The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

1151618202162

Comments

  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Why is Bond not mentioned in that article? Credibility lost immediately imho.

    Don't take it as a normal article, it's just an emotional letter. If The Sun can give such trivial, emotional arguments, then why not your dearest overseas neighbors. Be a bit charmed by it. It's a mere "I love you", so no reason to question that.
  • And we 'love you too', we just don't want to be members of the same club anymore. ;;)
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 11,119
    And we 'love you too', we just don't want to be members of the same club anymore. ;;)

    Culturally we do share a lot >:D<

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_III_of_England
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-560614/The-1688-invasion-Britain-thats-erased-history.html
    This acquiescence to a foreignborn prince seizing the throne i]Dutch King William III of Orange[/i , was helped, Professor Jardine argues, because Britain and Holland had for many years shared a common cultural heritage.



    In arts and architecture, science and technology, the two countries had become close, their bond sealed by their shared Protestant faith.



    Hence, the invasion of one by the other did not seem so radical and dangerous. It was not as if the dreaded French or Spanish had taken over.



    In the aftermath of the Dutch conquest, that cross-fertilisation increased but as very much a one-way traffic.



    Dutch talent flowed into England, its effects still to be seen in painting, buildings and in the formal gardens that were a speciality of the Netherlands.



    Even the Royal ' Orange' Kew Palace at Kew Gardens, near London, is a testimony for that. The architecture of the small city palace is a slightly more glorious copy of many of the Amsterdam canal houses.
    Kew-Palace-2156.jpg


    The incomers also brought banking methods that transformed London as a commercial centre.



    The result was that Britain boomed, becoming a rich and powerful nation after 1688, while the Netherlands remained a European backwater.



    It caused resentment in Holland that, in Jardine's words, their glory had been "plundered" by the British.



    And, indeed, the enduring Dutch influence on the culture of this country has been remarkable.



    Sadly it is not the whole story. Not all of the habits that the Dutch brought to Britain were beneficial. Their national drink, gin, very quickly outstripped beer.



    Within half a century, half of the 15,000 watering holes in Georgian London were dens dispensing cheap and lethally strong "mother's ruin". The social consequences were catastrophic.



    It is a curious footnote in the Dutch conquest of Britain 320 years ago - an invasion that, according to our history, never really happened - that one of its unintended imports was the curse of binge-drinking.


    So before we start belittling internationalism, one has to properly understand its own history. Thanks in part to The Netherlands there is still quite a bit of Dutch culture visible in British society.

    Similarly, the European Union also imported some very good core values to Britain. The ongoing EU-relationship between the UK and mainland Europe resulted in a thriving financial hub, the London City.

    With that in mind it is slightly ridiculous to paint off the above Dutch letter to urge our British brothers and sisters to stay in the EU as 'bullocks'.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2016 Posts: 9,117

    So before we start belittling internationalism, one has to properly understand its own history. Thanks in part to The Netherlands there is still quite a bit of Dutch culture visible in British society.

    Similarly, the European Union also imported some very good core values to Britain. The ongoing EU-relationship between the UK and mainland Europe resulted in a thriving financial hub, the London City.

    With that in mind it is slightly ridiculous to paint off the above Dutch letter to urge our British brothers and sisters to stay in the EU as 'bullocks'.

    And there are still Roman remains and lots of Latin incorporated into the language.

    Doesn't mean we want to have circuses with people fighting wild animals these days - although I personally would be up for that; would be an entertaining way to deal with the immigrant problem (that's a joke by the way before those of you who don't understand British humour start writing in).

    I don't really follow your argument that we should stay in the EU due to the historical vestiges of culture left over from centuries of wars, empires and invasions.

    We should as much be in the EU on that logic as we should breakaway and form a separate Viking Union with Denmark and Norway.

    And presume you're fine then with Putin taking back Crimea on the same basis because culturally that has only been Ukrainian for 50 years?

    And if you're such a fan of British culture the word you're after is 'bollocks'. Which is aposite in this case.
  • I & all the others are not anti multiculture, I love diversity, I just do not believe that the EU is the way forward for Britain, that's all, simple.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    edited June 2016 Posts: 8,266
    T
    13479407_10102115418786205_2082156241_n.jpg?oh=94e7ba911bc7565ee540b4059aef8980&oe=5763CE4E

    My main gripe with this article is that the writer apparently doesn't know how to make proper tea! FFS tea isn't bitter if you make it with properly cooking water! It's the reason I always bring a can of it with me to the office, so I can actually drink tea instead of lukewarm water with a bag in it.

    We should as much be in the EU on that logic as we should breakaway and form a separate Viking Union with Denmark and Norway.
    Hell, if you're inviting the Swedes to, we want to join in as well!

    Like the Irish fans said to the Swedish fans:

  • edited June 2016 Posts: 4,617
    The letter forgot to mention drunk footy fans!

    check out the link below, confirming that immigration is the most important issue and a small minority believe Osborne anyway. So DC has focused on the wrong issue and they cant win that issue anyway due to lack of trust. I was at the Olympics in 2012 and Osborne was their giving out medals, as he stepped up, boos rang out from all corners , I was really surprised, he is just not liked or trusted. Voters need/want some form of emotional connection with their leaders if they are going to carry them forward. Ignoring policy, Boris has that and Osborne does not.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-most-brits-do-want-to-leave-one-week-to-go-before-eu-referendum-vote-a3273141.html
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    For anyone who thinks The UK isn't multicultural, have you ever visited the UK? :))
  • Posts: 11,425
    Nice balanced piece in the Guardian by Simon Jenkins. As he says, the 'elites' that the Brexit camp want to give a bloody nose, will be fine regardless of the outcome.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/german-dominance-remain-eu-referendum-britain-votes-stay
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    -Stuck on their TUG-boat on the shores of EU; wanting to Brexit it resembles monty python sailing away towards The New York.. (in that office building equipped with cannons, that eventually makes an assault on NY and Wallstreet besserwissers..)..!
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think both sides are trying to do what they think is best for the UK.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    patb wrote: »
    The letter forgot to mention drunk footy fans!

    check out the link below, confirming that immigration is the most important issue and a small minority believe Osborne anyway. So DC has focused on the wrong issue and they cant win that issue anyway due to lack of trust. I was at the Olympics in 2012 and Osborne was their giving out medals, as he stepped up, boos rang out from all corners , I was really surprised, he is just not liked or trusted. Voters need/want some form of emotional connection with their leaders if they are going to carry them forward. Ignoring policy, Boris has that and Osborne does not.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-most-brits-do-want-to-leave-one-week-to-go-before-eu-referendum-vote-a3273141.html

    I was in the Olympic Stadium when Osborne was booed too. To be fair he seemed to take it with good grace.

    But you're never going to be PM George - get used to the idea. People just don't trust you and think of you as the epitome of the hated Etonian ruling elite.

    Boris is just as entitled as you but he manages to pull off the hardest trick in politics - the general public quite like him.

    Sorry mate but life's harsh. It's not like you're going to be skint when you get sacked in a few months is it?
    Getafix wrote: »
    Nice balanced piece in the Guardian by Simon Jenkins. As he says, the 'elites' that the Brexit camp want to give a bloody nose, will be fine regardless of the outcome.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/german-dominance-remain-eu-referendum-britain-votes-stay

    'At the start of this campaign I wanted to leave, renegotiate and stay. Now I am for stay, lobby and see what happens next. Whatever anyone says, there is always another time.'

    And that's the Guardian?!? Jesus. He's only just leaning towards stay.

    I agree with most of the article. Where I part ways with him is saying 'stay, lobby and see what happens'. That's just too passive I'm afraid given a) we are seen as a constantly moaning and have no clout in Europe and b) who's going to be doing this lobbying? Weaker than American lager Cameron?

    Thanks for this article though. It has helped me cement my decision.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    -Stuck on their TUG-boat on the shores of EU; wanting to Brexit it resembles monty python sailing away towards The New York.. (in that office building equipped with cannons, that eventually makes an assault on NY and Wallstreet besserwissers..)..!

    As the popular song goes: "I wasn't expecting that"...
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384

    Gyles Brandreth explains what will happen if we vote to stay or leave :))
  • Posts: 4,617
    Interesting interview with Theresa May on Newsnight last night, she has kept a low profile during the campaign and has made it clear that she was very close to being an outer. She would provide a safe pair pf hands as PM compared to Boris and we need someone to negotiate the exit. She is six to one at the moment as next PM, tremendous value IMHO, invest!
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 11,119
    British MP for the Labour Party, Jo Cox has been shot down and stabbed :-(. Al Brexit campaigns have been put on hold. According to one of the witnesses, one of the shooters supposedly screamed "Britain First!" after he shot her down.

    xl.jpg
    http://edition.cnn.com/2016/06/16/europe/british-mp-jo-cox-attacked/index.html

    And then people say......there is no hate :-(. My heart goes to Jo Cox and her family and friends. I hope she will survive this attack.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Terrible news.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    Indeed.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 18,281
    That's really shocking news. Some people definitely take things too far. It's not worth a drop of anyone's blood! Anyone who attacks a democratically elected MP in this manner is beneath contempt. I just hope the young woman involved pulls through and survives this terrible ordeal. I recall another MP being stabbed in his constituency office a few years ago too. Thankfully he survived.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 11,425
    patb wrote: »
    The letter forgot to mention drunk footy fans!

    check out the link below, confirming that immigration is the most important issue and a small minority believe Osborne anyway. So DC has focused on the wrong issue and they cant win that issue anyway due to lack of trust. I was at the Olympics in 2012 and Osborne was their giving out medals, as he stepped up, boos rang out from all corners , I was really surprised, he is just not liked or trusted. Voters need/want some form of emotional connection with their leaders if they are going to carry them forward. Ignoring policy, Boris has that and Osborne does not.

    http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-poll-most-brits-do-want-to-leave-one-week-to-go-before-eu-referendum-vote-a3273141.html

    I was in the Olympic Stadium when Osborne was booed too. To be fair he seemed to take it with good grace.

    But you're never going to be PM George - get used to the idea. People just don't trust you and think of you as the epitome of the hated Etonian ruling elite.

    Boris is just as entitled as you but he manages to pull off the hardest trick in politics - the general public quite like him.

    Sorry mate but life's harsh. It's not like you're going to be skint when you get sacked in a few months is it?
    Getafix wrote: »
    Nice balanced piece in the Guardian by Simon Jenkins. As he says, the 'elites' that the Brexit camp want to give a bloody nose, will be fine regardless of the outcome.

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/jun/16/german-dominance-remain-eu-referendum-britain-votes-stay

    'At the start of this campaign I wanted to leave, renegotiate and stay. Now I am for stay, lobby and see what happens next. Whatever anyone says, there is always another time.'

    And that's the Guardian?!? Jesus. He's only just leaning towards stay.

    I agree with most of the article. Where I part ways with him is saying 'stay, lobby and see what happens'. That's just too passive I'm afraid given a) we are seen as a constantly moaning and have no clout in Europe and b) who's going to be doing this lobbying? Weaker than American lager Cameron?

    Thanks for this article though. It has helped me cement my decision.

    Yes but Jenkins is a right wing commentator. A Tory and former editor of the Times. He writes an occasional column for the Guardian to add an alternative view.

    His final decision does seem a bit limp wristed.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    On the attack on the MP, is it linked to the referendum debate, or just another
    Angry A-hole out for revenge on society ?
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 11,119
    On the attack on the MP, is it linked to the referendum debate, or just another
    Angry A-hole out for revenge on society ?

    Well, if the person who did it ran way by screaming "Britain First!".....

    On top of that, Jo Cox worked for an aid agency, Oxfam, and for a pro-European campaign organization. She is heavily campaigning for the Remain vote.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 18,281
    On the attack on the MP, is it linked to the referendum debate, or just another
    Angry A-hole out for revenge on society ?

    Wikipedia:

    Cox supports the 'Remain' campaign during the United Kingdom European Union membership referendum, 2016.

    I'm guessing that it is related to the EU referendum.
  • Posts: 11,119
    "Hate" is the new poison of western society :-(. Please Mrs Cox......fight for your life.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,266
    On the attack on the MP, is it linked to the referendum debate, or just another
    Angry A-hole out for revenge on society ?

    Well, if the person who did it ran way by screaming "Britain First!".....

    On top of that, Jo Cox worked for an aid agency, Oxfam, and for a pro-European campaign organization. She is heavily campaigning for the Remain vote.
    Well those are basically fascists, those of Britain First. Calling themselves an 'army' as well. So yes, it's most likely related.


    f*cking f*ck f*cking f*cks, as the Australians would say.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    And now I'm waiting for some jingoist drivel preacher to spin this in his favour.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Campbell2 wrote: »
    And now I'm waiting for some jingoist drivel preacher to spin this in his favour.

    No, let's not do that.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    edited June 2016 Posts: 221
    -It was sheer ignorance that atacked Jo Cox.-and probably not for the reason of Brexit,
    but for the reason of a brawl in the street, and that happens often in London and uk streets..we can only resolve that with a united effort..and the more we are it eventually will come to a resolve..!
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    Rest assured, it's hardly as if we could avoid it.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    A suspect has been arrested, from the description. It sounds to have been a frenzied
    Attack. We can all only hope she recovers.
This discussion has been closed.