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The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I've given up trying to correct the remain campaigners here. I've given the facts
    a couple of times and they've ignored it, and carried on with their propaganda. ;)
    Which is odd coming from a group who apparently hate the Nazi's , as they are
    very willing to use their techniques.
    " If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth " we all know who said that.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    I've given up trying to correct the remain campaigners here. I've given the facts
    a couple of times and they've ignored it, and carried on with their propaganda. ;)
    Which is odd coming from a group who apparently hate the Nazi's , as they are
    very willing to use their techniques.
    " If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes the truth " we all know who said that.

    You forget one pivotal point here. Something that both 'Vote Leave' and 'Vote Remain' voters now agree on: The EU has to change.

    It angers me that many many people in here never read my previous comment in here. That I'm still painted off as a 'weirdo' who still can't cope with the facts. That's complete utter nonsense. I am self-critical and pragmatic enough to change my own views. And to actually uphold this view that I wrote earlier and that I am supporting for years now!:
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Very true is this the start of a European implosion I wonder ?....

    An implosion of the EU's own making. My views on Europe have changed dramatically over the last 10 years.


    I have to agree with that. I am also angry how European politicians behave these days. Men like Juncker, Schultz and Tusk need to talk with all the citizens of the EU. The worried citizens. Because our middle class is being destroyed in a fast rate. A middle class destruction, that reminds me of the 1920's and 1930's.

    So indeed, European politicians forcefully need to say: "Dear people, we are sorry that we didn't listen to you!" It needs to be the driving force of upcoming summits about the future of the EU.

    It makes me tired that I have to re-post one of my earlier quotes, because no one is reading it. This should not be the case.

    By the way, the Brexit is already resulting in some drastic summit talks about the future of the EU. And I think this is necessary. Better late than never. The original 6 founders of the ECSC (European Community of Steel and Coal) are already devising a plan titled the "Union Of Two Currents": One that every member can adhere too. A) Further integration, or B) Less integration.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I didn't forget anything, the EU is impossible to change. :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    So, am I now hearing here that Brexit will result in reforms to the EU? That's entirely as expected -it's now imperative. It wouldn't have happened without Brexit.

    Ergo, Brexit was necessary.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    So, am I now hearing here that Brexit will result in reforms to the EU? That's entirely as expected -it's now imperative. It wouldn't have happened without Brexit.

    Ergo, Brexit was necessary.

    I think, the consequences are still dire for both the EU and the UK. But agreed, this was the best wake-up call one can get.

    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/60678b42-3aa2-11e6-8716-a4a71e8140b0.html#axzz4CbPrGinT
    Mr Schulz and Sigmar Gabriel, Ms Merkel’s deputy chancellor — acting as German social democrats — have put forward a 10-point EU reform plan proposing more power for national parliaments and the EU parliament. They criticise the union for taking decisions at closed-door gatherings of the 28 leaders — an approach favoured by Ms Merkel.

    So that is good news. But on the whole....it is a sign that only the 6 founding fathers are meeting and not all 27. On top of that, the disagreement between the UK and the EU stays, as the Tories do not want to speed up the article 50 cecession process from the Lisbon Treaty, whereas the EU wants to start full cecession within 2 weeks. This could be a sign that the UK might probably not get their desired 'Norway-esque' status within Europe.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    edited June 2016 Posts: 13,384
    I agree the delay is to help the conservative party, not the country.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    I agree the delay is to help the conservative party, not the country.

    I don't get it either. Why delaying? Both Boris Johnson and Cameron basically wanted to sign Article 50 in a hurry before the referendum. And now they do this? It will only weaken the UK's position to negotiate strong exit treaties with the EU.

    This is what I expected to happen......Make no mistake. The UK is far far away from becoming another Norway. The situation is too dire for that.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,589
    Panic on the streets of London
    Panic on the streets of Birmingham
    I wonder to myself...
    Could life ever be sane again?
    The Leeds side-streets that you slip down
    I wonder to myself...
    Hopes may rise on the grasmere
    But honey pie, you're not safe here
    So you run down
    to the safety of the town
    But there's panic on the streets of Carlisle
    Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
    I wonder to myself...
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    TripAces wrote: »
    Panic on the streets of London
    Panic on the streets of Birmingham
    I wonder to myself...
    Could life ever be sane again?
    The Leeds side-streets that you slip down
    I wonder to myself...
    Hopes may rise on the grasmere
    But honey pie, you're not safe here
    So you run down
    to the safety of the town
    But there's panic on the streets of Carlisle
    Dublin, Dundee, Humberside
    I wonder to myself...

    Nice poem @TripAces :-)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think TripAces is a Smiths fan :D
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    =)) you are a very angry individual, I hope you're taking your medication.
    But it must be hard typing with a pencil held in the mouth, as the jacket
    your wearing is strapped up the back ! :))


    C'mon, you can do better than that, Pussy. Show us your victorious Englander act some more.
    >:)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    "It's not an act " , want to name the film ? ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I agree that a delay in invoking Article 50 is not advisable for anybody.

    Cameron called this plebiscite. The people have spoken. He may have expected & fought for a different result, but now he should move forward and implement the will of the people rather than dithering.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Perhaps Dave is deciding which Bank board to sit on as his new job. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    Perhaps Dave is deciding which Bank board to sit on as his new job. ;)
    Indeed. If anyone would hire him after this. I suspect the delay is to allow positions to be unwound and to protect the banking system (perhaps give the impression to the markets that the decision can be reversed somehow). There will be a lot of backroom shuffling going on during the next few months.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'm still amazed George Osborne hasn't been out, trying to help
    Pacify the markets, but I guess he too is making plans for a nice
    Job in the city. ;)
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    Perhaps Dave is deciding which Bank board to sit on as his new job. ;)
    Indeed. If anyone would hire him after this. I suspect the delay is to allow positions to be unwound and to protect the banking system (perhaps give the impression to the markets that the decision can be reversed somehow). There will be a lot of backroom shuffling going on during the next few months.

    I think this waiting until October could have the exact opposite effect. It creates uncertainty and it lets the uncertainty linger on for at least four months. The market doesn't like that.
  • TroyTroy
    Posts: 343
    Why do people think the founding states only are meeting in Berlin? Is that because they are the real power in the EU? or perhaps they are cooking up something?
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    Posts: 389
    You know what, if the EU really wishes to speed up the process all they have to do is agree to tariff free trade, the deal could be done in a matter of weeks, but they won't do that because of this ideal that they have to punish the UK for exercising democracy in case any other nation has the gall to contemplate leaving such a wonderful & philanthropic organisation (For those who are a bit too literal, that's sarcasm).

    So instead of just accepting the result & doing the deal it will get dragged out which will hurt all sides. :(
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,589
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    I think TripAces is a Smiths fan :D


    =D>
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    edited June 2016 Posts: 389
    Thunderpussy wrote: »
    "It's not an act " , want to name the film ? ;)

    The Return of the Pink Panther? /:)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Troy wrote: »
    Why do people think the founding states only are meeting in Berlin? Is that because they are the real power in the EU? or perhaps they are cooking up something?
    I think you've possibly answered your own question. The cat is out of the bag and hiding in plain sight now.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Like the UK Switzerland is an island. The UK surrounded by the sea, we are surrounded by EU members.

    But look how Switzerland has always prospered and we still have (I think) the lowest level of unemployment in Europe. And we are by no means insular in thinking. Our population is made of 25%!! of people with no Swiss passport.

    Just look at our Swiss National Football Team in the EURO in France. Most players are of emigrant parents. Look at the names of our team. And we are proud to have so many of them that are playing for us.
    Xherdan Shaqiri, Granit Xhaka, Gökhan Inler, Breel Embolo, Valon Behrami, Haris Seferovic, Ricardo Rodriguez, Johan Djourou, Blerim Dzemaili, Eren Derdiyok.
    And those are our stars together with Yann Sommer, Fabian Schär and Stephan Lichtsteiner who are as Swiss as they come.

    The future is bright as long as people try to stand for their believes. The Brits did it. We do it all the time.

    And the Brits are like the Swiss, openminded and multicultural. Always have, always will.

    Switzerland is celebrating the Brexit, a vast majority of the people are just glad the British had the guts to do it.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    It crossed my mind that remainers who are upset are going though the classic symptoms of grief. Some are in the first stage and some have moved on to the second:

    The five stages of grief:

    Denial: “This can’t be happening to me.”

    Anger: “Why is this happening? Who is to blame?”

    Bargaining: “Make this not happen, and in return I will ____.”

    Depression: “I’m too sad to do anything.”

    Acceptance: “I’m at peace with what happened.”
  • SpectreNumberTwoSpectreNumberTwo
    edited June 2016 Posts: 389
    patb wrote: »
    It crossed my mind that remainers who are upset are going though the classic symptoms of grief. Some are in the first stage and some have moved on to the second:

    The five stages of grief:

    Denial: “This can’t be happening to me.”

    Anger: “Why is this happening? Who is to blame?”

    Bargaining: “Make this not happen, and in return I will ____.”

    Depression: “I’m too sad to do anything.”

    Acceptance: “I’m at peace with what happened.”

    That's the smartest thing you've said.
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    Posts: 299

    Meanwhile in the real world the Bratzis are having their first unkind encounters with the concept of reality:
    The leave campaign has appeared to row back on key pledges made during the EU referendum campaign less than 24 hours after the UK voted for Brexit, after it emerged immigration levels could remain unchanged.

    Leading Brexit figures had disagreed throughout the campaign on issues including immigration, free movement and the

    But within hours of the result on Friday morning, the Ukip leader, Nigel Farage, had distanced himself from the claim that £350m of EU contributions could instead be spent on the NHS, while the Tory MEP Daniel Hannan said free movement could result in similar levels of immigration after Brexit.

    Hannan said: “Frankly, if people watching think that they have voted and there is now going to be zero immigration from the EU, they are going to be disappointed.”

    The issue is the latest area where leave campaigners appeared to be walking away from pledges made during the campaign, following Farage’s admission on Friday morning that the pledge plastered all over the official Vote Leave battle bus to spend money recouped from the EU on the NHS was “a mistake”.


    http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/25/leave-campaign-rows-back-key-pledges-immigration-nhs-spending

    Just in case there is anybody actually able to read here. Am not so sure about it, ye'know.



    As for Scotland:
    Nicola Sturgeon is to lobby EU member states directly for support in ensuring that Scotland can remain part of the bloc, after Scots voted emphatically against Brexit on Thursday.

    The first minister has disclosed that she is to invite all EU diplomats based in Scotland to a summit at her official residence in Edinburgh within the next two weeks in a bid to sidestep the UK government.

    After Scotland voted 62% to 38% to stay in the EU, she said she planned to begin immediate discussions with the European commission to “protect Scotland’s relationship with the EU and our place in the single market”.

    The first minister made the announcement after an emergency cabinet meeting on Saturday morning. She also said she would establish an advisory body of financial, legal and diplomatic experts who can advise her government on its options for retaining EU membership after Thursday’s UK-wide vote, by 52% to 48%, to leave the EU.

    “Cabinet agreed we would begin immediate discussions with the EU institutions and other member states to explore all the possible options to protect Scotland’s place in the EU,” she said.

    In a further significant development, Scottish Labour’s executive committee opened up the prospect of eventually endorsing independence after agreeing to “consider all options” on Scotland’s future in the UK.


    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/jun/25/sturgeon-seeks-urgent-brussels-talks-to-protect-scotlands-eu-membership


    And just to make the odd troll happy :D

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    (:| blah, blah, blah ......... (:|
  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    edited June 2016 Posts: 299
    For somebody who claims to be 'educated' you show a disturbing lack of familiarity with your lines in this act: for the record, the toddler unwilling to listen is supposed to say lalala, I can't hear you.

    Always glad to help you out, Pussy. ;) :))
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    edited June 2016 Posts: 13,384
    I think that's the closest you ever get to pussy =)) although I'm always willing
    to learn more about your , "Yob culture" :))
    (Seriously though, I do enjoy your posts ) ;) I think they're a lot of fun.
  • JawsIsAliveJawsIsAlive
    Posts: 233
    I've already begun the application process for an Irish passport, thanks to my maternal grandmother. Unfortunately most of my generation isn't so lucky; they've had their rights as European citizens stolen from them forever. Cheers everyone.
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