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Comments
Hadn't thought of that - oh, the irony
I think they call that sort of thing "a Catch-22 situation." :D
it's the best thing we can do. Although given the powers that
want us to remain, I wonder if "staying" is a foregone conclusion ?
As it's these powers who have control over counting of the votes !
"If we leave the EU, zombies will rise from their graves and push pensioners into oncoming traffic."
I do. I work and live in Barcelona, Spain. A region that suffers even more financial hardships than my native country Netherlands. And I tell you, I just don't get my own country anymore. Such negative whiners. I do understand all the problems, but that's because lower income families lock themselves up in their small town, whereas the inevitability of internationalism doesn't seem to be understood by them.
I call myself a true European. And I'm longing for the day when we have a United States of Europe....and specially a European passport. In this ever globalizing world, small, fearful, closed, xenophobic countries are destined to lose.
Sweden perhaps. And as The Netherlands have elections next year, it could very well have an influence on that.
But to use such a nonchalant smiley for that question....I find a bit misplaced. Because IF the UK leaves the EU, then we could foresee a very fast disintegration of the EU. And with it a faster decrease of welfare and prosperity and a faster rise of ultra-nationalism, with ultra-left wing parties rising to power in Southern Europe and ultra-right wing parties gaining more power in Northern Europe.
It's a future I am not thrilled about. Ultra-nationalism becomes the 'new now', and other rising powers like Russia and China will then be able to dictate politics in Europe much better.
That actually doesn't sound too bad to me. But then again, I'm a libertarian, so I don't agree with being dictated to by some centralized union. If Europe acts as one, it should be voluntarily, not because we've wrapped ourselves in cling film to the point where we can't move without collective consent.
As for your children and grandchildren in a few decades... oh well. Who cares about them, right?
For many the EU is a comfort blanket, seems with out it the world
Will cease as we know it, back to the dark ages. The UK will do just
Fine =D>
i agree fully. I was Born in Poland and grew up in Germany. I have traveled almost all european countries by now and i definitly like to refer to myself as European more than German or Polish. And i also think that a European Nation is the only way to move forward instead of fighting about nonsencial stuff.
I do think the EU is very fragile and not an ideal scenario but i'd rather all european nations come together collectively and try to fix it instead of just threatening to get out like little kids. do we need another world war to make everyone realize why we need at stable EU? some people just don't learn
For other European nations, it won't be so easy though. Each situation must be looked at individually.
I hear more people saying that these days. You already see what's happening with Turkey. That insane Erdogan manages already to dictate politics across Europe. He's blackmailing Europe with this whole immigrant crisis. It really sickens me. Thing is, he seems to be on the winning side and the EU is accepting their wishes already, albeit in a very grumpy way.
With Russia it's already getting worse. Many Dutch and Australian victims from flight MH17 are still waiting for apoligies for what happened. The sheer denial of the Kremlin that they had anything to do with this airplane disaster, not even admitting that it was an accident caused by them, still makes my stomach turn.
Early this year The Netherlands had a referendum about the Ukraine trade agrement between the EU and Ukraine. Too many times the Kremlin Head-of-Press 'warned' the Netherlands that if they vote "YES", it would mean a lack of democracy. THAT'S the kind of dictations that make my stomach turn. At least in the USA they HAVE a democracy and then I can understand that the USA wants to dictate politics in Europe. But from a nation that itself violently opposes democracy and twists and turns the very meaning of the word, makes me angry.
Perhaps a future where Russia has more influence on Europe oesn't sound too bad to you. But I warn you...once Russia 'friendly' demands that certain LGBT laws and certain laws regarding freedom of press need to be 'changed' in order to get the trade and business ongoing with Russia, I will be protesting violently.
"Little Kids" and "Xenophobic" , once again the words of "Fear" ( So much for
Everyone in the EU loving each other , as has been suggested ) :D
If you like being ruled by unelected bureaucrats, fine I wish you well.
Simp!y allow those of us who believe in Democracy to be allowed to Express
Ourselves in the time honoured manner of voting. ;)
But you are talking nonsense. There are European Elections every four years.
Democracy has become a useless empty shell nowadays among those bitter ultra-right-wings and/or ultra-left-wings.
May I remind you this?? The UK overwhelmingly voted "YES" back in 1976 to enter the European Union. You know why? Because your own politicians made a mess of the welfare in prosperity in the UK. And as many EU nations were enjoying much better financial situations, you then decided "Oowh, let's join!".
You should have voted "NO" back then, instead of blaiming the EU for all the mess.
I prefer to be ruled by EU-bureacrats than Kremlin-bureaucrats. And it sickens me that we actually think this way.
Take part. Once again the EU Zealots have closed another conversation. It seems no
Dissenting voices will be tolerated in the EU ? :(
you could start here:
http://europa.eu/about-eu/eu-history/index_en.htm
Hard times require hard discussions. Sorry if I sound harsh, but I'm quite tired of the fact that ultra-right wing voices try to pity themselves when I come up with some valid arguments...and then they just walk away.
If it's the other way around I always STAY in the discussion. @Thunderpussy? I respect your choice off course. But please understand that I am very very worried for your choice. I think I have some right to make you understand what the consequences could be.
By the way, please do not call me an EU-zealot. I never called you a zealot.
Yourself are being used, I guess being British and not European my standards
Of politeness is, somewhat different. Instead of Zealot would Fanatic be
Acceptable ? Still I will away now, don't want to get embroiled in any more
Nastiness.
I agree with you that the EU lacks democratic core values. Right now Brussels and Strassbourg are not made out of politicians who are willing to discuss and debate with the ordinary person. That's the fundamental flaw right now of the EU. The people don't feel heard. It's a far-away entity that doesn't create any emotion. Guys like Jean-Claude Juncker need to stop warning so much, and instead listen more to all the worries. That's the one thing I firmly agree with.
But....people make it sound like the EU is the 'real dictatorship' here in Europe. And I do find such remarks pityful and out of context. Ever since the EU was founded we could still have our own democratic referendum. It's one of the reasons that Denmark, an EU-member, doesn't have the Euro right now. Or what about the actual 4-year-term EU elections? Those are also moments when we could have empowered ourselves.
But we didn't. We start blaiming others, the EU maninly, when we live in times of financial hardships. But the real fact is.....we could have initiated more referendums back in the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's when the EU was still on the rise. But we didn't we stayed silent. We indulged ourselves in the prosperity of the 1990's. But back then we should have taken a closer look at the EU. We didn't.
I respect everyone's choice. But I can firmly disagree with it. And in such cases, don't walk away. At least @BondJames keeps discussing with me. I may firmly disagree with him, but he makes me also realize that I am wrong sometimes. Right now we NEED to discuss firmly about the issues...and not walk away like a poor cat bitten by an insect.
When you can't win the argument, attack the person making it.
A lot of credibility was lost due to the Greek debacle, and now the migrant issue. The lawmakers look like a bunch of uncaring dictatorial imbeciles, and that's not instilling confidence.
I won't win the argument. Never. But I have every right to be at least firm with my opinion. I never called you a zealot. And I never said directly to you that you are a xenophobe. But I have every right to say that the situation in Europe has become more xenophobic. I mean, how would you describe this?
Right-wing people attacking asylum seekers:
Muslim immigrants attacking UK people:
Now, both sides are causing this madness. And I agree it has to stop. But this is indeed an example of xenophobia. And if you don't think it is, then please explain me what xenophobia is.