Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

1303133353643

Comments

  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited December 2016 Posts: 2,252
    @w2Bond, in what way does the SP helicopter look fake?

    @Thunderfinger Not the helicopter itself but the entire fight with Sciarra (which afaik was done for real). Looks as fake as some of the action in Rogue nation - Like the weird video game effects in the car chase

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I thought the CGI was perfection in SP. Unlike 2002.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    It's certainly improved.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    PTS: SP
    Title track: SP
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: TND
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: TND
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: TND
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP :15
    TND :4
  • I was oblivious to the CGI in the SP helicopter fight. Then it was pointed out, and I can't unsee it. Very annoying.
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    I was oblivious to the CGI in the SP helicopter fight. Then it was pointed out, and I can't unsee it. Very annoying.
    That and the CGI from the plane chase in austria.

  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    edited December 2016 Posts: 3,369
    Just watched TND and it was my most favorable viewing in quite a few years, so this could be interesting.

    PTS: SP - TND just lacks here. It is standard fanfare, but does not resonate like OP and other similar PTS's do.
    Title track: SP - I only dislike one theme but Crow's TND is near the bottom.
    Titles: TND - I like the media/technology themes of TND.
    Main villain: TND - One word... delicious. Carver chews up every scene he is in, in true Bond villain fashion.
    Main Bond Girl: TND - Wai Lin is one of the serious most underrated bond girls.
    Henchman: SP - Hinx is just ahead of Stamper. If you ask me to include Kaufman then it goes to TND, but I am putting him as minor characters.
    Plot: TND - Love the larger than life media mogul angle that is really the last super over the top plot we've had in the series (apart from DAD which verges on insanity)
    Dialogue: TND - Feirstein does a fine job here fitting the tone of the film.
    Score: TND - One of Arnold's best dominates Newman's rehash.
    Settings: SP - This is where the Brosnan era starts to feel more studio bound. Certain locations work well and I do like Carver's HQ sets, but natural location goes to SP.
    Action: SP
    Humour: TND - Feirstein exceeds here, though SP is close.
    Cinematography: SP - HVH continues to handle the 80s and 90s Bonds
    Benign Bizarre: TND - Mostly driven by Carver
    Suspense: SP - Not much tension in TND
    Minor Characters: TND - Kaufman alone wins this.
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP - Craig edges Brosnan, both putting in comfortable but unspectacular performances.

    SP: 9
    TND: 9

    A Tie! SP is slightly ahead in my most recent ranking. But I have not reranked since my new outlook on TND.
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    Posts: 541
    pre-title (sp) -- tnd's was elaborate but generic. sp's wasn't as good as i expected it would be, but at least its original.

    title track (sp) -- writing on the wall is one of my favorite bond songs ever. i love the mood and instruments of tnd's song but the singing could be improved upon.

    villain (sp) -- both were pathetic villains, but waltz had a better performance.

    henchman (sp) -- stamper was too much of a redgrant clone. hinx was inspired by classic bond villains but had his own personal character.

    plot (tnd) --- tnd's plot was paper thin, but spectre's was just ridiculous and ruined the craig canon.

    male lead (tie) -- this is craig's weakest performance and it was still good. brosnan wasn't at his best or worst, but overall did well.

    female lead (sp) -- wai lin kicked ass, but maybe i'm old fashioned in preferring a feminine bond-girl with a good romance.

    settings (tnd) -- i think sp has a lot of locales that looks great, but tnd's carry a theme of sci-fi, tech and sort of a feeling of despair.

    action (tnd) -- tnd was full of great gadgets and fast paced action. sp probably had the best action of recent films, but not as well as tnd's.

    both i give a 6. once my anger of spectre's bad plot subsides, i might put spectre above tnd, because it did have some uniqueness and a bizarreness I really liked.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    PTS: SP - I've never been that impressed with the TND PTS.
    Title track: TND - Crow's tune is generic, but at least the chorus isn't cringeworthy.
    Titles: TND - I've always enjoyed them. Very stylish for the time.
    Main villain: TND - By far. Pryce made the most of his opportunity and Waltz did not.
    Main Bond Girl: SP - Wai Lin just never did it for me.
    Henchman: TND - At least Stamper has something that resembles a personality.
    Plot: TND - Carver doesn't turn out to be Bond's long lost brother, so...
    Dialogue: TND - Close. In the end, TND has more memorable lines.
    Score: TND - Despite being a bit too loud and in your face at times, it's clearly the superior effort.
    Settings: SP - Barely.
    Action: TND - Even though there was too much action in TND, it's of a higher quality than what we got in SP, train fight notwithstanding.
    Humour: TND - I'll give it the win because of the truly funny moments, but there are some terrible puns in there as well.
    Cinematography: SP - Although TND isn't bad.
    Benign Bizarre: TND - Kaufman for the win.
    Suspense: SP - It didn't always succeed, but there were some really tense moments.
    Minor Characters: TND - As is usually the case, Mr. White can't win on his own.
    Glamour: TND - Carver's party.
    Bond performance: TND - Brosnan's best performance. Craig stepped out of his comfort zone and it showed.

    TND - 13
    SP - 5
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    edited December 2016 Posts: 4,116
    Undelete... I don't get voting Hinx over Stamper. Hinx doesn't do anything except follow Bond around and dress nicer than usual. Just not a really written character ...Stamper at least has some character ...sort of.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,217
    Hinx IS an underdeveloped character. Had he been given broader development, as was done with the prototype, Red Grant, he would have been an even more intimidating foe. I would have also had him reappear in the finale', now a mute because of the injuries to his neck, for a second go at Bond.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    Undelete... I don't get voting Hinx over Stamper. Hinx doesn't do anything except follow Bond around and dress nicer than usual. Just not a really written character ...Stamper at least has some character ...sort of.

    And I don t get anyone voting the other way around.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 1,263
    PTS: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Title Track: Spectre
    Title Credits: Spectre
    Main Villain: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Main Bond Girl: Spectre
    Henchman: Spectre
    Plot: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Dialogue: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Score: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Settings: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Action: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Humor: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Cinematography: Spectre
    Benign Bizarre: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Suspense: Spectre
    Minor Characters: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Glamor: Tomorrow Never Dies
    Bond Performance: Tomorrow Never Dies

    Tomorrow Never Dies: 12
    Spectre: 6
  • mcdonbb wrote: »
    Undelete... I don't get voting Hinx over Stamper. Hinx doesn't do anything except follow Bond around and dress nicer than usual. Just not a really written character ...Stamper at least has some character ...sort of.

    Hinx is at least somewhat original, whereas Stamper is just another Red Grant clone. Also, Bond's fights with Hinx are much better than the ones with Stamper.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    True. Hinx still had zero characterisation though.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It was a close one for me. I find both pretty dull, but I ended going with Hinx because he talks a Hell of a lot less, and there for had less opportunity to annoy me.

    That was my reasoning as well.

  • PTS: TND
    Title Track: TND
    Title Credits: TND
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TND
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TND
    Settings: SP
    Action: TND
    Humor: TND
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: TND
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: TND

    TND: 9
    SP: 9

    Wow first draw from me.
  • Anybody got final entries before we take on TWINE?
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    edited December 2016 Posts: 2,252
    SP has a good chance in the next two rounds
  • Folks, it was another round that went down to the wire, and after all the votes were tallied, the score was 235-232-12 in favor of Tomorrow Never Dies! But there's a twist! Spectre won the total number of games by a margin of 12-11-4, leaving us with another split in scores and another draw. I believe that's three, after SP's rounds with YOLT and TMWTGG also ended indecisively. Perhaps we'll come back to those at a later date, but for now we move on to the third Brosnan entry, The World is not Enough! Will it do enough to unseat SP, or will Craig's fourth hold on against another movie that has greatly divided opinions in the Bond fandom? First, let's see what I've got...

    PTS: SP (TWINE's is overrated, although it's certainly memorable)
    Title Track: TWINE (always had a soft spot for this one)
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE (counted as Elektra, not sure if I'd pick Renard)
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP (don't care who you pick, it's still Hinx)
    Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: SP ("I thought Christmas only comes once a year" out-horribles "Cuckoo!"
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: SP (TWINE has decent ideas but it uses its settings in such a pedestrian way)
    Action: SP (see previous)
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: SP (again, TWINE is very pedestrian here)
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE (Renard not feeling pain is something, as is the torture device and all things Zukovsky)
    Suspense: TWINE (for the scenes with Elektra and Bond, painface and all)
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: SP

    An 11-7 win for Spectre! Two Bonds that are pretty close on my ranking, and two that definitely had more potential than they showed. With mine out of the way, let's see your scores!
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,591
    Love them both!

    Let's see...

    PTS: Tie
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: Tie
    Main Villain: Tie
    Main Bond Girl: Tie (I regard Elektra as the main Bond girl as well as the main villain)
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: Tie
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: SP
    Action: TWINE
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: SP

    TWINE: 3
    SP: 10
    Ties: 5

    I was quite surprised by this one.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    PTS: TWINE
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: Tie
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: SP
    Action: TWINE
    Humor: TWINE
    Cinematography: TWINE
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: TWINE

    TWINE: 10
    SP: 7
    Ties: 1
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited January 2017 Posts: 1,263
    Back with comments this time.

    PTS: The World Is Not Enough - I love the Brosnan era PTS because they go all-out to sell the action. While TWINE isn't the best, it is probably the largest scale opening of the franchise. In contrast, SP has large scale production value, but I think it doesn't get its full return in the film. I wanted something more from it.
    Title Track: Spectre - This one is pretty close because I like both songs. They aren't top 10 tracks, but they are both in that next level. Both songs provide a good Bond atmosphere.
    Title Credits: Spectre - Much better imagination and tone from the SP credits. TWINE is pretty ordinary and not all that visually impressive.
    Main Villain: The World Is Not Enough - Elektra is one of my favorite villains. She is multi-dimensional and alluring. Renard and Blofeld are pretty equal in being caricature villains.
    Main Bond Girl: Spectre - Swann is at least organic in the role.
    Henchman: Spectre - Davidoff is played off as a scrub.
    Plot: The World Is Not Enough - The plot of TWINE is well constructed on a basic level, but they went ahead and went over the top on some elements. SP does not have a well constructed plot; it leeches off the plots of previous entries.
    Dialogue: The World Is Not Enough - Neither are polished, but I'm going to give it to TWINE because I can overlook the misgivings. When you see a film in your youth with positive memories, you can have a tendency to ignore elements that may bother you if it was done in a new film.
    Score: The World Is Not Enough - I have a great affinity for the music in TWINE because it fit the era and had a similar sound to the video games that were popular with these releases.
    Settings: Spectre - SP takes this on the strength of locations alone.
    Action: The World Is Not Enough - TWINE has some of my favorite action sets (boat chase, nuclear underground, pipeline, caviar factory).
    Humor: The World Is Not Enough - The humor of TWINE fits the range of characters better than in SP.
    Cinematography: The World Is Not Enough - Both films are visually appealing. Given the energy of the picture, I think what TWINE achieves is slightly more noteworthy.
    Benign Bizarre: The World Is Not Enough - To quote Roger Ebert, 'My favorite moment? A small one, almost a throwaway. The movie answers one question I've had for a long time: How do the bad guys always manage to find all their equipment spontaneously, on remote locations where they could not have planned ahead? After the snow chase sequence, a villain complains morosely that the para-sails were rented, and "were supposed to be returned."'
    Suspense: The World Is Not Enough - TWINE is one of my highest ranked Bonds in terms of re-watchability and I would attribute that partly to this. You know what is going to happen, but the pace it unfolds at is (mostly) well done.
    Minor Characters: The World Is Not Enough - I loved the supporting cast in the Brosnan era. That's not a knock against the MI6 band in the Craig era, but they were used with great respect.
    Glamor: The World Is Not Enough - TWINE is oozing with glamor from the opening bank scene to Baku to the casino. I've ranked SP favorably here in most match-ups, but this is one of those cases where leaning on nostalgia reduces its ceiling.
    Bond Performance: The World Is Not Enough - Brosnan was most comfortable in this outing, resulting in a confident performance. It doesn't showcase his abilities as an actor, but if you embody the character you are projecting (no matter the depth), it is occasionally more convincing than a studied performance. For Craig, he tried to bring out different sides of the character that he didn't assimilate into his well-established characterization of Bond. His performance suffered some from that.

    The World Is Not Enough: 13
    Spectre: 5

    Funny how I have this as a larger margin than TND, but I rank TND ahead of TWINE. To be fair, I probably rate TWINE slightly lower than I would like because of poor elements that hamper the overall product. I suppose that kind of underscores the disappointment of TWINE in squandering potential to be a more acclaimed Bond film.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,136
    PTS: TWINE
    Title Track: TWINE
    Title Credits: TWINE
    Main Villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: SP
    Action: TWINE
    Humor: TWINE
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: TWINE

    TWINE: 11
    SP: 7
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Easy as pie.
    TWINE 0
    SP 18
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    PTS: TWINE
    Title track: TWINE
    Titles: TWINE
    Main villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP : 11
    TWINE: 7

    I believe this is SP's first win.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,138
    Spectre vs The World Is Not Enough

    PTS: SP
    Title track: SP
    Titles: SP
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP : 16
    TWINE: 2

    A massive win for Spectre.



  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Spectre vs The World Is Not Enough

    PTS: TWINE
    Title track: TWINE
    Titles: TWINE
    Main villain: TWINE
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: TWINE
    Plot: TWINE
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: TWINE
    Action: TWINE
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: TWINE
    Suspense: TWINE
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: TWINE
    Bond performance: TWINE

    SP : 5
    TWINE: 13

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SP
    Title Credits: SP
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: TWINE
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamor: SP
    Bond Performance: SP

    TWINE: 2
    SP: 16

  • Posts: 4,044
    PTS: SP
    Title track: TWINE
    Titles: TWINE
    Main villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: TWINE
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SP
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond performance: SP

    SP : 15
    TWINE: 3
Sign In or Register to comment.