The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • Posts: 315
    FLeiter wrote: »
    FLeiter wrote: »
    FLeiter wrote: »
    As for Sanders, he is a registred Democrat. The DNC leadership was supposed to be independent during the primaries, and it turns out they weren't.

    9ef15a790c8fa6da1d901e4805c27d6ae55722d6b61c03a7a3de63dcbe8c0d93.jpg

    He has NEVER been a registered Democrat.

    How could he, he believes in the second amendment.

    Consistent and uninformed. You can make up your own opinion, but you can't make up your own facts. From Bernie's website:

    Bernie has voted in favor of a nationwide ban on assault weapons, a nationwide ban on high-capacity magazines of over ten rounds, and nationwide expanded background checks that address unsafe loopholes.

    Now go wipe your chin.

    High-capacity magazines have nothing to do with the second amendment. Bernie supports guns and hunting. How do you not know this?

    There you go again, ignoring the facts. From Politico:

    The NRA has largely turned on Sanders — his most recent grade from the group is a D- and he has received an F before. And Ed Cutler, president of Gun Owners of Vermont, said gun-rights group in the state just don’t trust him. “We, in Vermont, consider him anti-gun,” he said.


    So this random group "consider" him anti-gun, therefore its a fact? Seems to me like you're just making up a bunch of shit.

    e80ab6d1e257b0f76d8175ef28f46393df72fb773ad1edbf2598107d2a2694b4.jpg

    Jeez...you really are a dim bulb. The NRA is not a random group. About what we expect from you.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited July 2016 Posts: 8,395
    FLeiter wrote: »
    FLeiter wrote: »
    FLeiter wrote: »
    FLeiter wrote: »
    As for Sanders, he is a registred Democrat. The DNC leadership was supposed to be independent during the primaries, and it turns out they weren't.

    9ef15a790c8fa6da1d901e4805c27d6ae55722d6b61c03a7a3de63dcbe8c0d93.jpg

    He has NEVER been a registered Democrat.

    How could he, he believes in the second amendment.

    Consistent and uninformed. You can make up your own opinion, but you can't make up your own facts. From Bernie's website:

    Bernie has voted in favor of a nationwide ban on assault weapons, a nationwide ban on high-capacity magazines of over ten rounds, and nationwide expanded background checks that address unsafe loopholes.

    Now go wipe your chin.

    High-capacity magazines have nothing to do with the second amendment. Bernie supports guns and hunting. How do you not know this?

    There you go again, ignoring the facts. From Politico:

    The NRA has largely turned on Sanders — his most recent grade from the group is a D- and he has received an F before. And Ed Cutler, president of Gun Owners of Vermont, said gun-rights group in the state just don’t trust him. “We, in Vermont, consider him anti-gun,” he said.


    So this random group "consider" him anti-gun, therefore its a fact? Seems to me like you're just making up a bunch of shit.

    e80ab6d1e257b0f76d8175ef28f46393df72fb773ad1edbf2598107d2a2694b4.jpg

    Jeez...you really are a dim bulb. The NRA is not a random group. About what we expect from you.

    What does that matter? Even if President Obama "considered" Bernie anti-gun, that still wouldn't make it a fact. Facts require actual evidence. Your catalogue of memes is, regrettably, insufficient.

  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    The Government has been lying to its citizens. Misleading them. Wikileaks and Snowden have exposed that. I am all for that sort of disclosure - namely when policy is conducted on the basis of lies. One has to level with the public. Even Bond has been known to work against the deceitful within his own Government for the greater good.

    So. Shall we release Trump's tax returns then? Huh!? Is that happening? No. Because Donald Trump deems it 'unnecessary'. But at the same time, we ask for Hillary's head regarding her email server. There are simply two standards here these days. And one has to seriously ask why one party gets all the blame, when actually both parties are wishy-washy. Reason for that: "Establishment" are all criminals, "Outsiders" are all saviors. It's a dangerous assumption.

    You know, freedom for me is a bit more than releasing 'stuff'. Julian Assange even releases credit card information from DNC-staffers. Bank details! That's unheard off. It goes beyond freedom for me and it blatantly borders crime. There were days when journalists interpreted that stuff for as as being gatekeepers of democracy. Just watch "All The President's Men", or even the latest film "Spotlight". Now in those days, journalists placed these findings, which I call research journalism, into perspective and context. And then people were forced to form an opinion about it. But nowadays, we also ask for the heads of the "Liberal Media", a bullying bumpersticker for all journalists in today's geopolitical environment.

    But now? Assange just releases dirt as if he's some kind of heroe or savior. For me Carl Bernstein and Bob Woodward are heroes and saviors! Julian Assange not so much! And make no mistake, I frequently criticised today's social media environment. It's one of the reasons we keep clashing constantly @BondJames. But there are days when I'm longing for the old democratic institutions functioning normal again, the 'gatekeepers of freedom', journalists, included. There were days were there was more social cohesion in which freedom almost automatically made an appeal to pragmatism and rationalism, in which facts were placed into context and not as a means of ideological fights.

    That society is long gone. But I damn Julian Assange for facilitating that decline much faster. The fine line between freedom and crime seems to be gone. And I do think computerhacking is a part of it. Computerhacking IS A CRIME! Don't 'Robin Hood' Julian Assange all the time. It's damaging, destructive and it creates more and more problems. And James Bond knew this, as he fought Raoul Silva with so much gusto.

    In any case........you frighten me @BondJames.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    In any case........you frighten me @BondJames.
    I don't doubt it. I can assure you I'm perfectly harmless.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,585
    bondjames wrote: »
    The Government has been lying to its citizens. Misleading them. Wikileaks and Snowden have exposed that. I am all for that sort of disclosure - namely when policy is conducted on the basis of lies. One has to level with the public. Even Bond has been known to work against the deceitful within his own Government for the greater good.

    Well, @bondjames, that's not exactly a revelation, is it? Wikileaks and Snowden didn't do anything other than expose what we already guessed. As for disclosure: I have to disagree. There are many things that the general public just shouldn't know about. Period. Not because it's deceitful information, but because the public's right to know often leads to public harm. Sometimes, letting the enemy know what you know puts you in a weakened position. (But maybe we're talking about two different things.)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Let's just put it this way @TripAces, so we can narrow the focus of our discussion. I believe the public had a right to know that the DNC was in the tank for Clinton. Certainly the Bernie supporters had a right to know. The timing was suspect however.

    In case anyone missed it, the real story yesterday wasn't the DNC leaks, disgraceful though the content of the emails were. It was the hiring of that partisan hack Wasserman Schultz as Clinton's honorary chair of her campaign, despite her unethical behaviour.

    Our 'journalists' seem to have lost that story during their discussion of Russia, Putin and Manafort.
  • Posts: 11,119
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The Government has been lying to its citizens. Misleading them. Wikileaks and Snowden have exposed that. I am all for that sort of disclosure - namely when policy is conducted on the basis of lies. One has to level with the public. Even Bond has been known to work against the deceitful within his own Government for the greater good.

    Well, @bondjames, that's not exactly a revelation, is it? Wikileaks and Snowden didn't do anything other than expose what we already guessed. As for disclosure: I have to disagree. There are many things that the general public just shouldn't know about. Period. Not because it's deceitful information, but because the public's right to know often leads to public harm. Sometimes, letting the enemy know what you know puts you in a weakened position. (But maybe we're talking about two different things.)

    I fully agree.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    TripAces wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The Government has been lying to its citizens. Misleading them. Wikileaks and Snowden have exposed that. I am all for that sort of disclosure - namely when policy is conducted on the basis of lies. One has to level with the public. Even Bond has been known to work against the deceitful within his own Government for the greater good.

    Well, @bondjames, that's not exactly a revelation, is it? Wikileaks and Snowden didn't do anything other than expose what we already guessed. As for disclosure: I have to disagree. There are many things that the general public just shouldn't know about. Period. Not because it's deceitful information, but because the public's right to know often leads to public harm. Sometimes, letting the enemy know what you know puts you in a weakened position. (But maybe we're talking about two different things.)
    Just to add, I believe we are at a time in history when we need more disclosure, and not less. Post-Nixon there was a period when I believe we had more openness and candor in the political process for a while.

    Post-911 I believe the opposite has been the case, especially during Bush Jr's time, and the effects were catastrophic for the country. I expected an improvement under Obama, but I don't feel that it has trended in that direction. Rather, it's been more of the same but with a different tenor.

    In an era of Citizen's United, intense lobbying of politicians, corporate consolidation / sponsorship, increased media concentration and patronage, I believe disrupters like Wikileaks and Snowden are essential to balance the information flow to citizens.

    Of course, matters of national security shouldn't be included in such releases, but if I had to make a choice between release of sensitive information and clamping down on all information which could benefit the public interest (especially when they are being misinformed), then I would definitely lean towards more disclosure rather than less.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,800
    I'm with ya there, @bondjames.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    The criminals exposed by Snowden, Wikileaks, Manning and others have nothing to fear, do they?

    It is the whistleblowers who are in peril.

    Every western government is ok with this, it seems.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,585
    bondjames wrote: »
    Let's just put it this way @TripAces, so we can narrow the focus of our discussion. I believe the public had a right to know that the DNC was in the tank for Clinton. Certainly the Bernie supporters had a right to know. The timing was suspect however.

    In case anyone missed it, the real story yesterday wasn't the DNC leaks, disgraceful though the content of the emails were. It was the hiring of that partisan hack Wasserman Schultz as Clinton's honorary chair of her campaign, despite her unethical behaviour.

    Our 'journalists' seem to have lost that story during their discussion of Russia, Putin and Manafort.

    I am not sure what, exactly, the Clinton team is thinking here. I will say this: as much I am fine with Hillary as a potential President, she sure is aloof. I don't think she is dumb; I don't think she is corrupt; I just think she doesn't "get it" sometimes.
    bondjames wrote: »
    Just to add, I believe we are at a time in history when we need more disclosure, and not less. Post-Nixon there was a period when I believe we had more openness and candor in the political process for a while.

    Post-911 I believe the opposite has been the case, especially during Bush Jr's time, and the effects were catastrophic for the country. I expected an improvement under Obama, but I don't feel that it has trended in that direction. Rather, it's been more of the same but with a different tenor.

    In an era of Citizen's United, intense lobbying of politicians, corporate consolidation / sponsorship, increased media concentration and patronage, I believe disrupters like Wikileaks and Snowden are essential to balance the information flow to citizens.

    Of course, matters of national security shouldn't be included in such releases, but if I had to make a choice between release of sensitive information and clamping down on all information which could benefit the public interest (especially when they are being misinformed), then I would definitely lean towards more disclosure rather than less.

    This might be true. There are many different aspects of the Wikileaks case. I guess I've grown cold and cynical about personal privacy, as opposed to government privacy. We are all so worried about government peeking into our personal lives, but it's not government we should fear. Ask all the celebs whose iTunes Cloud got hacked. (BTW: the effin' cloud is what is ruining us. I hate the damn cloud.)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    TripAces wrote: »
    (BTW: the effin' cloud is what is ruining us. I hate the damn cloud.)
    Completely agree on the cloud. Use at your peril. I tend to avoid where possible.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    Wait, are we talking about the cloud as in the apple cloud?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Wait, are we talking about the cloud as in the apple cloud?
    I'm referring to all clouds & not just Apple's. Basically anything that's stored or which utilizes the internet rather than your local hard drive for processing and storage. So called on-demand.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,395
    bondjames wrote: »
    we are we talking about the cloud as in the apple cloud?
    I'm referring to all clouds & not just Apple's. Basically anything that's stored or which utilizes the internet rather than your local hard drive for processing and storage.

    OK, then I agree. Sorry.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Wait, are we talking about the cloud as in the apple cloud?

    I said "iTunes" cloud and meant Apple. Yes. LOL

  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    I never thought of Assange or Snowden as heroes. Quite frankly, I didn't know what to think of them. Now I do. They've chosen to throw in their lot with the enemies of their country. In any world except for TrumpsidedownWorld, that makes them traitors.

    And please, @Panchito, let's not be throwing feces. Reasonable people can always disagree reasonably. Are you or are you not a reasonable person?

    I am with you on this, @Beatles. And people need to lay off the overblown harsh comments to Gustav or anybody else.

  • Posts: 7,507
    I never thought of Assange or Snowden as heroes. Quite frankly, I didn't know what to think of them. Now I do. They've chosen to throw in their lot with the enemies of their country. In any world except for TrumpsidedownWorld, that makes them traitors.

    And please, @Panchito, let's not be throwing feces. Reasonable people can always disagree reasonably. Are you or are you not a reasonable person?


    Yes, the kindergarten mentality of 'us, the "good guys", against the "enemies" ' is quite common in the US isn't it?

    If any whistle blower from China or Russia hadde been reporting similar things, the US had been taking him in with open arms, and he would probably get the Nobel Peace Price. Seems like dobbel standards to many, but in the easy American mentality it works fine. How easy to live in a world where everything your government does is for the greater good, and all in opposition are evil enemies?
  • Posts: 11,119
    I never thought of Assange or Snowden as heroes. Quite frankly, I didn't know what to think of them. Now I do. They've chosen to throw in their lot with the enemies of their country. In any world except for TrumpsidedownWorld, that makes them traitors.

    And please, @Panchito, let's not be throwing feces. Reasonable people can always disagree reasonably. Are you or are you not a reasonable person?

    I am with you on this, @Beatles. And people need to lay off the overblown harsh comments to Gustav or anybody else.

    Don't worry @4EverBonded. I think at times you need to accept that your opinion in here is the opinion of a minority :-). There's not much you can do.

    By the way, I am very harsh too. I know that from myself. And that sometimes -or most of the time- backfires to me, especially in an environment where your principles aren't overwhelmingly supported.

    The same thing goes for my opinion about the European Union. We live in times where neo-nationalism and appealing to the 'populi' (populism) are far more popular than internationalism. And I understand that. But that doesn't mean I will blindly appease all my core principles with an understanding of new situations.
  • jobo wrote: »
    I never thought of Assange or Snowden as heroes. Quite frankly, I didn't know what to think of them. Now I do. They've chosen to throw in their lot with the enemies of their country. In any world except for TrumpsidedownWorld, that makes them traitors.

    And please, @Panchito, let's not be throwing feces. Reasonable people can always disagree reasonably. Are you or are you not a reasonable person?


    Yes, the kindergarten mentality of 'us, the "good guys", against the "enemies" ' is quite common in the US isn't it?

    If any whistle blower from China or Russia hadde been reporting similar things, the US had been taking him in with open arms, and he would probably get the Nobel Peace Price. Seems like dobbel standards to many, but in the easy American mentality it works fine. How easy to live in a world where everything your government does is for the greater good, and all in opposition are evil enemies?

    I don't think a black or white, up or down, good or bad mentality is specific to America, @jobo. It's human nature. I'll cop to being human, I suspect most of us here will as well (at least if we're being honest with ourselves.) I refer you to Fleming -- Casino Royale, Chapter 20: "The Nature of Evil."
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    And no, Gustav. Saying to another member here that: "As always, you are full of shit" is not acceptable. People can give strong opinions and be harsh enough without resorting to that, so no - it is not to be just ignored and accepted as part of the flow. That, and any direct ugly name calling (when done seriously, not in jest), is definitely unacceptable.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    And no, Gustav. Saying to another member here that: "As always, you are full of shit" is not acceptable. People can give strong opinions and be harsh enough without resorting to that, so no - it is not to be just ignored and accepted as part of the flow. That, and any direct ugly name calling (when done seriously, not in jest), is definitely unacceptable.

    It is better that I don't post here anymore. I'm a very unlikeable asshole. I wouldn't mind if all of you tell me to leave...because I think then my apparent harshness stops.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    You are not the one posting objectionable namecalling posts, Gustav.
  • Posts: 11,119
    You are not the one posting objectionable namecalling posts, Gustav.

    If not, then at least my presence causes divisiveness and more blindness. I think it's really better if I fuck off (And please moderators, I'm talking to myself ;-) ).

  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,260
    You are not the one posting objectionable namecalling posts, Gustav.

    If not, then at least my presence causes divisiveness and more blindness. I think it's really better if I fuck off (And please moderators, I'm talking to myself ;-) ).
    I haven't seen you gauge anyone's eyes out, so I wouldn't worry about the blinding bit. And we're not here to stand behind the same opinion, it isn't the International Bond Congress (IBC). So no worries there. You may be inclined to panic once in a while, be melodramatic or think @bondjames has more power then he does, but that's not bad enough to be banned.
  • Posts: 11,119
    You are not the one posting objectionable namecalling posts, Gustav.

    If not, then at least my presence causes divisiveness and more blindness. I think it's really better if I fuck off (And please moderators, I'm talking to myself ;-) ).
    I haven't seen you gauge anyone's eyes out, so I wouldn't worry about the blinding bit. And we're not here to stand behind the same opinion, it isn't the International Bond Congress (IBC). So no worries there. You may be inclined to panic once in a while, be melodramatic or think @bondjames has more power then he does, but that's not bad enough to be banned.

    It would be nice if you understand what it means to suffer from Borderline and mild Asperger. When you say 'melodramatic' I feel....actually deeply offended. And perhaps this should read then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder#Emotions . What for you seems melodramatic, is another guy's seriousness, passion and an honest feeling of being belittled.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,260
    You are not the one posting objectionable namecalling posts, Gustav.

    If not, then at least my presence causes divisiveness and more blindness. I think it's really better if I fuck off (And please moderators, I'm talking to myself ;-) ).
    I haven't seen you gauge anyone's eyes out, so I wouldn't worry about the blinding bit. And we're not here to stand behind the same opinion, it isn't the International Bond Congress (IBC). So no worries there. You may be inclined to panic once in a while, be melodramatic or think @bondjames has more power then he does, but that's not bad enough to be banned.

    It would be nice if you understand what it means to suffer from Borderline and mild Asperger. When you say 'melodramatic' I feel....actually deeply offended. And perhaps this should read then: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borderline_personality_disorder#Emotions . What for you seems melodramatic, is another guy's seriousness, passion and an honest feeling of being belittled.
    I'm sorry I offended to, as that's absolutely not what i wanted to achieve. I do know what a borderline personality brings to the table, and at the same time am communicating to the rest of the (Bond) world as well. It's quite hard to find a middle ground so that everyone understands. The way you see this world is completely different from how I see it. Where you see imminent danger, I see loads of opportunities for things to turn out way better. I have clinically depressed people in my family, they react in a similar manner. There I've also chosen to keep on communicating in the same manner I would with other peope.

    You say you know you can react in a harsh way. I think this is not true, I think you overreact. Something, again, easily explaineable by your borderline disorder. At the same time, do you want to be treated different for it? Enlarging the 'disabillity'? or would you rather be treated like anyone else?
  • Posts: 11,119
    On a moment like...today, I would like my life to stop :). Yeah, that's how I feel. Forever sleeping and at the same time making others, who mourn for me, pay for the damage they've done. Make them pay for having wrong and ethical unjust views.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,260
    On a moment like...today, I would like my life to stop :). Yeah, that's how I feel. Forever sleeping and at the same time making others, who mourn for me, pay for the damage they've done. Make them pay for having wrong and ethical unjust views.

    It's not you agianst the world,

    it's you IN this world.

    Your demise will be mourned by those you care about,

    but it won't be seen or felt like punishment.

    I understand you feel desperate at times, but there's only one way to handle that and that is to remember that it's a passing feeling. You just sit it out and will feel better later on.

This discussion has been closed.