Spectre versus the field: Skyfall

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  • edited March 2017 Posts: 3,336
    PTS: SF
    Title Track: SF
    Title Credits: SF
    Main Villain: SF
    Main Bond Girl: SF
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: SF
    Dialogue: SF
    Score: SF
    Settings: SF
    Action: SF
    Humour: SF
    Cinematography: SF
    Benign Bizarre: SF
    Suspense: SF
    Minor Characters: SF
    Glamour: SF
    Bond Performance: SF

    Skyfall: 17
    Spectre: 1
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    edited March 2017 Posts: 2,722
    PTS: Skyfall (a real highlight of Spectre. But Skyfall wins because of Craig shooting his cuffs and the excellent, dramatic fight on the train that leads into a climatic shooting and that drop into the water. Of all the Bond's I think Craig unquestionably has the consistently highest level of PTS's - all of them are great.)

    Title Track: Skyfall (Adele's theme is powerful, has presence, a wonderful tone and the weaving in of the Bond theme gives me chills.)

    Title Credits: Skyfall (a work of art. Especially married to the title track and the lead in from the PTS )

    Main Villain: Skyfall (Silva is compelling and Bardem great fun in the role. His warped playfulness with Bond is a delight.)

    Main Bond Girl: Spectre (I guess by default. Skyfall doesn't have one - Severine is a minor character for me.)

    Henchman: Spectre (Hinx is great. Patrice is anonymous by comparison)

    Overall Plot: Skyfall (aside from the implausibility of Silva's plan - I think it holds more appeal to me than Spectre - the two biggest problems with Spectre is the handling of Blofeld and his plan.)

    Dialogue: Skyfall - (the word association game is good. I like the introduction scene with Severine and all of Bond and Silva's interaction.)

    Score: Skyfall - (Newman vs Newman - this is a battle I need to reinvestigate to do it justice. But my instinct is Skyfall. Although I do like The Day of Dead music in the PTS of SP).

    Settings: Spectre (I think Skyfall phones this one in a little. But the use of Britain feels much more natural in Skyfall because the thematically the film concerns Britain. Still - I like the globe trotting of Spectre.)

    Action: Skyfall (I think Deakins' shooting style adds a lot to the capturing of the action. I also think it has an urgency which is lost in SP - bar the Hinx fight and PTS.)

    Humour: Spectre (Skyfall doesn't have an awful lot of it other than Silva's twisted humour. I liked SP's humour - and I think Craig is more comfortable delivering the one-liners in SP than SF)

    Cinematography: Skyfall (Deakins - end of.)

    Benign Bizarre: Skyfall (Silva's disfigurement and Mummy issues.)

    Suspense: Skyfall (Ultimately this is where SF has it all over SP. SF's narrative, while at times implausible, has more suspense and more mystery tied into it. Also an unpredictability attached to it with M's fate unsure. The double fake of Dench making her speech lead me to think she was going to get killed in the court room then she survives so I wasn't expecting her to die at the end. This suspense alone works better than anything in SP.)

    Minor Characters: Spectre (I prefer Moneypenny in SF to Moneypenny in SP. Prefer Q in SP to Q in SF. M (Dench/Fiennes in SF to M Fiennes in SP. White in SP to Severine in SF. So it's an up and down pattern - but White wins it for SP. He's a great character and his scene in SP is among my favourites in the film.)

    Glamour: Spectre (I think Spectre has the glamour of Bond down very well.)

    Bond Performance: Spectre (Tough one but I really was quite taken with Bond's performance in Spectre. I liked the cool detachment he was going for. The start of SF with his grizzled, stubble attitude was a little too much of 'more of the same' from QoS. I liked what he was trying to do with SP - just wish the script had joined him in the fun.)

    Skyfall = 11
    Spectre = 7


    Overall: I'm surprised Spectre did as well against Skyfall - but I think it's because of the similarities of director, composer, actor, screenwriters and the forced continuity which is very evident in Spectre that ties it so closely to its predecessor. Skyfall is stronger thematically, it holds the fate of a character we care about in M for its crescendo and most importantly it has a narrative momentum that eludes its follow up. Because of an absence of traditional Bond girl in SF and a seemingly intentional lack of glamour - SP picks up some categories. Skyfall would be Top Twelve films for me - Spectre bottom eight - so it's interesting that they are as close as they are in these rankings.

    This has been a great game and I'd like to second the suggestion that we take SF (or another Bond film) and go category for category against the rest again. What about reversing it and going DN vs the rest?!
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    PTS: Skyfall - An overlooked part of the film that is excellently staged. The tension between Bond and M is uniquely mediated by Moneypenny and provides the necessary flaws in both characters to mark the beginning of their character's mutual understanding and parting at the end of the film.
    Title Track: Skyfall - One of the bets in the franchise and easily a member of my top five title tracks. I'll never forget how excited I was for this Bond when I heard this song on the radio (successive times) prior to seeing the film.
    Title Credits: Skyfall - Hauntingly mesmerizing and in complete rhythm with the title track.
    Main Villain: Skyfall - Silva is one of the greats, much in the line with Alac Trevelyan. What he sacrifices in close ties to Bond, he makes up for in terms of the personal attack he is committing along with the level of engagement he provides Bond.
    Main Bond Girl: Skyfall - M is the main Bond girl cast in an unconventional manner and what a smashing success it was!
    Henchman: Skyfall - Patrice is less imposing as a henchman, but he has a direct impact on Bond. Since it's so seldom, that elevates Patrice into the upper echelon of henchman. Conversely, Hinx is a better prototypical henchman, but actually only manages to make Bond sweat and get his tux dirty.
    Plot: Skyfall - Both are not heavyweights in the plot department, but Skyfall connects the dots so much more fluidly.
    Dialogue: Skyfall - The dialogue of Skyfall is very self-reflective and that awareness creates a much larger impact coupled with delivery that is very suitable to each of the characters.
    Score: Tie - I'm breaking my commitment of not issuing ties. After careful consideration of these two soundtracks, it's nearly impossible to weigh them apart from each other without getting into a logical debate. The original score for Skyfall is very atmospheric and serves the film well on screen. Newman provides a continuation of that in Spectre, where he expands on themes and adds all new ideas that, in a way, elevate it above Skyfall. However, the connection to the emotion of the scene is not as great as it is in Skyfall. This is especially noticeable for M's theme 'Mother' that don't have a counterpart in the Spectre score. Other small quirks about Spectre's soundtrack is how 'Backfire' makes me feel like I am watching the Skyfall opening because it is so much more iconic for that moment.
    Settings: Skyfall - Turkey, Shanghai, London, and Scotland looked terrific. Spectre has the more exotic locations, but filters out their natural brilliance (without this, it would rank very favorably across the entire franchise). When I watch a film, I don't look at a checklist of places to decide how I feel, it's all about how they are captured on film.
    Action: Skyfall - The sense of danger comes across greater in Skyfall. Perhaps that comes from Bond's injury in the opening, which sets up subsequent action scenes as carrying the chance of failure with them.
    Humor: Skyfall - Sarcastic underplayed humor is the best kind of humor for Craig's Bond. The cheeky kind of way he shrugs off life is a wonderful, original take on the early Connery humor that solidified his status being Bond.
    Cinematography: Skyfall - The best of the franchise. If every Bond was this visually stunning, Skyfall would be a little worse by comparison.
    Benign Bizarre: Skyfall - Rats over mice.
    Suspense: Skyfall - They covered the proper late reveal of the villain well and the ending was very poignant.
    Minor Characters: Skyfall - All of the right notes are hit with the supporting cast of Skyfall. Spectre has equally wonderful talent, but their lackluster portrayal, bar Mr. White and Q, hand this category to Skyfall.
    Glamor: Skyfall - This should be the template for modern Bond glamor; a confident blend between classic and trendy.
    Bond Performance: Skyfall - I view this performance as the definitive portrayal of Craig's Bond. He lacked the experience in Casino Royale and was still undeveloped. The canvas is full in Skyfall and what a fantastic picture it paints.

    Skyfall: 17
    Spectre: 0
    Tie: 1
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    We can do SP vs SP next. I bet that it even loses that one.

    It's an interesting idea, although the mechanics are a bit strange to me.
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    We can do SP vs SP next. I bet that it even loses that one.

    It's an interesting idea, although the mechanics are a bit strange to me.

    Spectre (2015) vs. Sausage Party (2016)?
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Birdleson wrote: »
    We can do SP vs SP next. I bet that it even loses that one.

    It's an interesting idea, although the mechanics are a bit strange to me.

    Spectre (2015) vs. Sausage Party (2016)?

    Hahahahhahaha great idea, or minions vs SPECTRE
  • Posts: 6,432
    This should be interesting...

    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SF (I dislike both SF is more tolerable)
    Title Credits: SF
    Main Villain: SP
    Main Bond Girl: SF
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: SP
    Dialogue: SP
    Score: SP (Two similar soundtracks with a couple of highlights on each, SP just wins because of Backfire and Pale King)
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP (Is there any action in SF :p )
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: DRAW
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: DRAW
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: SF

    SKYFALL: 4
    SPECTRE: 12
    DRAW: 2
  • Posts: 4,325
    PTS: SF
    Title Track: SF
    Title Credits: SF
    Main Villain: SF
    Main Bond Girl: SF
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: SF
    Dialogue: SF
    Score: SF
    Settings: SP
    Action: SP
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SF
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SF
    Minor Characters: SF
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: SF

    SF: 13
    SP: 5
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    edited March 2017 Posts: 1,889
    PTS: Skyfall
    Title Track: Skyfall
    Title Credits: Skyfall
    Main Villain: Skyfall
    Main Bond Girl: Skyfall
    Henchman: SPECTRE
    Overall Plot: Skyfall
    Dialogue: Skyfall
    Score: Skyfall
    Settings: SPECTRE
    Action: Skyfall
    Humour: Skyfall
    Cinematography: Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre: SPECTRE
    Suspense: Skyfall
    Minor Characters: Skyfall
    Glamour: Skyfall
    Bond Performance: Skyfall

    Skyfall: 15
    Spectre: 3
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    Spectre (#22) vs. Skyfall (#8)

    PTS: Skyfall
    Title Track: Skyfall
    Title Credits: Skyfall
    Main Villain: Skyfall
    Main Bond Girl: SPECTRE
    Henchman: SPECTRE
    Overall Plot: Skyfall
    Dialogue: Skyfall
    Score: Skyfall
    Settings: Skyfall
    Action: Skyfall
    Humour: SPECTRE
    Cinematography: Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre: Skyfall
    Suspense: Skyfall
    Minor Characters: SPECTRE
    Glamour: SPECTRE
    Bond Performance: Skyfall

    Skyfall: 13
    Spectre: 5
  • Posts: 4,044
    Birdleson wrote: »
    No way. You must be a mathematician

    I've studied mathematics for many years now. Still don't understand it of course.
  • Posts: 4,044
    vzok wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    We can do SP vs SP next. I bet that it even loses that one.

    Of course that would mean it had won

    Perhaps now would be an appropriate time for Alien vs. Predator's tagline:

    "Whoever wins, we lose."

    The England Football Team motto
  • NSGWNSGW London
    edited March 2017 Posts: 299
    PTS: Skyfall
    Title Track: Skyfall
    Title Credits: Skyfall
    Main Villain: Skyfall
    Main Bond Girl: SPECTRE
    Henchman: SPECTRE
    Overall Plot: Skyfall
    Dialogue: Skyfall
    Score: Skyfall
    Settings: SPECTRE
    Action: Skyfall
    Humour: Skyfall
    Cinematography: Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre: SPECTRE
    Suspense: Skyfall
    Minor Characters: Skyfall
    Glamour: SPECTRE
    Bond Performance: Skyfall

    Skyfall: 13
    Spectre: 5
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    I would still like to see SPECTRE versus NEVER SAY NEVER AGAIN, if the OP would like to continue on.
  • WalecsWalecs On Her Majesty's Secret Service
    Posts: 3,157
    Because Octopussy and Never Say Never Again came out the same year and were rivals. :P
  • MansfieldMansfield Where the hell have you been?
    Posts: 1,263
    OP = original poster
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    That's my little original poster...

    latest?cb=20140923153323
  • "Original poster, original poster..."
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    Post Mr Bond, but you'll need a great deal of responses to get out of this...
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,134
    After listening to both scores again, I changed my vote for that part. Which gives Spectre the edge over Skyfall with a narrow 10-8.
  • Posts: 19,339
    PTS: SF
    Title Track: SF
    Title Credits: SF
    Main Villain: SF
    Main Bond Girl: SP
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: SF
    Dialogue: SF
    Score: SF
    Settings: SF
    Action: SF
    Humour: SF
    Cinematography: SF
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SF
    Minor Characters: SF
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: SF

    Skyfall: 14
    Spectre: 4


    A bigger margin than I expected.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    edited March 2017 Posts: 4,007
    PTS: Spectre (Very close call)
    Title Track: Skyfall
    Title Credits: Skyfall (One of the best ever IMO)
    Main Villain: Skyfall
    Main Bond Girl: Spectre (Don't really count Judi Dench...)
    Henchman: Spectre
    Overall Plot: Skyfall
    Dialogue: Skyfall
    Score: Skyfall
    Settings: Skyfall (Does much better with the way it uses the settings)
    Action: Spectre (Close call but the train fight clinches it)
    Humour: Spectre
    Cinematography: Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre: Skyfall
    Suspense: Skyfall
    Minor Characters: Spectre
    Glamour: Spectre
    Bond Performance: Skyfall

    Skyfall - 11
    Spectre - 7
  • Posts: 4,044

    PTS: SP
    Title Track: SF
    Title Credits: SF
    Main Villain: SF
    Main Bond Girl: SF
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: SP
    Dialogue: TIE
    Score: SF
    Settings: SP
    Action: TIE
    Humour: SP
    Cinematography: SF
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SF
    Minor Characters: SP
    Glamour: SP
    Bond Performance: SF

    Skyfall: 8
    Spectre: 8
    Tie: 2
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    PTS: SF
    Title Track: SF
    Title Credits: SF
    Main Villain: SF
    Main Bond Girl: SF
    Henchman: SP
    Overall Plot: SF
    Dialogue: SF
    Score: SF
    Settings: SF
    Action: SF
    Humour: SF
    Cinematography: SF
    Benign Bizarre: SF
    Suspense: SF
    Minor Characters: SF
    Glamour: SF
    Bond Performance: SF

    Skyfall: 17
    Spectre: 1
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited March 2017 Posts: 4,423
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @MayDayDiVicenzo , I don't seem to see you on here much anymore. Are we just going to different threads, or have you been keeping a low profile?

    Yeah, what's happening with that?

    PTS: Skyfall
    Title Track: Skyfall
    Title Credits: Spectre (close this)
    Main Villain: Skyfall
    Main Bond Girl: Spectre (those eyes man!)
    Henchman: Spectre
    Overall Plot: Skyfall (for the subplot of Bond being resurrected)
    Dialogue: Skyfall (a mite more depth than Spectre)
    Score: Spectre (for Madeleine's theme)
    Settings: Spectre (globe hoping baby!)
    Action: Skyfall (both pretty lacking tbh)
    Humour: Spectre
    Cinematography: Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre: Skyfall (guess Komodo Dragon's are bizarre, if not totally benign)
    Suspense: Skyfall
    Minor Characters: Spectre (Mr. White to the rescue. Again)
    Glamour: Spectre
    Bond Performance: TIE

    Skyfall: 9
    Spectre: 8
    Tie: 1

    Close. Very close. Just like my rankings.

  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    @MayDayDiVicenzo - your avatar is from the For Your Eyes Only roleplaying game?! It looks like it - the jewel in my collecting crown is the complete set of these games. The artwork is a real highlight of them.
  • Posts: 623
    PTS: Skyfall
    Title Track: Skyfall
    Title Credits: Skyfall
    Main Villain: Skyfall
    Main Bond Girl: SPECTRE
    Henchman: SPECTRE
    Overall Plot: SPECTRE
    Dialogue: Skyfall
    Score: Skyfall
    Settings: SPECTRE
    Action: SPECTRE
    Humour: SPECTRE
    Cinematography: SPECTRE
    Benign Bizarre: SPECTRE
    Suspense: SPECTRE
    Minor Characters: SPECTRE
    Glamour: SPECTRE
    Bond Performance: Skyfall



    SPECTRE: 11
    Skyfall: 7
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    PTS: SF
    Title Track: SF
    Title Credits: SF (I absolutely love them.)
    Main Villain: SF
    Main Bond Girl: SF (Severine, we hardly knew ye, but I'd still take you over Madeleine.)
    Henchman: SP (However, I do agree that Patrice serves his purpose well in SF.)
    Overall Plot: SF
    Dialogue: SF
    Score: SF (It had the benefit of being original the first time around.)
    Settings: SF
    Action: SP (The train fight seals it.)
    Humour: SF
    Cinematography: SF
    Benign Bizarre: SP
    Suspense: SF
    Minor Characters: SP (I think this is a first for this category.)
    Glamour: SF
    Bond Performance: SF (Although, the gap is not as wide as it once was. Here's hoping that Mendes doesn't direct the next one.)

    SF 14
    SP 4
  • PTS: Skyfall
    Title Track: Skyfall
    Title Credits: Skyfall
    Main Villain: Skyfall (not a huge fan of Silva, still...)
    Main Bond Girl: Spectre (Severine gives a stronger performance, but greatly limited screen-time and her deplorable send-off damage the character)
    Henchman: Skyfall (Hinx has one great fight, Patrice two, both are mute and largely undeveloped, but ultimately Patrice is much more integral to the plot)
    Overall Plot: Skyfall (all potholes aside, there's more of interest going on in Skyfall)
    Dialogue: Skyfall
    Score: Skyfall (like Mendes, Newman spent his best right out the gate)
    Settings: Skyfall
    Action: Skyfall
    Humour: Spectre (don't recall any particularly laugh-worthy moments in Skyfall)
    Cinematography: Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre: Skyfall
    Suspense: Skyfall (Shanghai high-rise, enquiry scene, chapel)
    Minor Characters: Skyfall (not much to write home about in either, but Mallory, Eve, Severine, and Patrice are more engaging than C, Hinx, Donna Lucia, and White)
    Glamour: Skyfall
    Bond Performance: Skyfall

    Skyfall: 16
    Spectre: 2
  • Jazz007Jazz007 Minnesota
    Posts: 257
    PTS: Skyfall
    Title Track: Skyfall
    Title Credits: Skyfall
    Main Villain: Skyfall
    Main Bond Girl: Spectre
    Henchman: Spectre
    Overall Plot: Skyfall
    Dialogue: Skyfall
    Score: Skyfall
    Settings: Skyfall
    Action: Skyfall
    Humor: Skyfall
    Cinematography: Skyfall
    Benign Bizarre: Skyfall
    Suspense: Skyfall
    Minor Characters: Skyfall
    - Kincade by himself wins it for SF; one of the best side characters in the series!
    Glamour: Skyfall
    BOND PERFORMANCE: Skyfall

    Skyfall: 16
    Spectre: 2
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