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"Star Trek: Discovery" (CBS All Access/Netflix, 2017)

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I know there was a lot of controversy over the Klingons in "In to Darkness"
    As they looked a bit different, but it didn't bother me. As Like I remarked
    Before, I'm no expert. Although if you compare the Klingons from the
    Original series, they too look very different from those of The next generation.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    In Canon the Klingons have changed that many times, in the Original series they had no exoskeleton skull though in Enterprise they did. If I remember Worf was asked about the change, he said something dismissive can't remember exactly. The Klingons in Into Darkness I thought were a natural progression, they looked quite intimidating.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :)) Yes, I remember the episode with Warf. I think he said ...
    " It's something we never talk about "
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    I liked the Klingons in Into Darkness. They looked really cool and more alien.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    They still looked " Badass" and tough as hell.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited July 2016 Posts: 6,432
    It was the DS9 tribute episode Trials and Tribblations I think? Fantastic episode
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I think you're right. A brilliant episode mixing in the classic episode with
    DS9 :) although I was never a fan of DS9.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    That is my favorite DS9 episode and a true tribute to the original series.
  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    edited July 2016 Posts: 6,432

    :)>- Think I may watch that episode on Netflix later, one of the best DS9 episodes for sure. If I recall they had original cast from Trouble with Tribbles episode. Not watched it for maybe ten years.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    There is not much to talk about until the film is released and further news on show emerges.

    Well, that's true. But how do you explain the insane nerdiness of 'Star Wars' then? I mean, the 'Star Wars' topic in here is much busier and "Rogue Planet: A Star Wars Tale" isn't even out yet. Whereas "Star Trek Beyond" comes out in just one week.

    I guess, people in general understand the simple magic and fantasy of "Star Wars" much better as opposed to the more intellectual message of "Star Trek".

  • fire_and_icefire_and_ice
    Posts: 6,432
    I think Star Wars is more accessible to a broader audience, though modern Trek resembles Star Wars which was a conscious decision by paramount. Hence Beyond being helmed by a Fast and Furious Director, will be interesting to see how the audience responds to Beyond early reviews are positive.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    I think Star Wars is more accessible to a broader audience, though modern Trek resembles Star Wars which was a conscious decision by paramount. Hence Beyond being helmed by a Fast and Furious Director, will be interesting to see how the audience responds to Beyond early reviews are positive.
    fire_and_ice wrote: »
    It was the DS9 tribute episode Trials and Tribblations I think? Fantastic episode

    "Trials and Tribble-ations" obviously is a fun, entertaining cross-over episode celebrating the anniversary of being the 75th episode of that series.

    But really, is it really the pivotal episode that asks fundamental questions about human ethical struggles and geopolitical events that should inspire us to do better? For me, that's "Star Trek", not just cross-over-ing and celebrating anniversaries.

    For me one of the better episode is the two-parter 'Homefront/Paradise Lost'. That episode shows us that a simple terrorist and a species with 'otherwordly' characteristisc, like the changelings, who can morph into exact physical copies of human beings, can have severe consequences. And those consequences are facilitating fear, anger and hate. Now....where do we see that in today's society?

    THAT for me is "Star Trek".

    Or what about 'Doctor Bashir, I Presume', an episode that goes into detail about the genetical modifications Bashir's parents made to him and what ethical consequences that have to society. Do we lock up 'outcasts' like Bashir? Or do we make people understand that Bashir still is a human being, despite his genetical modifications? We do see examples of that in our society. How.....do we treat transgenders? By tagging them as outcasts? Or by making them feel part of humanity?

    THAT for me is "Star Trek".

    "Star Wars" doesn't come even close to that intellectuality. And sadly, Abrahms' "Star Trek" suffers from the absence of the original Roddenberry-vision as well. Abrahms sacrificed the essence of "Star Trek" for making it too 'popcorny', too "Star Wars". Yes, this was a conscious decision of Paramount. Marketing-wise it's an understandable decision, but premise-wise it's not.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    edited July 2016 Posts: 4,346
    Roddenberry's visions for society have more space in the TV series. For me the movies mainly have to be intelligent fun. One day I am going to re-watch DS9, many good ideas in there. One was a reflection on war crimes and I remember it to be quite powerful, but I forgot which episode that was.

    … found it, brilliant 4 minutes of Trek-TV:

  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Star Wars is a thinly veiled fairy story. The first words that appear on the screen confirm this. It also has a Princess, young handsome hero etc etc. Star Trek IMHO is far more adult and, like really good science fiction, explores many moral issues that we face as humans. It is far more thought provoking and deeper. That's not to say there is not room for action, fun and humour. With a good script, all the elements can come together.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    fully agreed
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    zebrafish wrote: »
    Roddenberry's visions for society have more space in the TV series. For me the movies mainly have to be intelligent fun. One day I am going to re-watch DS9, many good ideas in there. One was a reflection on war crimes and I remember it to be quite powerful, but I forgot which episode that was.

    … found it, brilliant 4 minutes of Trek-TV:


    It depends how you look at it. I think many recent space based Sci-Fi films have actually got that "Star Trek-vibe" that I miss with the actual 'Star Trek' films. Think about "The Martian", which has a wonderful, positive message of countries working together to find a solution: Saving the 'Martian' (China and the USA). "Interstellar" is perhaps the pivotal 'Trek' films that puts exploration of the unknown front-center and that for answers to difficult scientific and ecological problems you can only achieve the greatest if you think about simple human relationships and emotions. Then there was "Gravity" which also had a story of human individual strength within a dire, life threatening situation in space. Then movies like "Cloud Atlas" and "Gattaca" really go into detail about the darker sides of humanity; the execution of genocide and the elimination of people with mental or physical disabilities from society. "Moon" and "Oblivion" really had some powerful messages about cloning and what it means to the actual clones when they discover how they have been created. And lastly there was this Sci-Fi gem from Neil Blomkamp, "Elysium", in which we basically see an incredibly real parallel to the immigrant situation in the prosperous continent of Europe.

    And the fact is: I just don't see this kind of 'Star Trek', of Roddenberry's vision, in recent "Star Trek" films. And my above examples show that this actually could be possible.

    Look, when "Star Trek" was about to be rebooted in 2008, I was truly hoping that Paramount would reboot it into a more serious, darker way. Similar perhaps to how director Christopher Nolan rebooted "Batman". Actually, I was rooting for Nolan to do a more serious, darker Star Trek film. But then I heard the name J.J. Abrahms........and I felt gutted. A devoted "Star Wars" fan was about to reboot "Star Trek" in such a way that it actually becomes a "Star Wars"-esque "Star Trek". And on top of that, after Abrahms, Paramount hired Justin Lin (!!).


    So yeah, I am slightly disappointed. But I do think that also the movie franchise can be made more...intellectual, more intelligent, more....'Arthur C. Clarke-esque'. Perhaps therefore I am looking more forward to the new "Star Trek" TV Series. Especially after I heard Nicholas Meyer talking about the premise of the new series:
    "I think it's going to be a different Star Trek. It will go in a different direction. And I think that is probably good. Because the thing that mainly troubles me about recent Star Trek is the fear of it being maybe re-treads of itself. And to the degree that I had any influence on the thing at all was that at least while I was there, we were fooling around."

    "The one thing I can relate to you is that 'The Undiscovered Country' -according to Bryan [Fuller]- is a real sort of taking off point, or touchstone for how I guess he's thinking about the direction of the new show. I don't want to be misquoted and I don't want to misquote him, but he's fond of that film. Let's put it that way."

    And therefore we all should be tremendously excited for the new TV Series. "Star Trek TV Series 2017" will most likely be DS9-esque in nature.....way more than the current Abrahms-films.

  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    The key thing is that Roddenberry had a vision. As soon as you have that, it forces you to deal with how society has moved forward (or back) etc, this is the heart of good science fiction. You can still see that in the sixth movie when they dealt with issues concerning forgiveness, detente, racism, bigotry etc. There is some heavy stuff going on there amongst the cosy one liners and the Plummer scenery chewing. It may be still there in the new stuff, but if it is, I struggle to see it. Perhaps the CGI , fast edits etc gets in the way? or perhaps that vision and how a future society has got there is just not there anymore.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    patb wrote: »
    The key thing is that Roddenberry had a vision. As soon as you have that, it forces you to deal with how society has moved forward (or back) etc, this is the heart of good science fiction. You can still see that in the sixth movie when they dealt with issues concerning forgiveness, detente, racism, bigotry etc. There is some heavy stuff going on there amongst the cosy one liners and the Plummer scenery chewing. It may be still there in the new stuff, but if it is, I struggle to see it. Perhaps the CGI , fast edits etc gets in the way? or perhaps that vision and how a future society has got there is just not there anymore.

    Hence why I am thrilled that "The Undiscovered Country" actually is the starting point of the new Trek TV Series.

    Moreover, in the year 2016 that we are living in now, we have faced quite a lot of....eh....shit no? Immigrant crisis, the Syrian refugees, populism spreading all over Europe and the USA, Brexit, way too hard US presidential elections, the EU, the financial crisis, the Euro, Greece. So especially now we could use a bit more Gene Roddenberry.
  • patbpatb
    Posts: 4,617
    Spot on, there is so much material on our own planet right now to use as a basis for future plot lines. How about a planet choosing the exit the Federation? Or a massive refugee cargo ship arriving without warning on Earth. The material is all around us.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Isn't there an old adage that sci-fi tells us more about the times it was made in
    than about the future. ;)
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    patb wrote: »
    Spot on, there is so much material on our own planet right now to use as a basis for future plot lines. How about a planet choosing the exit the Federation? Or a massive refugee cargo ship arriving without warning on Earth. The material is all around us.

    The funny thing is, that this concept is actually part of the new film "Star Trek Beyond". I heard the villain Krall is fighting heavily against a Federation outpost...and that he has a sincere hate for the United Federation of Planets and its agenda of 'peace' and 'love'.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    Spot on, there is so much material on our own planet right now to use as a basis for future plot lines. How about a planet choosing the exit the Federation? Or a massive refugee cargo ship arriving without warning on Earth. The material is all around us.

    The funny thing is, that this concept is actually part of the new film "Star Trek Beyond". I heard the villain Krall is fighting heavily against a Federation outpost...and that he has a sincere hate for the United Federation of Planets and its agenda of 'peace' and 'love'.

    Spoilers! Come on! >:P
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Confirmation from CBS Television regarding the new "Star Trek" TV Series. Apart from the USA and Canada, the new series will be seen in all other 188 countries on the planet on Netflix!
    http://variety.com/2016/digital/global/netflix-exclusive-international-new-star-trek-series-1201816219/
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Ladies and gentleman, the first picture of the (a) new captain's chair. Tweeted by series co-creator Bryan Fuller. Note that it's still an unfinished one :-):
    CnrvCtpUMAAWjDE.jpg
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    IT'S OFFICIAL! The new Star Trek TV-Series is named "STAR TREK: DISCOVERY"!! And the reason why it's called 'Star Trek: Discovery', is because it has a primary Starfleet vessel, the USS Discovery NCC-1031 !!
    http://io9.gizmodo.com/the-new-star-trek-tv-show-has-a-title-and-a-starship-d-1784191488

    Here are the first images of the new Starfleet ship:
    zjybsml2glgqsxtrafpb.PNG
    vfhbzhbmcujvzruxexlz.PNG

    Also interesting, the new TV-Series will NOT take place in the Kelvin Universe (The timeline that is mockingly called the 'Abrahmsverse', named after the recent three Star Trek films), but WILL take place in the Prime Universe:
    http://io9.gizmodo.com/star-trek-discovery-officially-takes-place-in-the-prim-1784196830

    Andddd *drumrolls", here's the 2nd teaser trailer of the new TV Series, "Star Trek: Discovery"!:
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Anyone? :D
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,346
    What an ugly space ship! Shitty color, no style, already hate it. If this series is not uplifting like TOS and TNG, but dark like DS9 and ENT, then I'll not be too invested. With all the stuff going on in the world right now I want an optimistic series.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    zebrafish wrote: »
    What an ugly space ship! Shitty color, no style, already hate it. If this series is not uplifting like TOS and TNG, but dark like DS9 and ENT, then I'll not be too invested. With all the stuff going on in the world right now I want an optimistic series.

    The design of the USS Discovery is inspired by the first design sketches (by Darren Ramsey) of the Phase 2 TV Series, that eventually never aired:

    dramseyphase-002.jpg
    dramseyphase-006.jpg

    Please take into account that the teaser features some very rough footage of the new ship. And please give the TV Series a fair chance.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,357
    I think it's neat that they based it on Ralph McQuarrie's artwork for what was an idea for Star Trek: The Motion Picture called "Planet of the Titans" Which I wasn't a fan of that design, I do like it in this teaser and I'm very interesting to see how it goes.

    titans%2B1.jpeg
    phaseIIenterprise.jpeg
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Me too! Some more news from Ex-Astris-Scientia:

    Fuller corroborated his previous statement that Star Trek Discovery will not be episodic:
    "We will be telling stories like a novel on the new series. Chapter by chapter by chapter."

    He also said that his intention is to allow Star Trek to
    "continue to be progressive. Continue to push boundaries".
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