trump's admiration for Putin actually is going down well with his followers. I mean, there's no surprise that his populistic right wing ideas would garder appeal, but praising Putin should on paper be the most tabu thing you could do in America. Obviously not. Its quite bisarre actually.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Look at the fear mongering that went on during Brexit. Now unemployment in the UK is at an all time low. What harm could a Trump Presidency really cause?
  • Posts: 11,119
    What I wonder about is: why do the Russians feel the need to develop inside info on the Democratic Party? Is Putin working for his buddy Don already?

    Well, I think it's fairly obvious no? Ask yourself what interest Russia has. In Hillary Clinton as US president? Or Donald Trump?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I came here to see the latest news and see this has become a discussion about Putin and Trump? Interesting. So that's the news is it? Or is that the spin?

    At least we know where the next MIC war is going to be fought. I wouldn't be surprised if plans are being drawn up as we speak.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited July 2016 Posts: 8,395
    Globalism is a scary thing. More than the Muslim threat, or the black supremacy hipster cop killers, Trump can save America from the Lizards Merkel and Juncker!
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 3,566
    bondjames wrote: »
    I came here to see the latest news and see this has become a discussion about Putin and Trump? Interesting. So that's the news is it? Or is that the spin?

    No, that's the *JOKE* In case you hadn't noticed, sometimes I'm just being a wiseacre around here. My theory is, if you can't laugh at this stuff you'll end up crying...
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    I came here to see the latest news and see this has become a discussion about Putin and Trump? Interesting. So that's the news is it? Or is that the spin?

    At least we know where the next MIC war is going to be fought. I wouldn't be surprised if plans are being drawn up as we speak.

    I think Trump has nothing to do with it. At least concerning the hack.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    My theory is, if you can't laugh at this stuff you'll end up crying...
    On that I most definitely agree.
  • Posts: 51
    This is random and probably a stretch to connect this thread to the overall forum, but... does anyone else think that Tim Kaine kind of looks like Timothy Dalton? Perhaps softer-looking and not as rugged as Dalton, but... they're both named Tim! :D
  • Posts: 315
    I thought now might be a good time to pass along a chart from Pew Research on which voting group leans one way or another. In 2012 the Republicans did an "autopsy"(their words) on what groups they needed to attract to the party if they wanted to win in 2016 and beyond. They concluded they needed more educated women, blacks and Hispanics. You can make your own decisions whether they've followed that game plan.

    4-6-2015_LEDE.png
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    linglingqi wrote: »
    This is random and probably a stretch to connect this thread to the overall forum, but... does anyone else think that Tim Kaine kind of looks like Timothy Dalton? Perhaps softer-looking and not as rugged as Dalton, but... they're both named Tim! :D

    This guy looks like Red Grant.

    Mike-Pence.jpg
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I agree on Kaine looking a bit like an older Dalton and Pence looking like Grant.

    Trump reminds me of Auric in a way (personality wise), and Hillary reminds me of Klebb.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    bondjames wrote: »
    Trump reminds me of Auric in a way (personality wise), and Hillary reminds me of Klebb.

    Yes, for these two it really has to do more with character than looks.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,619
    We need to act smarter, sneekier and more ruthless in defending Western principles from invisible Russian attacks. This time it was a Russian-Romanian pro-Putin hacker named 'Guccifer 2.0'.
    Are you out of your mind? Wikileak exposed how corrupt the DNC is, and you are talking about Russia undermining American democracy. Unbelievable. Even if the Russian have anything to do with these leaks, all American citizens should be glad these e-mails were released. Even the Democrats.
    Well, I think it's fairly obvious no? Ask yourself what interest Russia has. In Hillary Clinton as US president? Or Donald Trump?
    Ask yourself this: if something is good for Putin, is that necessarily bad for everyday Americans? Maybe Putin wants Trump to be the next president, because he believes that Trump = peace, and Hillary = war.
  • Ask yourself this: if something is good for Putin, is that necessarily bad for everyday Americans? Maybe Putin wants Trump to be the next president, because he believes that Trump = peace, and Hillary = war.

    Right, because Putin has ALWAYS wanted what's best for America. Just like the current lunatic in charge of North Korea (I just can't keep those Kims straight, sorry.) Meanwhile, we'll need to get used to the idea that the "special relationship" between Britain and the US just ain't all that special anymore. And oh yes, NATO hasn't helped keep the world stable at all over the past 60-someodd years, so out it goes. In Trumpworld Up is Down and our longtime friends and longtime enemies get to switch roles, because THAT'S what will make America great again. What utter and unabashed hogwash. The only thing the Wikileak exposed is that the Democratic Party was in favor of nominating a Democrat rather than an Independent. What a shock! Should Debbie Wasserman Shultz step down from her position in the Democratic Party? Yes. Other than that, it's still business as usual.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Ask yourself this: if something is good for Putin, is that necessarily bad for everyday Americans? Maybe Putin wants Trump to be the next president, because he believes that Trump = peace, and Hillary = war.

    Right, because Putin has ALWAYS wanted what's best for America. Just like the current lunatic in charge of North Korea (I just can't keep those Kims straight, sorry.) Meanwhile, we'll need to get used to the idea that the "special relationship" between Britain and the US just ain't all that special anymore. And oh yes, NATO hasn't helped keep the world stable at all over the past 60-someodd years, so out it goes. In Trumpworld Up is Down and our longtime friends and longtime enemies get to switch roles, because THAT'S what will make America great again. What utter and unabashed hogwash. The only thing the Wikileak exposed is that the Democratic Party was in favor of nominating a Democrat rather than an Independent. What a shock! Should Debbie Wasserman Shultz step down from her position in the Democratic Party? Yes. Other than that, it's still business as usual.

    Putin wants best for Russia, which could also mean the best for America. There is such a thing as a win win, you know. That's what PP is saying.
  • Posts: 4,619
    Right, because Putin has ALWAYS wanted what's best for America.
    I never said that. All I am saying is that this belief that every single thing that is good for Putin is bad for everyday people in the US and othern Western countries is incredibly misjudged. As for Sanders, he is a registred Democrat. The DNC leadership was supposed to be independent during the primaries, and it turns out they weren't.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    What the DNC leaks expose is the fact that the deck was stacked against Bernie (the race wasn't fair on his end), and that pre-existing fears were well founded.

    That's the key takeaway from it and it won't go unnoticed imho, despite distractions.
  • The key takeaway SHOULD BE that Bernie pulled Hillary and the Democratic party significantly leftward. That's my takeaway, anyway, and I supported Bernie in the primaries. I'm satisfied with the effect that he had on the process. The key takeaway from the Republican primary -- for me-- was that this is one pissed off and angry group of people, and they're willing to vote for whoever stokes that fear most skillfully, whether or not they've ever held an elected office in their lives, as long as they're willing to promise that EVERYTHING is going to turn around they day they take office. The rationality of those promises -- all crime will disappear once Trump takes office, all terrorism will be abandoned once Trump takes office, the tax code will be completely re-written the very moment Trump takes office -- are meaningless. All that matters is he'll fix everything because he's a strong leader and that's just what America needs to be great again. Again, hogwash -- and Trump (c) brand hogwash gives you a beautiful orange complexion as well!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I think people first bought into the concept of a Messiah who could part the oceans and cure the world's ills by sheer will 8 yrs ago - a second coming in a way. So what's happening now is not a surprise really.
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