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The Man With The Golden Gun vs. Licence to Kill vs. Tomorrow Never Dies vs. Quantum of Solace
As we all know there are certain trends and patterns that have reoccured throughtout the Bond franchise's 49 year history. One such example is an actor's 3rd film being their defining performance that firmly sets them both in the role and in their prime. Connery had Goldfinger, Moore had The Spy Who Loved Me and had Dalton done Goldeneye I believe there was a strong chance it would've been his best film. Not to mention the script for Craig's thrid film is supposidly fantastic. Brosnan and company ruined this ofcourse with TWINE but I still consider this to be an unofficial rule. Much like the previous stated "3rd time is the charm" rule there is another less mentioned one. That being each actor's second outing as Bond will either dissapoint critically, dissapoint finacially, do both, or simply not be up to par with the actor's debut film. It's almost as if the filmmakers are riding on such a high after they successfully debut a new Bond that they gey lazy when it comes to the next film. This has happened to every actor except Sean Connery. That's why I ommited FRWL from the list. I think we can all agree that it would win hands down.
In any event please rank your 4 Bond sopohmore outings from best to worst. Mine are as follows.
1)Licence to Kill- This is the one and only second Bond film (again excluding FRWL) that I enjoyed more than the first out of the 4. Although I seem to be in the minority there as LTK was not as well recieved as Dalton's debut critically or financially. However the strength in LTK is that it plays to Dalton's strengths as an actor. Afterall TLD in certain sections still felt like they couldn't forget Roger Moore. Even though LTK has a smaller budget and looks cheap in areas it boasts a better script, better acting, and a much better villan than TLD.
2)Quantum of Solace- I honestly don't understand all the hate this film gets on this site. Was it as good as CR? Not even close. Did it feel rushed? Yes. But truthfully what were the odds that it was gonna live up to CR with the writer's strike and an unexperienced director helming it? It's still one hell of an action movie that continues the excellent story-arc started in CR and a good performance by Daniel Craig. I'll take QOS over Brosnan's last 3 films anyday and honestly after rewatching Goldeneye again I'd rank them as about even. Atleast Craig is interesting as Bond.
3)The Man With The Golden Gun- This just barely nudges out TND. This is just a bizarre Bond film. It seemed with the 70s starting with DAF onwards Bond was having an identity crisis and wouldn't solve that problem until TSWLM. TMWTGG has John Barry's weakest score, a strange sense of homur, pretty weak action, and an inconsistant performance by Moore. It seems like he established his persona in LALD, forgot about it, and then got it back for TSWLM. What saves this film is Christopher Lee as Scaramanga. Till this day he's one of my favorite Bond villans as he's Bond's equal mentally and physically rather than an old man in a chair pressing buttons. It's poor box office performance nearly killed the franchise. Similar to LTK, another sopohomore Bond film.
4)Tommorrow Never Dies- This movie fails on almost all levels. It's got one of the worst Bond girls in Paris Carver, one of the worst Bond songs, a pitiful villian, a smarky performance by Brosnan, a rehashed plot, and Bond turning into Rambo at the end of the film. People say the same about Craig with QOS but Craig's Bond wasn't double-weilding a machine in one hand and his walther in the other taking out a small army on a submarine. And atleast Craig looks like he can kick someone's ass. Brosnan looks flat-out ridicuous as an action hero.
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In any event please rank your 4 Bond sopohmore outings from best to worst. Mine are as follows.
1)Licence to Kill- This is the one and only second Bond film (again excluding FRWL) that I enjoyed more than the first out of the 4. Although I seem to be in the minority there as LTK was not as well recieved as Dalton's debut critically or financially. However the strength in LTK is that it plays to Dalton's strengths as an actor. Afterall TLD in certain sections still felt like they couldn't forget Roger Moore. Even though LTK has a smaller budget and looks cheap in areas it boasts a better script, better acting, and a much better villan than TLD.
2)Quantum of Solace- I honestly don't understand all the hate this film gets on this site. Was it as good as CR? Not even close. Did it feel rushed? Yes. But truthfully what were the odds that it was gonna live up to CR with the writer's strike and an unexperienced director helming it? It's still one hell of an action movie that continues the excellent story-arc started in CR and a good performance by Daniel Craig. I'll take QOS over Brosnan's last 3 films anyday and honestly after rewatching Goldeneye again I'd rank them as about even. Atleast Craig is interesting as Bond.
3)The Man With The Golden Gun- This just barely nudges out TND. This is just a bizarre Bond film. It seemed with the 70s starting with DAF onwards Bond was having an identity crisis and wouldn't solve that problem until TSWLM. TMWTGG has John Barry's weakest score, a strange sense of homur, pretty weak action, and an inconsistant performance by Moore. It seems like he established his persona in LALD, forgot about it, and then got it back for TSWLM. What saves this film is Christopher Lee as Scaramanga. Till this day he's one of my favorite Bond villans as he's Bond's equal mentally and physically rather than an old man in a chair pressing buttons. It's poor box office performance nearly killed the franchise. Similar to LTK, another sopohomore Bond film.
4)Tommorrow Never Dies- This movie fails on almost all levels. It's got one of the worst Bond girls in Paris Carver, one of the worst Bond songs, a pitiful villian, a smarky performance by Brosnan, a rehashed plot, and Bond turning into Rambo at the end of the film. People say the same about Craig with QOS but Craig's Bond wasn't double-weilding a machine in one hand and his walther in the other taking out a small army on a submarine. And atleast Craig looks like he can kick someone's ass. Brosnan looks flat-out ridicuous as an action hero.
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Comments
#1 TMWTGG - Did a complete run down of this personally a few days ago, put everything down about the good and bad points, no need to go over old ground. I still insist Live And Let Die was my favorite Moore adventure, but his second takes 1st place here, some people berate this release, i.e. it's boring, lifeless etc, but I seem to disagree, there's a lot to get involved in, plenty of action, a catchy Lulu theme tune and Lee makes for a fun bad guy, also Clifton James returns and there's always mayhem when he's on the screen
2 LTK - Will always insist that Daylights was Dalton's best adventure, here it's a bit limited, we saw the resignation from M16 before in OHMSS, even though it was brief, but here Timmy just goes between the Florida Keys and Mexico and all other locations go by the wayside, I did find it a bit dull in places, Davi makes for a great bad guy, but girls Soto and Lowell did OK, a big improvement on what came immediately before in any event (Bond girls not movie)
3 QOS - More Craig second outing berating I'm afraid, justified or not. I'll at least save it from last place as maybe I was a little hard on it, but I am adamant I saw this film and was far from impressed, horrible, horrible music (theme intro), dull pre credits sequence, and all I remember is I just didn't like what I was seeing and never went back, maybe after 3 years I'll watch again when the time is right, why not, but don't know if I'll have a change of heart, Craig does work as Bond sometimes, but the sum total of his second entry just left me frustrated and wanting a refund
4 TND - If LTK was dull in places then Tomorrow Never Dies could be best described as a narcoleptics dream, I said I almost dropped off in theaters when I first saw this and was not exaggerating, as soon as Bond leaves Hamburg for the far east, things just go downhill for me and it's a struggle to stay awake. I didn't need to see the re-appearance of the Jack Wade character, and Johnathan Pryce, despite a few droll quips isin't nearly nasty enough, and Hatcher was a pretty banal Bond girl, I was more impressed by that Doctor who killed her in the hotel room although he didn't last long. Brosnans best Bond was TWINE, and here despite a fun teaser, good Sheryl Crow tune and Michelle Yeoh stealing some scenes there isin't much to see, last place for this.
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(2) License to Kill: I find the darker-toned theme to be very fitting for Dalton's second, and once again, I think it is a little too harshly judged. Sanchez is a great main villain, and his henchmen, while not being memorable like him, are vast in number, making it very entertaining to watch Bond and Sanchez cut them down one by one. I will agree however about the locations; they certainley aren't Bond-ish.
(3) The Man with the Golden Gun: Despite its obvious weak points, it does carry on through with memorable villains, a top-notch performance by Roger Moore, and great locations.
(4) Quantum of Solace: Definitely a disappointment, with a wasted plot, pathetic characters, and short screentime. The only redeeming quality is the heavy concentration on action.
Anyway could someone add a poll for favorite second Bond film with the 4 mentioned films in it. That being TMWTGG, LTK, TND, and QOS. I'd appreciate it.
1. From Russia With Love (Classic in every way, and I never find it boring or dragging like so do. Robert Shaw has to be one of the best and and most worthy opponents for Connery. Also, Daniele Bianchi is one of the best.)
2. License To Kill (Dalton is awesome, and pretty much portrays a Bond that is similar to Craig's in Quantum of Solace. The only difference is, is that Dalton's ruthlessness doesn't get in the way of being suave and Bond-like, where Craig still has limitations in presenting these Bond qualities. Hence, why Quantum is at the number three spot.)
3. Quantum Of Solace (Suffers from shaky cam and a less than epic running time, but I do find this film underrated. I like the Casino Royale continuation theme, and a brooding Bond out for blood, but I wish Craig was a little more suave. Though I must say that it slightly irks me that there was no real follow-up to OHMSS concerning Bond's wife, but Vesper's death is stretched so far. Oh well...)
4. Man With The Golden Gun (Not the best Bond film, but it sure is enjoyable. Moore has one of his funniest lines with "...forever hold your piece." He's also just about as ruthless as Dalton and Craig with the bitch slaps and threats. Also, Christopher Lee is priceless as a Bond villain. I think MWTGG is also underrated.)
5. Tomorrow Never Dies (Though it is last, it is by no means a lesser film to me. I actually like this film quite a bit. This film suffers a bit from the slow-mow action scenes at the end, and the Rambo type behavior. Yet, Brosnan does seem more confident in the role, and I like the Hamburg scenes quite a bit. Outside of ex-girlfriend Carver's death, the film is last because the plot seems a little less important in terms of adding to the Bond legacy.)
Goldeneye was for the most part, what the audience wanted, had nothing to do with Brosnan being Non British, I looked easily over that, Ireland is pretty near enough UK, the scenes with Tanner and M you had to say Brosnan really looked the part as well as after captured with Natalya after the chopper escape and explosion, unfortunately for most of his four film tenure the negatives outweigh the positives, and Tomorrow Never Dies 'was' a pretty dour experience, Brosnan or otherwise
Hey John, I thought that was you. Great question, it's had me stumped all night. :)
By the way, I did put my trailer on the boards, but it was moved to fan creations or something. Thanks for checking it out.
2. LTK Not very cinematic, but Dalton is great, and I have a soft spot for the Keys...
3 TMWTGG Great Bond, great bikinis!
4 QOS Like a first shag, rushed.
Everyone probably knows how little I cared for Brosnan. Both his characterization of Bond, or lack thereof, and his childish attitude and whining after EON dropped him. He just brought nothing to the role and for four films played a caricature (Austin Powers, Our Man Flint) of James Bond rather than the character himself.
Connery invented it. Lazenby brought out a more tender and emotional side to Bond. Moore perfected the super-spy English gentleman aspect of the character. Dalton brought out the nasty brooding side Fleming wrote about. And Craig has taken the Fleming approach a bit further by even making Bond out to be a bit of a sociopath at times. He's also successfully modernized the character; something I never thought would be possible before. Brosnan was the one person who brought nothing to the table and just copied his predecessors.
2.TMWTGG - Another great villain in Scaramanga and an enjoyable film to me (#9)
3.QOS - I have been disappointed the more i watch this lately - so rushed (#12)
4.TND - Only 1 place below QOS and a brilliant 1st half before Vietnam. (#13)
Licence to Kill is an absolute favourite of mine but so is The Living Daylights. I'd say LTK is the best second Bond film (not counting From Russia with Love). Dalton's acting is top notch, so is Davi's. Tremendous fun with young Benicio Del Toro as well. Storywise it's also the strongest of the bunch with a more character driven plot.
Tomorrow Never Dies, for me, is an absolute misser. It's one of the weakest maybe even the weakest film of the franchise. The plot is that of a videogame with James Bond shooting around with machine guns and losing all his subtlety. the only plus parts are the title sequence and Pierce Brosnan who actually does a good job with the material that is given to him.
Quantum of Solace is flawed but it's not a bad film. A middle of the road Bond film which could have been much better if they had taken more time to tell the story. There is a lot of good material (for instance, I love the car and Palio chases at the beginning). Also, and this may be a detail to some, Giancarlo Gianninni is possibly one of the most intruiging and charming allies of the franchise.
If so,
Brosnan is the most improved from his first to his second film. In TND he seems more assured and less mannered than he did in GE.
Craig is brilliant in QoS, but he was in CR as well so he stood still as it were.
Moore likewise was very good in TMWTGG, but better than LALD? Not necessarilly.
Dalton was ok in TLD, but all over the place in LTK, so he went backwards (IMHO ;-)
2. Licence To Kill - Dalton is better
3. Quantum Of Solace - Craig is the same
4. The Man With The Golden Gun - Moore is better
5. Tomorrow Never Dies - Brosnan is better
2. Quantum of Solace - The action is great, and the storyline, though a little disjointed, is not the worst. This film's major flaw is in the editing, but aside from that it could be almost solid.
3. Licence to Kill - Enjoyable as long as you don't try too hard to think of it as a Bond film. The darker tone works for Dalton, some of the action is pretty good. The signature gun is lame, and as much as I love Desmond Llewelyn as Q, the character doesn't belong in the role he's playing here. And "I love James... so much!" makes me cringe every time.
4. From Russia with Love - I realize it's blasphemy to put this below any of the other sophomore outings. It's a well-made film, and it has arguably one of the best and most intricate plots in the series. The way the plot is only subtly changed from the book in order to make SPECTRE the enemy instead of SMERSH is brilliant. My problem with this film is that Bond is pretty much just a pawn. I watch Bond to see a man who is in charge of his circumstances, but here he's being guided throughout by M, SPECTRE, Kerim, Tania, and even Grant. He hardly makes any decisions on his own, and when he triumphs at the end you almost get the feeling he just got lucky.
5. The Man with the Golden Gun - While it might have fewer cringe-worthy moments than a Moonraker or an AVTAK, this film almost completely fails to deliver anything memorable at all. The only interesting thing here is Christopher Lee's performance, but all that succeeds in doing is making you like the villain and feel sorry for him when he's defeated.
2. Tomorrow Never Dies - I pretty much agree with Itwftw (above). It was a fun film and it reminded me of classic Bond. One of the better Bond films.
3. Quantum of Solace - Decent story but I never consider it a stand alone movie; It's Casino Royale part 2.
4. Licence to Kill - Great movie and I love Dalton's second outing as Bond, but, out of all of the Bond films, it felt the least like a Bond movie.
I part of me would like to agree with you but the other part can't completely. I wouldn't say Brosnan copied his predecessors but improved upon them. I've always felt that Brosnan was able to have alittle bit of Connery's charm and alittle bit of Moore's wit.
The only reason Lazenby brought out a more emotional side was because the role/movie called for it. I think Brosnan's Bond was the more emotional one; you really feel like he cares about the women he's with, not just trying to get into their pants.
How about bringing a deserted audience back.....? (just for starters)
If you want to compare Austin Powers to Bond, I`d say Lazenby was a good template, frilly shirt, goofy acting, and chasing anything in a skirt.... :-?
2 TMWTGG- really good moore adventure, christopher lee is awesome
3 tommorow never dies- this would have been alot better were it not for a stupid villian with a stupid evil plan
4 quantum of solace- JASON BOURNE IN...... LICENCE TO KILL!!!! thats how i saw this film. Except the villian is now a weak annoying buissness man instead of a badass drug baron with a lizard, and vesper died rather than felix being injured.
Tomorrow never Dies - a very good Brosnan in which he improves on his performance in GE. Fun and great action.
TMWTGG - just saw it and can only conclude that it is still a very entertaining down to earth spy-movie with real stunts (No CGI)
LTK - A bit of a letdown, its plot has been done far better by the TV series Maimi Vice. Without 007 it could just be a generic actioner. Rightfully overshadowed by better movies that year. Dalton is just not my cup of tea.
QoS - OMFG, but in any franchise as long sonner or later there is bound to be a total miss. This movie is a major miss. A positive note the music of Tosca was great but then EON would have been hard pressed to f*ck that up. I like Craig and hope for him that the next one is a lot better. (better than QoS is not such a big feat)
1. Quantum of Solace (8/10)
Yes, it was not as good as CR, perhaps it wasn't even that close. But the film gets a little more hate than deserved. It is a little too low key, and perhaps a tad dissonant as a Bond film as well, but QOS is not horrid as some claim. Daniel Craig is just brilliant as James Bond, Greene makes for a slimy villain, the frenetic pre-titles chase is very exciting, and even David Arnold is slightly better than his usual self. Quantum of Solace, despite its faults, is a strong film.
2. Tomorrow Never Dies (7.5/10)
I suppose everyone has to have an 'unpopular' film that is one of their favorites (or at least holds in favorable light) and Tomorrow Never Dies seems to be that one for me. Okay, it is not the most though provoking or emotionally charged Bond film produced, but that doesn't mean it takes away from the carefree fun that TND offers. Firstly, Brosnan has far improved upon his performance in GoldenEye. The first half of the film is really good; it is the second half (which exchanges story for violence) that holds TND back. But all in all, Tomorrow Never Dies is popcorn munching fun. It is not the next On Her Majesty's Secret Service, but you know what? That is okay with me.
3. License to Kill (7.5/10)
There is no question in my mind that License to Kill could have been a better film than as it currently is. That being said, I really like Dalton in the role. He's good at being mad; you can see it in his face that this 007 is pissed and he is going to make some people pay. That tanker chase at the end is also one of the best action scenes in the series. License to Kill primarily suffers from an identity crisis. You get a brutal, bloody scene of Felix being mauled by a shark, a head exploding (with bloody detail), Dario being turned into minced meat......and then the Barrelhead bar fight scene. The violence here is not off putting for me and is used effectively, but some of the films attempt at humor undermines some of the grit. The leading ladies are nothing to shake a stick at either. LTK could have been better, but isn't the worst film for Dalton to depart on.
4. The Man with the Golden Gun (4/10)
Not only is this film the worst of the bunch, The Man with the Golden Gun is the worst film of the franchise. Where do I begin? Roger Moore does not play Sean Connery well; his scene beating up Maud Adams' character is just wrong, and he is 100% unconvincing. The return of JW Pepper is one of the series' biggest mistakes, but alas, there is a bigger mistake in the film: the slide whistle. It will always be the lowest point in the 007 film franchise for me. Mary Goodnight is the most worthless Bond girl ever, and competes with Halle Berry as the worst. (And they try to pass her off as an agent herself???? Please.) TMWTGG is so lame and boring and unlike other not so good Bond films (Moonraker, Diamonds Are Forever, A View to a Kill) there is not a single scene that saves the film from the scrap heap. I suppose Lee made a fine villain in Scaramanga, but that is all the positive I can find in this mess of a Bond film.
#11 QOS- Meh. Could have been much better but there are Bond films far, far worse. It wrapped the Vesper saga and established QUANTUM as the new SPECTRE. It did what it had to do in my eyes. Now we can get ready to see a more classic portrayal.
#15 TND- Brosnan's best performance in the role, we get a much more Bondian soundtrack that actually matches the film, but GE was a better movie.
#16 TMWTGG- My second favorite performance from Sir Roger, he had to play it seriously like his life depended on it and I liked the edginess he brought. Lee and James were great as well. Unfortunately, Goodnight, peanut toting midgets, and a stupid slide whistle made it overall a so-so entry.
The series didn`t need a break, it was enforced. The series needed a solid lead actor who connected to the general audience. They got it with Brosnan.
"Safe choice"? A common missconception from Dalton fans. Brosnan hadn`t really proved himself a major star before Bond. It was far from a safe choice. At the time, people like Mel Gibson, Harrisson Ford, were being talked about. Now they would be safe choices. Infact, people outside of America had hardly heard of Brosnan, so don`t throw that one about.
And so, if we stick to your logic, we can credit Craigs success to a 4 year break?? No, I don`t think so.
Brosnan was already a fairly established actor by 1995 having been around for over 15 years and was known throughout for his work in Remington Steele before he finally took the Bond role
I grew up at a time when Bond was released in theaters nearly every year it seemed, saw a lot of actors come and go, after 1989 things went on the backfoot due to legal disputes and all, Dalton stepped down from the role a year or two before Goldeneye, Brosnan came in at last, did not too bad a job and got a cool $1,300,000 for his services, don't ask what they paid him to do Die Another Day
:O
What alot of people don't realise is that EON was never too keen on hiring Brosnan. In 1986 Brocolli only gave him a chance after Dalton was unavailable. For Goldeneye EON very much wanted Dalton to return but United Artists were against it as his film's weren't the most financially successful of the series. After Dalton resigned EON's first choice was James Purefoy as the new James Bond but again United Artists didn't want to take any chances and pushed heavily for the safest choice possible in Pierce Brosnan. As we all know money talks and aslong as United Artists were flipping the bill they were gonna get their way.
And the current 4 year hiatus isn't Daniel Craig's fault. The studio has been going through some legal problems. Craig's films are outgrossing Brosnan's so it's not a matter of losing the audience.
[1] LTK
[2] TND
[3] QOS
[4] TMWTGG
The Man With The Golden Gun (11/22)
Quantum of Solace (14/22)
Licence to Kill (15/22)