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The EU on their behalf is quite sick and tired about 'renegotiations'. A deal was already renegotiated heavily. And that's actually what this referendum is about. Voting "YES" or "NO" with regard to staying in the EU and all its renegotiated terms (executed last year by Cameron).
Brussels has already said that it isn't in the modd to start negotiations on trade agreements with the EU once the UK leaves the EU. They are not willing at all to turn the UK into a 2nd Norway. Because Norway always stood firm, they always said "NO" to the EU. European politicians might feel angry and disrespected by the UK. So don't expect any trade agreement negotiations anytime soon.
The UK has to survive on its own altogether, without Norway-esque trade agreements.
That's Britain, as we're having a vote, no one else is ? I agree you didn't say it directly, after all
All the best insults are "Implied"
Only clearing up a point you raised, as like a kid I'm running away (:|
Not getting involved in this argument again.
I feel as welcome as a fart in a space suit .
Every deal, how well negotiated, would have been marked as 'insufficient'. Even if that deal would include an unofficial leave. Deals are about compromising. Always and foremost. And that is a fact that a lot of people can't swallow.
But, I am stunned that you feel personally attacked by that. I never called you personally a xenophobe. It's not an insult. I get that blaimfinger all the time. If I mention the Interbellum for instance, people start to say that I am insulting all the time.
These discussions are not about feeling welcome @Thunderpussy. These discussions are about serious issues. And I am very sorry, but you make it sound that leaving the EU is a great thing. I don't. I sincerely believe it will have dire consequences. And in a free world -at least for now- I have every right to say that.
But please don't take things so personal.
Confrontational type of discussion.
I don't want to make people like you feel bad :(. I just want to know your arguments too @Thunderpussy. It would be so nice if you can....at least give a valid set of arguments why you think leaving the UK is a good thing.
We are still picking the fruit from running like blind morons after Bush Jr his stupid and unwarranted wars in The middle east, guess whose political leadership did know about the lie and decided to follow blindly.
Leaving the EU will be a blow for the EU but they will survive, the UK is under some idea that renegatiations will be to the Uk's benefit. I doubt it sincerely as they already got way too much from the last compromise. UK will be an economic solist with not that much too offer, and Especially Trumps US will milk the UK as much as he can as he if for US first and the rest last. So economical I expect the UK will be bleeding severely.
From The European Parliament
In order to get Britain to vote to stay in Europe,English
Will become the official European Language .
However, our Government had to accept that 'English'
had room for improvement and has agreed to a five year phase-in of amendments.
In the first year, ' S' will replace the soft 'C'
Sertainly making Sivil Servants happy!
The hard 'C' will be dropped in favour of 'K' to klear up
any konfusion,
There will be much publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when 'ph' will be replaced by 'F' making words like fotograf much shorter.
In year 3, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan
be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible; the removal of
double letters which have always ben a deterent to
akurate speling.
Also al wil agre that the horibl silent 'e' in the languag is
useless .
By yer 4 pepl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing
'h' with 'z' and 'w' with 'v' .
In ze fifz yer, ze unesesary 'o' kan be dropd from vords
kontaining 'ou', so in zips yer, ve vil hav a sensibl riten styl.
Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi tu understand ech oza.
Und after zis fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German;
lik zey vunted in ze first plas.
Oh I see. That's how democracy works is it? Once you vote for something you are stuck with it for life?
You are correct to say that in 1976 the Labour shambles of a government had the country on its knees and we thought the EU sounded like a good idea.
40 years on its the EU that's on its knees now so why would we want to stay in?
All well and good all your fluffy 'let's all work together, think of your grandchildren' drivel but the reality of life is people think 'how will this affect house prices and my pension?' And for some strange reason a lot of people in the UK seem to think that being in a partnership with economic lame ducks like Greece is hardly a desirable state of affairs.
Just because you're happy with the status quo doesn't mean everyone is. And just because we want out isn't a vote in favour of our politicians its more a rejection of of the Eurocrats.
What? How is that going to happen?
I don't think Vlad is scared in the slightest of the EU with or without the UK. We need his gas too much so to think the EU is some sort of serious bulwark against him is a bit of an underwhelming argument.
In a way, me too. If there's one country who always observed the European continent without actually being located on it, then it's the UK. The UK was never a true European voice. And when they joined the EU in the 1970's, they joined purely for economical/financial reasons, whereas the initial founders of the EU were really into creating a loose union to maintain peace and prosperity so close after WW II.
Would be interesting to see what kind of mess we'll get once the UK leaves this month.
Democracy trumps everything and the Camster's faux nego was for the read and laugh file.
He went for 'thin gruel' and he came back with 'no gruel'.
The boy's a ConFed and he should do the honest thing and come out.
Trade will continue exactly as before. The first one to blink over that one will be smoking boots before he can say mine's a Vesper !
The Merka will want to sell just as many emission cheating vehicles in the US as she's always done. Ditto the French with their wine and cheese.
Of course we'll have to abide by Eu laws when we export to member countries. You have to do that with any country you export to but we won't have to abide by them in our home market.
We'll be free to do trade deals with who we like without having to agree them with 27 others who all want something different. Just look at TTIP, it's in tatters.
Obamarama gave us one of his pregnant pause speeches and told us we'd be at the back of the queue albeit he didn't really understand that there is no queue.
Economically, providing the Eu doesn't collapse we'll be just fine.
The risk is contagion. When we vote out Denmark and Sweden could well bolt for the door and there could be significant unrest in other countries. I hope that doesn't happen but if it does, democracy has to prevail and more fool the eurocrats for embarking on their power play.
The € is a busted flush and who'd want to be in a club with 27 others who all want a federal Europe. Up your Junker !
I've heard worse. Evidently the Camster is now saying that if we come out we'll suffer a plague of a new strain of syphilis only curable with an antidote sold my the Merka.
But the EU is a mess to begin with anyway. It's a loose union as you say that is behaving like a federation and bosses around what should be sovereign nations. A union that has become morbidly obese: too many members, too many bureaucrats, too many rules one has to abide, etc. It's one of the reasons I don't like it and I am probably going to vote out. That and the fact that the IN campaign has been using cheap scare tactics.
I understand your reasoning. As long as you use your vote carefully. Then you can vote whatever you want. I think it's also better if I do not post in here anymore. We all have our worries. But once we make the division worse, it's better to move away.
The EU simply can't work because of the cultural and economical differences between the northern, east and southern countries. We don't even speak the same language...
If Britain is excluded from the "common" market - it just goes to show what kind of "union" you were a member of.
Another thing is the horrid that is the euro. Southern countries are a complete mess financially and stronger countries will have to pay to keep them from going bankrupt (including Britain). The euro might have worked when only economically strong countries participated (The Netherlands, Germany, Denmark, Belgium etc.).
I hope it's out, and I hope other countries will follow soon after. Let's us then work together closely as european countries but let the people of the countries make their own choices.
I found the documentary "Brexit the movie" to be very interesting:
I just did an extensive comparison between the Scotland-Independence Referendum and the Brexit Referendum, and in all honesty, the "Leaving the EU"-vote has a much better shot at winning the Brexit referendum than the "Scotland Becomes Independent"-vote 2 years ago. Here's me analysis with trend lines:
You are raising a fair point. Scotland will demand a 2nd referendum to opt out from the United Kingdom. Because for Scotland the EU has many more advantages. Actually, Scotland has always been more pro-EU than the other countries of the British Realm in Europe (Northern-Ireland, Wales and England).
In all honesty, I hope people at least agree with me on one point: A vote to leave the EU will result in more unstability, more unknowns and more risks about the short-term future of the economy as compared to the 'remain in the EU'-vote.
There. Thank you. You're hitting the nail on the head. Scapegoating is a common practice in societies which are more fearful.
I seem to remember you predicting the deaths of millions of people in Europe in another thread about a similar subject a few months ago. Enough with the fear mongering on both the Pro-EU side and the Brexit side.
Excuse me? Perhaps you are referring to a Grexit? But I don't recall that I predicted the death of millions. Your remark worries me.
Germany didn't have to face any burden. Merkel said everyone is welcome.
I feel sorry for Greece as they are the first port of call for all the refugees and the EU (including Britain) should do more do assist them with this problem. And I also feel sorry for small countries between Greece and Germany like Slovenia and Slovakia who thanks to Merkel deciding to speak for the whole continent led to thousands hammering on their borders trying to get to the promised land.
Although the Syrians are something of a non argument in the Brexit debate as we don't have to let them in as they are non EU and Britain is not in the Schengen.
Having said that how long before Merkel gives them all EU passports and they can go where they want?
Agreed.
But that's not a reason to vote to stay. If you have gangrene do you sit there watching it move up your leg or do you accept the unknowns of what life will be like without it and cut it off?
Yes there is a fear of the unknown if we go but the fear of the known is worse.
Hopefully the UK leaving followed by countries like Sweden and the Netherlands will be the slap across the chops the away needs to reform itself from the bloated FIFA clone that it has become.
Bang on Sir.
If the option of joining an EU premier league of Germany, Nerherlands, Sweden, Austria, Belgium, Denmark, Finland and (grudgingly) France I'd be straight in. It's the southern countries that drag us all down.
The UK still has balls [Vote LEAVE]
The UK is castrated [Vote REMAIN]