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The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,345
    These things are very difficult, if not impossible, to predict, sadly. MPs have to be brave to do the job they do for us who elect them.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Yes, there have been a couple of previous attacks on MPs. Thankfully they are rare.
  • MyNameIsMyBondRnMyNameIsMyBondRn WhereYouLeastExpectMeToBe
    Posts: 221
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    These things are very difficult, if not impossible, to predict, sadly. MPs have to be brave to do the job they do for us who elect them.

    ..Truly a Bizarre world we are living in, cannot agree more..!
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    First of all, I think it's pivotal that we stop treating 'all establishment policitians' as a bunch of crooked a-holes and criminals. Let's not forget that for most politicians the democracy triggered a mostly good and humane cause when they were young. People become active in politics, because they all have one goal: Make the world a better place. I think this is something we tend to forget in current-day society. Over the course of two decades, (western) society has become more filled with hate. Partially because those same politicians are being blamed for the destruction of the middle class. But that doesn't mean they deliberately destroy it.

    Let's treat politicians as human beings. Because we are all human beings. Famers, bankers, construction workers, housewives, students...and politicians. We all have our flaws. Bet let's starting making ourselves better first, before we start name-calling...or before we take the right in our own hands to commit a serious crime, a murder, or a terrorist attack.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I don't think this is the time for a debate on politicians.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,345
    No, it's much too soon for that. We don't know all of the facts yet, so let's not jump the gun as it were.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Most politicians get into this career with good intentions. However, many also fall prey to lobbyists and lose sight of why they came into it in the first place. That is the nature of the bubble that they inevitably occupy. It's more of an issue as time progresses too, with exceptions, and those who are exceptions are normally seen as rebels.

    At the end of the day, politics is a team sport, and loyalty amongst and to one's peers sometimes takes precedence over the electorate who put you there.

    I don't see a problem with people being mistrustful of politicians in general. They have, collectively, let the middle class down. Whether they chose to do that intentionally is irrelevant in my view. It's the result that counts.

    Violence is never the answer however. One nutter going off the deep end, whether it be in London or in Orlando, should not change the way people feel about things. It is only extremists who resort to physical mayhem and violence, and they should be dealt with most severely and without sympathy imho.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No, it's much too soon for that. We don't know all of the facts yet, so let's not jump the gun as it were.

    I am sorry. I didn't meant it as a debate really. I just think we all should find a bit more love and empathy for those around us. A bit more forgiveness. That's all.

    And indeed, let's stop discussing Brexit for a while, which I did. Love and peace. And my prayers. For Mrs Jo Cox.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,345
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    No, it's much too soon for that. We don't know all of the facts yet, so let's not jump the gun as it were.

    I am sorry. I didn't meant it as a debate really. I just think we all should find a bit more love and empathy for those around us. A bit more forgiveness. That's all.

    And indeed, let's stop discussing Brexit for a while, which I did. Love and peace. And my prayers. For Mrs Jo Cox.

    That's fine - no offence meant or caused.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 18,345
    I'm very sad to have to report that Mrs Jo Cox MP has died:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

    The murder of an MP is very unusual and terribly sad. My thoughts go out to her husband and two young children.

    :(
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I'mnu very sad to have to report that Mrs Jo Cox MP has died:

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36550304

    The murder of an MP is very unusual and terribly sad. My thoughts do out to her husband and two young children.

    :(

    No. No. This cannot be. :-(
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Sad to hear, I had a hope she just might have recovered.
    RIP Jo Cox.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    This is insane. Who was this evil nutcase?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 18,345
    Getafix wrote: »
    This is insane. Who was this evil nutcase?

    The suspect was named locally as Thomas Mair. Police are not looking for anyone else.

    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/16/labour-mp-jo-cox-shot-in-west-yorkshire
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    RIP Jo Cox. My thoughts to her family at this difficult time.

    This is a tragic story and totally unnecessary. I hope the severest penalty befalls this lunatic, to send an example to others who may choose to act out their frustrations physically.

    I also hope that, on the margin, it doesn't swing the vote either way, because that would be inappropriate as well.
  • GetafixGetafix
    Posts: 11,425
    Totally bizarre. The far right mimicking the tactics of Islamic extremists. I guess it's not that surprising.

    How horrific. Poor woman. You have to assume that on some level the people who do this kind of thing are just mentally unstable.

    Very very sad day for the UK.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Another unbalanced sado , an inadequate with a gun.. an extremist , sadly they
    are out there , I wouldn't be suprised if he turns out to be a member of some
    right wing extremists group. Like the BNP.
    This is indeed a very sad day for Britain, to lose such a beautiful intelligent
    Young woman.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    There are voices that want to get rid of political correctness. But one thing is for sure, no matter if you are left-wing, right-wing, Muslim, gay or Christian: We do not need the destruction of correctness. We need correctness. Desperately. We need to show more love, even in wordings. Instead of verbally shutting out people. It is wrong.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited June 2016 Posts: 11,425
    I think this is just going to turn out to be a tragic case of a mentally ill person flipping out. Whatever his declared motivations (if there actually were any) it seems increasingly likely he was simply mentally unstable.

    What a waste.

  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Getafix wrote: »
    I think this is just going to turn out to be a tragic case of a mentally ill person flipping out.


    Yes, but too many times now 'mentally ill' have been triggered with that little bit of extra to actually commit violent, deadly attacks like these.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 18,345
    I think it's very important not to politicise the tragic death today of Jo Cox MP. People on either side of the EU Referendum will no doubt attempt to do just this over the week that remain before polling day. Let me just say now how wrong this would be. For one thing it's highly disrespectful to Mrs Cox and her family. The future of the UK remaining or leaving the EU should not depend one way or the other on this terrible crime against beautiful and highly intelligent woman; that would only be to sully her memory and what she stood for. However, t's correct and proper for both camps in the EU debate to have suspended all of their activities today.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Totally Agree @Dragonpol I sincerely hope no side tries to use her terrible murder
    For any cynical political reason.
    The sad thing about hate crimes, especially political ones. Is that under our
    Democratic system, if one person falls another will take their place, so they
    Achieved nothing but deprive a nation of a talented politician.
  • JawsIsAliveJawsIsAlive
    edited June 2016 Posts: 233
    Truly dreadful news about Jo Cox, I'm really ashamed and saddened by what's going on in this country at the moment.

    Came across an excellent article reflecting on the whole thing, worth a read if you're as bemused as I am about today's hateful state of politics:

    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/a-day-of-infamy/
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    Looks like it's been pulled in favour of another comment.

    This one is perhaps even more to the point, especially when I read this very thread from page one:
    [RIP Jo Cox MP. A hugely talented young politician possessed of great clarity of thought and principle. Shot and stabbed by a piece of human filth, a piece of white human filth, while attending her surgery in West Yorkshire. God bless the woman and look after her family, please.

    This sort of savagery and vileness has been on the cards now for quite a while. We are drifting towards the febrile territory of a banana republic, or at best the USA. The claims on either side of the Brexit debate are hyperbolic, exaggerated, idiotic. And the mutual loathing spreads daily across social media, a shrieking absolutism divorced from reality on both sides of the argument.

    Call the vote off, as a mark of respect. We are in no fit state to vote anyway, to judge by the level of debate. Call it off. Poor, poor, woman. Poor kids. And poor Britain./quote]


    http://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/06/rod-liddle-rip-jo-cox/
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,345
    Yes, they seem to have pulled that article as there were a lot of complaints about its content in the Comments section below.
  • JawsIsAliveJawsIsAlive
    Posts: 233
    It still seems to be there when I click the link, and on the Spectator homepage.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    Yes, it's there again.
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    What a waste........pointless and meaningless......I feel sick to my stomach.......Why?

    What a fucked up world we live in. RIP.
  • GetafixGetafix
    edited June 2016 Posts: 11,425
    I hate to say this, but this might be the breaking point for the Leave campaign.

    If it turns out this loon was motivated (and this is not to blame the Leave campaign) by some warped support for Brexit, then I think it will give many people pause to ponder at the demons this referendum campaign has been in danger of unleashing - all that latent nasty nationalism, racism, and loathing of immigrants that lurks beneath the surface in so many countries.

    I think people are going to be asking what kind of country they want to live in and whether Brexit - although in no way responsible for what's happened - is not a step in the wrong direction.

    And before someone says that's just scaremongering, just look at the England 'fans' in France and their depressing anti European chants.

    It'll be us and Russia ranting in from the outside if we leave. Tearing ourselves up with hate.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Getafix wrote: »
    I hate to say this, but this might be the breaking point for the Leave campaign.

    If it turns out this loon was motivated (and this is not to blame the Leave campaign) by some warped support for Brexit, then I think it will give many people pause to ponder at the demons this referendum campaign has been in danger of unleashing - all that latent nasty nationalism, racism, and loathing of immigrants that lurks beneath the surface in so many countries.

    I think people are going to be asking what kind of country they want to live in and whether Brexit - although in no way responsible for what's happened - is not a step in the wrong direction.
    And that would be a real shame. Exactly what I hoped would not happen, as per my last post above. Emotions should not drive this decision. It should be a well thought out one on both sides of the argument, and a rational one.
This discussion has been closed.