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The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

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  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    patb wrote: »
    Not sure I follow the logic, re the Big Short, following experts blindly is not the good thing to do and not sure how that stears you away from bigotry. The issue is not intellectualism - IMHO, its trust, some people are just so fed up with the political eleite and corp culture that if they said two and two is four, they would not be believed.
    A good point was made by a pundit last night. None of these experts spotted the run on the banks. The queues of people trying to take their cash out is still fresh in the mind, where were the experts then? They are a busted flush and I can see why.

    Are these the same experts who said GoldenEye couldn't exist, who said the helicopter posed no immediate threat, and wasn't worth following? Governments change, the lies stay the same.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    :))
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Not sure I follow the logic, re the Big Short, following experts blindly is not the good thing to do and not sure how that stears you away from bigotry. The issue is not intellectualism - IMHO, its trust, some people are just so fed up with the political eleite and corp culture that if they said two and two is four, they would not be believed.
    A good point was made by a pundit last night. None of these experts spotted the run on the banks. The queues of people trying to take their cash out is still fresh in the mind, where were the experts then? They are a busted flush and I can see why.

    Are these the same experts who said GoldenEye couldn't exist, who said the helicopter posed no immediate threat, and wasn't worth following? Governments change, the lies stay the same.

    Good one. That quote came immediately to my mind too.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Not sure I follow the logic, re the Big Short, following experts blindly is not the good thing to do and not sure how that stears you away from bigotry. The issue is not intellectualism - IMHO, its trust, some people are just so fed up with the political eleite and corp culture that if they said two and two is four, they would not be believed.
    A good point was made by a pundit last night. None of these experts spotted the run on the banks. The queues of people trying to take their cash out is still fresh in the mind, where were the experts then? They are a busted flush and I can see why.

    Are these the same experts who said GoldenEye couldn't exist, who said the helicopter posed no immediate threat, and wasn't worth following? Governments change, the lies stay the same.

    You don't like my 'IN' vote. You think I'm an accountant, a bean counter more interested in my numbers than your instincts.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    suavejmf wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Not sure I follow the logic, re the Big Short, following experts blindly is not the good thing to do and not sure how that stears you away from bigotry. The issue is not intellectualism - IMHO, its trust, some people are just so fed up with the political eleite and corp culture that if they said two and two is four, they would not be believed.
    A good point was made by a pundit last night. None of these experts spotted the run on the banks. The queues of people trying to take their cash out is still fresh in the mind, where were the experts then? They are a busted flush and I can see why.

    Are these the same experts who said GoldenEye couldn't exist, who said the helicopter posed no immediate threat, and wasn't worth following? Governments change, the lies stay the same.

    You don't like my 'IN' vote. You think I'm an accountant, a bean counter more interested in my numbers than your instincts.
    I have to say, that whole exchange is classic Bond.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    bondjames wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Not sure I follow the logic, re the Big Short, following experts blindly is not the good thing to do and not sure how that stears you away from bigotry. The issue is not intellectualism - IMHO, its trust, some people are just so fed up with the political eleite and corp culture that if they said two and two is four, they would not be believed.
    A good point was made by a pundit last night. None of these experts spotted the run on the banks. The queues of people trying to take their cash out is still fresh in the mind, where were the experts then? They are a busted flush and I can see why.

    Are these the same experts who said GoldenEye couldn't exist, who said the helicopter posed no immediate threat, and wasn't worth following? Governments change, the lies stay the same.

    You don't like my 'IN' vote. You think I'm an accountant, a bean counter more interested in my numbers than your instincts.
    I have to say, that whole exchange is classic Bond.

    It certainly is. A truly great piece of writing.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    plus, there now seems t be a massive cultural gap that has developed. I know its a cliche but I see the New Labour , Islinton, Fiat 500 drivers loving the EU. Easy travel to their gites? fresh cous cous from the local deli, cheap Polish plumber to fix your third ensuite etc,
    whilst in the Sunderland wastelands (no disrespect) what has/does the EU offer them? The Westminster elite are in such a bubble, they just cant see the EU through the eyes of voters who just cant see the positives. A stunning lack of empathy, foresight and imagination. No where was this more visible than in the online Guardian forums where trendy liberals, between their fresh croissant and frothy lattes were all too quick to sneer at the out campaign and label them as un cooth racists rather than make any attempt to see a different World.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    plus, there now seems t be a massive cultural gap that has developed. I know its a cliche but I see the New Labour , Islinton, Fiat 500 drivers loving the EU. Easy travel to their gites? fresh cous cous from the local deli, cheap Polish plumber to fix your third ensuite etc,
    whilst in the Sunderland wastelands (no disrespect) what has/does the EU offer them? The Westminster elite are in such a bubble, they just cant see the EU through the eyes of voters who just cant see the positives. A stunning lack of empathy, foresight and imagination. No where was this more visible than in the online Guardian forums where trendy liberals, between their fresh croissant and frothy lattes were all too quick to sneer at the out campaign and label them as un cooth racists rather than make any attempt to see a different World.

    This.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Agreed =D>
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    patb wrote: »
    plus, there now seems t be a massive cultural gap that has developed. I know its a cliche but I see the New Labour , Islinton, Fiat 500 drivers loving the EU. Easy travel to their gites? fresh cous cous from the local deli, cheap Polish plumber to fix your third ensuite etc,
    whilst in the Sunderland wastelands (no disrespect) what has/does the EU offer them? The Westminster elite are in such a bubble, they just cant see the EU through the eyes of voters who just cant see the positives. A stunning lack of empathy, foresight and imagination. No where was this more visible than in the online Guardian forums where trendy liberals, between their fresh croissant and frothy lattes were all too quick to sneer at the out campaign and label them as un cooth racists rather than make any attempt to see a different World.

    Truly a shower of bastards!

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Lattes and Kielbasas are overrated.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Interesting how all the trendy liberal In people who said Leavers are racists are now venomously pouring out their hatred on social media because their view lost.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Hell hath no fury, than a Liberal proved wrong ! ;)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Interesting how all the trendy liberal In people who said Leavers are racists are now venomously pouring out their hatred on social media because their view lost.

    Yes, it really speaks volumes about them, doesn't it?
  • CraterGunsCraterGuns
    Posts: 618
    $200 Billion wiped out of the UK stock market already.

    Wow.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Short term will be very difficult in the markets. They will stabilize though, not to worry. Just hold tight.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited June 2016 Posts: 18,344
    The Governor of the Bank of England has sought to calm the situation. Those in financial institutions should listen to him and not all of the doom and gloom. Things will recover again; this was only to be expected with such a fundamental change being ushered in.
  • fanbond123fanbond123
    edited June 2016 Posts: 1,661
    I think the EU vote is more of a smokescreen to forget about the austerity cuts. There''s no guarantee a Labour or Con government after 2020 election will reduce the cuts, make the House of Lords directly electable etc. It's likely things will remain much the same. Let's not forget Jeremy Corbyn was anti EU all his life but then swtiched to pro EU when he became Labour leader to appease the pro EU trade unions that fund his party. My point is politics is by nature 'voted dishonesty' and I think everyone in the UK is deluding themselves things will change for the better be it if we had remained in the EU or (as it was happened) left it. It won't change for better or much worse because human nature is not like that. It will stay the same.

    Hand on heart I believe the EU vote/debate is meaningless in the grand scheme of things. When you look at the bigger picture it's meaningless.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,344
    Well there were certainly a lot of vested interests with a lot to lose in the REMAIN camp.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    The EU has lost the second biggest contributer to their funds ?,
    Good luck Germany on continuing to bail out the EU. ;)
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    To quote another iconic character from fiction.

    "Opinions are like assholes, everbody has one"

    (Dirty Harry, The Dead Pool 1988) ;)
  • fanbond123fanbond123
    edited June 2016 Posts: 1,661
    Every aspect of key taxation is determined by the British government. Income tax, capital gain tax, corporation tax, inheritance tax, nation insurance, stamp duty etc - all determined by British MPs in British parliament. So when the likes of Gove and Johnson waffle on about getting our powers back it's a bogus argument. All tax is determined by UK government legilistation, not EU legislation, so if you voted to "leave" all you've voted for is for the Con/Labour to pass some new employment laws to protect workers rights and new laws to stop some economic migrants coming to the UK!

    That's all.

    Leaving the EU Is not going to stop the likes of Google paying little tax, it's not going to stop rich foreign currency dealers buying up a lot of UK property, it's not going to stop house prices in the south east going up, it's not going to stop food banks etc.

    My point is we've been brainwashed to believe

    A) We must stay in the EU to protect employee rights, to have access to the single market, to stop the threat of terrorism and crime

    or

    B) We must leave the EU to stop the flood of migrants taking our jobs and destroying our public services.

    But I think the reality is C.

    C) Little change. We don't even have an elected second chamber in Parliament. Nick Clegg tried to introduce a law to make the House of Lords directly electable. His bill:

    House of Lords Reform Bill 2012
    The House of Lords Reform Bill 2011 was a proposed Act of Parliament of the United Kingdom introduced to the House of Commons in June 2011 by Nick Clegg. Among other reforms, the bill would have made the United Kingdom's upper chamber mostly elected.[1] It was abandoned by the British Government in August 2012 and formally withdrawn on 3 September 2012[2] following opposition from within the Conservative Party.

    Had nothing to do with EU Interference. The remain and leave lot we elected voted the bill down. We've just brainwashed into thinking this EU vote is a big deal. It's not. It's an irrelevance. The Cons didn't even make Parliament more democratic!



  • MrcogginsMrcoggins Following in the footsteps of Quentin Quigley.
    Posts: 3,144
    Never let us forget our friends in the north
    Liverpool will never forget Boris .
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    One thing is for sure. Once you decide to leave home and its rules and restrictions, then you also have to step up and forge a new path. This is the key now.

    What does Britain want to be? Who does it want to be? What's its place in the world for the next 50 yrs or so?

    These questions weren't really asked, and such soul searching (without fear mongering) can now take place, and must take place. Quickly.

    There is a chance to forge a new, clear, and distinct path, but only if done properly. I hope the UK will seize this historic moment with confidence.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2016 Posts: 9,020
    As a Swiss I can absolutely understand the vote for leaving the EU. It was long overdue that a country will show the EU government, which has become a neoliberal economic dictatorship, that it can be better off without it. The British will celebrate this day in the future as the day when everything went for the better. In the short term it will hurt a bit, maybe, but in the long term England will stand as the example of how to do it.

    The EU has only one chance now. To show the people of Europe, that they can act in their interest again and not only in the interest of banks and the financial world in general. That they respect (again) that the EU is made of democracies and different cultures.

    We'll see what they'll do now. Personally I have no hope. They will go in the same wrong direction they have since circa 2009 under the rule of Merkel/Schäuble. The middle class will further be destroyed and the new financial aristocracy will see to it that the EU will act in their interest.
    Of course I sincerely hope I am wrong and the EU will return to the purpose it once had.

    Congratulations to the British voters who had the courage to choose a slightly uncertain future above the certainty of being further and further diminished within a construct called EU that has long stopped to function properly.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    It's coincidental that Independence Day: Resurgence opens in many markets today.

    I'm with you @BondJasonBond006. Well said.
  • patbpatb
    edited June 2016 Posts: 4,617
    So we are not "back of the queue then?" The threats have proved to be empty and, therefore, tends to justify a choice of out. (one can also ask, what was the motivation for the empty threat in the first place?)



    The US president, Barack Obama, has said that Britain will remain a key ally, as will the EU:

    The people of the United Kingdom have spoken, and we respect their decision. The special relationship between the United States and the United Kingdom is enduring, and the United Kingdom’s membership in Nato remains a vital cornerstone of US foreign, security, and economic policy. So too is our relationship with the European Union, which has done so much to promote stability, stimulate economic growth, and foster the spread of democratic values and ideals across the continent and beyond. The United Kingdom and the European Union will remain indispensable partners of the United States even as they begin negotiating their ongoing relationship to ensure continued stability, security, and prosperity for Europe, Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and the world.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Several other EU countries have a population looking for their own
    Referendum. I wonder if their views will be trampled over. :(
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @patb, that was totally as expected. The 'Western' alliance is the only certainty in life. More so than death & taxes.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited June 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    When Michael Gove said, ‘The British people are sick of experts,’ he was right. But can anybody tell me the last time a prevailing culture of anti-intellectualism has led to anything other than bigotry?

    You're as bad as the ruling elite who just got a slap for similar sweeping generalisations. Just call everyone who doesn't agree with you racist and a bigot.

    When will people realise that automatically labelling people borderline Nazis just fuels their distrust and disengagement with you?

    You're the biggest one on here who bangs on about engaging with each and living jappily together Gustav but you're simply not interested in hearing what the average man in the street has to say if it doesn't agree with your PC worshipping, multicultural, liberal Nirvana. Cameron made the same mistake and look where he is now. Swept into the gutters of history.

    The UK is a tolerant place tha has always welcomed immigrants (long before the EU was even heard of). We are one of the most advanced countries in the world in terms of gay rights and fighting racism (certainly more than half the EU where gay intolerance and monkey chants at football are still endemic).

    Just because we've rejected Brussels and the contemptible political elite doesn't mean that we're going to suddenly start marching gays and ethnic minorities off to camps.

This discussion has been closed.