How should the 00 section be handled in future movies?

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  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    I would like future Bond films to go back to referring to it as "the Double-O-Section" as opposed to "the Double-O-Program". Slightly nitpicky, but that was one element of SPECTRE that didn't quite sit well with me.
    Both phrases are used interchangeably in Spectre. In fact, the words "00 Section" are muttered by M himself.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,299
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It's like Henderson saying 'stirred not shaken' in that I can't believe there wasn't one person on set who didn't say 'hang on that's f**king bullshit isn't it?'

    I've always interpreted that scene as Henderson screwing up and Bond being too polite to correct him. Connery's delivery even sounds a bit sarcastic.

    That's how I always took it.

    Me too.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 12,837
    Yeah I'm sure that was on purpose as @JawsIsAlive says. The only reason I even remember that bit is because they included it in the advert at the start of the old videos, it was put in to contrast with Bond himself saying it properly iirc (the editions where if you lined up the films they form the actors faces), I don't think they'd do that if it was a mistake.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,223
    Yeah I'm sure that was on purpose as @JawsIsAlive says. The only reason I even remember that bit is because they included it in the advert at the start of the old videos, it was put in to contrast with Bond himself saying it properly iirc (the editions where if you lined up the films they form the actors faces), I don't think they'd do that if it was a mistake.

    At worst, it's a happy accident. It's not a laugh out loud moment in the classic sense, but it always made me smile - even when I was small and didn't know the difference that stirred from shaken made to a vodka.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    It's like Henderson saying 'stirred not shaken' in that I can't believe there wasn't one person on set who didn't say 'hang on that's f**king bullshit isn't it?'

    I've always interpreted that scene as Henderson screwing up and Bond being too polite to correct him. Connery's delivery even sounds a bit sarcastic.
    Chriscoop wrote: »
    Following on from Spectre, i think the 00 section of mi6 should become more clandestine, the home Secretary would have a meeting with M and basically give him carte blanche and an undisclosed budget, M reports directly to the pm and home Secretary, the boss of mi6 is kept at arms length, and all the 00 operations are deemed wholly deniable, not so much Bourne esque black ops but something more akin to Fleming's 00 section IMHO, I also want bond back out on fully sanctioned missions.

    I have to agree with alot of that, sounds like the perfect way to update the double-oh section to a post-Snowden world. Stick M's office in a Universal Exports building off of Trafalgar Square and keep the whole operation off the books. After all, we are talking about a government hit squad with no oversight and a licence to kill with discretion.

    Agree with both comments. I had the same idea as your first. At the very least would give reason to keep the traditional office in the UE offices and still acknowledged the real life MI6 building.
  • Posts: 12,837
    I think M should be the head of the 00 section (or given that there aren't many 00 agents, maybe could be generalised to the head of the special/black ops division) rather than MI6 as a whole. Seems sort of dumb that he or she has such a close relationship with and makes so much time for Bond when they're supposedly in charge of the whole of British intelligence (who was left running things when M was going off globetrotting after Bond in QoS?). Worked for Fleming and the early films, not so much now.

    The 00 section should absolutely be off books, but I wouldn't mind the occasional villain knowing about it: eg, if the villain is ex secret service or has some means of acquiring government secrets, then I wouldn't mind them knowing about it as it'd make a nice "oh shit" moment and raise the stakes for them when they inevitably find out who Bond is. The idea of it being mentioned at a public enquiry is too much for me. Makes more sense for future films to keep it an offshoot, a secret thing.

    In keeping with this, Universal Exports should be where they're based. I liked it when the MI6 building was first used in GE, made it feel fresh and modern but yeah really the old office building would make more sense. You could have a best of both worlds scenario here. The 00 section can still be based in Universal Exports but if in one film Bond or MI6 uncover some world domination plot, when it's a global crisis, Bond and M could be whisked away to meet the head of MI6 and the minister of defence and whoever at the vauxhall building. It'd be a cool way of showing the stakes were raised and it'd give the films real world credibility while still sticking to their roots with the universal export building.
  • Posts: 312
    Universal Exports should be where they're based. I liked it when the MI6 building was first used in GE, made it feel fresh and modern but yeah really the old office building would make more sense. You could have a best of both worlds scenario here. The 00 section can still be based in Universal Exports but if in one film Bond or MI6 uncover some world domination plot, when it's a global crisis, Bond and M could be whisked away to meet the head of MI6 and the minister of defence and whoever at the vauxhall building. It'd be a cool way of showing the stakes were raised and it'd give the films real world credibility while still sticking to their roots with the universal export building.

    But MI6 building at Vauxhall Cross was blown up in Spectre and now doesn't exist in James Bond world.
    And (in my opinion) M should always be the head of MI6 and not only 00-section.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Agreed, M is head of the entire service not just a section of it.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    I hate the fact that they got rid of the Vauxhall Cross building.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117

    I wouldn't mind the occasional villain knowing about it: eg, if the villain is ex secret service

    After 6 MI6 traitors in the last 8 films I think we've all had more than enough of that thanks.
  • Posts: 233
    I hate the fact that they got rid of the Vauxhall Cross building.

    It annoyed me a bit too, and I haven't seen much discussion about it here. Getting rid of the SIS HQ has drawn a very clear line between Bond's world and our own.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    I hate the fact that they got rid of the Vauxhall Cross building.

    It annoyed me a bit too, and I haven't seen much discussion about it here. Getting rid of the SIS HQ has drawn a very clear line between Bond's world and our own.

    I know what you mean but it's not that big a deal. Just go back to random shots of Big Ben like we used to.

    Or given 9 eyes went tits up will they just move them into the CGI CNS building now?
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,592
    I hate the fact that they got rid of the Vauxhall Cross building.

    It annoyed me a bit too, and I haven't seen much discussion about it here. Getting rid of the SIS HQ has drawn a very clear line between Bond's world and our own.

    I know what you mean but it's not that big a deal. Just go back to random shots of Big Ben like we used to.

    Or given 9 eyes went tits up will they just move them into the CGI CNS building now?
    It will be the HM Treasury building, shown in Spectre. That's what I assume, anyway.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    jake24 wrote: »
    I hate the fact that they got rid of the Vauxhall Cross building.

    It annoyed me a bit too, and I haven't seen much discussion about it here. Getting rid of the SIS HQ has drawn a very clear line between Bond's world and our own.

    I know what you mean but it's not that big a deal. Just go back to random shots of Big Ben like we used to.

    Or given 9 eyes went tits up will they just move them into the CGI CNS building now?
    It will be the HM Treasury building, shown in Spectre. That's what I assume, anyway.

    Just as long as they remember to digitally erase the MI6 building and insert the CNS building in any aerial shots of London.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Being a bit nit picky here, but I hate the CNS building, too. It really took me out the film, being familiar with London and all.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited July 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Being a bit nit picky here, but I hate the CNS building, too. It really took me out the film, being familiar with London and all.

    I agree I hated the whole thing as well. Especially given in SF there is no sign of it even being started. Nothing to fully built skyscraper in 3 years? That's pushing it, although I suppose all the foundation work could already have been done.

    Not really nitpicking. We can't just turn a blind eye to EON demolishing parts of real cities as it suits them and then never mentioning it again.

    This isn't the Marvel universe.
  • Posts: 2,341
    The 00 section has never been handled properly in the cinematic world (if you use the books as a reference)

    In the books, Bond is the senior of three (only three) 00's. 008, 0011 being the other two. 008 is mentioned in GF and a 003 is mentioned in AVTAK and 009 in SP.
    SP got one to thinking : Are Government sanctioned assassins applicable in today's world with drones and high tech surveillance? With the danger of collateral damage and civilian casualties in drone strikes, I would say there may be some relevance but a very minor concern. I don' like the idea of government sanctioned "hit men" either.( I am not a fan of drone strikes either)

    James Bond world is cinematic fantasy and they can keep the 00 agents IMO. I know that post DAD EON wants to make the world more in tune with real espionage work.

    Like everyone else I would like to see the movies stick to the three 00's of the books and I think we should meet one of them and I would love to see one as a female. Perhaps 0011 and she being the most junior of the three. they all share the same office space (I would assume each has his own cubicle tucked away in a back office at Mi6.


  • Posts: 12,837
    Librarian wrote: »
    Universal Exports should be where they're based. I liked it when the MI6 building was first used in GE, made it feel fresh and modern but yeah really the old office building would make more sense. You could have a best of both worlds scenario here. The 00 section can still be based in Universal Exports but if in one film Bond or MI6 uncover some world domination plot, when it's a global crisis, Bond and M could be whisked away to meet the head of MI6 and the minister of defence and whoever at the vauxhall building. It'd be a cool way of showing the stakes were raised and it'd give the films real world credibility while still sticking to their roots with the universal export building.

    But MI6 building at Vauxhall Cross was blown up in Spectre and now doesn't exist in James Bond world.
    And (in my opinion) M should always be the head of MI6 and not only 00-section.

    Once Craig leaves I expect we'll get some sort of reboot so the building being destroyed won't matter. And whether he stays or not I highly doubt we're ever going to see the CGI Nine Eyes building again. Expect this stuff to be ignored.

    And I don't see why M has to be the head of all of MI6 rather than a certain division (not just the 00s but some sort of special ops division). It'd make the close relationship with Bond more believeable if he didn't have the whole of the service to run and allow them to shift back to the old Universal Exports building (if M is the head of the whole of MI6 then it'd be hard to shift away from what's widely known as their real headquarters, especially after two decades of acknowledging it).
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    Librarian wrote: »
    Universal Exports should be where they're based. I liked it when the MI6 building was first used in GE, made it feel fresh and modern but yeah really the old office building would make more sense. You could have a best of both worlds scenario here. The 00 section can still be based in Universal Exports but if in one film Bond or MI6 uncover some world domination plot, when it's a global crisis, Bond and M could be whisked away to meet the head of MI6 and the minister of defence and whoever at the vauxhall building. It'd be a cool way of showing the stakes were raised and it'd give the films real world credibility while still sticking to their roots with the universal export building.

    But MI6 building at Vauxhall Cross was blown up in Spectre and now doesn't exist in James Bond world.
    And (in my opinion) M should always be the head of MI6 and not only 00-section.

    Once Craig leaves I expect we'll get some sort of reboot so the building being destroyed won't matter. And whether he stays or not I highly doubt we're ever going to see the CGI Nine Eyes building again. Expect this stuff to be ignored.

    And I don't see why M has to be the head of all of MI6 rather than a certain division (not just the 00s but some sort of special ops division). It'd make the close relationship with Bond more believeable if he didn't have the whole of the service to run and allow them to shift back to the old Universal Exports building (if M is the head of the whole of MI6 then it'd be hard to shift away from what's widely known as their real headquarters, especially after two decades of acknowledging it).

    I agree, but I admit it all gets jumbled. Probably the simplest is just move back into Vauxhall and keep that connection to reality.

    But then you'd loose the old office which I love. Can't have everything I guess.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    The 00 section has never been handled properly in the cinematic world (if you use the books as a reference)

    In the books, Bond is the senior of three (only three) 00's. 008, 0011 being the other two. 008 is mentioned in GF and a 003 is mentioned in AVTAK and 009 in SP.
    SP got one to thinking : Are Government sanctioned assassins applicable in today's world with drones and high tech surveillance? With the danger of collateral damage and civilian casualties in drone strikes, I would say there may be some relevance but a very minor concern. I don' like the idea of government sanctioned "hit men" either.( I am not a fan of drone strikes either)

    James Bond world is cinematic fantasy and they can keep the 00 agents IMO. I know that post DAD EON wants to make the world more in tune with real espionage work.

    Like everyone else I would like to see the movies stick to the three 00's of the books and I think we should meet one of them and I would love to see one as a female. Perhaps 0011 and she being the most junior of the three. they all share the same office space (I would assume each has his own cubicle tucked away in a back office at Mi6.


    I don't think it's correct to draw parallels between Bond and a drone strike. It's very rarely that Bond's sole mission is to kill someone. More often it's to investigate shady goings on and out a stop to them, by force if necessary. If people get killed along the way so be it but it's hardly ever his objective.

    I think we'd be better off avoiding other 00s appearing, especially female ones as the temptation would become overwhelming for the studio and P&W (or whichever clowns replace them) to have Bond teaming up with them which would be utter shite.
  • SuperintendentSuperintendent A separate pool. For sharks, no less.
    Posts: 871
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I think in an old still from TB , one of the OOs was a woman. Very forward thinking
    for the 60s.

    During the meeting of the 00's? You can see nearly all of them, and they all are men.

    One of them is a woman. Not visible enough in the movie, though.

  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2016 Posts: 18,299
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I think in an old still from TB , one of the OOs was a woman. Very forward thinking
    for the 60s.

    During the meeting of the 00's? You can see nearly all of them, and they all are men.

    One of them is a woman. Not visible enough in the movie, though.

    Wow, I never knew that. Perhaps that was Modesty Blaise? Very forward thinking for the 1960s! But that was Bond all over, wasn't it?
  • RareJamesBondFanRareJamesBondFan Touch it. You can touch it if you want.
    Posts: 132
    Being a bit nit picky here, but I hate the CNS building, too. It really took me out the film, being familiar with London and all.

    I agree I hated the whole thing as well. Especially given in SF there is no sign of it even being started. Nothing to fully built skyscraper in 3 years? That's pushing it, although I suppose all the foundation work could already have been done.
    Not even 3 years. More like 3 weeks. Remember when Moneypenny brings Bond's "personnel affects" from Skyfall? It's not been 3 years mate.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I don't know guys. I hear Spectre Builders work very fast. Blofeld offers some
    Great incentives. ;)
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,299
    Keeping things like they were in the original Fleming Bond novels is surely the best policy of all going forward.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 233
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I think in an old still from TB , one of the OOs was a woman. Very forward thinking
    for the 60s.

    During the meeting of the 00's? You can see nearly all of them, and they all are men.

    One of them is a woman. Not visible enough in the movie, though.

    Wow, I never knew that. Perhaps that was Modesty Blaise? Very forward thinking for the 1960s! But that was Bond all over, wasn't it?

    That's news to me as well! I suppose it's not that shocking, there's quite a precedent for female intelligence operatives in the real world and sixties war films are full of them.

    EDIT: I just re-watched the scene from TB and I couldn't make out the female double-oh in a single shot. The framing on Bond is too tight.
  • Posts: 2,491
    I was just thinking of this. The 00 section is a great way to progress a story.

    You can have a Bond team-up with someone. You can have someone hate Bond, you can use someone as a character that will die in the movie for shock value, you can use the 00s as a great great way to progress a screenplay.

    I would like to see for example a movie where Bond is accused of killing 00 agents as all evidences point to him. He's on trial for it and the entire world is focused on it. Somehow Bond is saved by another 00 agent and they escape together as the other 00 agent believes him. In the end it is revealed that the other 00 agent is the one behind the murders and he framed Bond.

    By using the 00 section you get yourself a villain, a reason to put Bond in a strange situation for him, you show the friendly and colleague-ish style of Bond, you do a plot twist and you generally have a cool MI6 vs Bond vs unknown villain story.

    00s section is a blessing for the screenwriters. And you can even use the names of some 00 agents mentioned in the books (tbh I don't know if any are mentioned...are there?) for some bonus reference points.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    dragonsky wrote: »
    I was just thinking of this. The 00 section is a great way to progress a story.

    You can have a Bond team-up with someone. You can have someone hate Bond, you can use someone as a character that will die in the movie for shock value, you can use the 00s as a great great way to progress a screenplay.

    I would like to see for example a movie where Bond is accused of killing 00 agents as all evidences point to him. He's on trial for it and the entire world is focused on it. Somehow Bond is saved by another 00 agent and they escape together as the other 00 agent believes him. In the end it is revealed that the other 00 agent is the one behind the murders and he framed Bond.

    By using the 00 section you get yourself a villain, a reason to put Bond in a strange situation for him, you show the friendly and colleague-ish style of Bond, you do a plot twist and you generally have a cool MI6 vs Bond vs unknown villain story.

    00s section is a blessing for the screenwriters. And you can even use the names of some 00 agents mentioned in the books (tbh I don't know if any are mentioned...are there?) for some bonus reference points.

    I think I would be inclined to quote a certain Noel Coward when offered the role of Doctor No here.

    Things we definitely don't need going forward:

    Another MI6 traitor.

    Another plot that focuses on the trials and tribulations of MI6 (while MI6 behaves like a dysfunctional family who is protecting the country from actual bad guys?)

    Bond teaming up with an 'equal'.

    Even worse: Bond teaming up with a female 'equal' (once you say 'introducing another 00 is such a cool idea' the notion that it should be a woman to show how progressive Bond films are becomes irresistible. Before you know it Idris Elba is a villainous 00 and Bond foils him with te help of a sexy female 00. That's nothing more than the plot of a Bond game or fan fiction I'm afraid. Awful).


  • Posts: 12,837
    The whole Bond girl who's his equal concept is a really good idea imo. It's just hardly ever been well executed. I think the problem is, the writers never tend to give this category of Bond girl a personality or background outside of "agent like Bond, but a WOMAN?!". Camille was them sort of trying to amend this imo but she was just dull and there was too much going on in that film to really become invested in her subplot.

    If they got a Bond girl with the skillset of Jinx and Wai Lin, but gave them a personality and backstory on par with Severine, Natalya, Melina, etc, that's the right way of doing it.

    They came very close in 1977 with Anya, one of the best Bond girls imo, but Bach's delivery was a bit wooden at times and she eventually just became a damsel in distress anyway. But they finally managed it in 1989 with Pam. Tough, resourceful, but also an actual human being with somewhat of a backstory and a real personality (she's even somewhat flawed, like when she gets jealous at the end). That's why Pam is the best Bond's equal girl and one of the best Bond girls in general, imo. She was strong, resourceful, but also felt like a real person. Jinx, Wai Lin, Goodhead, etc, feel like cartoon characters.

    I wouldn't mind the other 00s being incorporated into the plot. One idea is that you could establish them in early office scenes (I'm thinking two others, 008 and 0011 as in the novels? Can't remember the numbers Fleming used, but anyway two others, one guy and one girl) and then when the stakes are raised and Bond discovers a world domination plot (either in the film they're introduced or in a later film), him and the other 00s are sent to sabotage the villains base to make way for ground troops to get in. The other 00s being called in would be a great way to show that the stakes are really high. Maybe 008, Bond's rival in the office, actually ends up sacrificing himself to save Bond in a nice emotional moment during the battle, angering Bond and spurring him into a final confronation with the villain. Just ideas, but there's a lot of cool stuff you could do with it imo.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    The whole Bond girl who's his equal concept is a really good idea imo. It's just hardly ever been well executed. I think the problem is, the writers never tend to give this category of Bond girl a personality or background outside of "agent like Bond, but a WOMAN?!". Camille was them sort of trying to amend this imo but she was just dull and there was too much going on in that film to really become invested in her subplot.

    If they got a Bond girl with the skillset of Jinx and Wai Lin, but gave them a personality and backstory on par with Severine, Natalya, Melina, etc, that's the right way of doing it.

    They came very close in 1977 with Anya, one of the best Bond girls imo, but Bach's delivery was a bit wooden at times and she eventually just became a damsel in distress anyway. But they finally managed it in 1989 with Pam. Tough, resourceful, but also an actual human being with somewhat of a backstory and a real personality (she's even somewhat flawed, like when she gets jealous at the end). That's why Pam is the best Bond's equal girl and one of the best Bond girls in general, imo. She was strong, resourceful, but also felt like a real person. Jinx, Wai Lin, Goodhead, etc, feel like cartoon characters.

    I wouldn't mind the other 00s being incorporated into the plot. One idea is that you could establish them in early office scenes (I'm thinking two others, 008 and 0011 as in the novels? Can't remember the numbers Fleming used, but anyway two others, one guy and one girl) and then when the stakes are raised and Bond discovers a world domination plot (either in the film they're introduced or in a later film), him and the other 00s are sent to sabotage the villains base to make way for ground troops to get in. The other 00s being called in would be a great way to show that the stakes are really high. Maybe 008, Bond's rival in the office, actually ends up sacrificing himself to save Bond in a nice emotional moment during the battle, angering Bond and spurring him into a final confronation with the villain. Just ideas, but there's a lot of cool stuff you could do with it imo.

    Disagree entirely.

    What's the best moment in the franchise? When Bond puts on his skis and with the whole of SPECTRE on his back and only has his own wits, courage and the skiing technique Hannes Oberhauser taught him to save himself and the world. Barry cranks up the music to 11 and we have a moment of Bondian perfection. If we had a male and female 00 tagging along it would be awful.

    Bond is the man who is a silhouette and works best on his own.

    His attitude is summed up early on in CR when Fleming writes 'Bond was not amused. 'What the hell do they want to send me a woman for? he said bitterly.'

    The best Bond girls (Tania, Tracy, Natalya, Vesper) combine female sensuality and vulnerability with being Bond's equal in other areas. When the Bond girl can kill the villains as easily as Bond he becomes redundant.

    At the end of the day Bond stories are very traditional George v the dragon, saving the damsel style tales. Once you start overcomplicating things you end up with... well MI and Simon Pegg's 'hilarious' comic relief.

    But I know I'm an old git and it's really interesting and cool to have team MI6 popping every minute and all the 00s joining in with Bond so I'll just skulk back to my Fleming books.
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