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The transformation all the leavers wanted is going to be swift and deeply unpleasant.
Well done you 'patriots'. You've totally screwed the legacy left us by the generation that fought a world war and swore they'd never let it happen again.
I find your type of negative nancy really, really offensive, I've fought for this country in 3 conflicts (Falklands, Bosnian & Gulf War 1), have you? If you don't like it move to Scotland who will no doubt leave the UK or better still France (You could join the Foreign Legion if your fit enough), if you think this country is so bad, please leave. I don't know how old you are but I've seen what EU regulations have done to wages/salaries since Blair signed the Lisbon treaty.
PS: I'd also point out that in all 3 of the conflicts the EU's response could only be descibed as underwhelming.
First of all, cut out all the stupid jingoist, nationalist bullsh*t. Forget it right here. This is thinking that got us into the 14/18 war, it won't help today. Pack those trolls and give them a football pitch to duke it out. This thread alone would shrink by 30 pages. Anybody who constantly has to claim how great this Britain is didn't understand how if you have to trumpet it yourself you already admit nobody else thinks so.
Secondly, let's get real.
Britain gambled and she lost. The deed is done and so is the damage. It will not help if bumbling Boris tries to avoid the worst by just not showing up to the shootout. Every hour, every day the uncertainty for the economy and the damage to all of us is becoming worse. Ignoring the referendum is not an option, the country is divided and far more than we bargained for. Whichever way it goes now, this is the finest hour of the crazies, from here on it's downward in each direction. A clueless bunch of egomaniacs got their will, now they will have to face the music. I have no doubt my fellow countrymen will soon call for their heads.
But I said, let's get real.
How can we solve the mess we got ourselves into? We must realise what we are, or used to be, a nation of traders and dealers. Contrary to our loudmouths we are not really the worlds greatest fighters. But we are not the worst hagglers either. Some might say we're pretty decent at that.
We've heard, or still hear by some, how we should throw around our weight a bit. Smashing idea, kindly take the exit, will you? No need for the train to stop, you won't notice the difference anyway. So with this nonsens BS out of the way, what actually can we do? By the by, always using the 'we' figuratively, we are now pretty much beyond 'we'.
What we can do, or rather Boris, and this perhaps the greatest service he can do the nation, is to see to it that at least the parts of its people who clearly opposed this vote are swiftly released from the Union. This will be a tough deal, won't agree with all the peeps who have a messy little love affair with their Union Jacks. But in the long run you can't hold them anyway. And if you play it halfway clever all sides can profit.
I used to vote for Scotland independence two years ago. Back then my side lost because it simply didn't convince. Many stupid claims were made, often nebulous BS. Now that can be solved with a more realistic theme to the benefit of both England and Scotland. Ideally this would be an included package with England leaving the EU and Scotland staying. England would still be massively hurt economically. But it could profit by proxy from the independence deal with Edinburgh. Maybe a similar deal can be struck with Northern Ireland. The EU will likely be hesitant about both deals because of Spain and their own regional independence movement. But in effect the people in both parts merely want to stay.
Remains Gibraltar, don't see how that can be held without massive financial aid from London once they are out. This will probably be the toughest deal because it's really too small for even a prosperous nation to hold for long. And once the generous influx of wealthy tourists becomes a dribble any remaining sympathy for the UK will soon be history. Better give it back as long as it's worth anything.
This way the largest possible number of people get what they want.
I hope Jeremy Corbyn stays. Like you said he was more in touch with Labour voters (heck, with a majority of voters period) and he had the decency to accept the democratic choice Britain made.
How true. Where there is money to be made, the money people will be there. I personally know 3 of them who shorted the market on Tuesday and are sitting on a pile of 19M+ pounds on Sunday. And they say they're still not done/
First of all, there's a practical reason. This meeting was already planned months back, even before a Brexit.
Alas, now it appears like 6 elite founding countries leave the other 21 EU members rumbling in the dark. Perhaps it would have been better to cancel this particular summit for the sake of good appearance.
It is what it is. I still think we're in a shit, dire situation, as you can read here: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/b1a2d66e-3715-11e6-9a05-82a9b15a8ee7.html?ftcamp=traffic/social_promo/Brexit_5_consequences_24June/Facebook_EMEA/essence/auddev&utm_source=Facebook_EMEA&utm_medium=social_promo&utm_term=Brexit_5_consequences_24June&utm_campaign=essence&segid=0201064#axzz4CbPrGinT
But it is what it is. Personally, for me as a EU-supporter, but also as a supporter for the Dutch cause, I think it's necessary to make the rest of the EU a welcome haven for companies that are now located in the UK.
I respect the British for their choice, but I also think now that we need to leave the UK alone and let them deal with their choice. We are separating. Fact. We, the remaining EU-members, now need to act and to protect mainland Europe.
Like I predicted many months ago, the real divorce between the UK and the EU will be a bitter fight. And make no mistake, the UK has a long way to become another 'Norway' or 'Switzerland'. But still, we have to divorce now, and quickly. No delays.
So you are a veteran? Respect. Shame that you apparently fought all these wars only so that you can bully around people who don't agree with you. I'm not sure that was exactly the idea behind it, no?
Guys, did you read my last post?
Not going to bully anyone, just don't spout crap about patriots & war veterens, what's done is done, if it had gone with remain by even one vote I personally would have accepted it, because I believe in democracy, let's face fact's for once, close to 13 million eligable voters couldn't be arsed to vote, so in my book they have accepted the result by default.
I'm too f**king old to give a stuff for my own personal circumstances either way, even though with BREXIT my own finances may well be impacted. I voted leave because I truly believe that it will be better for future generations that's all, I care about my grandchildren & their children not yet born, this is not about the next week, month, year or 5 years, it's about the next 50 years.
Some quotes from Prime Minister Nicola Sturgeon in this Sunday article:
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/26/nicola-sturgeon-new-scottish-referendum-brexit
It will be interesting to see if in the very near future Westminster is going to treat Scotland similarly to how Madrid is treating the Catalunya independence movement right now: Which is in an oppressing way. Nobody talks about it, but I think it's entirely valid.
Obviously, Scotland is not able to veto the Brexit in the UK Parliament of Westminster. And Scotland can't enter the EU if Westminster executes the Brexit, because Spain will always veto that desire. Again, the Brexit referendum shows what dire and severe consequences are on hand. Perhaps that's why Boris Johnson is hiding?
Soldier, just watch your step is all I ask. We've learned that much, haven't we? You will get what you wanted anyway, no need to become an a*se over it now. You served thy country, you know better than this. Good luck and fare thee well.
forget about getting real, crank up the Proms and lets all
get down !
What the hell do you mean by that. Sometime you seem to be applauding like a clown :-). I fail to find any context in that remark.
In a way......David Cameron seems to be the personification of Neville Chamberlain. He played poker, and he dramatically lost.
Yesterday I watched Nieuwsuur (news/political program in The Netherlands) and David Cameron will be received in Brussels with harsh coldness.
They are at the moment looking at ways to simply keep Scotland in the EU. The EU can't exactly ignore this since it's not about outsiders wanting to join but members not wanting to leave. Spain will be a tough case in talks but they also will have a price. A lot becomes possible if just the willingness is there to move. Madrid likewise won't be able to hold down Catalunya forever if they insist.
All willingness is completely gone. You have to trust me on that. There is the Lisbon Treaty, that clearly stipulates that new countries can only enter the EU if all memberstates unanimously vote for its entrance and don't veto it. That very Lisbon Treaty has been negotiated with all member states, including Spain and the UK.
So the EU doesn't need to show any willingness at all. The UK is in the driver's seat now. They need to solve this 'problem' first, and not just Scotland, but also Northern-Ireland. But again....where's the Tory leadership? Shameful really.
It's called sarcasm old boy, the life blood of any forum. :D
sarcasm
noun: sarcasm; plural noun: sarcasms
"the use of irony to mock or convey contempt."
synonyms: derision, mockery, ridicule, satire, irony, scorn, sneering, scoffing, gibing, taunting
Y'know I voted remain but I appreciate this outlook. You're right it is about the future. And personally that makes the result all the more saddening for me given that the majority 18-25 year olds (the people it'll affect the most in the long run, out of those old enough to vote anyway) voted remain whilst the age group that had the highest percentage of leave over remain voters were people over 60. I'm not saying that older people shouldn't have a say, I'm getting into my mid 30s myself I'm not a part of the youngest demographic in this, but I think that not enough people took into consideration who this would affect the most.
Anyway what I'm trying to say is that I don't agree with the choice that you made, but I respect you for at least making it for good reasons.
Yeah, interesting. But I prefer less interesting times.....
No, this is not what I meant. The exit clause is not nearly as specific. Here you can negotiate the terms of who will leave the EU by which time. With the proper wording England and Wales leave the EU, the rest simply stays. No, not with the conditions of the old UK, that's for sure. But there would not be a need for an extended process to rejoin either.
Yes, almost as funny as you starting to throw out people from the country, isn't it? I chuckled.
The last 15 years have shown us this (I think the first time I saw it was with the US election in 2000). Improbable is the 'new norm'. Volatility is 'in'.