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PTS: SP
Title track: TMWTGG
Titles: SP
Main villain: TMWTGG
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: TMWTGG
Plot: TMWTGG
Dialogue: TMWTGG
Score: TMWTGG
Settings: SP
Action: SP
Humour: TMWTGG
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: TMWTGG
Suspense: tie
Minor Characters: tie
Glamour: SP
Bond performance: tie
8 - 7 - 3 in favor of TMWTGG, which I think just goes to show that when you break things up by the elements it doesn't always shake out the way you rank the films (I think Spectre is the better movie).
Title track: SP (wow, SP takes this one)
Titles: SP
Main villain: TMWTGG (please)
Main Bond Girl: SP (Ah, those eyes...)
Henchman: SP
Plot: SP
Dialogue: TMWTGG (Both of the dialogue scenes between Moore and Lee are superb)
Score: TMWTGG (Even Barry's worst triumphs over SP)
Settings: TMWTGG (Close though)
Action: SP
Humour: SP (Pepper loses this one by default)
Cinematography: TMWTGG
Benign Bizarre: TMWTGG
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: SP
Glamour: SP
Bond performance: SP
TMWTGG usually ranks near the bottom of my standing, whilst SP is around about the middle. Let's see what the results are -
SP – 12
TMWTGG - 6
A comfortable win for SP this time around.
Title track: TMWTGG
Titles: TMWTGG
Main villain: TMWTGG
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: SP
Plot: SP
Dialogue: TMWTGG
Score: TMWTGG
Settings: TMWTGG
Action: SP
Humour: SP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: SP
Glamour: SP
Bond performance: SP
SP - 12
TMWTGG -6
Exactly, she is very likeable and sexy. Love her.
Title track: TMWTGG - Tight but I'm a sucker for the opening Barry riff.
Titles: SP - The start of Binder's decline. Utter mediocrity. Even naked Dan and the octopus beat this.
Main villain: TMWTGG - I can't see even the most die hard Franz fans giving him the nod over Christopher Lee.
Main Bond Girl: SP - Yes Britt is sexy enough in a bikini. But I tend to prefer a Bond girl who isn't so gormless she gets locked in boots or nearly incinerates Bond by bumping into things with her, admittedly fine, arse. Terrible.
Henchman: SP - Nick Nack is entree raining and creepy but the final fight is like something from a pantomime. Yes Hinx does absolutely bugger all of substance but his opening scene and the fight see him cruise this.
Plot: Tie - I would say TMWTGG shades brother/mano a mano confrontations and SP shades the Nine Eyes/Solex subplot but neither up to much to be honest.
Dialogue: TMWTGG - Close but just for the Lazar exchange and Scaramanga at the Muay Thai.
Score: TMWTGG - Like pizza and sex, mediocre Barry is still Barry. And when up against Newman it could be shit Barry and still win without breaking sweat. If John is Usain Bolt, Tom is a 97 year old with no legs.
Settings: SP - James Bond island not withstanding, I always prefer Europe for my Bond. Rome and the Alps do the job. Plus I feel Hong Kong and Macau are very underused. What do we see apart from the Peninsula hotel forecourt (presume Cubby negotiated rooms for the cast and crew if he gave them this plug) and a Sony shop? Why not some sort of action sequence on the funicular to Victoria Peak?
Action: SP - Not a fan of SP's action but the fight with Hinx edges it. TMWTGG has a very average boat chase followed by a very average car chase punctuated by a moment of genius. But the drag factor of JW and the slide whistle sees SP home.
Humour: SP - Got to give it SP just because TMWTGG is downright embarassing in places. At least SP doesn't have people being pushed into canals by elephants or dwarves being shut in suitcases.
Cinematography: SP - No contest. Some of the most exotic locations in a Bond film ever and TMTWGG's cinematography makes it look like they were filmed in Margate.
Benign Bizarre: TMWTGG - Peanut toting dwarves, third nipples, fun houses, King Fu schools. What's not to like here?
Suspense: Tie - Not a lot in either. The solex finale has to be the dullest climax to a Bond film ever. Bond retrieves it but in TSWLM is the UK now a global superpower given they have this solar tech and presumably have hundreds of solex power stations churning out free energy? It couldn't have been more pointless if they had actually called it the Macguffin.
Minor Characters: SP - Hip has to be the most useless ally ever (Goodnigt, Hip, Silva - MI6 recruitment in that part of the world is awful). Lazar is decent but apart from him? Saida, Hai Fat? All pretty pointless and badly acted. Mr White beats the lot on his own.
Glamour: SP - For all its exotic locales when the height of luxury is Bond getting his hands on a bottle of Phuyuck you know you're in trouble.
Bond performance: SP - Not a fan of Rog trying to play the hard man. It's noticeable that when he started playing to his strengths is when his tenure took off.
SP - 11
TMWTGG - 5
Tie - 2
Sounds like a particularly horrendous porn flick...
Same for The Man With The Golden Gun with this discription...
Indeed, a worrying thought.
PTS: SP
Title track: SP
Titles: TMWTGG
Main villain: TMWTGG
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: SP
Plot: SP
Dialogue: SP
Score: TMWTGG
Settings: TMWTGG
Action: SP
Humour: SP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: SP
Glamour: SP
Bond performance: SP
SP - 14
TMWTGG - 4
Blimey,that was a massacre....
It's not all bad for SP, though, as it squeaked out the number of overall games by 12-11-1. If ever there was one that tempted me to call a draw, it's this round.
But we can't dwell on that just now, as it's time for SP to face one of its toughest challenges yet in the form of The Spy Who Loved Me.
PTS: TSWLM (SP's is very good, but TSWLM is elite)
Title track: TSWLM (come on, now)
Titles: TSWLM
Main villain: TSWLM (Stromberg is generic, but I'll take generic over maddening)
Main Bond Girl: TSWLM (XXX is overrated, but the concept for her character is good enough (and Barbara Bach is hot enough) to carry her through)
Henchman: TSWLM (again, SP is very good, but TSWLM is elite)
Plot: TSWLM (pure, classic Bond)
Dialogue: TSWLM (so many classic lines)
Score: SP
Settings: TSWLM (the Alps, Egypt, Atlantis...)
Action: TSWLM (the ski jump, the Lotus chase, the Liparus battle, and the fights?)
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: Tie
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM (Jaws has metal teeth)
Suspense: TSWLM
Minor Characters: TSWLM (I'm not just going to stiff Gogol's first appearance)
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: TSWLM (everything Rog could be and more)
16-1-1 in favor of TSWLM, a really terrible matchup for SP, even though I have TSWLM in the lower end of my top tier. Let's see if SP fares any better on your scorecards, shall we?
PTS: SP
Title track: TSWLM
Titles: TSWLM
Main villain: SP
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: SP
Plot: TSWLM
Dialogue: TSWLM
Score: SP
Settings: TSWLM
Action: TSWLM
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM
Suspense: TSWLM
Minor Characters: TSWLM
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: TSWLM
12-6 in favor of TSWLM
I was given a double post.
I'd like to provide my perspective on this rather succinctly.
TSWLM - 18
SP - 0
There. That was easy.
Title track: TSWLM
Titles: TSWLM
Main villain: TSWLM
Main Bond Girl: TSWLM
Henchman: TSWLM (Hinx is great, but Jaws is so iconic.)
Plot: TSWLM
Dialogue: TSWLM
Score: TSWLM
Settings: TSWLM
Action: TSWLM
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: TSWLM
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: TSWLM
Minor Characters: TSWLM
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: TSWLM
TSWLM wins, 17-1. Close one.
Title track: TSWLM
Titles: TSWLM (Probably the best of Binder’s)
Main villain: TSWLM
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: SP (close one this)
Plot: TSWLM
Dialogue: TSWLM (“So does England!” wins every time)
Score: TSWLM
Settings: TSWLM
Action: TSWLM
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: TSWLM
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM
Suspense: TSWLM
Minor Characters: SP (again, close but Mr. White)
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: tie (yes, I wussed out of this one)
Spy - 14
SP - 3
Tie - 1
Cheer up Spectre, you lost to one of the classics.
PTS: TSWLM
Title track: TSWLM
Titles: TSWLM
Main villain: TSWLM
Main Bond Girl: TSWLM
Henchman: TSWLM
Plot: TSWLM
Dialogue: TSWLM
Score: TSWLM
Settings: TSWLM
Action: TSWLM
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: TSWLM
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM
Suspense: TSWLM
Minor Characters: TSWLM
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: TSWLM
Lol
Title track: TSWLM
Titles: TSWLM
Main villain: TSWLM
Main Bond Girl: TSWLM
Henchman: TSWLM
Plot: TSWLM
Dialogue: TSWLM
Score: TSWLM
Settings: TSWLM
Action: TSWLM
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: TSWLM
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM
Suspense: TSWLM
Minor Characters: TSWLM
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: TSWLM
TSWLM wins 18-0
PTS: TSWLM - Come on this is a stroll. 'So does England' followed by possibly the best stunt of the series topped off by a bombastic union jack. Stirring stuff.
Title track: TSWLM - Classic v average.
Titles: SP - TSWLM is pretty average frankly and the, by now, legendary naked Dan and the octopus aside Kleinman delivers a solid if not stunning title sequence.
Main villain: SP - Stromberg is pretty generic and rather dull. I think Christoph on autopilot just about does enough in the SPECTRE briefing scene and crater and torture scenes to scrape it.
Main Bond Girl: SP - Anya should be a really interesting Bond girl given the inherent conflicts of her being Russian and Bond having killed her lover but the script and Bach take it nowhere. And Lea does it for me in spades.
Henchman: TSWLM - Got to give it Jaws as despite the Hinx fight being better than any of the confrontations Bond has with Jaws it cant be argued that hes iconic and he actually does some henching by killing Fekkesh and Kalba and attacking Bond numerous times rather than just glaring out of a car window for most of his screen time.
Plot: TSWLM - A solid enough plot with an interesting subplot of Bond killing Sergei even if the script goes nowhere with it. Nonetheless it beats SP's haphazard efforts.
Dialogue: Tie - Neither wows me frankly.
Score: TSWLM - Bond 77 is a cracking track (in the PTS that is. The album version loses the plot somewhat) and Hamlisch blends the Bond theme and TSWLM into the soundtrack pretty well. And of course SP's soundtrack is a joke.
Settings: TSWLM - Giving it to TSWLM on the basis of the Liparus set as I prefer the locations in SP and think TSWLM criminally under uses the pyramids.
Action: TSWLM - PTS and Lotus chase do the buisness effectively here despite the Hinx fight's best efforts.
Humour: TSWLM - Who can argue with the aforementioned 'So does England', 'What a helpful chap' and 'Keeping the British end up'?
Cinematography: Tie - SP seems slightly better but thats possibly because it looks clearer on bluray but TSWLM has some lovely work too.
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM - Shark tanks, a man with metal teeth, submarine car and a tanker that swallows submarines. Lovely stuff.
Suspense: TSWLM - The warhead defusing, final battle and countdown sufficient to win here.
Minor Characters: SP - A host of fleeting characters none of whom make a big impact - Sheikh Hossein, Fekkesh, Kalba and Naomi. Mr White is far above any of them and Lucia and Denbeigh reasonable support.
Glamour: SP - I do like the opulence of the Rome scenes followed by the clinical beauty of the clinic. And the train scenes hark back to FRWL somewhat.
Bond performance: TSWLM - Rog's peak was still to come for me but he is still on superb form here (any other Bond throws the fish out of the window and it would be awful but when Rog does it its class). I would probably say Dan just beats him in his first 3 films but lets his performance slip just a notch in SP and you cant do that with a pro like Rog around.
SP - 5
TSWLM - 11
Tie - 2
Comfortable win for a classic slice of Rog at his effortless best.
Title track: TSWLM
Titles: TSWLM
Main villain: TSWLM
Main Bond Girl: TSWLM
Henchman: TSWLM
Plot: TSWLM
Dialogue: TSWLM
Score: TSWLM
Settings: TSWLM
Action: TSWLM
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: TSWLM
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM
Suspense: TSWLM
Minor Characters: TSWLM
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: TSWLM
TSWLM-18
SP-0
Well, that was pretty easy.
Title track: Spy (A cakewalk for Spy. I don't rate this tune in the very top echelon of Bond themes, but it's pretty dam' close.)
Titles: SP (Binder was very much hit-and-miss, and these titles are the latter. The horrifying titles of SP get points for inventiveness and visceral impact.)
Main villain: Spy (Stromberg may be the single most underrated Bond villain. He fairly radiates evil, and lives up to the aura with his shark and helicopter executions.)
Main Bond Girl: SP (Babs Bach is right down there in the cesspit with Richards and Berry, while Seydoux continues in the line of superb Bond girls during DC's tenure.)
Henchman: SP (I've never been as taken with Jaws as most. A bit too cartoonish for my taste. Hinx, OTOH, is the genuine article.)
Plot: Spy (But just only. The twist of MI6 and the KGB working together nudges SP's plot aside.)
Dialogue: Spy (Again, just barely. Stromberg has some very good lines.)
Score: Spy (Hamlisch's score is classical if not classic, while Newman's is...I'm trying to think of a nicer word than loathsome.)
Settings: SP (A true strong suit for SP.)
Action: Spy (The battle on the Liparus does the trick here. Classic late 70s action.)
Humour: SP (I struggle to think of anything really funny in Spy.)
Cinematography: SP (The shot of Bond on the wetbike riding toward Atlantis is stupendous, but SP's PTS work, Rome shots and North African lensing pushes it past Spy.)
Benign Bizarre: SP (Atlantis is a marvelous instant of the Benign Bizarre, but SP has this element running through its entire length.)
Suspense: Spy (A strength for Spy.)
Minor Characters: SP (A close one, but I do like Mr. White and Denbigh a great deal.)
Glamour: SP (There is some glamor in Sardinia and Egypt, but again, Rome and North Africa clinch it for SP.)
Bond performance: SP (Rog is perfectly fine here, but I like DC in cocky mode.)
SP: 11
Spy: 7
Title track: TSWLM
Titles: TSWLM
Main villain: TSWLM
Main Bond Girl: TSWLM
Henchman: TSWLM
Plot: TSWLM
Dialogue: TSWLM
Score: TSWLM
Settings: TSWLM
Action: TSWLM
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: TSWLM
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM
Suspense: TSWLM
Minor Characters: TSWLM
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: TSWLM
Ehh, 18-0 to TSWLM
PTS: TSWLM
Title track: TSWLM
Titles: SP
Main villain: SP
Main Bond Girl: SP
Henchman: TSWLM
Plot: TSWLM
Dialogue: SP (my God, TSWLM best dialogue??)
Score: SP
Settings: TSWLM
Action: TSWLM
Humour: SP
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: SP
Minor Characters: TSWLM
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: SP
Ehh,
10 --> SP
08 --> TSWLM[/quote]
I suspected that once the dust had settled, the evaluation of SP would decline.
Title track: TSWLM
Titles: SP
Main villain: SP
Main Bond Girl: TSWLM
Henchman: TSWLM
Plot: TSWLM
Dialogue: TSWLM
Score: TSWLM
Settings: TSWLM
Action: TSWLM
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: SP
Suspense: TSWLM
Minor Characters: TSWLM
Glamour: TSWLM
Bond performance: SP
TSWLM 13-5 SP
Title track: TSWLM (nobody does it better)
Titles: TSWLM (the height of silhouetted dancing girls in bond films)
Main villain: SP (I'm not a big fan of Blofeld in SP. Cast well, written poorly - in the final third especially. However - I love the spectre meeting and when he looks up at bond. Stomberg is bland and ironically a straight replace for classic Blofeld. His death is terrible and few memorable lines - expect for 'I've been expecting you'
Main Bond Girl: SP - I have major issues with how swan is used in spectre but she wins because I think Barbara Bach is wooden and her character starts off strongly but really goes missing in the second half.
Henchman: TSWLM - I love Hinx but it's jaws - the good version of jaws too (not MR's bastardisation)
Plot: TSWLM - this is a retread of YOLT but still somehow not as annoying as spectre's second half.
Dialogue: SP - I think TSWLM is actually lacking in this area. Spectre has some great moments
Score: TSWLM - not the biggest fan of hamlisch's work but bond 77 is a cracker. I'm not a fan of Newman's bond work - except the day of the dead stuff. So closer for spectre than if this was Barry.
Settings: SP - I really like spectre's globe trotting. If only they didn't come back to London for the finale. Second finale in a row in Britain.
Action: SP - spectres ace up the sleeve. But I really like the lotus chase in TSWLM
Humour: TSWLM - one thing I really liked about spectre was its humour but this is Moore at his finest.
Cinematography: SP - beautifully shot.
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM - jaws, the pyramid sequence, stromberg dropping his assistant into the shark tank.
Suspense: TSWLM - I think both these films lack a little in suspense.
Minor Characters: SP - Mr White is the ace up the sleeve. His scene is one of my favourite scenes in spectre. TSWLM doesn't have a lot of strong minor characters (if you don't count Jaws)
Glamour: SP - this looks a million bucks. The glamour of the train sequence (pre Hinx demolishing it!)
Bond performance: TSWLM - I'm a fan of Craig's spectre performance but I think Roger knocks this one out of the park. Probably my favourite roger performance. Although not my favourite roger film.
TSWLM - 10
SP - 8
This feels about right, Spectre is middle to lower bond and Spy is middle to higher bond for me.
Spy gets over praised but it has a scope - especially on the heels of what I feel is often a lazy and cheap film like TMWTGG. Roger is awesome in spy. But spy feels like a lot of disparate elements pulled together. Many work and some don't. The absence of score in some tense or action sequences irritates me too. Spectre's third act hobbles things like plot and suspense badly for me. But I'd put on TSWLM much quicker to watch than Spectre. Spy is a fun time.
Some of these could be ties - but I refuse to do those. Bond girl, PTS and even humour (one part of Spectre that I really liked)
Title track: TSWLM (I don't like both but TSWLM is a bit better)
Titles: TSWLM (don't like SP Titles)
Main villain: TSWLM (Stromberg is bland but I really dislike Blofeld in SP, they ruined him with that script)
Main Bond Girl: tie (XXX is a much more interesting character but the acting is better in SP)
Henchman: TSWLM (Jaws is an iconic Bond character, Hinx has no personality, does not succeed in anything and just dies / disappears at some point in time in the second act)
Plot: tie (I am not a fan of both plots)
Dialogue: SP
Score: Tie (Both are rather bad)
Settings: TSWLM (no question, the undewater lair is just great and also unique)
Action: TSWLM (PTS and the Lotus scene are iconic, SP action is boring)
Humour: TSWLM
Cinematography: SP
Benign Bizarre: TSWLM (Jaws, the underwater lair and the Lotus submarine are really bizarre)
Suspense: TSWLM (mainly because of Jaws in the first part of the film)
Minor Characters: SP (TSWLM does not have any good minor characters I think)
Glamour: Tie
Bond performance: TSWLM (certainly Moore's best performance, he is the better comedic Bond)
TSWLM: 11
SP: 3
Tie: 4
@Gustav will have a fit if it does.