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Spectre versus the field: Skyfall
This thread was initially run by @Perilagu_Khan, but it seems to have disappeared.
Mod edit: indeed, somehow the thread was lost. We apologise, though we cannot figure out what may have gone wrong. @Soundofthesinners is willing to continue the original thread but since that content has vanished, it might be interesting to restart the entire thing. :-)
PTS:
Title Track:
Title Credits:
Main Villain:
Main Bond Girl:
Henchman:
Overall Plot:
Dialogue:
Score:
Settings:
Action:
Humor:
Cinematography:
Benign Bizarre:
Suspense:
Minor Characters:
Glamour:
BOND PERFORMANCE:
Mod edit: indeed, somehow the thread was lost. We apologise, though we cannot figure out what may have gone wrong. @Soundofthesinners is willing to continue the original thread but since that content has vanished, it might be interesting to restart the entire thing. :-)
PTS:
Title Track:
Title Credits:
Main Villain:
Main Bond Girl:
Henchman:
Overall Plot:
Dialogue:
Score:
Settings:
Action:
Humor:
Cinematography:
Benign Bizarre:
Suspense:
Minor Characters:
Glamour:
BOND PERFORMANCE:
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Comments
Sounds like another of those pesky 'computer glitches' that stopped the Nikki thread bumping!;)
Title Track: DN
Title Credits: DN
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: SP
Overall Plot: SP
Dialogue: DN
Score: DN
Settings: SP
Action: SP
Humor: SP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: DN
Glamour: DN
Bond: DN
SP: 9
DN: 8
Title Track: DN - I'm not a WOTW hater by any means but it's the goddam James Bond theme!
Title Credits: SP - I prefer Kleinmann's efforts to the dots and calypso dancers. However if we're counting the DN GB as part of the credits then I would give it to DN.
Main Villain: DN - Set the template for everyone to follow and despite the short screen time is still tough to beat.
Main Bond Girl: SP - Honey isn't the brightest and the brain is the most erotic organ so I'm giving it to Dr Madeline Swann. And Lea's jubblies are a match for Ursula's anyway!
Henchman: SP - Poor old Prof Dent, a bit of an amateur out of his depth. He can't compare to a man mountain who looks simply unbeatable in the train fight until Madeline intervenes.
Overall Plot: DN - Simple cast iron spying plot v foster brothers, the MI6 crew tagging along everywhere and a limp climax.
Dialogue: DN - The scenes with Slyvia, M and Dr No bristle with cracking lines.
Score: DN - I'm tempted to give this to SP as I've already given the Bond theme the nod as the title track for DN. But given Newman's laziness in copy and pasting he doesn't deserve it and 'Jump Up Jamaica' and 'Underneath The Mango Tree' are cracking tunes even if the rest of the score is pretty awful.
Settings: SP - I always prefer European locations even though Jamaica does look great in Bluray.
Action: SP - By default as the fight with Jones is pretty poor as is the car chase. But then DN is not really about the action.
Humor: SP - DN is not without humour but I think SP shades it.
Cinematography: SP - DN does look amazing on Bluray but cinematography is one area where the Mendes era has got it bang on.
Benign Bizarre: DN - Three blind mice, tarantula room, the dragon, metal hands: all this beats the SPECTRE meeting room, the meteorite and torture scene for me.
Suspense: DN - Builds fantastically so that when Dr No finally says '1 million dollars Mr Bond' we are almost apprehensive as Bond. Whereas SP falls apart in the final act.
Minor Characters: SP - Mr White, Lucia Sciarra and decent turns from the MI6 regulars is enough to win this even though Quarrel is a really good ally.
Glamour: SP - You can't really beat shagging Monica Belucci in posh Italian villa then racing two super cars past the Vatican. That's the life.
(I'm going to take it upon myself to add one more category that I think needs inclusion - Bond himself. I think something is amiss when we have two separate categories about music but not one about the man himself so I trust no one will object?)
Bond: DN - Dan is damn good but this is possibly Sean's best performance in the role and probably top 3 of Bond performances of all time. Has it all and given he didn't have 50 years to reference its a class performance.
Total
DN - 8
SP - 9
A surprising win for SP!! Who'd have thought it? I could swear DN beat it last time I did this!
Title Track: DN
Title Credits: SP
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: DN
Henchman: SP
Overall Plot: DN
Dialogue: DN
Score: SP
Settings: SP
Action: SP
Humor: DN
Cinematography: DN
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: DN
Glamour: DN
DN: 9
SP: 7
I do agree with @theWiz's inclusion of the Bond category, so if there's no objection, I'd like to give my vote too:
DN
So that's-
DN: 10
SP: 7
Title Track: DN
Title Credits: DN
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: SP
Overall Plot: DN
Dialogue: DN
Score: SP
Settings: SP
Action: SP
Humor: SP
Cinematography: DN
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: DN
Glamour: DN
Bond: DN
DN: 9
SP: 8
Title Credits: DN
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: DN
Henchman: DN
Overall Plot: DN
Dialogue: DN
Score: DN
Settings: DN
Action: DN
Humor: DN
Cinematography: DN
Benign Bizarre: DN
Suspense: DN
Minor Characters: DN
Glamour: DN
Bond: DN
DN: 17
SP: 0
Title Credits: SP
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: DN
Overall Plot: DN
Dialogue: DN
Score: SP
Settings: SP
Action: SP
Humor: DN
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: DN
Suspense: DN
Minor Characters: DN
Glamour: DN
Bond: DN
DN: 11
SP: 6
You pick the film that you think is better in each category, with a brief explanation if you like. Then you put the total at the end with any additional comments. And yes, as @TheWizardOfIce said, we ought to add a category for Bond himself.
Anyway!
PTS: SP by default, I suppose.
Title Track: DN (I always counted Three Blind Mice as the theme, but it seems the Bond theme itself is the consensus pick)
Title Credits: SP (not great, but a significant improvement on DN)
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: DN
Henchman: SP (as much fun as Dent is, Hinx is great)
Overall Plot: DN
Dialogue: DN
Score: SP
Settings: SP
Action: SP
Humor: DN
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: DN
Suspense: DN (SP is perhaps the least suspenseful movie in the canon)
Minor Characters: DN (but it's close, thanks to Mr. White)
Glamour: SP
Bond Performance: DN
10-8 for Dr. No! A lot closer than you might suspect, given their spots on my rankings (7 and 16), but SP benefits from the rough edges in DN that I'm able to forgive.
Title Track: DN - come'on, it's the Bond theme.
Title Credits: SP - DN may have been the first, but Binder didn't hit his stride until he came back with TB.
Main Villain: DN - it's hard to choose over Blofeld returning - but i think the good Doctor still cuts a masterful villain.
Main Bond Girl: DN - Honey.. all day and all night please
Henchman: SP - I'll give Dent, Toro and the 3 Blind Mice their credit.. but i enjoyed Hinx's time more.
Overall Plot: SP - sorry, but i never got the overall threat over rocket toppling... taking control over the world's intelligence services seems more threatening and scary.
Dialogue: DN - so many more iconic lines come from this.
Score: SP - the score for DN is almost laughably bad.
Settings: SP - i love Jamaica... but i'll take Rome any day (plus the others).
Action: SP - not much goes on in DN to be honest.
Humor: DN - it's tough, because i liked the humor in SP - but i'll give the edge to DN "now run along freelance."
Cinematography: SP - easily.
Benign Bizarre: DN
Suspense: DN - the only real suspense in SP was Bond infiltrating the Spectre meeting - something that is over and done with so fast that i don't believe we ever get a good payoff.
Minor Characters: SP - i like the MI6 crew of Tanner, Moneypenny and Q.. plus the additions of Denbigh, and the return of Mr White also help.
Glamour: SP - outside of the casino bit in the beginning of DN, there isn't too much glamour.. and the scene between Bond and Lucia / then Bond and Swann on the train easily top anything from DN.. just my humble opinion.
SP - 10
DN - 7
PTS: SP Not only because DN didn't have one. SP's is the best of the series so it is hereon guaranteed at least one point.
Title Track: SP Unlike everyone else here, who isn't basing this factually, I recognise truly that DN has three different title tracks. Yes the James Bond theme is godly but you have that weird percussion beat and a calypso tune. Doesn't work mashing them together. And I can appreciate Smith's song now. SP wins.
Title Credits: SP Ehhh DN's start out good with the dots. But then the holographic dancers and the three blind mice kick in. Not too good. Though I'm not a fan of SP's but it scrapes past here.
Main Villain: DN Dr. No utilised brilliantly in Dr. No. Meanwhile, Spectre wasted in Spectre.
Main Bond Girl: Absolutely not! I suppose then we discount other prominent yet not primary Bond girls as 'minor characters'? No, no, no, Dr. No to that.
Bond Girls: DN DN wins because it has Sylvia, Miss Taro and of course Honey. Madeleine and the widow are good but cannot compete.
Henchman: DN I actually prefer Dent. Dent was introduced in the first film but he is still unique as a henchman. Hinx was introduced in the latest film and he is completely derivative.
Overall Plot: DN DN is coherent and grows in its nature of suspense. SP does not and its plot is awful.
Dialogue: DN Most of the dialogue in SP wasn't up to scratch. DN gives us the classics.
Score: SP Nothing from DN is too memorable.
Settings: SP Because they are quite lavish.
Action: SP Because DN had none.
Humor: DN SP's was entirely off the bat. It will be very, very, very difficult for SP to win here.
Cinematography: SP There is no contest...
Espionage: DN Way more spy stuff going on.
Suspense: DN Is SP even remotely suspenseful?
Minor Characters: DN SP had C. C? Really?
Glamour: SP
SP 8-9 DN
EDIT: Not entirely sure if this is allowed but I am replacing 'benign bizarre' with 'espionage' because the general bizarre factor isn't something I necessarily look for in Bond films. Espionage is way more important.
If we're all allowed to just substitute categories for other categories, willy-nilly, then there's no point in even doing this game. There has to be a common standard across all films and for all voters.
Agreed. I believe the Bond performance category should stand but I feel 'title track' and 'score' should be consolidated into one category. Or have title track count as part of title sequence but I think having three separate categories for this is disproportionate.
Someone votes for WOTW, the SP title sequence and the score and SP picks up 3 points but there's only 1 point up for grabs for the plot which is all over the place but which has more impact on the overall quality of the film?
Title Credits: SP
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: DN (I love Honey)
Henchman: SP
Overall Plot: SP
Dialogue: DN
Score: SP
Settings: DN (Jamaica!)
Action: SP
Humor: DN
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: DN
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: DN
Glamour: DN
Bond: DN
DN: 10
SP: 7
PTS: SP (by default, and yes it should be counted)
Title Track: DN (no-brainer)
Title Credits: DN (totally iconic)
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: DN (how can anybody not choose THE Bond girl 8-| )
Henchman: SP
Overall Plot: SP
Dialogue: DN
Score: SP
Settings: SP
Action: SP
Humor: DN
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: DN
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: DN
Glamour: DN
Bond performance: DN
DN: 10
SP: 8
It's your life! But if you wanted to start again after OHMSS or so, you'd get all fresh matchups.
@TheWizardOfIce, I suppose that's a fair point, but they are separate categories, all of them, and this isn't meant to serve as the be all, end all of your Bond preferences. If a film comes out ahead based on this but is behind in your overall rankings, that's okay.
Also, people, use the categories that are set up. Come on, now.
Title Track: DN
Title Credits: SP
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: SP
Overall Plot: SP
Dialogue: DN
Score: SP
Settings: DN
Action: SP
Humor: SP
Cinematography: DN
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: SP
Glamour:DN
Spectre: 11
Dr. No: 6
Hear, hear. If you don't like the categories, start your own game with your own rubrics.
Title Credits: SP (Even at his worst, Kleinman manages to churn out some stunning, rather tentacular imagery)
Main Villain: DN (Again, simply no contest)
Main Bond Girl: SP (No knocking Honey, but Seydoux’s performance is much stronger, if only just for that scene in the L’Americain)
Henchman: SP (Dent was a fine prototype, but Hinx brought the brawn in a big way)
Overall Plot: DN (@TheWizardOfIce put it better than I could; for all its simplicity, Dr. No’s plot works and engages remarkably well whereas Spectre’s falls to pieces on every possible level)
Dialogue: DN (Dr. No’s dialogue and Honey’s black widow speech being the highlights among an economical and tightly-written script)
Score: SP (Sheesh, neither really, but Monty’s score is such a clunker I guess I’ll take Skyfall’s b-sides)
Settings: DN (We really got to see and feel Jamaica, whereas the many various locales in Spectre felt rather underused and for the most part too briefly visited)
Action: SP (The blistering PTS and the fight with Hinx being the highlights that trump any of the action sequences in the far more low-key Dr. No)
Humor: SP (Simply one of the funniest Bond films to date, particularly during the first half)
Cinematography: SP (Photographed beautifully apart from the highly questionable color filters)
Benign Bizarre: DN (Death by tarantula, dragon on wheels, “blind” henchmen, metal hands, and a mysterious island where the locals all die absolutely trump an admittedly cool torture scene, barely-there metal thumbnails, and not wearing socks)
Suspense: DN (A tremendous amount of suspense is built up throughout the film concerning the reveal of Dr. No)
Minor Characters: DN (A great ally in Quarrel, one of the better Felix Leiters, and two saucy minxes in the photographer and Miss Taro vs. Mr. White and Monica Bellucci's cameo)
Glamour: DN (Really wasn’t much in the way of glamour in either film, but the decadence of Dr. No’s lair, as well as that of his hospitality toward Bond and Honey, trumps whatever glamour there may have been in Spectre)
Bond Performance: SP (Quite possibly Craig’s finest performance as Bond yet; this category may very well clean up in my overall rankings)
DN: 9
SP: 8
Fine. If I change back both categories (Bond girls to Main Bond girls and Espionage to Benign Bizarre) DN still wins both times.
SP 8 - 9 DN
Why are some people having a "Bond" category.
Is it so difficult to follow the rules set up in the original post.
8-|
That appears to have been an oversight. You'll notice both the OP and the starter of the original thread have included "Bond" or "Bond Performance" in their contributions. But you're right it should probably be modified in the rules to make that clear to newcomers.
Pinging @Soundofthesinners.
This is certainly true. Any final entries before we move on to FRWL?
Can't wait to do FRWL, which of course will crush SP :))
Title Track: Dr No
Title Credits: Spectre
Main Villain: Dr No
Main Bond Girl: Dr No
Henchman: Spectre
Overall Plot: Dr No
Dialogue: Dr No
Score: Spectre
Settings: Spectre
Action: Spectre
Humor: Dr No
Cinematography: Dr No
Benign Bizarre: Spectre
Suspense: Dr No
Minor Characters: Dr No
Glamour: Dr No
BOND PERFORMANCE: Sean Connery
Title Track: DN
Title Credits: DN
Main Villain: DN
Main Bond Girl: DN
Henchman: DN
Overall Plot: DN
Dialogue: DN
Score: DN
Settings: DN
Action: DN
Humor: DN
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: DN
Suspense: DN
Minor Characters: DN
Glamour: DN
BOND PERFORMANCE: DN
DN: 16
SP: 2