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The Nadir of the Bond Franchise?

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  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Regardless of the general views on Die Another Day, I do still enjoy it and it's definitely in the middle of my list of Bond rankings. I too think The World Is Not Enough was by far worse than its successor, as I think A View To A Kill was worse than Moonraker. And I love Moonraker.

    I think View is worse than MR too. At least MR is visually impressive and doesn't feel lazy.
    Of course.

    I'm being hard on View because it does have some nice cinematography occasionally. However, the film feels very bland and uninspired.
    I heartily enjoy the film throughout the PTS (Yes, I can ignore the Beach Boys song) as well as the segment taking place in Zorin's estate. After Bond makes it to California, that's where I lose interest in the film because, like you said, it gets very bland and uninspired. And certainly Moore's leather jacket didn't make the film any more interesting, either.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Moore's leather jacket is awful.

    I think even the PTS feels kind of routine (aside from the decent score) partly because of the obvious studio back drops and model work in places. Things take a bad turn though when Moore gets in the sub with the most unconvincing female agent ever.

    Roger's suaveness just feels tired.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Regardless of the general views on Die Another Day, I do still enjoy it and it's definitely in the middle of my list of Bond rankings. I too think The World Is Not Enough was by far worse than its successor, as I think A View To A Kill was worse than Moonraker. And I love Moonraker.

    I think View is worse than MR too. At least MR is visually impressive and doesn't feel lazy.
    Of course.

    I'm being hard on View because it does have some nice cinematography occasionally. However, the film feels very bland and uninspired.
    I heartily enjoy the film throughout the PTS (Yes, I can ignore the Beach Boys song) as well as the segment taking place in Zorin's estate. After Bond makes it to California, that's where I lose interest in the film because, like you said, it gets very bland and uninspired. And certainly Moore's leather jacket didn't make the film any more interesting, either.

    Ah yes, the leather jacket. Why they chose to take a man of advancing years and put him in a leather jacket and suede Zorin jacket thingy for much of the film is mystery to me. Should have stuck to the suits but there you go.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited April 2016 Posts: 11,189
    I think leather jackets were the IN thing once again in the 80s - not that I am old enough to remember.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think leather jackets were the IN thing once again in the 80s.

    That would explain Timbo's lovely baggy number in TLD.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    identigraph wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think leather jackets were the IN thing once again in the 80s.

    That would explain Timbo's lovely baggy number in TLD.

    Tim sells it a lot better than Moore, who just looks like an old geezer.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    I think even the PTS feels kind of routine (aside from the decent score) partly because of the obvious studio back drops and model work in places. Things take a bad turn though when Moore gets in the sub with the most unconvincing female agent ever.

    Roger's suaveness just feels tired.
    Haha, she is that unconvincing, isn't she? :))

    I agree. He just wasn't the man he used to be, anymore.
    identigraph wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Regardless of the general views on Die Another Day, I do still enjoy it and it's definitely in the middle of my list of Bond rankings. I too think The World Is Not Enough was by far worse than its successor, as I think A View To A Kill was worse than Moonraker. And I love Moonraker.

    I think View is worse than MR too. At least MR is visually impressive and doesn't feel lazy.
    Of course.

    I'm being hard on View because it does have some nice cinematography occasionally. However, the film feels very bland and uninspired.
    I heartily enjoy the film throughout the PTS (Yes, I can ignore the Beach Boys song) as well as the segment taking place in Zorin's estate. After Bond makes it to California, that's where I lose interest in the film because, like you said, it gets very bland and uninspired. And certainly Moore's leather jacket didn't make the film any more interesting, either.

    Ah yes, the leather jacket. Why they chose to take a man of advancing years and put him in a leather jacket and suede Zorin jacket thingy for much of the film is mystery to me. Should have stuck to the suits but there you go.
    The whole thing feels tired for me. After For Your Eyes Only, Moore should've walked away and open the doors for Lewis Collins to take over for a couple of films only. As in Collins should've done Octopussy and A View To A Kill.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    Can't really blame Rog, they chucked 5 million at him but all concerned should have seen OP as a triumphant finale.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    identigraph wrote: »
    Can't really blame Rog, they chucked 5 million at him but all concerned should have seen OP as a triumphant finale.
    Agreed. That was Cubby's mistake, really.
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    I always come back to the suspicion the film was just a stop gap. The studio wanted a film every two years, Cubby wanted Dalton or Brosnan, neither were available so they churned another out with Rog.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    identigraph wrote: »
    I always come back to the suspicion the film was just a stop gap. The studio wanted a film every two years, Cubby wanted Dalton or Brosnan, neither were available so they churned another out with Rog.
    Mostly Brosnan. He was really eager to get Brosnan into Bond ever since they met on the set of For Your Eyes Only.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    edited April 2016 Posts: 4,325
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    identigraph wrote: »
    I always come back to the suspicion the film was just a stop gap. The studio wanted a film every two years, Cubby wanted Dalton or Brosnan, neither were available so they churned another out with Rog.
    Mostly Brosnan. He was really eager to get Brosnan into Bond ever since they met on the set of For Your Eyes Only.

    They offered TLD to Dalton before Brosnan. He was eager for Dalton since 1968. Offered to Dalton - he wasn't available because he was doing Brenda Starr. Signed Brosnan, Remington Steele contract clause put paid to that. Went back to Dalton who was then available.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    identigraph wrote: »
    I always come back to the suspicion the film was just a stop gap. The studio wanted a film every two years, Cubby wanted Dalton or Brosnan, neither were available so they churned another out with Rog.
    Mostly Brosnan. He was really eager to get Brosnan into Bond ever since they met on the set of For Your Eyes Only.

    They offered TLD to Dalton before Brosnan. He was eager for Dalton since 1968. Offered to Dalton - he wasn't available because he was doing Brenda Starr. Signed Brosnan, Remington Steele contract clause put paid to that. Went back to Dalton who was then available.
    I know that. Dalton was offered the part in On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but he turned it down because he was too young to take on the role. But, I don't believe he turned down the part or was offered until The Living Daylights. Yes, he did offer Dalton first, because Brosnan in 1985/6 was still doing Season 4 of Remington Steele intact. Dalton turns down, Brosnan is done with the aforementioned series, Cubby gets Brosnan signed for The Living Daylights, and when the Remington Steele producers try to revive the series for a couple of episodes, Cubby relieves Brosnan from his duties, and Dalton is offered the part, again.

    Quite convoluted, really. Not easy being a film producer.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Die-Another-Day-James-Bond-Pierce-Brosnan-kite-surfing-wave.png

    It is the single lowest point.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,187
    @ClarkDevil & @BAIN123, very well said, gents. AVTAK is a much weaker Bond film than MR in my opinion too.
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    @ClarkDevil & @BAIN123, very well said, gents. AVTAK is a much weaker Bond film than MR in my opinion too.

    AVTAK is the worst bond movie, in my opinion
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I can't see how AVTAK would be better than MR
    RC7 wrote: »
    Die-Another-Day-James-Bond-Pierce-Brosnan-kite-surfing-wave.png

    It is the single lowest point.

    Definitely a single low point.
    But the fake explosions in DAF are not better really.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    I love AVTAK; always enjoyed it as a kid and I've enjoyed it ever since, so I see it as leagues better than MR.

    Hard to argue with the tsunami scene being a nadir of the franchise. Saw it again last night, there's no overlooking or excusing it.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,023
    I'd say TMWTGG was the 'nadir' of the Bond series. It seemed the Bond series had run it's course and was a tired old Dinosaur. The film was lame, unexciting and had the lazy cheek to bring back the 'comedy sheriff' from the previous film (why he's test driving a car in Thailand is anybody's guess!) Which is why Cubby pulled out all the stops and produced the spectacular TSWLM to reinvigorate the series.

    It worked of course!

  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited April 2016 Posts: 7,136
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I love AVTAK; always enjoyed it as a kid and I've enjoyed it ever since, so I see it as leagues better than MR.

    Hard to argue with the tsunami scene being a nadir of the franchise. Saw it again last night, there's no overlooking or excusing it.

    Agreed with both statements.

    I'd say the worst moments in Bond are:

    1. The tsunami surfing
    2. The Bondola
    3. The DAD finale
    4. The SP finale
    5. Blowing up Kananga
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I think personal dislikes really don't count as "nadir of the franchise"
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    I think personal dislikes really don't count as "nadir of the franchise"
    +1

    That's always the problem with most of the folks, here.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,978
    Or, some of us aren't as old as a lot of the members here, so we're going off of what we know. I can't say there was a nadir of the franchise in the 70's or 80's, as I wasn't around then. I only came to know of Bond once TND was the new entry and TWINE was growing closer to release. Thus, I have GE - SP to work with, so from there, while I still love the film, I'd say the nadir of the franchise for me is some of the stuff we saw in DAD, particularly those cringe-worthy scenes, awful dialogue, and even worse CG: something that shouldn't have been in a Bond film to begin with. That, for me, is the major low point that should only be brought up as a learning lesson, not something to ape and copy.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,592
    At least we got the EON game in 2004 which served, at least for me, as a bridge to CR
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    At least we got the EON game in 2004 which served, at least for me, as a bridge to CR
    Which was Die Another Day 2.0.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,592
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    At least we got the EON game in 2004 which served, at least for me, as a bridge to CR
    Which was Die Another Day 2.0.

    Well when you got to the end. The Peru/Louisiana sequences were pretty good IMO
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    At least we got the EON game in 2004 which served, at least for me, as a bridge to CR
    Which was Die Another Day 2.0.

    Well when you got to the end. The Peru/Louisiana sequences were pretty good IMO
    I very much agree. I just wish they went with the first draft instead of what we've had. I've read only the first act of Everything or Nothing's original script and I have to say it's really a worthy plot of a Bond film.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,592
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    At least we got the EON game in 2004 which served, at least for me, as a bridge to CR
    Which was Die Another Day 2.0.

    Well when you got to the end. The Peru/Louisiana sequences were pretty good IMO
    I very much agree. I just wish they went with the first draft instead of what we've had. I've read only the first act of Everything or Nothing's original script and I have to say it's really a worthy plot of a Bond film.

    As much as the far fetched ending (I mean it is a video game. You have to keep the kiddos entertained. I think I was 15 when it came out) it definitely could have been a full fledged Bond film. Connection between Diavolo and Zorin, actual actors playing the roles. The return of Jaws was a little far fetched, but also refreshing to see as we never see what happened to him after MR.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    ClarkDevlin wrote: »
    Last_Rat_Standing wrote: »
    At least we got the EON game in 2004 which served, at least for me, as a bridge to CR
    Which was Die Another Day 2.0.

    Well when you got to the end. The Peru/Louisiana sequences were pretty good IMO
    I very much agree. I just wish they went with the first draft instead of what we've had. I've read only the first act of Everything or Nothing's original script and I have to say it's really a worthy plot of a Bond film.

    As much as the far fetched ending (I mean it is a video game. You have to keep the kiddos entertained. I think I was 15 when it came out) it definitely could have been a full fledged Bond film. Connection between Diavolo and Zorin, actual actors playing the roles. The return of Jaws was a little far fetched, but also refreshing to see as we never see what happened to him after MR.
    I was 10 when it came out and it had me excited like hell. I thought it was going to come out on PC, but it didn't. That game is the reason for why I bought PlayStation 2. Yep, I didn't play the earlier games on the platform until before From Russia With Love was out. Anyway, I do agree that the characters were great, but the last act could have been a lot better. My complaint with Everything or Nothing was that it took the sci-fi element from the then-latest film and exaggerated it. That's why I don't like the third act of the game and I wish they remained on the double agent plot with conspiracy as originally planned. Diavolo's role was filled in by an old man supposedly to be played by Anthony Hopkins (again!).
  • OHMSS69OHMSS69
    Posts: 2,341
    I will always trash MR as the lowest point in the series. Aside from the great PTS, the Centrifudge, and the fight with Chang this movie sucked anally.

    Maybe I am being too hard or contradicting by listing three things that I actually liked in the film. But after seeing this train wreck in the summer of 1979 I was ready to swear off Bond films. Only upon learning that FYEO was going back to basics, then I relent and return to the cinema.

    Most of the Brosnan's films (except GE) I found just lazy and uninspiring. DAD being the worst. I can't find three things to recommend this crap-fest.

    Despite all the hate that AVTAK gets it still had those great villains, the fight on the Golden Gate Bridge, and Tanya Roberts (just to watch her made it worth while; not her acting just her looks)
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