keep the films serious and realistic.

123468

Comments

  • edited January 2013 Posts: 12,837
    I like CR and if you look at it objectively CR is a better film. The action is better, the story is better, the theme song is better, the editing is better, etc.

    But I think CR feels a bit bloated some times, it drags a bit for me and I don't like some of the dialouge or the sinking house finale. I'm also not a fan of the whole rookie angle (QOS has this too but it's not as bad as CR).

    QOS is much slicker and I think has better pacing than CR. Although there's the odd dodgy line the dialouge I think has been improved. I prefer the score and cinematogaphy in QOS and although the editing ruins it a bit I do like the car chase. And I think the finale is better too.

    CR is a better made film but I enjoy QOS more.

    Although I like them, I'm not a huge fan of both to be honest and I think Skyfall is better than the two of them by a mile. But I prefer QOS to CR.
  • SandySandy Somewhere in Europe
    Posts: 4,012
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 and @thelivingroyale get my point, thank you.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Sandy wrote:
    RC7 wrote:
    This 'everyone is entitled to an opinion' defence is also starting to wear a bit thin. Why are people no longer allowed to be told when they are just plain wrong?

    Ha ha. So true.

    But then a person's right might be another person's wrong, when it comes to enjoying a book, a film, a song, etc. I enjoy QoS more than I enjoy CR and there is nothing wrong in that as far as I can see. I don't deny the problems with QoS and I'm not saying CR is a bad film by any means, I just don't enjoy it as much as others. Is it that hard to understand?

    It isn't a matter of people understanding, but instead accepting. Try to block them out. I can even see why QoS could be the preferred film over CR. It has a fast run that keeps moving along and doesn't stop to take a breather. It doesn't have a lot of the romantic aspects of Bond (with Vesper in this instance) that some people aren't a fan of (the little finger and stripped armor dialogue), and the film alone is full of some great dialogue, scenes and action all more than worthy of merit in the best of what Bond films have to offer. You'll receive no lashings from me for your opinion on this matter, that's certain. But some others, my dear @Sandy, are another story entirely.

    I never really understood the appeal of the short run time? It's not something I particularly care for. I remember Forster's hyperbole about wanting QoS to be like a 'bullet'. I think it's a really odd directorial decision to have this structure in mind, when you don't even have a script locked. If he'd tried to be a little less pseudo-intellectual about the whole thing, we may have got the film we deserved. CR was the set up, QoS should have knocked it out of the park. QoS to me, is a little like the novel TMWTGG. It has some interesting moments, but as a whole it is lacking.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    CR is a better made film but I enjoy QOS more.
    This is exactly how I feel as well. Now, if CR had starred a young Timothy Dalton... whoa-ho what a different song I'd be singing.
    ;)
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 3,494
    I'm a believer that everyone is entitled to their opinion, and I'm entitled to disagree within reason. There are movies in the series that are great and I can understand why someone may prefer one to the other. Then there are bad films like MR and DAD that you can't understand in a million years why anyone would prefer them to the great ones. Much as I often feel people like this are morons and could use a lobotomy, I don't advocate the abandonment of human decency when disagreeing with them.

    Among the Craig films I have my likes and dislikes. Despite being very impressed with SF and how on 2 separate occasions I was engrossed to the point that the 2:24 run time felt like a normal length film, CR still feels like the better movie to me. So I've got it CR #1 and SF #2 to date, whereas my son says he likes SF more. Then we have QOS, and here I simply feel that too many factors interfered with the film rising to the level of both CR and SF. But I'd stop short of calling QOS a failure like so many like to do because ultimately the mysterious organization and some more details about them were revealed, and Bond got his answers for Vesper and became the agent M wanted him to be. We see that happen in SF, a Bond recognizable to all and a movie that felt that way.

    The films don't HAVE to be deadly serious for me, but they must be realistic in that everything that happens is at least reasonably possible.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    CR is a better made film but I enjoy QOS more.
    This is exactly how I feel as well. Now, if CR had starred a young Timothy Dalton... whoa-ho what a different song I'd be singing.
    ;)

    Me too mate. If Dalton was in CR I'd probably rate it way higher than I do. It wouldn't fix all the problems I have with it but it's Dalts! The best Bond! That alone would give me reason to rate it in my top 10 at least.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 11,189
    chrisisall wrote:
    CR is a better made film but I enjoy QOS more.
    This is exactly how I feel as well. Now, if CR had starred a young Timothy Dalton... whoa-ho what a different song I'd be singing.
    ;)

    Me too mate. If Dalton was in CR I'd probably rate it way higher than I do. It wouldn't fix all the problems I have with it but it's Dalts! The best Bond! That alone would give me reason to rate it in my top 10 at least.

    Dalton is a solid actor but, with respect to him, I'm not sure even he could have sold the torture scene as brilliantly as Craig did. From anger and terror (the first time we have we have ever heard Bond really scream on film) to humour (I love his laugh and the way he says "no" to LeChiffe when he says to Bond "you really aren't going to tell me are you")

    Of course I could be wrong but eitherway I wouldn't want to change that scene. It's great as it is.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 1,098
    I agree in keeping the films serious and realistic, but humour is also important, as long as it isnt juvenile.

    But, its easier said than done to be able to make a serious, realistic film........youve got to hire the right people for the job.
    An example here is QOS where the producers went off on a tangent and replaced the usual Bond team with a bunch of misfits, who though talented in their own realms, didnt gel together to make a cohesive fim........and we dont ever want that again...do we?

    Tim Dalton, was a very good serious Bond.............but unfortunately for him, the Americans in particular didnt take to his portrayal of a somewhat dour Bond, and at the time prefered the buddy-buddy type movies like Lethal Weapon.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Dalton is a solid actor but, with respect to him, I'm not sure even he could have sold the torture scene as brilliantly as Craig did.
    Craig was AMAZING in that scene, but actors can surprise you. Dalton's take would be equally brilliant, and I'll wager Connery would have been able to make our jaws drop in his own way.
  • Posts: 15,125
    mepal1 wrote:
    I agree in keeping the films serious and realistic, but humour is also important, as long as it isnt juvenile.

    I think people need to make a distinction between humour and comedy. There is room for humour in a Bond movie. But not for comedy.
  • Ludovico wrote:
    mepal1 wrote:
    I agree in keeping the films serious and realistic, but humour is also important, as long as it isnt juvenile.

    I think people need to make a distinction between humour and comedy. There is room for humour in a Bond movie. But not for comedy.

    Much agreed, humor yes, slapstick, sight and sound gags, no, never again.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Much agreed, humor yes, slapstick, sight and sound gags, no, never again.
    When I was 13 I had to see a villain blow up like a balloon & pop. When I was 15 I thankfully only had to deal with a slide whistle. When I was 17 I had to see a fish dropped out of the open window of a car-sub. When I was 19 I heard "Here's to us" and I had had it. [-(
  • Posts: 7,653
    I loved the fish gag with the straight face from Roger Moore as he drives his car out of the sea on the beach. But I agree DC should stay away from that kind of humour which can only be done by masters like Roger Moore, DC would probably look like a bit of a d*ck.
  • And who does have Moore's humor? He is incomparable. No Bond other than Sir Rog, except maybe Sean if he'd wanted, could have pulled the fish drop off. That aside, Craig has his own sense of wit that works for him and I've had plenty of out loud laughs since 2006, so it works for me.
  • Posts: 1,098
    Yes.......no slaptick please

    the likes of Tarzan yells in OP.....and the Beach boys music in AVTAK were awful,

    but to me the worst thing in a Bond film was not the slapstick, but poor realism as in DAD.

    I mean that scene with Bond on a surf board..............that was horrendous, the CGI was appalling it looked liked the CGI team had drawn a black jelly bean, and stuck it on a lolly stick! :-O..........i felt so embarassed to be a Bond fan at that moment.
  • Posts: 7,653
    mepal1 wrote:
    I mean that scene with Bond on a surf board..............that was horrendous, the CGI was appalling it looked liked the CGI team had drawn a black jelly bean, and stuck it on a lolly stick! :-O..........i felt so embarassed to be a Bond fan at that moment.

    I remember that scene in QoB where DC jumps out of that plane without a chute, awefull CGI masked by the editing. In the days of a certain Moore the stunts were done for real.....

  • edited January 2013 Posts: 1,098
    SaintMark wrote:
    mepal1 wrote:
    I mean that scene with Bond on a surf board..............that was horrendous, the CGI was appalling it looked liked the CGI team had drawn a black jelly bean, and stuck it on a lolly stick! :-O..........i felt so embarassed to be a Bond fan at that moment.

    I remember that scene in QoB where DC jumps out of that plane without a chute, awefull CGI masked by the editing. In the days of a certain Moore the stunts were done for real.....

    Yes true.........ive done a parachute jump, and you dont just pull the chute about 30' feet above the ground and survive.
    At the very least you would probably stick into the ground like a 2 pin plug...........haha

    Yes, and the plane stunts in the TLD and OP were also done for real!

  • @RC7 Marc Forster has his own way of doing things. I personally don't like the short runtime of QOS either but even though SF was long I wish it would have shown a dinner scene where Bond serves kische. Back to Forster, he got a lot more control than other directors. This could be compared to Lee Tamahor-ism but some things worked out in the end, such as a carefully crafted score. The writer's strike and the decision to delete the original final scene didn't help though. Trade offs trade offs....
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited January 2013 Posts: 13,355
    Forster said during production he was aiming for the film to be two hours long, as he does with all his films. So how on Earth did it end up 14 minutes shorter?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    The editor should have been drinking decaf.
  • Samuel001 wrote:
    Forster said during production he was aiming for the film to be two hours long, as he does with all his films. So how on Earth did it end up 14 minutes shorter?

    Interesting...he did mention he wanted it to be like a bullet and decided against an extra scene most fans would probably want to have scene perhaps. But this is the same guy who threw BB's comment back at her when she said MF didn't want to return during a panel.
  • Posts: 5,745
    chrisisall wrote:
    The editor should have been drinking decaf.

    Fun fact: I don't believe in decaf... and I work at Starbucks.

    ALSO, Quantum brought in the editor of The Bourne Supremacy, AND Forster brought in his common editor. Why do you need two editors?

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    JWESTBROOK wrote:

    Fun fact: I don't believe in decaf...
    Me either, caffine is my friend.
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Why do you need two editors?
    Faster editing.
    :))
  • RC7RC7
    edited January 2013 Posts: 10,512
    @RC7 Marc Forster has his own way of doing things. I personally don't like the short runtime of QOS either but even though SF was long I wish it would have shown a dinner scene where Bond serves kische. Back to Forster, he got a lot more control than other directors. This could be compared to Lee Tamahor-ism but some things worked out in the end, such as a carefully crafted score. The writer's strike and the decision to delete the original final scene didn't help though. Trade offs trade offs....

    I think Forster fell down because he didn't have the requisite respect for the franchise. He's a pseudo-art-house film maker who thought he was capable of redefining Bond by dismissing everything that had gone before. Martin Campbell is not from the same school of Directors, but he understood exactly what it took to make a Bond picture, and he did it with the utmost respect.

    Martin Scorsese could not make Superbad, and Judd Apatow could not make The Godfather. Martin Campbell can direct 'Bond' films, Marc Forster can't.
  • Posts: 1,098
    It was in the editing room where QOS was spoiled.

    In QOS.....Forster was allowed to bring in his own editors, who unfortuantely didnt have much experience with action films.........and it showed!

    Forster, complained that he wasnt given much time to edit the film, some 6 weeks i believe, which is short................but when you consider Campbell and Mendes managed to edit films which were an hour longer, it makes you wonder what was going on!
  • I liked the unforgettable editing for scenes such as Tosca, the desert scenes which shows the village with a water draught, and the Kazan introduction. There's a pic I once saw here of Bond and Dominic Greene confronting one another in Tosca which shows a long range angle of them facing each other from behind 007 but that was probably the cinematography which should be credited.
  • Posts: 1,098
    RC7 wrote:
    @RC7 Marc Forster has his own way of doing things. I personally don't like the short runtime of QOS either but even though SF was long I wish it would have shown a dinner scene where Bond serves kische. Back to Forster, he got a lot more control than other directors. This could be compared to Lee Tamahor-ism but some things worked out in the end, such as a carefully crafted score. The writer's strike and the decision to delete the original final scene didn't help though. Trade offs trade offs....

    I think Forster fell down because he didn't have the requisite respect for the franchise. He's a pseudo-art-house film maker who thought he was capable of redefining Bond by dismissing everything that had gone before. Martin Campbell is not from the same school of Directors, but he understood exactly what it took to make a Bond picture, and he did it with the utmost respect.

    Martin Scorsese could not make Superbad, and Judd Apatow could not make The Godfather. Martin Campbell can direct 'Bond' films, Marc Forster can't.

    Excellent post..........spot on!

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited January 2013 Posts: 13,355
    JWESTBROOK wrote:
    Why do you need two editors?

    Peter Hunt once said having two editors on a film can't work as you'll end up with two different films at the end of it.

    Who the hell thought having two editors was a good idea? :|
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,801
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Peter Hunt once said having two editors on a film can't work as you'll end up with two different films at the end of it.
    Yes, as an amateur film-maker, I TOTALLY concur.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Peter Hunt once said having two editors on a film can't work as you'll end up with two different films at the end of it.
    Yes, as an amateur film-maker, I TOTALLY concur.

    I think that that *can* be true, but not always. I can't remember who, but one director had a main editor for his films but then had a second one for the "crying and dying" scenes. Each editor had their strengths and the films as a whole were better because of that arrangement. Of course it would work best with a director who had a very clear overall vision and style of their own to begin with.

    I would imagine that it's not very common, though.

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