The June 2016 UK Referendum on EU Membership: [UPDATE] What kind of BREXIT do YOU want?

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  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?

    One would certainly hope not. ;)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Do you get to vote just once, or again and again until the result is correct?
  • Posts: 11,119
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?

    One would certainly hope not. ;)

    I certainly hope there are.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    Do you get to vote just once, or again and again until the result is correct?

    Well that's how things used to be in Northern Ireland; even the dead voted!

  • Posts: 520
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?

    No, but Federalists should be more honest. There is a legitimate argument to be had for a federal Europe. The 'Remainers' just don't make it because they know it would loose them the referendum.

    For me it's simple. I believe that our own elected politicians are remote enough. I certainly don't want to further empower an unelected elitist autocracy that is even further away from the coal face.

    I can kick out our n'er-do-wells every five years. The Eurocrats are there until they die and that was always the grand design.

    People who support this way of doing things - and the Camster is one - believe that people are fundamentally too stupid to govern themselves. I fundamentally disagree and boy, I bet the Greeks wish they'd never joined ! Everybody in the € is fundamentally shafted. The game for them is over.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I think the EU referendum question essentially boils down to:

    The UK still has balls [Vote LEAVE]
    The UK is castrated [Vote REMAIN]

    Well said Sir!!

    We're Great Britain for Christ's sake. The clues in the title! They don't call it Great Estonia or Great Portugal do they?

    Are we really so terrified to stand on our own two feet without needing crutches in the shape of Lithuania or Luxembourg to prop us up?
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?

    Not at all. I love visiting, working and living in Europe. But the EU in its current guise is not fit for purpose.

    I love the World Cup but that doesn't mean I don't think FIFA needs dissolving and starting from scratch.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?

    One would certainly hope not. ;)

    I certainly hope there are.

    I'm pro-European. But then again I live in a country that is more or less a mini EU.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?

    One would certainly hope not. ;)

    I certainly hope there are.

    I'm pro-European. But then again I live in a country that is more or less a mini EU.
    How does that work out for you? Do you have a government this week?
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,718
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?

    One would certainly hope not. ;)

    I certainly hope there are.

    I'm pro-European. But then again I live in a country that is more or less a mini EU.
    How does that work out for you? Do you have a government this week?

    Governments change, the lies stay the same. ;)

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Wise words.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,281
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?

    One would certainly hope not. ;)

    I certainly hope there are.

    I'm pro-European. But then again I live in a country that is more or less a mini EU.
    How does that work out for you? Do you have a government this week?

    Governments change, the lies stay the same. ;)

    "Politics makes liars of us all." - Joe Devlin in Columbo: The Conspirators (1978).
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Do you get to vote just once, or again and again until the result is correct?

    Looks like the EU's democracy works that way.
  • Posts: 11,119
    It would be a good idea to ask this poll question?

    1. Are you in favour of staying in the EU?
    2. What nationality are you?

  • Posts: 342
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    I think the EU referendum question essentially boils down to:

    The UK still has balls [Vote LEAVE]
    The UK is castrated [Vote REMAIN]

    Do you really think leaving the EU will give us back independence? Do you really think that big business and/or the US will allow that?

    Just look at the new TTIP. Cameron would sign in a heart beat - it's only the French via the EU that is keeping it at bay

  • Posts: 11,119
    The UK still think they rule the waves. It's the good old 'Brittannia rules it again'. I find it egocentric and it basically shows how much the UK has lost a true sense of internationalism. The days of the British Empire are over.

    Still, if the UK votes to leave the EU, it would be fascinating to see what's going to happen after that.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    The UK still think they rule the waves. It's the good old 'Brittannia rules it again'. I find it egocentric and it basically shows how much the UK has lost a true sense of internationalism. The days of the British Empire are over.
    And here today I remember this, I think from Tennyson:

    "We are not now that strength, which in old days moved earth and heaven; that which we are, we are. One equal temper of heroic hearts, made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield."
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,184
    @Gustav_Graves, see my post from Saturday. I'm in your camp.
  • Posts: 11,119
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @Gustav_Graves, see my post from Saturday. I'm in your camp.

    Actually, I don't like to be in a camp anymore. I am pro-EU. And I have got some damn good reasons for that. I am just....really afraid of what will happen if in two weeks time the UK votes "Leave". Really...afraid. Not because of that other camp. But because of the stability of all the countries on the European continent.

    If people think everything will be better once the EU disintegrates, then I say to those: "Let's see how prosperity and welfare looks like in 20 years time from now".

    Anyway, the nuance is mostly gone in such discussions. And really, I am also partially to blaim. One thing is for sure, the fierce discussions in here already show that the established middle class is loosing. But also the progressive centrists, like me. I am tired of being labeled a 'leftie', when I'm myelf both anti-right-wing and anti-left-wing. The only way out from this mess is right through the middle, with a centrist, long-term, progressive and positive vision for the future. I am a realist and I shall never become a populist. I also posted many arguments in which I stated that the EU needs to reform, that the EU-politicians need to become really more empathic with the people. But people don't read that anymore.

    I am officially a 'traitor'. Anyway, let's see what happens.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    If you think the UK and the US are separate entities, you are deluded.
  • Posts: 11,119
    If you think the UK and the US are separate entities, you are deluded.

    I wouldn't say deluded. Just......unrealistic. Just look at the world population. It keeps growing and growing. Our planet becomes smaller and smaller. The immigrant crisis already shows that the poorest people on this planet are already empowering themselves. This will not stop. As long as prosperity is not equally divided, these problems will keep returning. Thinking that you can 'lock up' your country from the outside world has proven itself as a failure in the long-term.

  • edited June 2016 Posts: 342
    A divorce from the US empire - that's a referendum we will never be allowed to have
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    So the plan is working.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2016 Posts: 23,883
    The EU is an artifical construct. One designed to support & benefit a block of countries at the expense of others. That is its purpose, pure and simple, no matter how it is dressed up. Those countries are not a holistic block. They are quite distinct, culturally and economically, and therefore they cannot, in an environment of deep flux and change, survive as a block without changes to the rules which govern them.

    The environment outside is hostile and stormy. A branch must move with the wind, or break. Chinese proverb say:

    "The green reed which bends in the wind is stronger than the mighty oak which breaks in a storm."

    It's as simple as that.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    bondjames wrote: »
    A branch must move with the wind, or break. Chinese proverb say:

    .

    Unless the branch makes the wind.
  • Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    The EU is an artifical construct.[/i]

    It's as simple as that.

    Yes, one that was founded on the ruins of a devastating Second World War. Artificial construct or not.....the construct gave us decades....7 decades of prosperity and peace. I actually find it a blasphemy how people refer the EU to as a construct that is as artificial as Nazi Germany, then people loose every bit of nuance and context. Those are not my words by the way. People should read Boris Johnson's words. Once I start making such comparisons though, to defend the very EU, I am thrown away as a fear mongerer, a devil's prophet. Ughh.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    The EU is an artifical construct.[/i]

    It's as simple as that.

    Yes, one that was founded on the ruins of a devastating Second World War. Artificial construct or not.....the construct gave us decades....7 decades of prosperity and peace. I actually find it a blasphemy how people refer the EU to as a construct that is as artificial as Nazi Germany, then people loose every bit of nuance and context. Those are not my words by the way. People should read Boris Johnson's words. Once I start making such comparisons though, to defend the very EU, I am thrown away as a fear mongerer, a devil's prophet. Ughh.
    There you go with the Nazi thing again, and the devil too. You manage to throw that in with a speech on losing nuance and context. Hilarious.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Didn t Boris Johnson call the EU the 4th Reich?
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Boris, obviously knows his history.
  • edited June 2016 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The EU is an artifical construct.[/i]

    It's as simple as that.

    Yes, one that was founded on the ruins of a devastating Second World War. Artificial construct or not.....the construct gave us decades....7 decades of prosperity and peace. I actually find it a blasphemy how people refer the EU to as a construct that is as artificial as Nazi Germany, then people loose every bit of nuance and context. Those are not my words by the way. People should read Boris Johnson's words. Once I start making such comparisons though, to defend the very EU, I am thrown away as a fear mongerer, a devil's prophet. Ughh.
    There you go with the Nazi thing again, and the devil too. You manage to throw that in with a speech on losing nuance and context. Hilarious.

    And what are you? The next PM of the UK? The truth? A person that is more nuanced than this lovely man?

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/14/boris-johnson-the-eu-wants-a-superstate-just-as-hitler-did/

    You're blaiming me for loosing context and nuance, and others who actually support your case get a 'blanc cheque' into saying anithing they want. If I am hilarious, you are Roger Moore in a clowns suit.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    The EU is an artifical construct.[/i]

    It's as simple as that.

    Yes, one that was founded on the ruins of a devastating Second World War. Artificial construct or not.....the construct gave us decades....7 decades of prosperity and peace. I actually find it a blasphemy how people refer the EU to as a construct that is as artificial as Nazi Germany, then people loose every bit of nuance and context. Those are not my words by the way. People should read Boris Johnson's words. Once I start making such comparisons though, to defend the very EU, I am thrown away as a fear mongerer, a devil's prophet. Ughh.
    There you go with the Nazi thing again, and the devil too. You manage to throw that in with a speech on losing nuance and context. Hilarious.

    And what are you? The next PM of the UK? The truth?
    No. You appear to have the truth all sewn up, in your own frightened mind at least. Fortunately, your predictions of doom and gloom don't scare me. I'll think for myself thank you very much.
This discussion has been closed.