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Comments
It's time to be British, stop f**king whining, grow a pair, knuckle down & sort it. :)>-
the UK ? Sort of the best of both worlds. :)
NO, if he had an EU/Irish passport, he'd need a work permit/visa to remain in the UK. >:)
You sure know how to rock this thread! :))
Heads we remain, tails we leave ? Or get Boris and Dave to grease up for
Some mud wrestling. :D
What's clear now is that there is absolutely no coherent vision for what leaving actually means. Boris seems to just want EU membership lite, hopin we can just keep the good bits and ditch the rest - like being a member of a club but not having to pay the membership fees.
Meanwhile god knows what Farage envisions.
And of course now they're all backtracking on their false promises on immigration and lies about extra money for the NHS.
Surely not long before the electorate starts turning on these Brexit jokers as the scales fall away and the British people see them for what they really are - a bunch of chancers and dodgy wheeler dealers.
"Best of three?" The kind of thing my son would say.
"If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!"
Not even America ! :D
This vote and the Leave campaign just seems a classic example to me of being against everything but for nothing in particular. Blind rage against the status quo but with no clue of what the alternative actually is.
The footage is out there before anyone calls me condescending, yeah the British public were so well informed they are saying if they could they'd go back and vote remain.
Plus that £350 million lie emblazoned on the battle bus for the leave camp was utter bollocks.
There is no plan because Boris didn't think it would happen and now he's stalling because Dave has said and I quote " why should I do all the hard shit".
Just look at the footage of Boris trying to convince the remain camp, he looks shit scared, he realises what he wanted, to be the next PM has back fired big time and Dave wanting to sort the Tory Party with his take has also back fired.
Some of you can look triumphant but the rest of the world (bar some people on this forum) think we are off our nut, only the arrogance and outright xenophobia of the British would be able to say fuck everyone else we'll do just fine.
Well we'll see, lets just wait till it hits some of you who think it's great then we'll see if you think it's a great idea and the way to go.
The Remain campaign might have used scare tactics but the leave campaign outright lied and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
The Brexit campaign is going to becoming back down to earth with a bump because the public are realising (too late mind) that they've been sold down the river.
I think so many people have been left behind by successive governments, of all parties.
That yes, there are so full of anger at always being Sh*t on, that they took this chance
To basically F*ck the establishment. That's all they were looking to do, as they have
Nothing to lose.
Or is it that the youth of London are qualified and its older , working class voters who cant be trusted?
I think there is a genuine debate to be had about how qualified the general public are to to make any decisions. But, if not, who does make the decisions? This debate strikes at the heart of the very meaning of democracy.
PS The Brexit campaign cant come back down to Earth. The campaign is over. It ended at 10pm on the 23rd June and they won. It is now up to the government to enact the will of the people. NOT the vote leave team.
Masters and overlords, seem incapable of acceptance of their orders. Showing
How out of touch many MPs are from their constituents.
- Younger voters were more inclined to vote "in".
- Higher educated people were more inclined to vote "in".
I'm afraid the infamous British tabloids have once again been doing what they excel at: to report anything but objectively on the matter.
Farage is merely another Donald Trump, an obnoxious blowhard who spoonfeeds his views to others in quite an overbearing way, pretending that salvation ultimately lies in a drastic reversal of the political status-quo. He puppeteers the average beer belly's brain with his superficial arguments and seduces the crowds by acting all smug and arrogant in front of his political adversaries. No wonder that it's mostly the less educated who were persuaded by this loudmouth to vote "leave". One of the major fallacies of so-called democracy is that all citizens get to vote... even if everything except sports and pub based leisure lies beyond their intellectual horizon.
Yes I voted Brexit but I did so with a heavy heart and I don't share the jubilance of Farage et al.
It seems only now the fuckwitted EU leaders have woken up and are thinking about reform and perhaps those of you who are still in it and benefit in years to come will occasionally raise a glass to the UK for martyring ourselves to drive positive change for the rest of you.
Maybe the path we have chosen is a hard one but when the other choice was maintain the status quo and give Cameron and the EU a mandate of 'keep going as you are - everything is fine' it was hardly a difficult decision.
And while everyone is quick to blame the uneducated masses who are don't understand all the nuances (GG's favourite word in this debate when he's trying to dig himself out of whatever particular cul de sac his argument has led him into), are basically all racist and who should just pay attention to those of us who live in London and know all about these things we should all have a look at ourselves. And yes that goes for you too Remainers.
Because it is our apathy (all of us) and disinterest at the fact that we allow ourselves to be governed by contemptible, self serving parasites from Westminster to Brussels and can barely raise an eyebrow when Newsnight is on but cant wait to click 'play' the moment someone sends us a video of a fat kid falling off a skateboard on YouTube that has led us to this.
You get what you deserve in life. We get governed by vaccuous suits who have not the slightest idea or concern about the issues that trouble the average Joe and whose sole interest is to enrich themselves because we deserve it.
Politics in this country is almost extinct now. There is now only one party, who can squabble between themselves over who is leader but without any real pressure to deliver anything tangible because there is no opposition so they will get re-elected by default.
The Lib Dems seem to have perfected Christian Bale's the Vanishing Man trick from The Prestige and Labour are less electable than the BNP. The sole opposition is a woman whose party's sole aim is to split from the rest of the country.
I am sad and ashamed at where we are as both a country and a continent but I'm proud that our country is the one that has said enough is enough.
And I'm far from depressed about the future so long as we realise that this is an opportunity to take our country back but not from Brussels but from politics which is supposed to serve the people but currently serves only those with their snouts in the trough.
I urge The Netherlands, Sweden, in fact all of you, to follow our lead and head for the .....exit (insert the first two letters of your country on the dotted line). Let's dismantle this arrogant Tower of Babel and rebuild it to do what it was designed to do - serve the citizens who live here.
Stupid decision :( showing how incompetent the remain leadership was !
In many was the Leave camp didn't win, rather the remain camp gave it away.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2066141/MICHAEL-GOVES-SPEECH-How-reform-patronising-schools-stifle-ambition.html
A quote:
I think the most striking thing is how different the public of 130 years ago were.
Or more specifically, how different were the expectations that the political class had of that public.
It was assumed that an audience of agricultural labourers and mineworkers would either be familiar with or, at the very least be curious about, Pericles and Dryden, the intricacies of the Andrassy Note and the deficiencies of the San Stefano Treaty, the merits of Protection and the arguments from first principles for Free Trade.
The public were paid the compliment of assuming they were intellectually curious. They weren’t patronised by being treated as rude mechanicals.
It would have been unthinkable for Gladstone to have used the House of Commons to answer a question on the fate of a character in a soap opera, as Tony Blair did when he expressed his support for the innocence of Deirdre Rachid.
It was a central argument of renaissance historians and political theorists that any republic or commonwealth - whether the Rome of the time before the Caesars or the Holland of the seventeenth century - needed citizens who were schooled in virtue if it was to survive and prosper.
Open, and participative political systems could not long endure if men were left simply to follow their appetites or allowed, unprotected, to fall prey to demagoguery.
If these polities were to succeed then citizens needed not just a technical education in a skill to earn their living or basic literacy and numeracy to learn the laws and pay their taxes. They needed to have learned lessons from history, studied the examples of great men from the past, developed robust reasoning skills, had a grounding in ethics, learned to appreciate the importance of art and music, architectural and natural beauty.
Without that knowledge, that understanding that the survival and enhancement of a civilization and its culture mattered more than manoeuvring for personal advantage, a society it as thought would inevitably decline, dragging all its citizens with it.
Yes, a very fair point. Historians will have to work out how the PM with the support of most of the government and the infrastructure that went with it, almost the complete Lab party plus almost all of the economic institutions plus most of British business lost against what was a rag tag consisting of an ex Mayer of London, an ex Education Secretary, the Leader of UKIP (plus a "bitsa" team of helpers, mostly not recognised by the public).
DC had every advantage possible within the campaign but still lost by 4 percentage points. He must still be having nightmares. How could he have lost?
Well said Sir, I too don't feel elated, you are spot on with politics, when we need greatness we are given mediocrity at best, alot of the problems are caused by the media placing these people on pedestals just to knock them off if they make the slightest mistake, any wonder that most people wouldn't enter the fray for all the tea in China.
Very interesting view, I think this says a lot about todays general puplic, there is a malaise when it comes to politics, if you start to discuss the issues at a diner party you can see certains individuals start to glaze over & try to change the subject.
We live in a representative parliamentary democracy. We elect people to make laws and take decisions on our behalf. Or we used to until Harold Wilson introduced referenda in 1975.
There is a smattering of truth to this, but also a lot of lazy cynicism about politicians. Most MPs are not the immoral self serving types you seem to imply. And I think a lot of them genuinely care about their constituents. British politics is remarkably Un
corrupt but you are right that there is a disconnect, and a high level of disengagement. There is also a lack of inspiring politicians and leaders.
I think as @patb suggests one of the problems is that politics is actually really quite unappealing. Who would do it? They work long anti social hours. Many have to travel back and forth across the country and spend their weekends doing constituency work for which they get little or not thanks or more likely abuse.
As you imply @Wizard, may be the problem is not so much our politicians
as ourselves.
Btw, glad you have a recession proof public sector job with Transport for London. Pity the poor buggers who work in the private sector who are now going to get screwed as the British economy misses out on a decade of investment and stagnates at best or goes down the pan at worst.
What is so odd is that compared to many other places in the world the UK had been doing really quite well up unti
l Friday. It's like we went into some bizarre irrational apoplexy because things were going too smoothly.
I think there's a element of boredom behind the Brexit vote. After decades of peace, stability and generally rising living standards people just wanted some crazy sh*t to happen like in the good old days when people died at 45 if they were lucky and we all happily sent out kids off to get machine gunned on the continent.
I mean, besides the genuinely disenfranchised working poor, who have genuine grievances, what were all these baby boomers sitting on piles of property gold actually so upset about?
Irony of ironies that it was the
generation that fought WW2 that took is into the EU and their feckless ingrate offspring that have taken us out.
Sounds like the Republicans here in the U.S.
Actually yes, I'll hold dual Irish - British citizenship and enjoy the benefits of both passports.
This is hilarious! Nationalists of the world, unite! Become...Nationalists International!
=))
Apart from that some comments I can actually agree with. An early post of mine in this thread shared some points, only then of course one still had to campaign hard.
I doubt we're all jubilent. Some might feel like a LEAVE vote was the only option. And better control of immigration wasn't the only reason to vote, there was that extortionate £350M a week fee as well (the money we have back is irrelevant).
That £350 million pledge was debunked, check your facts, it was utter bollocks.