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The Zenith of the Bond Franchise?

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    SF is sufficiently unique as a Bond entry and as a film that I think it will always be looked at quite favourably. The fact that it was a critical and commercial juggernaut in addition to that will probably also keep it as a benchmark film for a lot of folks.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Goldfinger is still the film the whole world knows about, so that s that.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,804
    My personal zenith was TLD - TND.
    The actual zenith was DN - TB.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Goldfinger is still the film the whole world knows about, so that s that.

    Agreed.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,999
    With Goldfinger all the elements came together to create what the series became. We get the bigger than life villain, the car, the spectacle, the music. While CR is in my opinion the very best film of the series, followed by OHMSS, everything follows on from GF. After GF, little feels new. By now we know the formula and we wait to see how the latest installment will deal with the elements we've come to expect from a Bond film. In later outings we get bigger, but not always better.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,138
    Quality zenith: DN-OHMSS, TLD-GE
    Popularity zenith: GF-TB, TSWLM-MR, SF-SP
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,404
    I just realised something. Each Actors first Bond film is my own personal favourite of theirs.

    Connery - DN

    Lazenby - OHMSS

    Moore - LALD

    Dalton - TLD

    Brosnan - GE

    Craig - CR

    Anyway, I would probably say that 62 - 65 was the high point, even though each one of those is worse than the last one IMO.
  • IncompetentHenchmanIncompetentHenchman
    Posts: 1,817
    chrisisall wrote: »
    My personal zenith was TLD - TND.
    The actual zenith was DN - TB.

    Hear, hear.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    edited April 2016 Posts: 1,984
    Interesting to see that many people believe that a franchise is in its' zenith when it's in in its infancy. Obviously, some extremely good decisions were made in the early 60's.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,306
    The answer is Casino Royale:

    http://www.gq.com/story/casino-royale-10-years
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    OHMSS, obviously
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,138
    First zenith: The sixties, reached peaks with FRWL and OHMSS. If the lowest point is a solid film such as YOLT, you've done pretty well.

    Second zenith: TLD-LTK-GE. Obviously a personal choice, all three are in my top five.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    edited November 2016 Posts: 732
    Zeniths: TB and SF (for relevance with audiences)

    In my opinion it does not make sense to look at critical zeniths since that is just personal preference: No doubt OHMSS is a very good movie for example - but it did not have the relevance for general moviegoers like TB or SF had.

    IMHO:
    TB had it's massive impact because the audience was retained plus broadened with each movie from Doctor No up to Goldfinger. GF was THE movie that let the whole thing explode in terms of popularity. That plus the good word-of-mouth of TB ("high entertainment value") made it the top grossing movie for many, many years. Following movies could retain the "core" 007 audience - but they also lost quite a chunk of it again and gained much less quite often so that the general admissions never came to a point like with TB.

    SF was such a massive success in part due to the 50th anniversary and also the marketing campaign ... but while these factors definitely have their impact, I truly believe that it's especially the 6 year gap between 2006 and 2012 where in particular CR found a whole new audience for Bond in the home cinema. Many became fans of "that new Bond" during that time and often not right away in the original release in cinemas. When this was met with the excellent reviews of SF it's what made audiences stream into the cinemas in masses only comparable with the 60s.

    Like TB also SF brought the audiences to the cinemas but not all were THAT satisfied with the movie so some parts of the audience were lost again plus SPs word-of-mouth was definitly down from SF. I am sure this had a big effect. SF was "must-see" where SP was often cited as "OK" to "flawed".

    That's why I personally see GF and CR being the movies that found the biggest chunks of new audience. Except the 80s there was always fluctuation, always hits and misses. But IMHO those 2 movies (GF, CR) with their lead actors paved the way to the enormous success of TB and SF - helped (but not soley because of) by other factors like marketing and timing.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2016 Posts: 23,883
    @SeanCraig, I agree wholeheartedly on TB & SF, but will also add TSWLM and GE to that mix. Although not as significant, both these films also brought in a whole new generation of viewers.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Yes, as did the N64 GoldenEye game, if there hadn't been a spread on it in Nintendo Official Magazine, I might not have decided to give YOLT a go when it was on ITV round that time.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    bondjames wrote: »
    @SeanCraig, I agree wholeheartedly on TB & SF, but will also add TSWLM and GE to that mix. Although not as significant, both these films also brought in a whole new generation of viewers.

    TSWLM and GE were much more significant for the franchise than SF.
    The only thing SF did was raise the level of BO Bond can make.

    TSWLM on the other hand probably saved the franchise.

    GE brought in generations of new Bond fans, something SF certainly did not achieve.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited November 2016 Posts: 6,306
    BondJasonBond006 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    @SeanCraig, I agree wholeheartedly on TB & SF, but will also add TSWLM and GE to that mix. Although not as significant, both these films also brought in a whole new generation of viewers.

    TSWLM and GE were much more significant for the franchise than SF.
    The only thing SF did was raise the level of BO Bond can make.

    TSWLM on the other hand probably saved the franchise.

    GE brought in generations of new Bond fans, something SF certainly did not achieve.

    I think you are right. TSWLM saved the franchise, with GE a distant second. If CR hadn't happened, I do think there would have been a series of movies after DAD, specifically because TSWLM had already showed the franchise could be brought back.
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    No doubt TSWLM was a turning point and saved the franchise, to some extend GE as well. But both have imho not been zeniths of the franchise - meaning: Being it's most relevant for the moviegoers.

    I think ticket sales is the only way to measure this leaving out all personal favourites and so on.
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