The Next American President Thread (2016)

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    bondjames wrote: »
    and don't help their cause, especially when one bunch almost burned themselves alive while attempting their little stunt.
    That's called Darwinism.
    =))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    link to live commentary of the 4th and final night of Democratic convention.
    A slew of lesser known speakers now; another hour or so before we get the more heavyweight speakers, however you want to term that. Anyway, you can follow it all here ... http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/07/28/us/elections/dnc-speakers.html
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,585
    TripAces wrote: »

    For what offense, exactly? Using a personal email server is not illegal. It's just stupid. And no matter how much you really, really, really WANT proof that Clinton intentionally sent classified info to the wrong hands, it's not there. Because she didn't.

    She sent classified information regarding "Benghazi", to her daughter.
    While not illegal, was caught lying multiple times saying the attack was based off of a YouTube video...

    600 plus emails of her denying extra security for "Benghazi", while sure it's unfair to directly blame her for terrorist murdering people, she could've authorized extra security. If there was an increased security presence and if Obama and her really had direct knowledge then those people would still be alive.

    That alone will cause her to lose the election. Not a hater just facts.

    Not a crazy big trump fan but he's different and we need Americans need change and something different.

    Also get rid of ObamaCare

    @CASINOROYALE

    Wrong on those facts.

    1. Regarding Chelsea: No. She did not send classified info to her: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/01/08/with-2-a-m-state-department-email-trove-82-percent-of-clinton-emails-now-released/

    2. Regarding the You Tube video: State and the Obama administration worked off what turned out to be conflicting intel. That said, HRC herself NEVER said the attacks were simply caused by a video. She had framed it within context. (Shall we look at the ignored intel that the Bush administration had in its hands regarding 9/11 attacks?)

    3. No evidence, in any of her emails, in any of the info gathered across all of the investigations, that HRC and Obama ever denied "extra security." https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/10/21/fact-checking-the-benghazi-attacks-2/

    Regardless, neither of the false allegations in #2 and #3 (even if proven true) is an offense worthy of prison time.

    Here is the problem with conservatives, and it has been the problem for decades. You start with the conclusion (in this case, that Hillary Clinton is a shameful, lying, conniving, corrupt B) and then work backwards to gather (and even manufacture) evidence to support the conclusion that you so desperately need to be true. It happens again and again. This is due to the conservative mindset, which is based on beliefs and not truths. Every aspect of right-wing ideology comes from theological, economic, and social theories that they think are "truths" and can't tolerate it when those precious theories are proven by science, human progress, and just about everything else to be flat-out wrong. Bottom line is, the truths conservatives "believe" are nothing more than fabricated constructs.

    But back to Benghazi and "facts," because you might either A) Not remember; B) Have conveniently forgotten; and C) might just be too young and naive to know. Read the below article about the 1983 attack on the Beirut embassy that left 241 men dead. 241. Not 4. 241. And then research how many hearings the Democrats held thereafter. Were the Democrats smarter? Or just acting like adults? Or both? You tell me.

    http://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/ronald-reagans-benghazi
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Good one, Trip.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,480
    Hillary is speaking live right now. It has been - the whole convention, including tonight of course - such a complete contrast to the RNC with Trump. Starkly different.
  • chrisisall wrote: »

    Gosh, @chrisisall, where DID you find that rude, rude pundit? =))
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    @bondjames thanks for your earlier reply. I too am too busy following everything here, but it gave me some more background to the man.

    Anyway, all I take away from this is that the democrats are more positive, have far better speach writers, and at least seem to care about their fellow countrymen. I found it heartwarming that both Obama and Clinton thanked Sanders.

    I can understand people not caring for Clinton, but I can't understand that would lead to a vote for Trump. As I said before, the risks are too great.

    Oh, and by the way, America isn't the greatest country in the world, living in any of the scandinavian countries is far better >:)
  • @bondjames thanks for your earlier reply. I too am too busy following everything here, but it gave me some more background to the man.

    Anyway, all I take away from this is that the democrats are more positive, have far better speach writers, and at least seem to care about their fellow countrymen. I found it heartwarming that both Obama and Clinton thanked Sanders.

    I can understand people not caring for Clinton, but I can't understand that would lead to a vote for Trump. As I said before, the risks are too great.

    Oh, and by the way, America isn't the greatest country in the world, living in any of the scandinavian countries is far better >:)

    And somehow, nobody's looking to the Scandinavian countries to carry the lead in the fight against terrorism... ;)
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Ah, so the 'greatest country in the world'means the one with the biggest muscles? wasn't quite aware. Well, in that case: China is the greatest country in the world!!! >:) ;-)
  • Ah, so the 'greatest country in the world'means the one with the biggest muscles? wasn't quite aware. Well, in that case: China is the greatest country in the world!!! >:) ;-)

    So why isn't anybody expecting China to destroy Islamic Terrorism? :-/
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    Ah, so the 'greatest country in the world'means the one with the biggest muscles? wasn't quite aware. Well, in that case: China is the greatest country in the world!!! >:) ;-)

    So why isn't anybody expecting China to destroy Islamic Terrorism? :-/

    Beats me. They're probably too busy selling the Americans beats and mirrors... eh... I mean plastic toys.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    My quick views on the Dem Convention. Going into this I had expected an A+ (a bit unrealistic perhaps). I rated the Republican one a B, and I rate this one a solid B+.

    My expectations were higher, given the star political talent available to them, it was very glitzy and much more professionally polished than the opposition, which was as expected. She will get a convention bounce out of this, and will go into a slight lead in a week imho.

    Where it fell flat for me was in explaining a clear vision for the country in clarified terms. Where they did express a vision, it was mainly in contrast to, and fear of Trump, as opposed to something that stood alone. So even though there was an attempt to portray the candidate as a 'change maker', the change that was being proposed in all the speeches was essentially a 'please do not elect that 'f' Trump' vision as far as I could tell - at least in terms of 'messaging'.

    Moreover, nearly all the speakers of note were more interesting / charismatic and dynamic than the eventual nominee, who was overshadowed by her myriad supporters, despite the historic nature of her 'first woman' candidacy. The only other time I've felt this in my memory was with Palin in '08 (who overshadowed McCain), Obama in '04 (who stole the entire Convention from the nominee) and Clinton in '00 (who upstaged Gore). This is again, in stark contrast to the Republican convention, where the entire side show built up to the main event by the man himself.

    I still believe this will all come down to the debates (most probably that first one), and who does a better job of it. Trump benefits from very low expectations (which he himself is feeding), so he has an advantage in my opinion.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 3,566
    Hillary isn't the speechmaker that her husband is. She's not comfortable in that position -- he lives for it. She IS very skilled at debates, she's great at facts & figures and promoting a plan. Trump's entire technique at debates is: "I'm gonna make things SO GREAT. Believe Me." I hope the debates are scheduled somewhere with a very dirty floor because Hillary's gonna mop the floor with the Donald. (BTW, the International Brotherhood of Guys Named Don just sent the Trump Campaign a registered letter of complaint. They want their name back. He's not the only guy who's entitled to use it -- where does he get off calling himself THE Donald? Maybe the folks at Disney need to get involved -- they've got a guy named Donald too, and his buddy Mickey has some real sharks for lawyers. I mean literally. Or cartoonishly. They're sharks. Wearing suits. Let's get them involved...)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    She doesn't have to be a great speech maker, but the overwhelming impression I get from her is 'I want to be president because I'm more qualified for the job'. Not because she's selling anything inspiring for the country.

    So when she rips Trump for being negative about the direction the nation is going in, I don't really hear anything more positive coming from her (again in terms of overall messaging). In that respect, she is indirectly feeding the perception that she is 'status quo', even though they are denying it.

    Again, regarding those debates - the Dem's have built this up that Trump is going to fall flat on his face. That's what he wants I think. They've played into that narrative. Now he has to blow her out of the water. Whether he can or not is a big question (I rate his chances at 40/60 because he is so unpredictable). If he does, I think this election will be over on that night.

    PS: I really believe they've made a mistake by making this about Trump. He is just a messenger for a portion of the electorate (just like Bernie was). For a mood in the country. They had to address and answer that mood, and this is where I don't think they succeeded this week.
  • bondjames wrote: »
    She doesn't have to be a great speech maker, but the overwhelming impression I get from her is 'I want to be president because I'm more qualified for the job'. Not because she's selling anything inspiring for the country.

    So when she rips Trump for being negative about the direction the nation is going in, I don't really hear anything more positive coming from her (again in terms of overall messaging). In that respect, she is indirectly feeding the perception that she is 'status quo', even though they are denying it.

    Again, regarding those debates - the Dem's have built this up that Trump is going to fall flat on his face. That's what he wants I think. They've played into that narrative. Now he has to blow her out of the water. Whether he can or not is a big question (I rate his chances at 40/60 because he is so unpredictable). If he does, I think this election will be over on that night.

    PS: I really believe they've made a mistake by making this about Trump. He is just a messenger for a portion of the electorate (just like Bernie was). For a mood in the country. They had to address and answer that mood, and this is where I don't think they succeeded this week.

    I have to question if you're actually listening to what Hillary was saying, or just "automatically gainsaying the other's position." Hillary had a whole laundry list of positive things she wants to do. Whether or not she can accomplish them depends a whole lot on how cooperative the Republicans are going to feel when Madame President comes knocking...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    She doesn't have to be a great speech maker, but the overwhelming impression I get from her is 'I want to be president because I'm more qualified for the job'. Not because she's selling anything inspiring for the country.

    So when she rips Trump for being negative about the direction the nation is going in, I don't really hear anything more positive coming from her (again in terms of overall messaging). In that respect, she is indirectly feeding the perception that she is 'status quo', even though they are denying it.

    Again, regarding those debates - the Dem's have built this up that Trump is going to fall flat on his face. That's what he wants I think. They've played into that narrative. Now he has to blow her out of the water. Whether he can or not is a big question (I rate his chances at 40/60 because he is so unpredictable). If he does, I think this election will be over on that night.

    PS: I really believe they've made a mistake by making this about Trump. He is just a messenger for a portion of the electorate (just like Bernie was). For a mood in the country. They had to address and answer that mood, and this is where I don't think they succeeded this week.

    I have to question if you're actually listening to what Hillary was saying, or just "automatically gainsaying the other's position." Hillary had a whole laundry list of positive things she wants to do. Whether or not she can accomplish them depends a whole lot on how cooperative the Republicans are going to feel when Madame President comes knocking...
    I am listening, and this is not about me. I'm just an observer. You're correct that she had a laundry list. That's the problem. Is this a laundry list election? Where's the overall vision and direction? What's the goal? This kind of approach was ok in the 90's when everything was hunky dory, but is that how people feel now? This is the question imho.

    I don't think the messaging was clear enough out of the Dem's convention. It was very clear out of the Repub's convention (whatever you may think of that message).

    Yes, ultimately, Hillary's success will depend on how well she works with the other side. She has been more successful in her roles than when she is campaigning (as she correctly noted during her Charlie Rose interview). She does indeed work well with the Repubs when in a 'junior' role. Will they accept and work with her as president though, or will they go out of their way to demonize her?
  • Posts: 2,491
    So surpisingly I haven't posted anything in this thread.

    I predicted this a year ago and a lot of people didn't beleive me cause of all her scandals but no matter what you want to happen Hillary will be the next president of USA.
  • RE: "All her scandals" -- I'll be posting something about Clinton Derangement Syndrome here in the next few days. Basically, "all her scandals" are the results of 25 years' worth of Republicans ranting and raving and TRYING DESPERATELY to find something they can use to discredit her. Hasn't worked yet, but The Big Lie has to be tried over & over & over again to have any hope of success. She ain't in jail yet, sorry Hillaryhaters. I'm sure you'll keep trying...
  • Posts: 11,119
    I don’t think name calling has any place in public life, and I thought that was unfortunate that the president of the United States would use a term like that, let alone laced into a sentence like that.”

    — Gov. Mike Pence, in an interview with Hugh Hewitt, objecting to President Obama calling Donald Trump a “demagogue.”
  • I don’t think name calling has any place in public life, and I thought that was unfortunate that the president of the United States would use a term like that, let alone laced into a sentence like that.”

    — Gov. Mike Pence, in an interview with Hugh Hewitt, objecting to President Obama calling Donald Trump a “demagogue.”

    I wonder how he feels about all the folks calling Trump "Traitor"?

    "Lying" and "Crooked" and so forth are all fair game, of course...
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Speaking as an outsider, American politics does seem to have a lot of name calling
    In it. ( From both sides )
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Speaking as an outsider, American politics does seem to have a lot of name calling
    In it. ( From both sides )
    F**K you, a**hole!


  • Posts: 1,631
    I don’t think name calling has any place in public life, and I thought that was unfortunate that the president of the United States would use a term like that, let alone laced into a sentence like that.”

    — Gov. Mike Pence, in an interview with Hugh Hewitt, objecting to President Obama calling Donald Trump a “demagogue.”

    I wonder how he feels about all the folks calling Trump "Traitor"?

    "Lying" and "Crooked" and so forth are all fair game, of course...

    I'm fairly certain that Pence does feel that such things don't have a place in politics, as I've heard him make the claim before. His problem, though, is that he's sold out in order to save his political career. He was going to have a difficult time winning re-election in Indiana, so he jumped ship in the hope that Trump could save his political career after countless others turned down Trump's VP offers. The Trump/Pence combo really is a marriage of desperation, for both of them.

  • edited July 2016 Posts: 3,566


    Best speech of the whole darn convention season. Fox News cut away from it, of course...
  • Speaking as an outsider, American politics does seem to have a lot of name calling
    In it. ( From both sides )

    Hey, all the rules have been thrown out the window. It's Trump's World now. Shut up and he'll maybe let you live in it.
  • Posts: 7,507
    @bondjames thanks for your earlier reply. I too am too busy following everything here, but it gave me some more background to the man.

    Anyway, all I take away from this is that the democrats are more positive, have far better speach writers, and at least seem to care about their fellow countrymen. I found it heartwarming that both Obama and Clinton thanked Sanders.

    I can understand people not caring for Clinton, but I can't understand that would lead to a vote for Trump. As I said before, the risks are too great.

    Oh, and by the way, America isn't the greatest country in the world, living in any of the scandinavian countries is far better >:)

    And somehow, nobody's looking to the Scandinavian countries to carry the lead in the fight against terrorism... ;)


    I wonder why you assume the world expects the US to "lead in the fight against terrorism"? On the contrary we pray every day that you will not yet again do something stupid that just messes up everything...
  • You neglect to notice the smiley icon at the end of the comment, @jobo. I was being somewhat facetious.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    jobo wrote: »
    I wonder why you assume the world expects the US to "lead in the fight against terrorism"? On the contrary we pray every day that you will not yet again do something stupid that just messes up everything...

    We are World Police! tm
    And whaddya mean "mess up everything?" We offer the world ORDER!! Just, y'know, in a sort of chaotic & self-serving way...
    :-\"
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    jobo wrote: »
    @bondjames thanks for your earlier reply. I too am too busy following everything here, but it gave me some more background to the man.

    Anyway, all I take away from this is that the democrats are more positive, have far better speach writers, and at least seem to care about their fellow countrymen. I found it heartwarming that both Obama and Clinton thanked Sanders.

    I can understand people not caring for Clinton, but I can't understand that would lead to a vote for Trump. As I said before, the risks are too great.

    Oh, and by the way, America isn't the greatest country in the world, living in any of the scandinavian countries is far better >:)

    And somehow, nobody's looking to the Scandinavian countries to carry the lead in the fight against terrorism... ;)


    I wonder why you assume the world expects the US to "lead in the fight against terrorism"? On the contrary we pray every day that you will not yet again do something stupid that just messes up everything...
    There's really not much hope here. It's after all the biggest economic export (war, that is) outside of 'freedom' and 'democracy'.
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