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Obviously I'm sorry to hear of your experiences and if I offended you in any way I am very sorry about that. I think I made it clear in the above post that I was not being flippant, rather trying to respectively put my pro-life side of the argument across. I've put this part in bold.
However, on your argument here:
You'll notice that the question above was not in fact addressed to you but to @Ludovico but go ahead with your moral outrage if you must. Equating the life of a foetus/baby with that of insects and vermin is, to my old-fashioned mind, deplorable - you don't surely think I would feel any guilt if I killed one of those? It's a non-starter for an argument and totally irrelevant to the termination of a human life. It's apples and oranges as far as arguments go.
You have your views, I have mine and I suspect never the twain shall meet. I'm not going to take a coronary embolism if you don't share my views or even merely see the merit in what I'm saying. I'm not getting pulled into a protracted argument on this - I've had enough of that nonsense on this forum in the past. End of story.
..and that nobody has the right to terminate a life just because they feel like it.
For a choice that was so hard to make, it sure as hell is hurtful if someone is judgemental on something he/she has never had any close dealings with. If you don't want to be offensive, then think twice before you post something this ignorant. I'll repeat those words: because they feel like it. It's like telling a cancer patient not to whine too much as it is only 'a desease'.
You may not agree with the choice we made, but saying we did it on a whim is outragious and false. Claiming 'you don't want to offend' falls flat when you do just that three words further. You haven't got a clue how much pain is involved. My moral outrage is directed towards you because of the ignorant way you're treating a very intense and painful topic.
And the question about animal life, a statement you yourself made, was to see how easy you would tread on your own principles. Indeed, I never expected you to care about animals we (you) consider vermin. But it IS life. Apparently you don't want to see it, for you yourself have put yourself on the moral highground and end up a hypocrite. It's either that or you haven't thought thing sthrough at all. When do you care bout an animals life, and when don't you? Some animals are vermin to us but have a holy status for others, or they consider them vermin where we think of them of beautiful creatures.
We have people keeping rabbits as pets, and others (farmers) kill them like vermin. Which rabbit's life do you consider worth keeping, and which should be destryed, and what's the difference between the two rabbits?
Please read what I posted twice. Yes, there's emotion in it, the choice was made exactly a year ago and it still hurts. But there's a very important question to you as well.
But hey, I am all for debating on restriction abortion if, and only IF: people get educated about sexuality properly so they can make informed decisions about it and practice safe sex, people have unrestricted access to contraceptives and know how to use them properly (see what I said about about education), said contraceptives become virtually infallible and of course we find a way to eliminate rape in all forms. Until this happens, we can certainly reduce the number of unwanted pregnancies and abortions by working on improving sex ed, giving access to contraceptives, etc.
I don't know how is sex ed in the schools of North Ireland, here in England I have witnessed it and it is appalling, to sometimes catastrophic consequences. I might be wrong, but I think it might be just as worse in North Ireland, if not more so because people waste their energies on religious differences.
I quite clearly stated above that the question on abortion was put to @Ludovico and no-one else and he gave his answer to it, and that should have been that. I did not set out in any way to offend members here. As I clearly did offend the member @CommanderRoss I once again offer a sincere apology; he has my sympathy. Perhaps I was indeed too flippant in my remarks on abortion but it doesn't take long to type a sentence or two out on a keyboard and hit 'post'. Perhaps I need to contemplate matters more and post less. If so, then this was a indeed a hard lesson learned.
This was a thread on the subject of the Irish General Election 2016 and the ongoing negotiations to form a new government in the Republic of Ireland. It was not intended to be a discussion about abortion in Ireland or any other country. The issue of abortion was not brought up in this thread by myself.
If members here wish to start a thread on abortion and give their thoughts on it, feel free. I resent the hijacking of this thread to score points on abortion. It was never the intended purpose of this thread when I created it some months ago. My interest was in politics and not moral issues that we could discuss all year round and never get any agreement on.
I have had previous bad experiences on this forum with the discussion of religion in the Charlie Hebdo Paris attacks thread. I promised myself then that I would never get involved again in such contentious discussions. As of now, I have let myself down by getting dragged into just such a no-win situation as debating abortion ultimately brings about.
I need to seriously consider my future as a member here to see if I should continue posting at all if all I seem to do is offend others and inflame opinion. As stated before in the religion debate, it's certainly not why I joined up here back in December 2012.
I happen to live in a country with many problems (Northern Ireland) but one thing the majority of the population agrees on is that abortion (as is practiced on the UK mainland) should remain illegal. I hold to this view. That may offend some. I'm willing to take the flack on that as those are my sincerely held views. Am I offended some think otherwise? No. Have I a personal experience of abortion? No, but I have an opinion on it nonetheless. I'm not going to lose sleep on this if others disagree with my view. It is an emotive and controversial topic I'd do well to steer clear of on a James Bond fan forum. That's all I have to say, really. I hope members can see my perspective on things.
Sincerely,
Dragonpol.
I understand the question was not aimed at me, it wasn't the question I reacted on. And you're absolutely right on the question posed beeing an impossible one. I'll leave my views on abortion out of the equation, as this indeed isn't the thread for it, but I will say this: In my country it's legal, but there are many important rules. One of which is you have to go to your local doctor first, then go to the clinic and then you've got a 5 day contemplation period. This is mandatory. They also talk to the girl alone to check if she's not pressured into this.
@Dragonpol thank you for your apology. And, in my turn, I apologise for the ferocity in which I reacted. I think it's always dangerous to react too easily on matters whith such impact. I wasn't intent on discussing abortion itself here, merely the notion that such things could be done on a whim. Many topics like this, or religion, or adoption to name just two more carry with them a gravity of emotions that are invisible for those who haven't dealt with it at close quarters. So perhaps therein lies indeed a lesson. Behind every post, in the end, there's a living person (except for @Thunderfinger of course, he's a Nordic god).
Again, sorry for my outburst. I may not agree with you on this topic, but I'm not here to change your mind on it.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-51429292
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/topics/c67qxmljj95t/ireland-election-2020
Possibility of a second election considering there's little chance of a coalition between the top three?
Sinn Féin defeated three leaders of the biggest parties on first preferences in this election. I'm sure they wish they had run more candidates.
Their biggest mistake of this election! They have huge surplus for those elected so far. Could have got more candidates in! Well done to Paul Donnelly. He was shafted in the last election, he has his revenge!
Politics, while interesting and relevant, can cause a lot of friction amongst members. The mod team has deemed it prudent to henceforth close all threads directly addressing contemporary politics. Bond films exist in a political context too, but WWII and the Cold War are obviously 'safer' topics than Trump, Brexit and other modern referenda or elections. Members interested in politics can, of course, always safely resort to private chatrooms.
Even this mod knows that it's probably best not to have the milk so close to the cat. ;-)
We sincerely hope all members can respect this decision. We also thank @Dragonpol for having kindly agreed to allow this thread to be closed. As always, this community presents itself, through its fine and understanding members, as something great to be a part of, with personal opinions less important than the solid friendships on which this community is built.
We will keep the thread open for a day or so, so that every member has the chance to share their opinion in this matter, which we both value and respect.
Thank you all.
Darth Dimi, on behalf of the Mod Team.
But all along I have felt that politics on a Bond forum was not necessary, and I do not mind all politics thread staying closed. We have to take action offline, in our daily lives, as well as on other websites that are about politics directly. So thanks, admins and mods, but I do understand and agree that political threads should now be excluded.
The problem is partly what you are correctly referring to, Trump. If we cannot allow a Trump thread, can we allow other politics threads? We had to close down other threads in the past too, like the world events threads, for similar reasons. You are right, though; these threads can be very interesting. But it would seem that many members feel most comfortable without them, and so does the mod team. I hope you can respect that.