Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

13739414243

Comments

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    PTS: CR
    Title Track: SP
    Title Credits: CR
    Main Villain: CR
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: CR
    Overall Plot: CR
    Dialogue: CR
    Score: CR
    Settings: CR
    Action: CR
    Humour: CR
    Cinematography: CR
    Benign Bizarre: CR
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters: CR
    Glamour: CR
    Bond Performance: CR

    CR 17-1 SP
  • Posts: 676
    PTS: CR
    Title Track: CR
    Title Credits: CR (this was close)
    Main Villain: CR
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: CR (Mollaka alone is better than Hinx, IMO)
    Overall Plot: CR
    Dialogue: CR
    Score: CR
    Settings: CR
    Action: CR
    Humour: CR
    Cinematography: CR
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters: CR
    Glamour: CR
    Bond Performance: CR

    CR - 17
    SP - 1
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Title Track: SP
    Shocking. Positively shocking!
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Ha ha. I actually like 'You Know my Name' when it's slowed down and incorporated as a melody into the film. But the actual theme tune is too 'rock' with regards to being right for Bond. As such I prefer the more classic 'Writings on the Wall'. The intro is very Bondian.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    suavejmf wrote: »
    But the actual theme tune is too 'rock' with regards to being right for Bond.
    I can appreciate this perspective. I like it but it's on the edgier side. Some probably feel the same way about AVTAK.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    As such I prefer the more classic 'Writings on the Wall'. The intro is very Bondian.
    I can definitely agree on the intro. It perhaps should have been an instrumental.
  • Posts: 4,617
    With all the arguments we see within these threads, it's nice to see something that we can all agree on :-)
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 1,263
    PTS: Casino Royale - Yes, considerably.
    Title Track: Casino Royale - Perhaps my favorite song of all the Bond themes. On top of the wonderful arrangement and booming performance, the lyrics are very appropriate.
    Title Credits: Casino Royale - These are my favorite title credits, with beautiful artistic direction and suitable symbolism throughout. Daniel Craig coming out of the shadows at the end is a perfect crescendo to begin his Bond career.
    Main Villain: Casino Royale - I always thought the critics were wrong who said Craig's Bond hadn't faced a worthy adversary until Silva. Mads has become a prolific villain and his rendition of Le Chiffre is exquisite. One of the most three-dimensional Bond villain of all-time that you feel the struggle with despite him not having an industrial laser or shark pool.
    Main Bond Girl: Casino Royale - Top 3 Bond girl in the franchise. Eva Green is gorgeous and witty and seduces the audience along with Bond.
    Henchman: Casino Royale - I'm going with Casino Royale on this one because the henchman are giving background and we are able to see their movements. It's a much more pervasive depiction than we get in Spectre, where Hinx basically shows up 3 times. I can only imagine how amazing Hinx would be if he got that amount of exposure.
    Plot: Casino Royale - The best since FRWL and GF. Taking history into account and the brilliant modification to the original story, this treatment is so down to Earth it may very well explain some of the events that happen in the background of some of our great tragedies.
    Dialogue: Casino Royale - Bond shows a human side previously untapped (ok, OHMSS). Aside from the more grandiose Bond's like GF and TB, this one is right at the top.
    Score: Casino Royale - David Arnold's most impactful work on Bond to date. He weaves the theme song through the score in a very thoughtful way. For the first time he has the confidence in his work to repeat the same cues and themes throughout the film.
    Settings: Casino Royale - Bond in the Bahamas. Right at home. Montenegro doesn't seem so bad either.
    Action: Casino Royale - Does any film have Casino Royale beat in terms of pulse-pounding action? Maybe Quantum, but I find Casino Royale to fit in with the narrative so much better. Certainly, in terms of large set-piece action scenes, there are better in the franchise. However, neither Casino or Spectre really incorporate that as an element.
    Humor: Casino Royale - The humor in Casino Royale is very real, where the lines fit the personalities of the characters and delivered at the proper moments. Spectre's humor is more deliberate and occasionally comes across as being forced, if not disingenuous at times.
    Cinematography: Casino Royale - Both are shot tremendously well, but the scope of Casino Royale has a greater impact due to natural lighting.
    Benign Bizarre: Casino Royale - Using photoshop as evidence for an arrest? It made a great line anyway! I think your odds are improving, Mr. Bond.
    Suspense: Casino Royale - While experiencing a crescendo two-thirds of the way in, it manages to reset sufficiently enough to build up to the final moment of the film.
    Minor Characters: Casino Royale - Perhaps the most well-rounded and fully realized group of supporting cast members with excellent performances from Dench, Wright, Giannini, Christensen. Most significantly is M, who undergoes a major shift in character and tone from the past to become a more nurturing presence to the young 007.
    Glamor: Casino Royale - Almost the whole of Casino Royale is glamorous, with even the most mundane moments eliciting a sense of grandeur.
    Bond Performance: Casino Royale - One of the most definitive performances up against one of the most generic performances. Craig made believable the coarseness and vulnerabilities of Bond while managing to establish a character that was arrogant and self-assured.

    Casino Royale: 18
    Spectre: 0
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    PTS: CR (Not close)
    Title Track: CR (Rout)
    Title Credits: CR (Blowout)
    Main Villain: CR (Easy...should have been the other way though).
    Main Bond Girl: CR (Vesper beats repeat Vesper)
    Henchman: SP (Hinx, if CR wanted to focus on a henchman, it could have).
    Overall Plot: CR (Hah!)
    Dialogue: CR (This is pointless).
    Score: CR (Moving on.)
    Settings: Draw (Good settings in both movies).
    Action: CR (Almost went SP, forgot about PTS, Hotel fight).
    Humour: SP (Depends on it entirely).
    Cinematography: CR
    Benign Bizarre: CR (Bleeding eye wins this alone...scrotum chair seals it).
    Suspense: CR (Massive win for CR)
    Minor Characters: CR (Another huge CR win)
    Glamour: CR (All glamour vs. virtually none).
    Bond Performance: CR (Craig's best vs. worst)

    CR - 15
    SP - 2
    Draw - 1
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    PTS: CR (Not looking good for SP, this was one of its strengths.)
    Title Track: CR (Words can't even do it justice.)
    Title Credits: CR (Fresh and inventive vs. strange and tired.)
    Main Villain: CR (By leaps and bounds.)
    Main Bond Girl: CR (I actually like Madeleine, but c'mon.)
    Henchman: CR (I happen to enjoy Obanno, thank you very much.)
    Overall Plot: CR (Mmm-hmmm.)
    Dialogue: CR (There are dinner jackets and dinner jackets...)
    Score: CR (Surely you jest.)
    Settings: CR (I'm trying hard to find a win for SP but it's a daunting task.)
    Action: CR (Yes, this one too.)
    Humor: CR (There is humor and Spectre...)
    Cinematography: CR (It's hopeless.)
    Benign Bizarre: CR (The closest category yet. When in doubt, choose Fleming.)
    Suspense: CR (No miraculous recovery here.)
    Minor Characters: CR (Mr. White cancels out Mr. White, which leaves CR's all star cast.)
    Glamour: CR (But of course.)
    Bond Performance: CR (Fresh and inventive vs. strange and tired, rinse and repeat.)

    CR - 18
    SP - 0

    My second goose egg of the series.
  • Posts: 2,107
    Pts: SP
    Title Track: CR
    Title Credits: CR
    Main Villain: CR
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: CR
    Dialogue: CR
    Score: CR
    Settings: CR
    Action: CR
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: CR
    Benign Bizarre: CR
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters: CR
    Glamour: CR
    Bond Performance: SP


  • PTS: SP
    Title Track: CR
    Title Credits: CR
    Main Villain: CR
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: SP (by default)
    Overall Plot: CR
    Dialogue: CR
    Score: CR
    Settings: CR
    Action: CR
    Humour: CR
    Cinematography: CR
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters: CR
    Glamour: CR
    Bond Performance: CR

    CR - 16
    SP - 2
  • RoadphillRoadphill United Kingdom
    Posts: 984
    Well basically Casino Royale in everything except Henchman and maybe PTS.
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    edited February 2017 Posts: 1,263
    I am surprised to see a few votes swinging to Spectre in Bond performance. Is Spectre your favorite depiction of Craig's Bond?

    The only thing that could be considered better is that it's more stylistically light, more in the line of a comic book hero that Bond had come to portray in past eras.

    It's interesting to think of how his progression went as an actor/character. He started off being the most raw and genuinely human portrayal of Bond, and then he became a hardened machine, to the washed up cynic with a sense of sarcasm and irony, and lastly to someone who was content with himself enough to pursue his own ends.

    From a broad picture it's easy to appreciate the evolution of his work. Individually, I think each one plays up to tone of each film. That's where I think the first three work, though, I especially care for the first and third. Spectre is a curious case since I think his performance itself is quite fine, but it doesn't meld with the surroundings of the film. It's a hard one to grade for that purpose since the film tries to be serious and introspective, but also casual and loose. Unfortunately for it, it probably draws the most comparisons from OHMSS. While I am not a fan of George Lazenby's performance (as I've commented in many discussions), it stands in line with the heart of the film throughout.

    Perhaps the most confounding thing is the way his character walked away from her, saved her, and left his post to be with her all in the span of about 20 minutes. If I was handling the narrative, I would have either had him leave her and have him choose his job over her to a kind of melancholy ending (that could be revisited in a sequel should his life be in mortal danger), or a shorter film in which he chooses to be with her and Blofeld is left on the loose (perhaps with a final scene where Blofeld is at a top level Spectre meeting and we catch a glimpse of the scar through the shadows).

    Should that count against Craig's performance? Generally, we tend to leave the script outside of the performance (see: DAD). Since he is listed as a producer, though, I think it should be tagged along since it would have been in his ability to alter it in some way.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,369
    PTS: SP (CR is a nice new take on the PTS, but just average in the terms of action. SP is rising to top 5 here for me)
    Title Track: SP (Very surprised I am doing this, but SP is more Bondian and I've enjoyed it since I first heard it. Didn't think I'd prefer it to YNMN; however, comparing in my mind makes me realize I prefer WOTW)
    Title Credits: CR (Kleinman's best work, a new take on a long standing tradition)
    Main Villain: CR (Le Chiffre easily)
    Main Bond Girl: CR (Vesper easily)
    Henchman: SP (CR has a collection of minor henchmen with little backstory. Only Dimitrios is fleshed out at all, but does not have as much intrigue as Hinx)
    Overall Plot: CR (CR easily)
    Dialogue: CR (Some of the best work by Purvis and Wade, Haggis was on point here as well. One of the best scripts of the series.)
    Score: CR (Easily. Arnold's incorporation of YNMN is fantastic and the score overall is quite memorable)
    Settings: CR (Both with good locales, CR gets more out of them though, with the Bahamas being the standout locale)
    Action: CR (With ease, though SP is not bad)
    Humor: CR (More clever in its humor IMO)
    Cinematography: CR (This is a very close one. I'll go with CR because the action scenes tend to have more widescreen landscape views that add to the spectacle)
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: CR (With relative ease)
    Minor Characters: CR (CR has a lack of Q and MP which puts at a disadvantage, but SP is missing Dench and Leiter. Both have Mr. White, but Mathis and the other poker players give CR the slight advantage)
    Glamour: CR (There are dinner jackets and then there are dinner jackets)
    Bond Performance: CR (Nails it from the onset. Craig is good in SP, but he is more dynamic in CR)

    Score: 14-4

    SP is in the teens for me in my ranking, with CR always landing in my top 3. So not a bad result for SP to steal 4 categories.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    bondjames wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    But the actual theme tune is too 'rock' with regards to being right for Bond.
    I can appreciate this perspective. I like it but it's on the edgier side. Some probably feel the same way about AVTAK.
    suavejmf wrote: »
    As such I prefer the more classic 'Writings on the Wall'. The intro is very Bondian.
    I can definitely agree on the intro. It perhaps should have been an instrumental.

    Fair points.
  • Pts: CR
    Title Track: CR
    Title Credits: CR
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: SP
    Dialogue: CR
    Score: CR
    Settings: CR
    Action: CR
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: CR
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters: CR (thanks to Mr. Mendel alone)
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: CR

    CR wins 12-6
  • Have we any final entries?
  • Posts: 2,165
    Pts: SP
    Title Track: CR
    Title Credits: CR
    Main Villain: CR
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: CR
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: SP
    Settings: SP
    Action: CR
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters: CR
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: CR

    CR:9
    SP: 9

    So a draw between them. CR has the better narrative and some key bond elements, but Spectre draws level with a better score, better dialogue, humour and glamour (not that CR is short in any of these departments either).

    If I had to pick one... go for CR.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited February 2017 Posts: 4,423
    PTS: CR (Concise and brutal)
    Title Track: CR (one of the best. Perfect for this iternation of Bond)
    Title Credits: CR (retro baby!)
    Main Villain: CR
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: SP
    Plot: CR
    Dialogue: CR
    Score: CR (love Arnold's instrumental of the title track)
    Settings: SP
    Action: CR
    Humour: CR (the "Stephanie Broadchest" is a highlight)
    Cinematography: CR
    Benign Bizarre: CR
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters:CR
    Glamour: CR
    Bond Performance:CR

    SP: 2
    CR: 16

    18

    Ouch. But fair.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Stephanie, @royale65.
  • Posts: 4,044
    At least he didn't put Van Cleef and Arpels
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    Stephanie, @royale65.

    I don't know what you mean...

  • edited February 2017 Posts: 19,339
    hang on,i'm late to the party ! :

    Pts: CR
    Title Track: CR
    Title Credits: CR
    Main Villain: CR
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: CR
    Dialogue: CR
    Score: CR
    Settings: CR
    Action: CR
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: CR
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters: CR
    Glamour: CR
    Bond Performance: CR

    CR:15
    SP: 3

  • Pts: SP
    Title Track: SP
    Title Credits: CR
    Main Villain: CR
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: CR
    Dialogue: CR
    Score: CR
    Settings: CR
    Action: CR
    Humor: CR
    Cinematography: CR
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters: CR
    Glamour: CR
    Bond Performance: CR

    Casino Royale 14
    Spectre 4
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    royale65 wrote: »
    Stephanie, @royale65.

    I don't know what you mean...

    Silly me. I could have sworn...I am seeing a doctor!
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,423
    It's quite alright. I'll forgive you. This once...
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    Mallory wrote: »
    Pts: SP
    Title Track: CR
    Title Credits: CR
    Main Villain: CR
    Main Bond Girl: CR
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: CR
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: SP
    Settings: SP
    Action: CR
    Humor: SP
    Cinematography: SP
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: CR
    Minor Characters: CR
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: CR

    CR:9
    SP: 9

    So a draw between them. CR has the better narrative and some key bond elements, but Spectre draws level with a better score, better dialogue, humour and glamour (not that CR is short in any of these departments either).

    If I had to pick one... go for CR.
    Surprised you think Spectre has the better dialogue than Casino Royale. What is the best bit in SPECTRE, in your view?

  • royale65 wrote: »
    Stephanie, @royale65.

    I don't know what you mean...

    Silly me. I could have sworn...I am seeing a doctor!

    Long hours, high stress. Relationships with doctors rarely go well.
  • Well, after over two weeks of competition we have a first, as Spectre was denied a single victory in the games, falling by a margin of 29-0-1! A late tie prevented a clean sweep for Casino Royale, but the victory was dominant enough as it is, taking the final score 503-67-5. The only category SP managed to win with any consistency was "Henchman." It would be hard for SP to fare any worse, but let's see how it does against Craig's sophomore entry, Quantum of Solace!

    PTS: SP
    Title Track: QoS (I think it's a bit underrated, in any event it's better than SP)
    Title Credits: QoS
    Main Villain: QoS
    Main Bond Girl: SP (Camille is good but not quite a proper Bond girl, given that their relationship isn't consummated)
    Henchman: SP (come, now)
    Overall Plot: QoS (overly complicated is better than non-existent)
    Dialogue: SP (thanks to QoS's slapdash script, which features some bizarre twists and turns in conversation)
    Score: QoS
    Settings: SP
    Action: QoS (it's got plenty of it!)
    Humor: SP (it's got plenty of it!)
    Cinematography: SP (shakycam and pretentious nonsense doom QoS)
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: QoS
    Minor Characters: QoS (Felix and Mathis and Fields are tough to beat)
    Glamour: SP (QoS is the least glamorous Bond)
    Bond Performance: QoS (Craig puts the movie on his back)

    Craig's two off-color Bonds fight to a tie! Not entirely surprising given that they're right next two year other, and I went back and forth on a number of these categories. Let's see your scores, shall we?
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730

    PTS: SP it's close because that car chase is incredible but so are those helicopter stunts
    Title Track: SP quite like writings on the wall
    Title Credits: QoS desert looks cool and theirs too many octopi in SPECTRE
    Main Villain: QoS Greene is creepy
    Main Bond Girl: SP Swann isn't good but neither is Camille
    Henchman: SP hinx is the best henchman since golden eye
    Overall Plot: QoS plot is one of the best in the series and is nice and complex
    Dialogue: SP i dont know
    Score: QoS best score too bad theirs not enough bond theme
    Settings: QOS taking bond to Latin America this was a very close one they both had similar locations but I feel quantum utilized them better and not just for one set peice and then you move one but rather for the story
    Action: QoS very action heavy
    Humor: SP no humour in qos Except for that awesome line I don't have any friends
    Cinematography: SP best looking bond film
    Benign Bizarre: SP don't know what this category is
    Suspense: QoS tight action scenes are more gripping
    Minor Characters: QoS medrano
    Glamour: QOS very arty and stylized
    Bond Performance: QoS bond was bored in SPECTRE

    Total
    QOS 10
    Sp 8

    Very close in this ranking but in my personal opinion qos is far better. Better story, action, it's more fun and exciting. SPECTRE doesn't really know what it wants and just mienders and feels like a parody. That train fight is amazing though.
Sign In or Register to comment.