The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

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  • The problem with the modern world is it wants instant gratification in all things, it's been 2 days since the vote, unfortunately with Brexit it could take 10 years to change the country as their are so many negative nancys who can't do it, it's too hard, oh how could the people do this.

    It's time to be British, stop f**king whining, grow a pair, knuckle down & sort it. :)>-
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Very interesting, would that leave you technically an EU citizen living in
    the UK ? Sort of the best of both worlds. :)
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 389
    Very interesting, would that leave you technically an EU citizen living in
    the UK ? Sort of the best of both worlds. :)

    NO, if he had an EU/Irish passport, he'd need a work permit/visa to remain in the UK. >:)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :)) Damn, I thought thre was the way to please everyone.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited June 2016 Posts: 9,020
    I never knew you had it in you Pussy of Thunder!

    You sure know how to rock this thread! :))
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Perhaps we could persuade her Majesty to toss a coin, as a final decision?
    Heads we remain, tails we leave ? Or get Boris and Dave to grease up for
    Some mud wrestling. :D
  • Posts: 11,425
    Out of interest what model do the Leavers on here actually picture once we leave?

    What's clear now is that there is absolutely no coherent vision for what leaving actually means. Boris seems to just want EU membership lite, hopin we can just keep the good bits and ditch the rest - like being a member of a club but not having to pay the membership fees.

    Meanwhile god knows what Farage envisions.

    And of course now they're all backtracking on their false promises on immigration and lies about extra money for the NHS.

    Surely not long before the electorate starts turning on these Brexit jokers as the scales fall away and the British people see them for what they really are - a bunch of chancers and dodgy wheeler dealers.
  • Posts: 4,617
    It reminds me of someone who looses a coin toss:

    "Best of three?" The kind of thing my son would say.

    "If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
    And treat those two impostors just the same

    Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
    And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!"
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think we should join up with N.Korea as Nobody Messes with them
    Not even America ! :D
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 11,425
    Putting aside the hilarious gags for a moment, do you in all honesty have any idea what Leave were offering as a future vision for the country?

    This vote and the Leave campaign just seems a classic example to me of being against everything but for nothing in particular. Blind rage against the status quo but with no clue of what the alternative actually is.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    People are already saying they are shocked we are leaving just did it for a protest vote didn't actually think it would happen.

    The footage is out there before anyone calls me condescending, yeah the British public were so well informed they are saying if they could they'd go back and vote remain.

    Plus that £350 million lie emblazoned on the battle bus for the leave camp was utter bollocks.

    There is no plan because Boris didn't think it would happen and now he's stalling because Dave has said and I quote " why should I do all the hard shit".

    Just look at the footage of Boris trying to convince the remain camp, he looks shit scared, he realises what he wanted, to be the next PM has back fired big time and Dave wanting to sort the Tory Party with his take has also back fired.

    Some of you can look triumphant but the rest of the world (bar some people on this forum) think we are off our nut, only the arrogance and outright xenophobia of the British would be able to say fuck everyone else we'll do just fine.

    Well we'll see, lets just wait till it hits some of you who think it's great then we'll see if you think it's a great idea and the way to go.

    The Remain campaign might have used scare tactics but the leave campaign outright lied and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

    The Brexit campaign is going to becoming back down to earth with a bump because the public are realising (too late mind) that they've been sold down the river.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Status Quo were a great Band! ^:)^

    I think so many people have been left behind by successive governments, of all parties.
    That yes, there are so full of anger at always being Sh*t on, that they took this chance
    To basically F*ck the establishment. That's all they were looking to do, as they have
    Nothing to lose.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 4,617
    So is the claim that the British public are now so thick and gullible that they can't be trusted with future referendum? And, if so, how can they be trusted to elect future Governments (or local governments). Perhaps X Factor and Eurovision should be the limits of their authority?
    Or is it that the youth of London are qualified and its older , working class voters who cant be trusted?
    I think there is a genuine debate to be had about how qualified the general public are to to make any decisions. But, if not, who does make the decisions? This debate strikes at the heart of the very meaning of democracy.

    PS The Brexit campaign cant come back down to Earth. The campaign is over. It ended at 10pm on the 23rd June and they won. It is now up to the government to enact the will of the people. NOT the vote leave team.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think the public are perfectly capable of making decisions sadly their political
    Masters and overlords, seem incapable of acceptance of their orders. Showing
    How out of touch many MPs are from their constituents.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,183
    Looking at some of the statistics, interesting conclusions can be drawn.
    - Younger voters were more inclined to vote "in".
    - Higher educated people were more inclined to vote "in".

    I'm afraid the infamous British tabloids have once again been doing what they excel at: to report anything but objectively on the matter.

    Farage is merely another Donald Trump, an obnoxious blowhard who spoonfeeds his views to others in quite an overbearing way, pretending that salvation ultimately lies in a drastic reversal of the political status-quo. He puppeteers the average beer belly's brain with his superficial arguments and seduces the crowds by acting all smug and arrogant in front of his political adversaries. No wonder that it's mostly the less educated who were persuaded by this loudmouth to vote "leave". One of the major fallacies of so-called democracy is that all citizens get to vote... even if everything except sports and pub based leisure lies beyond their intellectual horizon.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    The vitriol in this thread is getting quite depressing even for me who rates Threads as one of their favourite films.

    Yes I voted Brexit but I did so with a heavy heart and I don't share the jubilance of Farage et al.

    It seems only now the fuckwitted EU leaders have woken up and are thinking about reform and perhaps those of you who are still in it and benefit in years to come will occasionally raise a glass to the UK for martyring ourselves to drive positive change for the rest of you.

    Maybe the path we have chosen is a hard one but when the other choice was maintain the status quo and give Cameron and the EU a mandate of 'keep going as you are - everything is fine' it was hardly a difficult decision.

    And while everyone is quick to blame the uneducated masses who are don't understand all the nuances (GG's favourite word in this debate when he's trying to dig himself out of whatever particular cul de sac his argument has led him into), are basically all racist and who should just pay attention to those of us who live in London and know all about these things we should all have a look at ourselves. And yes that goes for you too Remainers.

    Because it is our apathy (all of us) and disinterest at the fact that we allow ourselves to be governed by contemptible, self serving parasites from Westminster to Brussels and can barely raise an eyebrow when Newsnight is on but cant wait to click 'play' the moment someone sends us a video of a fat kid falling off a skateboard on YouTube that has led us to this.

    You get what you deserve in life. We get governed by vaccuous suits who have not the slightest idea or concern about the issues that trouble the average Joe and whose sole interest is to enrich themselves because we deserve it.

    Politics in this country is almost extinct now. There is now only one party, who can squabble between themselves over who is leader but without any real pressure to deliver anything tangible because there is no opposition so they will get re-elected by default.

    The Lib Dems seem to have perfected Christian Bale's the Vanishing Man trick from The Prestige and Labour are less electable than the BNP. The sole opposition is a woman whose party's sole aim is to split from the rest of the country.

    I am sad and ashamed at where we are as both a country and a continent but I'm proud that our country is the one that has said enough is enough.

    And I'm far from depressed about the future so long as we realise that this is an opportunity to take our country back but not from Brussels but from politics which is supposed to serve the people but currently serves only those with their snouts in the trough.

    I urge The Netherlands, Sweden, in fact all of you, to follow our lead and head for the .....exit (insert the first two letters of your country on the dotted line). Let's dismantle this arrogant Tower of Babel and rebuild it to do what it was designed to do - serve the citizens who live here.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    A BIG mistake from Cameron was not to allow 16 year olds to vote, a crazy
    Stupid decision :( showing how incompetent the remain leadership was !
    In many was the Leave camp didn't win, rather the remain camp gave it away.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 4,617
    Dont be put off by the fact its the Daily Mail, here is a link to a remarkable speech by Gove back in 2011 I think, where he is scathing about the dumbing down of modern politics and hints at the fact that the working class have become disconnected from politics. It went under the radar at the time but this is exactly what we are talking about know. It sounds dry but please do read.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2066141/MICHAEL-GOVES-SPEECH-How-reform-patronising-schools-stifle-ambition.html

    A quote:

    I think the most striking thing is how different the public of 130 years ago were.

    Or more specifically, how different were the expectations that the political class had of that public.

    It was assumed that an audience of agricultural labourers and mineworkers would either be familiar with or, at the very least be curious about, Pericles and Dryden, the intricacies of the Andrassy Note and the deficiencies of the San Stefano Treaty, the merits of Protection and the arguments from first principles for Free Trade.

    The public were paid the compliment of assuming they were intellectually curious. They weren’t patronised by being treated as rude mechanicals.

    It would have been unthinkable for Gladstone to have used the House of Commons to answer a question on the fate of a character in a soap opera, as Tony Blair did when he expressed his support for the innocence of Deirdre Rachid.


    It was a central argument of renaissance historians and political theorists that any republic or commonwealth - whether the Rome of the time before the Caesars or the Holland of the seventeenth century - needed citizens who were schooled in virtue if it was to survive and prosper.

    Open, and participative political systems could not long endure if men were left simply to follow their appetites or allowed, unprotected, to fall prey to demagoguery.

    If these polities were to succeed then citizens needed not just a technical education in a skill to earn their living or basic literacy and numeracy to learn the laws and pay their taxes. They needed to have learned lessons from history, studied the examples of great men from the past, developed robust reasoning skills, had a grounding in ethics, learned to appreciate the importance of art and music, architectural and natural beauty.

    Without that knowledge, that understanding that the survival and enhancement of a civilization and its culture mattered more than manoeuvring for personal advantage, a
    society it as thought would inevitably decline, dragging all its citizens with it.





  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    He does have a point.
  • Posts: 4,617
    A BIG mistake from Cameron was not to allow 16 year olds to vote, a crazy
    Stupid decision :( showing how incompetent the remain leadership was !
    In many was the Leave camp didn't win, rather the remain camp gave it away.

    Yes, a very fair point. Historians will have to work out how the PM with the support of most of the government and the infrastructure that went with it, almost the complete Lab party plus almost all of the economic institutions plus most of British business lost against what was a rag tag consisting of an ex Mayer of London, an ex Education Secretary, the Leader of UKIP (plus a "bitsa" team of helpers, mostly not recognised by the public).

    DC had every advantage possible within the campaign but still lost by 4 percentage points. He must still be having nightmares. How could he have lost?

  • The vitriol in this thread is getting quite depressing even for me who rates Threads as one of their favourite films.

    Yes I voted Brexit but I did so with a heavy heart and I don't share the jubilance of Farage et al.

    It seems only now the fuckwitted EU leaders have woken up and are thinking about reform and perhaps those of you who are still in it and benefit in years to come will occasionally raise a glass to the UK for martyring ourselves to drive positive change for the rest of you.

    Maybe the path we have chosen is a hard one but when the other choice was maintain the status quo and give Cameron and the EU a mandate of 'keep going as you are - everything is fine' it was hardly a difficult decision.

    And while everyone is quick to blame the uneducated masses who are don't understand all the nuances (GG's favourite word in this debate when he's trying to dig himself out of whatever particular cul de sac his argument has led him into), are basically all racist and who should just pay attention to those of us who live in London and know all about these things we should all have a look at ourselves. And yes that goes for you too Remainers.

    Because it is our apathy (all of us) and disinterest at the fact that we allow ourselves to be governed by contemptible, self serving parasites from Westminster to Brussels and can barely raise an eyebrow when Newsnight is on but cant wait to click 'play' the moment someone sends us a video of a fat kid falling off a skateboard on YouTube that has led us to this.

    You get what you deserve in life. We get governed by vaccuous suits who have not the slightest idea or concern about the issues that trouble the average Joe and whose sole interest is to enrich themselves because we deserve it.

    Politics in this country is almost extinct now. There is now only one party, who can squabble between themselves over who is leader but without any real pressure to deliver anything tangible because there is no opposition so they will get re-elected by default.

    The Lib Dems seem to have perfected Christian Bale's the Vanishing Man trick from The Prestige and Labour are less electable than the BNP. The sole opposition is a woman whose party's sole aim is to split from the rest of the country.

    I am sad and ashamed at where we are as both a country and a continent but I'm proud that our country is the one that has said enough is enough.

    And I'm far from depressed about the future so long as we realise that this is an opportunity to take our country back but not from Brussels but from politics which is supposed to serve the people but currently serves only those with their snouts in the trough.

    I urge The Netherlands, Sweden, in fact all of you, to follow our lead and head for the .....exit (insert the first two letters of your country on the dotted line). Let's dismantle this arrogant Tower of Babel and rebuild it to do what it was designed to do - serve the citizens who live here.

    Well said Sir, I too don't feel elated, you are spot on with politics, when we need greatness we are given mediocrity at best, alot of the problems are caused by the media placing these people on pedestals just to knock them off if they make the slightest mistake, any wonder that most people wouldn't enter the fray for all the tea in China.
  • patb wrote: »
    Dont be put off by the fact its the Daily Mail, here is a link to a remarkable speech by Gove back in 2011 I think, where he is scathing about the dumbing down of modern politics and hints at the fact that the working class have become disconnected from politics. It went under the radar at the time but this is exactly what we are talking about know. It sounds dry but please do read.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2066141/MICHAEL-GOVES-SPEECH-How-reform-patronising-schools-stifle-ambition.html

    A quote:

    I think the most striking thing is how different the public of 130 years ago were.

    Or more specifically, how different were the expectations that the political class had of that public.

    It was assumed that an audience of agricultural labourers and mineworkers would either be familiar with or, at the very least be curious about, Pericles and Dryden, the intricacies of the Andrassy Note and the deficiencies of the San Stefano Treaty, the merits of Protection and the arguments from first principles for Free Trade.

    The public were paid the compliment of assuming they were intellectually curious. They weren’t patronised by being treated as rude mechanicals.

    It would have been unthinkable for Gladstone to have used the House of Commons to answer a question on the fate of a character in a soap opera, as Tony Blair did when he expressed his support for the innocence of Deirdre Rachid.



    Very interesting view, I think this says a lot about todays general puplic, there is a malaise when it comes to politics, if you start to discuss the issues at a diner party you can see certains individuals start to glaze over & try to change the subject.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 11,425
    patb wrote: »
    So is the claim that the British public are now so thick and gullible that they can't be trusted with future referendum? And, if so, how can they be trusted to elect future Governments (or local governments). Perhaps X Factor and Eurovision should be the limits of their authority?
    Or is it that the youth of London are qualified and its older , working class voters who cant be trusted?
    I think there is a genuine debate to be had about how qualified the general public are to to make any decisions. But, if not, who does make the decisions? This debate strikes at the heart of the very meaning of democracy.

    PS The Brexit campaign cant come back down to Earth. The campaign is over. It ended at 10pm on the 23rd June and they won. It is now up to the government to enact the will of the people. NOT the vote leave team.

    We live in a representative parliamentary democracy. We elect people to make laws and take decisions on our behalf. Or we used to until Harold Wilson introduced referenda in 1975.


    The vitriol in this thread is getting quite depressing even for me who rates Threads as one of their favourite films.

    Yes I voted Brexit but I did so with a heavy heart and I don't share the jubilance of Farage et al.

    It seems only now the fuckwitted EU leaders have woken up and are thinking about reform and perhaps those of you who are still in it and benefit in years to come will occasionally raise a glass to the UK for martyring ourselves to drive positive change for the rest of you.

    Maybe the path we have chosen is a hard one but when the other choice was maintain the status quo and give Cameron and the EU a mandate of 'keep going as you are - everything is fine' it was hardly a difficult decision.

    And while everyone is quick to blame the uneducated masses who are don't understand all the nuances (GG's favourite word in this debate when he's trying to dig himself out of whatever particular cul de sac his argument has led him into), are basically all racist and who should just pay attention to those of us who live in London and know all about these things we should all have a look at ourselves. And yes that goes for you too Remainers.

    Because it is our apathy (all of us) and disinterest at the fact that we allow ourselves to be governed by contemptible, self serving parasites from Westminster to Brussels and can barely raise an eyebrow when Newsnight is on but cant wait to click 'play' the moment someone sends us a video of a fat kid falling off a skateboard on YouTube that has led us to this.

    You get what you deserve in life. We get governed by vaccuous suits who have not the slightest idea or concern about the issues that trouble the average Joe and whose sole interest is to enrich themselves because we deserve it.

    Politics in this country is almost extinct now. There is now only one party, who can squabble between themselves over who is leader but without any real pressure to deliver anything tangible because there is no opposition so they will get re-elected by default.

    The Lib Dems seem to have perfected Christian Bale's the Vanishing Man trick from The Prestige and Labour are less electable than the BNP. The sole opposition is a woman whose party's sole aim is to split from the rest of the country.

    I am sad and ashamed at where we are as both a country and a continent but I'm proud that our country is the one that has said enough is enough.

    And I'm far from depressed about the future so long as we realise that this is an opportunity to take our country back but not from Brussels but from politics which is supposed to serve the people but currently serves only those with their snouts in the trough.

    I urge The Netherlands, Sweden, in fact all of you, to follow our lead and head for the .....exit (insert the first two letters of your country on the dotted line). Let's dismantle this arrogant Tower of Babel and rebuild it to do what it was designed to do - serve the citizens who live here.

    There is a smattering of truth to this, but also a lot of lazy cynicism about politicians. Most MPs are not the immoral self serving types you seem to imply. And I think a lot of them genuinely care about their constituents. British politics is remarkably Un
    corrupt but you are right that there is a disconnect, and a high level of disengagement. There is also a lack of inspiring politicians and leaders.

    I think as @patb suggests one of the problems is that politics is actually really quite unappealing. Who would do it? They work long anti social hours. Many have to travel back and forth across the country and spend their weekends doing constituency work for which they get little or not thanks or more likely abuse.

    As you imply @Wizard, may be the problem is not so much our politicians
    as ourselves.

    Btw, glad you have a recession proof public sector job with Transport for London. Pity the poor buggers who work in the private sector who are now going to get screwed as the British economy misses out on a decade of investment and stagnates at best or goes down the pan at worst.

    What is so odd is that compared to many other places in the world the UK had been doing really quite well up unti
    l Friday. It's like we went into some bizarre irrational apoplexy because things were going too smoothly.

    I think there's a element of boredom behind the Brexit vote. After decades of peace, stability and generally rising living standards people just wanted some crazy sh*t to happen like in the good old days when people died at 45 if they were lucky and we all happily sent out kids off to get machine gunned on the continent.

    I mean, besides the genuinely disenfranchised working poor, who have genuine grievances, what were all these baby boomers sitting on piles of property gold actually so upset about?

    Irony of ironies that it was the
    generation that fought WW2 that took is into the EU and their feckless ingrate offspring that have taken us out.

  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,585
    Getafix wrote: »
    Putting aside the hilarious gags for a moment, do you in all honesty have any idea what Leave were offering as a future vision for the country?

    This vote and the Leave campaign just seems a classic example to me of being against everything but for nothing in particular. Blind rage against the status quo but with no clue of what the alternative actually is.

    Sounds like the Republicans here in the U.S.
  • Posts: 233
    I simply don't understand the jubilation of you Brexiters. You've voted to make yourselves poorer and damage Britain's status on the world stage - immigration is not going down and we are still going to abide by EU regulations. The world is too complicated for one country to dictate anything and the EU is going to make an example of us.
    Very interesting, would that leave you technically an EU citizen living in
    the UK ? Sort of the best of both worlds. :)

    Actually yes, I'll hold dual Irish - British citizenship and enjoy the benefits of both passports.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Well played @JawsIsAlive :)

  • Campbell2Campbell2 Epsilon Rho Rho house, Bending State University
    edited June 2016 Posts: 299


    I urge The Netherlands, Sweden, in fact all of you, to follow our lead and head for the .....exit (insert the first two letters of your country on the dotted line). Let's dismantle this arrogant Tower of Babel and rebuild it to do what it was designed to do - serve the citizens who live here.

    This is hilarious! Nationalists of the world, unite! Become...Nationalists International!

    =))


    Apart from that some comments I can actually agree with. An early post of mine in this thread shared some points, only then of course one still had to campaign hard.

    Let's set the record straight about this, this is not about being democratic or bureaucratic or what ever else people claim it to be. This is simply about the generation of Brits who grew up under the old milk snatcher. At the time she was despised by a lot of peeps who claim to love her today. But whatever you think of her, she got us a splendid deal with the EU, the Continent's tribute for freeing it from the Nazis. That was a foine deal, especially since those who profited from our British rebate the most are the generations who never served, never fought a war and who didn't do jack sh*t to earn this country the greatness they constantly claim it deserves since that's what it says in the title.

    Some of these grew up in peace and prosperity and in the misguided sense of entitlement that the world owed them these luxuries because, frankly, that's what it means to be a Brit, no? Sounds much cosier than Herrenmensch, also much easier to pronounce than these filthy German butcher terms. And for decades things were splendid and everybody was fine with them. This country was a bloody nightmare when it entered the EU. In a city it would have been the part where the rubbish collection brought the trash. But thanks to favourable circumstances it became one of the strongest economies of the EU. Within the EU. Something in that deeply undemocratic scheme must have worked right. Perhaps all those freeloaders and boarders kept their trap shut because they profited from that horrible nepotism they now bemoan?

    However, with time the EU became bigger, the UK became smaller and all of a sudden there are peeps who feel the EU is taking their "identity" away. The EU, not the dullards they voted themselves into power, not the shi**y television program, not their 24/7 clinging to their mobiles and touchscreens. No, it's the EU, of course. They claim that Britain is no longer "Great" and fail to see how every generation has to earn themselves that attribute again. Or be content with what it gets. And frankly, I despise these cissy whiners because that's exactly what they are. This is not about being patriotic, about loving your country. This is mostly about nationalism, about hating the countries of others, hoping in time they will feel as miserable about theirs as we do about ours. In other words, this is what spoilt brats get up to when they don't get what they insist they need. This is one nation unable to compromise, unable to adapt. Unable to deal with reality, so we do the next best thing and throw a tantrum.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Perhaps the Remainers should "Take Control" ;)
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I simply don't understand the jubilation of you Brexiters. You've voted to make yourselves poorer and damage Britain's status on the world stage - immigration is not going down and we are still going to abide by EU regulations. The world is too complicated for one country to dictate anything and the EU is going to make an example of us.

    I doubt we're all jubilent. Some might feel like a LEAVE vote was the only option. And better control of immigration wasn't the only reason to vote, there was that extortionate £350M a week fee as well (the money we have back is irrelevant).
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I simply don't understand the jubilation of you Brexiters. You've voted to make yourselves poorer and damage Britain's status on the world stage - immigration is not going down and we are still going to abide by EU regulations. The world is too complicated for one country to dictate anything and the EU is going to make an example of us.

    I doubt we're all jubilent. Some might feel like a LEAVE vote was the only option. And better control of immigration wasn't the only reason to vote, there was that extortionate £350M a week fee as well (the money we have back is irrelevant).

    That £350 million pledge was debunked, check your facts, it was utter bollocks.
This discussion has been closed.