The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

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Comments

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    At the end of the day people need to heed the words of the late Michael Winner and 'Calm down'.

    I've lived through numerous Black Mondays, Wendnesdays and Fridays. I've lived through at least 3 recessions. Never really noticed much difference to be honest. Life just carries on, there's no fighting in the streets. This is Britain not Uganda.

    The fact is, that you and @SpectreNumberTwo are not calming down with your posts; posts that don't exactly prevail in nuance:
    This was about the ordinary people, not big government/business, the stock market/sterling drop was only to be expected, for gods sake it's literally hours since the result, it's moving back up again already after the Bank of England intervened.

    As to Scotland, good luck to them, if they vote to leave the union, it'll be wonderful to watch them flounder & their economy fail in the knowledge that we in England/Wales won't have to bail them out.

    Where we've led the rest will follow.

    EU Experiment R.I.P.

    It's indeed literally hours after the referendum, and you're treating Scotland (and Northern-Ireland) as a bunch of lunatics. I can't believe you actually like them to fail. Your remark only shows how violently divided the United Kingdom is. I find it dangerous.

    Unlike your nuanced 'politicians barnet top 10' which I hear Newsnight are interested in buying the IP for to help with their analysis.

    You took the words right out of my mouth, Wizard.
  • Posts: 11,119
    At the end of the day people need to heed the words of the late Michael Winner and 'Calm down'.

    I've lived through numerous Black Mondays, Wendnesdays and Fridays. I've lived through at least 3 recessions. Never really noticed much difference to be honest. Life just carries on, there's no fighting in the streets. This is Britain not Uganda.

    The fact is, that you and @SpectreNumberTwo are not calming down with your posts; posts that don't exactly prevail in nuance:
    This was about the ordinary people, not big government/business, the stock market/sterling drop was only to be expected, for gods sake it's literally hours since the result, it's moving back up again already after the Bank of England intervened.

    As to Scotland, good luck to them, if they vote to leave the union, it'll be wonderful to watch them flounder & their economy fail in the knowledge that we in England/Wales won't have to bail them out.

    Where we've led the rest will follow.

    EU Experiment R.I.P.

    It's indeed literally hours after the referendum, and you're treating Scotland (and Northern-Ireland) as a bunch of lunatics. I can't believe you actually like them to fail. Your remark only shows how violently divided the United Kingdom is. I find it dangerous.

    Unlike your nuanced 'politicians barnet top 10' which I hear Newsnight are interested in buying the IP for to help with their analysis.

    Exactly, a nuanced comment is followed by another nuanced reaction. That's what makes a debate worthy and respectful. You took the words out of my mouth. I would however erase the brackets.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    It just shows how emotionally driven the whole thing was. In the next two years the EU and the UK have to find solutions and this is a very tough task since you have to negotiate agreements on almost everything. Finally the outcome will however not be that different from today as long as the UK wants to keep the access to the EU market. The main difference will be that the UK will feel more independant than today at the price of potential new conflicts in North Ireland and a new referendum in Scotland. Still the size of the Channel will not increase.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited June 2016 Posts: 13,978
    I wasn't expecting LEAVE to win. I was going to make a joke about Britain, with boot polish on it's face, sneaking across the EU courtyard, the exit in sight, only to be caught in the spotlights, and dragged back inside, to the cooler, to be made an example of.
  • dominicgreenedominicgreene The Eternal QOS Defender
    Posts: 1,756
    No offense, some people need to get a grip and stop being emotional over a decision. I'm not a UK resident and I can't really comment but some comments make it seem like the end of the world when it really isn't. Even if in Canada, a totally opposition to my views won, I would try to understand and try to rationalize a change. But people take so much pride in their views that it creates a colossal mess of feuds. Just goes to show how irrational humans are despite our vast feats of intelligence. Maybe I'm just naive though.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    And in the least surprising twist of the day:

    Motion of no confidence tabled by Labour MPs against Corbyn.

    Although a little confusing as I wasn't aware he ever had any.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Hopefully they'll eject him. Corbyn was very lackluster in his "support" for the EU so maybe we have him to thank for that at least.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited June 2016 Posts: 4,116
    Woke up to the vote. Have to say I'm surprised, but best to the UK.

    Now for Texit
  • Posts: 4,617
    Days are numbered for JC,

    very impressive speech from Sturgeon, would not surprise me if they do leave the UK and return to the EU, amazing times,

    PS I hope some of you took my tip re T May as a future PM? her odds have come down nicely
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    After so much division and enmity between the LEAVE and REMAIN camps it is time to get the UK back on track and for things to return to some sort of reality. Now is the time for the 'Pipes of Peace' to play loudly throughout the nation:

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    PS I hope some of you took my tip re T May as a future PM? her odds have come down nicely

    I would take May over Johnson.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 18,281
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    PS I hope some of you took my tip re T May as a future PM? her odds have come down nicely

    I would take May over Johnson.

    The problem with Theresa May is that she was in the REMAIN camp so she doesn't really deserve to benefit from LEAVE winning the referendum in my humble opinion. The same goes for the odious Osborne. Johnson, Gove and Co. did win the argument after all and thus should be the ones to benefit from it as they staked their political reputations on it. Johnson is popular with the ordinary people so I would like to see him as our next Prime Minister but I'd be happy with Gove too or one of the others in the LEAVE camp.
  • Posts: 315
    Surprised by the vote also. Met Boris J. a few times and always wanted to be PM. This seems to be the exact opposite of the U.S. discussion where the many blame the few. I wonder if the 2 year exit window will be much faster to send a punitive message to Sweden, the Netherlands, who may be close to considering exiting too.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    PS I hope some of you took my tip re T May as a future PM? her odds have come down nicely

    I would take May over Johnson.

    The problem with Theresa May is that she was in the REMAIN camp so she doesn't really deserve to benefit from LEAVE winning the referendum in my humble opinion. The same goes for the odious Osborne. Johnson, Gove and Co. did win the argument after all and thus should be the ones to benefit from it as they staked their political reputations on it. Johnson is popular with the ordinary people so I would like to see him as our next Prime Minister but I'd be happy with Gove too or one of the others in the LEAVE camp.

    Boris is slippery and duplicitous and Gove is more of a wet fish than Corbyn.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    This was a massive (and entirely unnecessary) political gamble by Cameron and it failed. My father predicted this a year ago and I assured him it could not happen...that Cameron and Co. would be able to make the case properly. They failed.

    This is a wake up call. The first major salvo to the political class and moneyed interests. Don't continue to overlook the basic welfare and well being of the common man and woman. Enough with 'trickle down' corporatism. Engage your population more and at least make an attempt to show that you give a sh#T.

    The aftermath for Britain will be tumultous for about 3-5 days on the financial markets, and perhaps 6 months politically, but the world will not end.

    The pound will reset to a more comfortable 'trade weighted' level during that time. There will be an interest rate impact but that will come a little later. For now they have to let the pound be the shock absorber.

    The #1 thing that they are all worried about (although they may hide it) is a banking contagion. That is what has to be 'contained' immediately and forcefully. Carney is competent, and he will be the man of the hour now.

    I can assure you that real estate values will hold, at least 6 months out, but they will have to relax foreign buying restrictions to attract capital.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 4,617
    Boris is divisive at commons level so he will struggle but grass roots members lap his act up. But he has zero experience with international politics and little experience at the top level. May was on the inner side but made it clear when declaring her position that she had serious doubts re the EU and it had been a hard decision. She then proceeded to play almost no role within the campaign so she is not tarnished. She has bags of experience plus (sexism alert) a woman may be ideal as a more softer , healing PM rather than the brash Boris. MPs have to select the last two and it will be May and Boris with the constituency members making a tough choice.
    A deal would not surprise me for May to get the job, deal with the exit negotiations whilst Boris is home secretary and then Boris takes over as leader for the next election (things will have calmed down by then) and Boris's connection with the out campaign less of an issue
    May was 6 to 1 a week ago, now around three to one
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 18,281
    FLeiter wrote: »
    Surprised by the vote also. Met Boris J. a few times and always wanted to be PM. This seems to be the exact opposite of the U.S. discussion where the many blame the few. I wonder if the 2 year exit window will be much faster to send a punitive message to Sweden, the Netherlands, who may be close to considering exiting too.

    If the Netherlands are considering leaving the EU that would be a very significant development considering they were one of the founding members of the Treaty of Rome that established the initial Common Market or European Economic Community. Such a LEAVE result would certainly be a real sharp slap in the face to the Pan-European ambitions of the Eurocrats who selfishly desire ever closer and closer union!
  • Posts: 9,847
    Well this is both good and bad I think I must confess post graduate studies I have not been paying close attention to the news as there is just far to much death destruction and hatred from seemingly all sides that I just couldn't take another news story from either fox or cnn. Obviously conspiratorial concerns aside The EU has been growing enormously the issue I have more then anything is why the world has so much hate and so much nationalist fever and distrust of foreigners....

    The world is a scary place at times

    Can the uk rejoin in a year or so after they get their nationalist feelings out of their way.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    bondjames wrote: »
    This was a massive (and entirely unnecessary) political gamble by Cameron and it failed. My father predicted this a year ago and I assured him it could not happen...that Cameron and Co. would be able to make the case properly. They failed.

    This is the crux of it. A failure to engage.The other issue is that the London centric, liberal intelligentsia have no interest in a dialogue with the disenfranchised. They continue to sneer and poke the dog with a big stick and it has finally bitten. In the end it was an issue too complex to put to the people, but the people have spoken. Hopefully those who blame the EU for domestic issues will realise that very little will change without devolution of power on a national level. What you have to ask yourself is, 'Does Boris Johnson give a fuck about Sunderland?'. Unlikely.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    The EU will now have to be reformed. That is a positive development to come out of this vote. The coming vacillations in the Euro currency will put more pressure to do something.

    Paradoxically, I think Germany/France/Italy may have to close ranks first in order to stabilize around the 'core' before doing anything else, in order to prevent any contagion.

    Draghi will be critical too. Central Bankers will run the show for the next few months.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    RC7 wrote: »
    Hopefully those who blame the EU for domestic issues will realise that very little will change without devolution of power on a national level. What you have to ask yourself is, 'Does Boris Johnson give a fuck about Sunderland?'. Unlikely.
    This is indeed the crux of it. True.
  • Posts: 4,617
    He would if Labour got its act together and places like Sunderland provided solid support for a labour gov, I agree, Boris can ignore these places because they play little role in providing support for Labour. Every strong democracy needs a strong opposition and Labour have been horribly weak over the last 3 months or so. But they seem to have little talent or ambition.
  • Posts: 4,325
    patb wrote: »
    He would if Labour got its act together and places like Sunderland provided solid support for a labour gov, I agree, Boris can ignore these places because they play little role in providing support for Labour. Every strong democracy needs a strong opposition and Labour have been horribly weak over the last 3 months or so. But they seem to have little talent or ambition.

    Labour don't know where they want to be. To the right - tainted by New Labour; to the left - deemed to be unelectable.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Yes, a waste of political space at the moment
  • Posts: 11,119
    When Michael Gove said, ‘The British people are sick of experts,’ he was right. But can anybody tell me the last time a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism has led to anything other than bigotry?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    When Michael Gove said, ‘The British people are sick of experts,’ he was right. But can anybody tell me the last time a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism has led to anything other than bigotry?

    Intellectuals will be the death of us; they nearly always get it wrong.

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    patb wrote: »
    He would if Labour got its act together and places like Sunderland provided solid support for a labour gov, I agree, Boris can ignore these places because they play little role in providing support for Labour. Every strong democracy needs a strong opposition and Labour have been horribly weak over the last 3 months or so. But they seem to have little talent or ambition.

    Labour are always weak with 'waste of space ideals'. Thanks god the tories are still in power despite the potential economic issues with Brexit.
  • Posts: 4,617
    Not sure I follow the logic, re the Big Short, following experts blindly is not the good thing to do and not sure how that stears you away from bigotry. The issue is not intellectualism - IMHO, its trust, some people are just so fed up with the political eleite and corp culture that if they said two and two is four, they would not be believed.
    A good point was made by a pundit last night. None of these experts spotted the run on the banks. The queues of people trying to take their cash out is still fresh in the mind, where were the experts then? They are a busted flush and I can see why.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    suavejmf wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    He would if Labour got its act together and places like Sunderland provided solid support for a labour gov, I agree, Boris can ignore these places because they play little role in providing support for Labour. Every strong democracy needs a strong opposition and Labour have been horribly weak over the last 3 months or so. But they seem to have little talent or ambition.

    Labour are always weak with 'waste of space ideals'. Thanks god the tories are still in power despite the potential economic issues with Brexit.

    Hear, hear!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    Not sure I follow the logic, re the Big Short, following experts blindly is not the good thing to do and not sure how that stears you away from bigotry. The issue is not intellectualism - IMHO, its trust, some people are just so fed up with the political eleite and corp culture that if they said two and two is four, they would not be believed.
    A good point was made by a pundit last night. None of these experts spotted the run on the banks. The queues of people trying to take their cash out is still fresh in the mind, where were the experts then? They are a busted flush and I can see why.
    Precisely. Credibility has been lost, and rightly so..
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