Metal Gear Solid (1987 - present)

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  • When they rolled the one armed guy over and we saw his bearded face and covered eye, I admit I thought of Big Boss right away-- but if I didn't already have 'Metal Gear' on the brain I doubt I would have made the connection.

    Looks like an interesting game either way though! :-bd
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    It does look interesting - It looks awesome, in fact! And, if Kojima is involved in anyway, the man is a master of deception, and this could very well be a trailer for another game, completely unrelated to Metal Gear, but he'd be using Metal Gear character models to ease us into it (that would explain the giant worm monster).

    The closest thing running through my mind when I saw it was Silent Hill, though, and Konami's president did ask Kojima if he would consider taking the reigns for the next Silent Hill. Could this be a Kojima-directed Silent Hill?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited December 2012 Posts: 11,139
    *cough*


    5a6yW.jpg
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    That's...

    Okay, I see no image.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited December 2012 Posts: 11,139
    How about now?





    5a6yW.jpg

    "From "FOX", two phantoms were born"
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    edited December 2012 Posts: 7,854
    Oh, this image, I see. Yes, that image was brought to mind (after looking at so many other websites that are running this story; seriously, it's so wide-spread that I'd be surprised if we didn't hear something about it in the next couple days).

    From "FOX," two phantoms were born

    Back when Ground Zeroes was announced, we all assumed that this could mean only one thing: The Twin Snakes (Solid and Liquid, not the abysmal remake of MGS1). If (and I stress if) The Phantom Pain is indeed Metal Gear related (and there's oh so much evidence to support this), this would fit into the statement a few ways:

    1) If this is a Metal Gear game, it's running on the FOX Engine (and I'll tell you, this looks a lot like the FOX Engine). Meaning, that from the FOX Engine, both Ground Zeroes (phantom 1) and The Phantom Pain (phantom 2) were created.
    2) Since the bottom of the Moby Dick Studio website says that it's coming out on current consoles, we could very well have two pre-MGS5 games (two "phantoms")
    3) The word phantom is used in both the poster and the title.

    Now, let's look at the evidence that this is a Metal Gear game:

    - The main character looks like exactly like Big Boss from the Ground Zeroes trailer (some website actually compared the two, but I forget which one).
    - Assuming this is gameplay (and I think it is), the gameplay itself looks similar to Metal Gear, look at the way Bandage Face is crouch-walking, it's almost the exact same animation as when Snake crouch-walks in MGS4.
    - At one point, a man who looks a whole helluva lot like Volgin from MGS3 shows up.
    - I think Xbox360achievements.org pointed out that the woman riding the flaming horse (or unicorn) looks like The Boss (who rode a horse).
    - At the end of the trailer, after the title card shows up, Maybe-Snake looks up at the soldier standing over him, and behind that soldier is a figure that looks an awful lot like Psycho Mantis (or the Slender Man). He shows up for a couple fractions of a second, though, so he can be tough to see (I had to watch it three times to even notice him).
    - IGN did a search on the Moby Dick Studio website, and not only are the founders of said site completely covered up, (I learned the next part from the Metal Gear Wiki) the website has only existed for six days.
    - The company's founder is Joakim Mogren, which I guess is a common Swedish name, but take a closer look at it: Joakim = J-O-A-K-I-M. A familiar name holds those exact same letters. Kojima. Mogren contains the word ogre, and Kojima has already stated that he's working on something called Project Ogre, and that Project Ogre isn't Ground Zeroes. I don't think he ever said it wasn't Metal Gear related.
    - The doctor standing above Maybe-Snake looks like Kio Marv from Metal Gear 2, our problem being that he only spoke Czech, and not English.
    - The flower petals at the beginning, as Maybe-Snake examines his hook, resemble the ones from MGS3.

    As I said, all of this evidence makes me think that some sort of announcement will be made by Kojima, Konami or Kojima Productions regarding whether or not this truly is MGS5. And I will probably sh*t my pants if I find out this isn't a Metal Gear game in some way.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @Agent007391, great detective work! It truly seems like it must be, and I will be shocked if it isn't. But Kojima is a clever devil, so you never know. ;)
  • Very interesting indeed- perhaps our one armed friend is an early Big Boss clone that was damaged?
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Apparently, David Hayter was contacted about his thoughts on the phantom pain trailer via twitter and his response was, that it made his arm hurt.
  • I found this link that points out a few things- apparently this rumor is going around like wildfire

    http://www.nowgamer.com/features/1714319/is_phantom_pain_actually_metal_gear_solid_5_all_evidence_examined.html
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    apparently this rumor is going around like wildfire

    Wildfire hell, this is a full blown plague!
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    The evidence presented is quite compelling, but at this time I don't know what to think really. I am at the point were I am stuck thinking that original Ground Zeroes trailer is MGS5..but with this new trailer.....the connection could very well be linked. I gotta give this some time and some more views because quite frankly This could be some of Kojima's Metal Gear gold starring me in the face!!!!!


    Graphically the trailer is sharp as hell!!
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Check out Joakim Mogren's Twitter. He's all but shouting (though misdirection) that he's Kojima.

    https://twitter.com/JNMogren
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 4,813
    At this point it isn't a question of 'could this be a MGS game'- but rather 'how can this NOT be a MGS game'!!

    My biggest question: is there any chance in the world that the one armed man is indeed Big Boss? You know, after he was taken and his tissue stolen to make the clones? It seems like this could be 'that' untold story- the only thing that makes me not so sure is
    in the epilogue of MGS4, Big Boss shows up and he appears to have both arms, just fine. But then again, we haven't seen him since Peace Walker, and since MGS4 is in the near future; it could be a fancy prosthetic.....
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Okay, let's trace this.

    The current arc of Big Boss games is:

    MGS3 - 1964
    MPO - 1970
    MPW - 1974
    MGSG0 - ????
    MGS5 - ????
    MG1 - 1995
    MG2 - 1999
    MGS4 - 2014

    The Les Enfants Terribles project was in 1972. Assuming Zero stole Big Boss's entire arm (why the hell would he do that?), how did he get it back in the two years between LET and MPW?

    This trailer doesn't happen before MPW, there's the evidence.

    There's no record (that I know of) of Big Boss losing any limbs between MPW and MG1. After MG1, thanks to Solid Snake, Big Boss lost both arms, both legs and suffered severe damage to his torso and had to be put into Dr. Madnar's Snatcher program (hilariously, this is canon). Now... I don't think this takes place after MG1, either, so we're kinda f*cked there.

    There's a possibility running around the internet that this trailer may be a Psycho Mantis-induced hallucination. At the end of the trailer, a woman says one of two things:

    "V has come too."
    "He has come to."

    Now, I can't exactly tell which she says, but I honestly think she says "V has come too."

    These two videos spell out what shows us that this is MGS5.


  • Wouldn't it be funny if Kojima had no idea where to take the next game, and just posted the most random, cryptic stuff (Phantom Pain) and reads what we all write in the comment section? So as a result, WE write MGS5. :))
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I don't know. Much as I'd love to write anything based in the world of Metal Gear (I'm currently working on novelizing the MGS Radio Drama that came out after MGS1), I don't think I could produce anything that would be on par with what Kojima and his team can put together.
  • I thought Ground Zeroes was MGS 5?

    Anyway, I watched the trailer and even though I'm not really a fan of the series, I think the evidence you lot have pointed out pretty much confirms that this is a Metal Gear game.
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    I thought Ground Zeroes was MGS 5?

    Ground Zeroes is the "prologue to MGS5", as Kojima/Joakim puts it. (Honestly, was he actually trying to hide it?)

    Speaking of:

    Joakim Mogren
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    Hideo Kojima
    Kojima_Hideo.jpg
  • lol! I haven't seen this 'Joakim Mogren' yet. Well I guess that settles it!
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Whenever I see those two images together, I always laugh and wonder, "C'mon, Kojima, why don't you just say it already? You don't see George Lucas going around as Sulac Orggee, do you?"
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    Now I am really confused...if the character in this new trailer is Big Boss, I have never heard or read anything about him losing body parts (Only be Snake).

    I need some more information!!! Lets go Kojima!!!!
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    Now I am really confused...if the character in this new trailer is Big Boss, I have never heard or read anything about him losing body parts (Only be Snake).

    I need some more information!!! Lets go Kojima!!!!

    Play Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake and call Kassler during the Big Boss fight. He'll tell you that, after Outer Heaven, Big Boss lost both arms, both legs, his right eye (no sh*t, Sherlock, that happened in 1964) and his right ear, and that Dr. Drago Petrovich Madnar gave him back (at the very least) his arms, legs and ear (he's still wearing the eye patch in MG2, but this could just be a status thing, or something he's used to).

    Also,
    in the epilogue of MGS4, Big Boss shows up and he appears to have both arms, just fine. But then again, we haven't seen him since Peace Walker, and since MGS4 is in the near future; it could be a fancy prosthetic.....

    @Master_Dahark, I forgot to bring this up earlier, Big Boss in MGS4 is physically made up of parts from Liquid and Solidus (who I'll assume the majority was taken from, considering the man's a near-fleshless husk), and Liquid didn't lose his left arm (something a lot of people seem to forget when coming up with these "Liquid's the Snake in Phantom Pain trailer" theories). Also, the last time we saw Big Boss before MGS4 is Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. Don't forget the MSX/2 games, they're still canon.
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    Yeah I have read that before about Big Boss losing parts....but what I am struggling with the most is having two trailers that I cant put together. In the Ground Zeroes trailer we see Chico (from MPW) in a cell. He is given a Walkman by the Burnt figure...does he have anything to do with the Phantom Trailer??
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    Posts: 7,854
    There's speculation that the burnt man (who I think is Gene from MPO) is Bandage Face from The Phantom Pain, but otherwise we're not certain if the two trailers are even of the same game. Those soldiers assaulting the hospital are wearing the same outfits and carrying the same weapons as the XOF soldiers from the Ground Zeroes trailer, however.
  • edited December 2012 Posts: 4,813
    I am curious as to when Ground Zeroes and Phantom Pain take place? My current guess is that the one armed man is Big Boss- and Phantom Pain is set soon after something goes horribly wrong in Ground Zeroes. But this is just speculation
    @Master_Dahark, I forgot to bring this up earlier, Big Boss in MGS4 is physically made up of parts from Liquid and Solidus (who I'll assume the majority was taken from, considering the man's a near-fleshless husk), and Liquid didn't lose his left arm (something a lot of people seem to forget when coming up with these "Liquid's the Snake in Phantom Pain trailer" theories). Also, the last time we saw Big Boss before MGS4 is Metal Gear 2: Solid Snake. Don't forget the MSX/2 games, they're still canon.
    Thanks for that Agent! I had no idea about Big Boss. I don't suppose anyone could give me the 'short' version of what happens in Metal Gear 1 & 2? They are the ones I practically haven't even touched. Supposedly Snake defeats Big Boss in MG2- and I've heard rumors that 'Phantom Pain' could be how Big Boss ends up after that


    *Edit- I recently replayed MGS2 and nearly had a lump in my throat at this part

    3342404_o.gif

    I blame the awesome music :D
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    . I don't suppose anyone could give me the 'short' version of what happens in Metal Gear 1 & 2? They are the ones I practically haven't even touched. Supposedly Snake defeats Big Boss in MG2- and I've heard rumors that 'Phantom Pain' could be how Big Boss ends up after that


    *Edit- I recently replayed MGS2 and nearly had a lump in my throat at this part

    3342404_o.gif

    I blame the awesome music :D


    Honestly your best bit is to watch the games on youtube....people have posted the story line and game play for quick viewing. The above screen from MGS2 is one of the best scenes in the entire franchise!!!
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    *Edit- I recently replayed MGS2 and nearly had a lump in my throat at this part

    3342404_o.gif

    I blame the awesome music :D
    This scene inspired the friendship of my characters Bruce and Rylus in my Bruce Murdock series. :D
  • Agent007391Agent007391 Up, Up, Down, Down, Left, Right, Left, Right, B, A, Start
    edited December 2012 Posts: 7,854
    Metal Gear 1:

    In 1995, FOXHOUND receives intelligence that the mercenary nation of Outer Heaven has some sort of secret weapon that will change the balance of power in the world. Commanding officer Big Boss (you know the one) sends in his top agent, Gray Fox, to discover what it is. A few days later, he sends back one message - "Metal Gear...", and then nothing is heard from him again.

    The US top brass orders Big Boss to send in another operative. Big Boss chooses new recruit Solid Snake (you know the one), his own son. Snake gets inside the base, and makes contact with Gray Fox, who tells him that Metal Gear is a nuclear equipped walking tank, and that the only known model is in Outer Heaven (or, as the Metal Gear Abridged version puts it, "It's a weapon that's been around since the 70s, but the last weapon to go by that name was a cluster missile attached to a heaping pile of bullsh*t" aka Portable Ops' ICBMG and Metal Gear RAXA).

    Snake is tasked by Gray Fox to find Metal Gear's creator, Doctor Drago Pettrovich Madnar, who is being held in one of Outer Heaven's buildings. After fighting off several mercenaries (Shotmaker, Machine Gun Kid, Flame Trooper, etc...), Snake finds Dr. Madnar, who will only reveal Metal Gear's secret weakness if Snake rescues his daugther Ellen. After finding Ellen, Snake returns to Madnar, who tells him that if he places C4 at Metal Gear's feet in a specific sequence, Metal Gear will be destroyed.

    Along the way, Snake makes contact with several resistance members - Schneider, Jennifer, Steve (who is so unimportant, I almost forgot about him) - who all provide Snake with information. As Snake nears Metal Gear, Schneider calls him over the radio and almost tells him the name of Outer Heaven's commanding officer, but he's captured before he can. Once Snake rescues him, he reveals it: Big Boss (you know the one).

    Snake finally reaches Metal Gear's hangar, which is not yet operational. It is guarded by two laser cameras, which provide so little security it's amazing that they were even installed (to Big Boss's credit, the damn hangar is 100 stories below ground and he expected Snake to be long since dead, "Cutbacks have to be made!"). Snake uses Madnar's information and puts a stop to the threat that is Metal Gear. Game over, the end, that's it, right?

    Wrong. Big Boss goads Snake into the next room, where he reveals his master plan (which, I'm pretty sure amounts to "It is I, Big Boss. I was the commander of both FOXHOUND and Outer Heaven. You were not meant to make it this far, but you won't make it out of here alive, Snake!") and then starts shooting at Snake, who takes pot shots at Big Boss with a rocket launcher. Big Boss goes up in flames (which take out his legs, arms and his right ear), and Snake makes his way up a ladder and out to freedom while Outer Heaven explodes and NATO bombs the hell out of the place. Game over. The end. That's it.

    Right?

    Wrong. Big Boss, somehow still alive, lets it be known to no one but himself that he's still alive, and he's not done yet.

    Metal Gear 2:

    1999. FOXHOUND is under new management from ex-Green Beret Colonel Roy Campbell. The world is finally headed for peace in the form of nuclear disarmament. A Czech scientist, Kio Marv, has found a solution to the oil crisis. OILIX, a new micro organism and completely synthetic, is being called the miracle cure for the world.

    In the midst of all this, a new mercenary nation arises in a piece of the former Soviet Union, in a place once called Tselinoyarsk. Zanzibarland. Fighting battles on all sides from Afghanistan, Russia and China, Zanzibarland announces its military superiority with the help of a new form of Metal Gear. Using this weapon, and their new force, Zanzibarland captures Dr. Marv.

    Colonel Campbell calls up Solid Snake (you know the - aw, f*ck it, that joke's getting old), and asks him to go into Zanzibarland and retrieve Dr. Marv. He arrives and makes contact with CIA agent/reporter Holly White, who has been inside the military nation for some time. She helps him around, giving him information on the traps that have been set almost specifically for Snake, as if someone knew he'd be there...

    Snake finds Dr. Marv, thanks to the microtransmitter in the good doctor's tooth, but it turns out to be one of Zanzibarland's elite mercenaries - Black Ninja (formerly Black Color, a reference to the Timothy Zahn novel Blackcollar). After defeating Ninja, the merc reveals himself to be former Outer Heaven resistance member Schneider, who only survived the NATO bombing with the help of someone Snake knows and fears - Big Boss. Snake's horrified to learn this, but he's not all that surprised.

    Using Schneider's information, Snake follows a Zanzibarland soldier in a green beret (get it? A "Green Beret"? Yeah, it was a sh*tty joke) and finds a building in the middle of the jungle where he hears a strange tapping. Using old FOXHOUND knowledge (the instruction booklet), Snake decodes the tapping and finds a radio frequency. On the other side of that frequency is Dr. Madnar, the creator of Outer Heaven's Metal Gear TX-55. He says he that he too was kidnapped by Zanzibarland's mercs and forced to create a new model of Metal Gear, Metal Gear D.

    Unable to rescue Dr. Madnar at this time, Snake continues on. He meets more Zanzibarland mercs (Running Man and Red Blaster), then takes out a Russian Hind D and makes it to the Tower Building. On the tower's roof, Snake finds a bird with a note tied around it. The note has Dr. Marv's radio frequency, but when Snake contacts him, all he gets is a panicked man talking in Czech. He calls Dr. Madnar, who tells him that Dr. Marv had a body guard - a woman named Gustava Hefner.

    The only problem there is with contacting Gustava is that she's disguised as a guard. Snake is told to meet her in a place that only a woman would go to. Using his powers of deductive reasoning, Snake follows her into the women's restroom, where she's allowed to make contact with Dr. Marv using Snake's radio. Marv lets her know that he's okay so far, but he's sure they'll kill him soon. Snake and Gustava make their way toward the last base and rescue Dr. Madnar along the way.

    The threesome comes to a very thin, probably rickety bridge. Madnar crosses first, but as Gustava is about to follow him, a lone missile destroys the bridge and mortally wounds Gustava, Dr. Madnar is recaptured. The source of the missile is revealed to be Metal Gear D, piloted by former FOXHOUND member Gray Fox, who's joined Big Boss's cause because he's tired of how soldiers are treated as expendable by the top brass. He extends to Snake the offer of joining them, but Snake flatly refuses and vows to kill Gray Fox. Just before she dies, Gustava gives Snake a broach, implying that it's important.

    Thanks to Holly's knowledge of the base, Snake finds a hang glider and decides to use it to cross the canyon that the bridge once crossed. On his way to the Tower Building's out door walkway, the elevator is hijacked by Gray Fox, who once again gives Snake the offer to join them. When Snake once again refuses, Fox unleashes a group of soldiers known as the Four Horsemen, all former special forces members. Snake narrowly defeats them and makes it across the canyon.

    Once on the other side, Snake takes down Jungle Evil (formerly known by his better name of "Predator") and finds two eggs. One of them is a snake which proceeds to eat all of his rations (but he stops it), and the other is an owl. Using the owl to make it past a locked gate (the guards only open the gate when an owl hoots), Snake enters a room where he's silently stalked by Night Fright, who's wearing a form of stealth camouflage. Thankfully, his footsteps still make noises on different floors, so Snake uses the floor to triangulate his position and put an end to him.

    After dealing with Night Fright, Snake finds Doctors Marv and Madnar, but Marv is dead. Madnar is acting suspicious, however, and a crucial piece of information from Holly clues Snake in. After Outer Heaven, Madnar was discredited among the scientific community. The only place he had to turn to after losing everything was Big Boss and Zanzibarland. Madnar attacks Snake, but thanks to some remote controlled rockets and landmines, Madnar is knocked out of commission (note: not killed). After retrieving the OILIX plans from Marv's locker, the floor opens up beneath him and Snake finds himself in Metal Gear D's hangar.

    Gray Fox is once again at the controls, but once again Madnar has come through: just before Snake dropped in, the good doctor told Snake that D's weakness was the poor armor on its legs. Using grenades, Snake destroys the D, but this sets both him and his equipment on fire. Discarding all of his equipment, Snake engages in a fist fight with the still very much alive Gray Fox, but Fox has picked his battlefield well - a minefield. Using every last ounce of his strength, Snake defeats Gray Fox, who reveals in his last moments that he had once loved Gustava, and had been helping Snake every step of the way.

    Snake has but one more enemy to face: Big Boss. With no weapons, Snake is forced to run for a little while until he finds just the right components - a lighter and some hairspray. Using this makeshift flamethrower, he puts the old man out of commission one last time.

    As Snake makes his way out, he runs into Holly. She gives him a gun, and then they make their way outside. Snake manages to run out of ammo just as a group of enemy soldiers surround them, but the two are saved by a FOXHOUND helicopter pilot who arrives just in the nick of time.

    After giving the OILIX formula to Colonel Campbell, Snake retreats to Alaska, the closest he gets to peace.

    You people are damned lucky I've played this series so much and remember all of this.
  • Just finished watching the 'cutscenes' of Metal Gear and Metal Gear 2 on youtube, so now I'm more or less caught up. You know, with the established love everyone now has for Big Boss, I found it strange to see him as the bad guy. We need a game to really show what went down- a remake of these old games is in order! Just imagine, playing as young Solid Snake and having to fight Big Boss!! BOTH voiced by David Hayter. Hopefully MGS5 will answer some questions

    *BTW as Bond fans, did anyone else find it hilarious that they simply drew an eyepatch over a picture of Sean Connery for Big Boss? :))

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