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Comments
I didn't know you swung that way. ;)
Oh Mien Gott zee British sense of humour!
PMQs seemed like one last hurrah, as a group they keep hammering on about the economy with nothing new, its all been said and its clear that the public have their own agenda. DC keeps listing all of the experts and groups who say we should stay in. If it's that clear, then why is it so close? The implication is that around half of the voters are stupid. Of course, the truth is that his priorities are out of line with the voters but it's too late to admit that.
The UK auto sector hit record levels of production in 2015. I.e. the UK made more cars in 2015 than ever before. Hardly a ship that's sailed (unlike our fishing industry).
True it's foreign owned but that's the nature of a globalised economy. Car makers amd their suppliers still employ hundreds of thousands of people in the UK and the UK car sector is actually seen as one of our few manufacturing successes over the last few years.
If all you care about is 100% British owned businesses then you don't understand the basics of the global economy. A huge part of the British economy is based on British investments overseas - including massive amounts of investment in the EU. Equally, the UK benefits hugely from inward investment from the likes of TAta. TAta have basically saved the last major British car marques from oblivion and turned Land Rover in particualr into an amazing exporting success story for the UK.
That's what successful economies do, whether they are in or out of the EU.
I really don't understand what your vision is for the UK. You seem to want to take us back to 1950s.
Make any decisions any more, just rubber stamp the directives.
So you are saying that it is possible to be a successful economy outside the EU?
Just not us.
This is just an old canard. It's not the French or German or British or anyone's vision for Europe any more. Your flogging a dead horse.
Even the president of the EU commision has said the idea of a superstate is a fantasy.
It may be the nature of the business in the UK but not in other countries, Germany seems to have companies building cars in Germany, its not right to use globalisation as a cover up for the obvious decline in our car industry. We had and own some of the greatest brands in the World (Mini, Land Rover, etc) and where are they know. And we all know there is no reverse situation with UK firms out there buying international brands.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23406467
https://www.amazon.co.uk/British-Leyland-Motor-Corporation-1968-2005/dp/0750961449/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1466011536&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=british+leyalnd
And the decline of Austin/Rover is simply not down to globalisation, it was appalling management, poor R and D and out dated working practices.
I often wonder if a Martian landed and looked at the mass of German and Japanese cars on UK roads, would they guess which countries were defeated in 1945? There is still a train of thought that the efforts of WW2 caused serious damage to the UK that we will never recover from and I have some sympathy with that view. But I digress
No I am not saying that.
But leaving is very different from never having joined.
I do actually believe there is future scenario where the UK outside the UK could be doing fine. I am not someone who believes the UK cannot be a success - either in or out.
I just think being out makes it needlessly harder for the UK to compete in Europe and globally.
In order to do well outside the EU we would still need access to the single market and we have been told repeatedly now that we will not get better terms of access to the single market once we leave than we have now - that is common sense.
This for me goes to the core of why leaving is so utterly pointless. Why leave the EU (where we have excellent terms of membership) only to sit outside and still be subject to all its rules and regulations and make payments into it (as we would have to, like Norway, to be to access the single market).
It's just completely and utterly pointless and would leave us with LESS influence over the single market (to which we make 50% of our exports) than we do now.
Some sectors like Finance, upon which we are massively dependant will be particularly hard hit, as the EU will be able to actively discriminate against the City of London.
Why do it? Give one single reason for why it makes any rational sense?
I've seen you criticise the blind faith of religion on here many times, and that's what Brexit sounds like to me - dogmatic, irrational blind faith in something for which there is no rational or substantive case or proof - I.e. A single shred of evidence that leaving will make the UK better off in any single respect.
Even you've admitted that all its about is sticking two fingers to the 'elite'.
Whoopy.
Yes we can leave. Yes the UK (or at least a rump of England, Wales and N.I.) could be successful on their own. But leaving actually makes the job of makin the UK a success a lot harder. And for zero benefit from leaving.
So why are they still handing out the Charlemagne prize then?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charlemagne_Prize
Junckers may have said it was an ideal unattainaeble, but I.e. Matteo Renzi, the Italian prime minister, no doubt soon to be commisioner in Europe, is surely still striving for an USE.
They're used to English invasions by now...
Again, what about Scotland and Northern-Ireland? En nu even serieus.
http://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/nicola-sturgeon-brexit-would-leave-scots-at-risk-from-tory-right-1-4154951
Pretty sure the Scottish will want another referendum if we leave the EU.
It will causes issues in Northern Ireland as well.
But this is not good.
You are quite correct in all that you say.
The trouble is voting stay will be taken as Cameron and the EU that we are happy with the status quo.
It's not so much having blind faith in Brexit, more having a lack of faith in the current system and people running it.
If I could be persuaded that if we vote in the EU will heed the near miss of us going and look at serious reform then fine.
But we only have one option on the ballet paper to register a protest. Cutting off our nose to spite our face? Quite possibly but if there's even a 10% chance that it will act as wake up call to politics then I'm happy to take a punt.
Anyway, regardless of that letter, I also want to dig into a little bit of history with you. Many times I heard both Prime Minister Cameron and Boris Johnson mentioning your great Winston Churchill. I am sometimes a bit disappointed that both politicians quote Churchill at will, but fail to take the quotes from the late Winston Churchill out of context....out of the context of the time/period they were spoken out.
I love history. And many times I have been criticised by that. But please take a little time with me by travelling back to 1948. Three years after the Second World War there was a big Summitt in which the unification of Europe was discussed; the so called 'European Union Conference'. 23 nations gathered in The Hague, The Netherlands. And this is what Winston Churchill had to say:
Any country that thinks Bridget Jones, One Direction and Eastenders constitute British culture is not one I want to be joined to.
I'm definitely voting out now.
I am all for some period Bond movies
Have you read some of Churchill's biographies. In essence, he experienced two big world wars. And as a politician he lived through the difficult years of world War 1. At least, for Churchill personally, he wanted the UK to be part of such a union very much so. But within a decade or so after 1948, the establishment of his Conservative Party started to question his desire.