The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • edited July 2016 Posts: 1,631
    fanbond123 wrote: »
    Could someone - preferable American - tell me why Donald Trump is deserving of becoming the next president. To be more specific, what has his wealth got to do with it? If he were a guy on average earnings no-one would give a **** but because he's an alleged billionaire he's somehow elevated to potential leadership status. It's ridiculous and pathetic.

    He's not, plain and simple. He might well be, certainly in modern times at least, the least qualified and least deserving person to ever seek the office. And that's saying something, considering some of the abysmal people who have run for it in previous years.


    I kinda got the same thing earlier this AM. It seems to me that at various times the most actively pro-Trump voices on this thread, @bondjames, @PanchitoPistoles, and @Mendacious4Lyfe, have admitted that they're not actually eligible to vote in American elections.

    You know how many times I posted in the Brexit thread? None. Zero, zilch, nada. I figured, if I can't vote on this thing any opinion I might form would be meaningless. So I never bothered to formulate on opinion on that topic.

    While I'd hate to see this thread closed, as it is an important topic worth discussing, and I've appreciated the input from @Dalton, @chrisisall, @TripAces, @4EverBonded, and many others -- can we try to limit it to input that's actually, y'know, MEANINGFUL?

    Well said @BeatlesSansEarmuffs

  • fanbond123 wrote: »
    Could someone - preferable American - tell me why Donald Trump is deserving of becoming the next president. To be more specific, what has his wealth got to do with it? If he were a guy on average earnings no-one would give a **** but because he's an alleged billionaire he's somehow elevated to potential leadership status. It's ridiculous and pathetic.

    Trump has not held any political office. His companies have been bankrupt several times, his university is claimed to be a fraud and is going through the courts, he's been accused of rape (!), he's insulted women, he's obsessed with Hillary Clinton and blames her for all the problems with the US when it was TWO REPUBLICAN LEADERS - Bush Snr and Bush Jnr - that were in power during both Gulf wars. Obama inherited the consequences of those wars,9/11, and the rise in terrorist groups, he and H Clinton didn't create 'em! The neo-right caused the problems, not the neo-left.

    But my main point is how weak people are to think money - be it made through fair means or foul - elevates someone, makes them deserving of becoming US President. It's not the quality of their character, it's the quality of their bank balance and I think that is desperately sad. I couldn't care how rich Trump (or H Clinton) are, they both seem totally undeserving of their nominations and I feel the US is morally bankrupt. Heck, I'm sure Michael 'I hate capitalism but I'm stickin' rich from it' Moore could make a good docu-film about the absurd US General Election of 2016.

    It's a cliché but it has the sting of truth it it - sometimes in life we get what we deserve... and I feel the US public is getting what they deserve with Trump and H Clinton.

    It's not about the wealth -- it's about the fame. America is crazy for fame. That's why Andy Warhol promised, "In the future, everybody will be famous for 15 minutes." He didn't promise wealth, he promised fame. If Robert Redford (or for that matter, Harrison Ford) wanted to be President he could have declared for the Democratic nomination 15 minutes before the first primary and he'd be soaking up the applause at the DNC tonight.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    edited July 2016 Posts: 12,480
    Trump is in no way qualified. There is no justification for him as president at all.

    There are clear contrasts between the candidates. Surely that is helpful for helping citizens make up their minds. At least we cannot say they are the same. At all. Oh you say all politicians are crooked? Then go ahead and fix the system better, but that means dealing with politicians anyway, all along. I am hardly ever surprised at politics, the goings on behind the scenes. These are at least two very different candidates; it should not be very difficult to choose.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Hmmm, day #3 of the DNC at first sight seems to be a positive day for the Democrats. Day #3 had already a common theme of foreign policy. The speeches from Joe Biden and especially Barack Obama weighed in on this. But also the remarks yesterday from Donald Trump seem to hand over extra ammunition to the Democrats during the campaign.

    Some articles:
    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/07/donald_trump_isn_t_a_manchurian_candidate_trump_and_putin_are_using_each.html

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/07/27/obama-kaine-pile-on-trump-in-scorching-warm-up-for-closing-night.html

    http://www.foxbusiness.com/politics/2016/07/27/trumps-putin-talk-may-signal-future-friendship.html

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-invites-russia-to-meddle-in-the-us-presidential-race-with-clintons-emails/2016/07/27/a85d799e-5414-11e6-b7de-dfe509430c39_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_russiacampaign-420pm:homepage/story

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/dnc-2016-security-party-214114

    Let's see what happens in the polls three weeks from now :-). At this moment it's a bit too early to tell if 'Trumpism', and with it Trump's latest remarks about Putin and why Russia should hack further, is on the winning side....or the Democrats' optimism becomes the winning campaign message.

    My gut feeling tells me that they will balance each other. Interesting times.
  • Posts: 11,119
    But, to be honest, I love Joe Biden's speech. Such wonderful folksy guy :-):
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 3,566
    Biden was great, no two ways about it. And President Obama's moment at the lectern was very strong as well. But the big surprise success of the evening was Michael Bloomberg's speech -- somebody who runs in the same league as Trump, who has known him for decades, telling us in no uncertain terms that we cannot afford to have this diseased personality as our president. I honestly cannot understand how anybody who has seen the presentations given over the last several nights could even begin to think that Trump is an appropriate candidate for the Oval Office.
  • TripAces wrote: »
    I have friends who are voting for Trump just because they want to see the whole system go to hell. They think it will be "entertaining."

    So far as I can tell, that's the whole appeal of Trump. He's entertaining. It's an act he's spent his whole lifetime perfecting...while Hillary has spent her lifetime working to make people's lives better. Now we get to decide whether we want a President who'll make the American experience seem like a session playing Grand Theft Auto...or somebody who's actually going to be spending her time trying to improve the quality of life for the American public.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    TripAces wrote: »
    I have friends who are voting for Trump just because they want to see the whole system go to hell. They think it will be "entertaining."

    So far as I can tell, that's the whole appeal of Trump. He's entertaining. It's an act he's spent his whole lifetime perfecting...while Hillary has spent her lifetime working to make people's lives better. Now we get to decide whether we want a President who'll make the American experience seem like a session playing Grand Theft Auto...or somebody who's actually going to be spending her time trying to improve the quality of life for the American public.

    :)) Attack Trump if you have to, but please don't portray Hillary as some sort of great humanitarian of our times. Just because someone doesn't make outrageous statements in public, doesn't mean they won't put the interests of the corporations they work for above the will of the people. Don't you think all these companies helping her win will want something in return once she's in office?
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,619
    @Gustav_Graves Please listen to this 1 minute clip: http://web.archive.org/web/20051118225131/http://www.kaine2005.org/media/radio/radio_ad_conservative_1.mp3

    This is Hillary's VP pick. Pro death penalty, anti-abortion and anti- same sex marriage. The guy is more conservative than Trump!
    OUR style of unity (where differences are acknowledged and worked out)
    "The DNC has also informed Sanders delegates that they will have their credentials taken away for holding up anti-TPP signage as well"


    =))
    Attack Trump if you have to, but please don't portray Hillary as some sort of great humanitarian of our times.
    Exactly. People who believe that Rodham Clinton is a humanitarian should start by reading up on what she and her people did in Haiti (and I don't mean the wage suppression, that's just distraction).
  • "The DNC has also informed Sanders delegates that they will have their credentials taken away for holding up anti-TPP signage as well"

    You evidently haven't been watching DNC coverage, I've seen lots of anti-TPP signage in the crowd. Once again, I suspect we're just living in alternate universes to each other.

    And from your perspective in that alternate universe, please tell me: How is it that the Donald Trump who has stiffed NUMEROUS contractors who have done work for him over the decades has suddenly become the friend of the working man?
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    But, to be honest, I love Joe Biden's speech. Such wonderful folksy guy :-):
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    "The DNC has also informed Sanders delegates that they will have their credentials taken away for holding up anti-TPP signage as well"

    You evidently haven't been watching DNC coverage, I've seen lots of anti-TPP signage in the crowd. Once again, I suspect we're just living in alternate universes to each other.

    And from your perspective in that alternate universe, please tell me: How is it that the Donald Trump who has stiffed NUMEROUS contractors who have done work for him over the decades has suddenly become the friend of the working man?

    How is it that anti-gay marriage Hillary has suddenly become the champion of the LGBT community?
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    TripAces wrote: »
    I have friends who are voting for Trump just because they want to see the whole system go to hell. They think it will be "entertaining."

    So far as I can tell, that's the whole appeal of Trump. He's entertaining. It's an act he's spent his whole lifetime perfecting...while Hillary has spent her lifetime working to make people's lives better. Now we get to decide whether we want a President who'll make the American experience seem like a session playing Grand Theft Auto...or somebody who's actually going to be spending her time trying to improve the quality of life for the American public.

    :)) Attack Trump if you have to, but please don't portray Hillary as some sort of great humanitarian of our times. Just because someone doesn't make outrageous statements in public, doesn't mean they won't put the interests of the corporations they work for above the will of the people. Don't you think all these companies helping her win will want something in return once she's in office?

    You know, I think there's a difference between defenders of Trump and defenders of Clinton. The Clinton defenders are more prone to a healthy sense of self-criticism and indeed criticism of their own candidate.

    I can be considered a Clinton backer. Actually, I admire her. Perhaps it is because she grew up in a difficult family in which her father mentally bullied her mother...and herself. Clinton's mother used to say "Always fight back, get back up on your feet!". Her childhood is, sadly, part of how she is now. It perhaps made her charisma-wise more 'distant' and cold as opposed to Kennedy, Reagan or Obama.

    And although I admire her fighting, she does need to work on her overall appeal. Really, try to give some more press conferences to the media, which is a thing Donald Trump actually does more often! And don't be afraid of showing a bit more emotions at times. It may result in more empathy for you and your work in public office. And please don't succumb to a lack of transparency. It could hunt you once you actually become Madam President.

    So, regardless of my support for Hillary, I do criticize her (And even as a pro-EU supporter, I do criticize people like Juncker). So I'm worried about some key character traits of Hillary as well. But, that's my criticism towards Clinton. Because, so far I have only seen @BondJames criticizing Donald Trump. And that stings me a bit. I respect @BondJames for his criticism towards Trump, despite our huge differences in opinions. Because most other Trump supporters in here don't seem able to sum up any negative traits of Donald Trump. Nor do they have any nuance in their remarks by criticizing Donald Trump for his biggest flaws (@Mendes4Lyfe, @PanchitoPistoles....read my lips).

    And I do find that dangerous. Criticism towards leaders or candidates is in many ways a core principle of our democracy. Not just towards people on the other isle, but also in our own camp. And once we blatantly abandon that and blindly follow our 'favorites', we sooner or later get into trouble. Do Putin-supporters criticize Putin? No. Do Chinese people openly criticize their leader Jinping? No. Is Mr Erdogan currently receiving criticism from his own opposition? No. And then the bomb bursts if a demagogue and dictator like Maduro never listens to all the people he represents? Ooowh Yes.

    Yesterday, one man perfectly verbalized my problems in today's society. Mr Bloomberg is a billionaire, like Trump. And in fact both Trump and Bloomberg can be considered independents. But at least Bloomberg was and is smart enough to change party platforms for the sake of re-assessing his views. I find that a strength. He dares to be critical within and at the platform he is part of. But he does so in such a different way as opposed to Trump:
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 4,619
    "The DNC has also informed Sanders delegates that they will have their credentials taken away for holding up anti-TPP signage as well"

    You evidently haven't been watching DNC coverage, I've seen lots of anti-TPP signage in the crowd.
    Are you for real? Yes, there are anti-TPP signage in the crowd, but how does that disprove the fact that they were trying to make people not to use them?
    The Clinton defenders are more prone to a healthy sense of self-criticism and indeed criticism of their own candidate.
    Of course. Clinton is so corrupt that even her most ardent supporters realize that she is very far from perfect.
  • "Attack Trump if you have to..." Am I attacking Trump? No, I'm just mocking him. True attacks are generally a bit more violent than anything I've attempted here.

    A lesson from American history for those who could use to learn a little more: Woody Guthrie was a great American folksinger and songwriter, whose contributions to the American songbook include such indisputable classics as "This Land is Your Land." Well prior to WWII, Woody emblazoned the following phrase on his guitar: "This Machine Kills Fascists." Now, I'm not claiming to be anywhere near as powerful as Mr. Guthrie...but my computer boasts the following phrase: "This Machine Mocks Fascists."

    Attract my attention at your peril...
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    "Attack Trump if you have to..." Am I attacking Trump? No, I'm just mocking him. True attacks are generally a bit more violent than anything I've attempted here.

    A lesson from American history for those who could use to learn a little more: Woody Guthrie was a great American folksinger and songwriter, whose contributions to the American songbook include such indisputable classics as "This Land is Your Land." Well prior to WWII, Woody emblazoned the following phrase on his guitar: "This Machine Kills Fascists." Now, I'm not claiming to be anywhere near as powerful as Mr. Guthrie...but my computer boasts the following phrase: "This Machine Mocks Fascists."

    Attract my attention at your peril...

    Spooky. Did ol' Woody have anything to say about corporate stooges?
  • Posts: 4,619
    @Gustav_Graves Biden is a creepy old pervert:
  • Posts: 11,119
    @Gustav_Graves Biden is a creepy old pervert:

    Has The Donald taken over @PanchitoPistoles account? Moderators? Please? There might be a hack :-).
  • Posts: 4,619
    @Gustav_Graves Can you please address this one minute Tim Kaine clip?http://web.archive.org/web/20051118225131/http://www.kaine2005.org/media/radio/radio_ad_conservative_1.mp3

    How can you support a candidate who has chosen someone who is pro death penalty, anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage as her running mate?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    Remember the old phrase "lesbian until graduation"? Maybe Hillary is "liberal until inauguration". :))
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 3,566
    "The DNC has also informed Sanders delegates that they will have their credentials taken away for holding up anti-TPP signage as well"

    You evidently haven't been watching DNC coverage, I've seen lots of anti-TPP signage in the crowd.
    Are you for real? Yes, there are anti-TPP signage in the crowd, but how does that disprove the fact that they were trying to make people not to use them?

    And how is it inappropriate for the Democratic National Convention to try to manage the message they present? What the signage being there, on camera, proves is that the DNC is more open to diversity of opinion than the RNC, where Ted Cruz's wife had to be escorted out of the facility for her own safety.

  • edited July 2016 Posts: 3,566
    @Gustav_Graves Biden is a creepy old pervert:

    My, our discourse has gotten a bit coarse here. Let's take this just a step further: Takes one to...naw, let's not.
  • @Gustav_Graves Can you please address this one minute Tim Kaine clip?http://web.archive.org/web/20051118225131/http://www.kaine2005.org/media/radio/radio_ad_conservative_1.mp3

    How can you support a candidate who has chosen someone who is pro death penalty, anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage as her running mate?

    I'll address it so no one else has to: please note that it's a clip FROM 2005 -- and consider that thinking, functioning human beings are allowed to have their views change and adapt over time. Got any more 11 year old breaking news you'd like to share? Oh, and in breaking news: Donald Trump still hasn't paid all those contractors he stiffed dating all the way back to the '70s.
  • Posts: 4,619
    I'll address it so no one else has to: please note that it's a clip FROM 2005

    It's not like Kaine was a teenager back than and now he is a mature man. He was already 47 back in 2005.
  • "Attack Trump if you have to..." Am I attacking Trump? No, I'm just mocking him. True attacks are generally a bit more violent than anything I've attempted here.

    A lesson from American history for those who could use to learn a little more: Woody Guthrie was a great American folksinger and songwriter, whose contributions to the American songbook include such indisputable classics as "This Land is Your Land." Well prior to WWII, Woody emblazoned the following phrase on his guitar: "This Machine Kills Fascists." Now, I'm not claiming to be anywhere near as powerful as Mr. Guthrie...but my computer boasts the following phrase: "This Machine Mocks Fascists."

    Attract my attention at your peril...

    Spooky. Did ol' Woody have anything to say about corporate stooges?

    Funny you should ask. Yes, Woody wrote a blistering attack song about Donald's father, Fred, called "Old Man Trump" -- outlining the racist policies of the elder Drumpf. Any more set-ups you'd like to hand me? I can do this all night...

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,399
    @Gustav_Graves Can you please address this one minute Tim Kaine clip?http://web.archive.org/web/20051118225131/http://www.kaine2005.org/media/radio/radio_ad_conservative_1.mp3

    How can you support a candidate who has chosen someone who is pro death penalty, anti-abortion and anti-gay marriage as her running mate?

    I'll address it so no one else has to: please note that it's a clip FROM 2005 -- and consider that thinking, functioning human beings are allowed to have their views change and adapt over time. Got any more 11 year old breaking news you'd like to share? Oh, and in breaking news: Donald Trump still hasn't paid all those contractors he stiffed dating all the way back to the '70s.

    And all these "scandals" you endlessly bring up from Trumps past all took place yesterday?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited July 2016 Posts: 8,399
    "Attack Trump if you have to..." Am I attacking Trump? No, I'm just mocking him. True attacks are generally a bit more violent than anything I've attempted here.

    A lesson from American history for those who could use to learn a little more: Woody Guthrie was a great American folksinger and songwriter, whose contributions to the American songbook include such indisputable classics as "This Land is Your Land." Well prior to WWII, Woody emblazoned the following phrase on his guitar: "This Machine Kills Fascists." Now, I'm not claiming to be anywhere near as powerful as Mr. Guthrie...but my computer boasts the following phrase: "This Machine Mocks Fascists."

    Attract my attention at your peril...

    Spooky. Did ol' Woody have anything to say about corporate stooges?

    Funny you should ask. Yes, Woody wrote a blistering attack song about Donald's father, Fred, called "Old Man Trump" -- outlining the racist policies of the elder Drumpf. Any more set-ups you'd like to hand me? I can do this all night...

    You do know what a corporate stooge is, right? You seem to think it has something to do with racism. Deary me.
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