The Race to be the Next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom [Theresa May the new PM - 13 July 2016]

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Comments

  • Posts: 6,014
    stag wrote: »

    That's how the remainers think. They also think that democracy is unfair and culture is harmful.

    Well said. But I'd just like to add that to the remainers democracy is only unfair if it doesn't go their way. Had we voted to stay in the EU they would have quickly rounded on Brexiteers & told them to accept the result as democracy has spoken!

    Which i just what the Brexiters are doing right now, from what I can see. Let's face it, whatever the results, the other side would have been as angry. That's the way things are.

  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,437
    I'm a bit tired of the confrontational, blackmailing power politics of the British. It's as if the world only is about the UK at times.....and not about Europe. Although I do understand it, as it's the UK only that needs to survive by itself.

    That's because you view autonomy as selfish.

    That is a lie.

    That's how the remainers think. They also think that democracy is unfair and culture is harmful.

    Still, you uttered a lie. You imply that I view autonomy as selfish. It. Is. Not. True. I posted here to defend MANY Dutch values, to support my country The Netherlands. And frankly, that's what I ought to do now that Brexit creates uncertainty, NOT only for the UK, but especially for Dutch interests.

    You know that I support the EU yes. But many Brits in here shamelessly forget that I am VERY critical of the current EU. So what do you expect me to do as long as Netherlands still is a member of the EU and that our Dutch constitution does NOT allow a referendum on an issue like leaving the EU (A majority in the parliament first needs to agree with it). Put it like this: Netherlands is stuck with the EU for now and that won't change anytime soon. And at least the economic free trade union that the EU still is, is an aspect I radically support and defend!

    So then I only find it logical to put the Dutch interests front-center, with assistance of a drastically reformed EU. But Netherlands still is an autonomous country. And do not even dare to bring in a discussion of sovereignty, which has nothing to do with this. Make no mistake, I am firmly posting stuff in here that's foremost in the interest of The Netherlands' economy. Perhaps you find me a 'cowardish Remain-supporter' or a 'lunatic Europhile'. But I don't care.

    I care that The Netherlands urges many blue chip companies and banks to reconsider relocation of their head offices and manufacturing plants from London and elsewhere in the UK.....to either Amsterdam, Eindhoven or Rotterdam. THAT'S my interest. I favor free trade with low EU-tariffs, not the madness of IMF-bound trade tariffs that are off the scale. YOUR country has this tariff uncertainty, but WE don't! And since your PM Theresa May prefers solidifying financial uncertainty by tactically delaying the trigger of Article 50, I radically counteract such tactics and say to all companies in the UK: "You are better off in The Netherlands. We welcome you. Leave the UK!".
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Now @Mendes4Lyfe, I may have sound harsh and radical in my above statement :-). But, again, please do not lie. That's all I ask :-). You're a fine guy, but at times I think a firm opinion from my side is necessary to blast off some untrue accusations. I hope you understand ;-).

    ANP-12179075.jpg

    Its a bit like Stockholm syndrome. You cannot leave the EU, so you have chosen to love your capturer. Just kidding. ;)
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    I'm a bit tired of the confrontational, blackmailing power politics of the British. It's as if the world only is about the UK at times.....and not about Europe. Although I do understand it, as it's the UK only that needs to survive by itself.

    That's because you view autonomy as selfish.

    That is a lie.

    That's how the remainers think. They also think that democracy is unfair and culture is harmful.

    Still, you uttered a lie. You imply that I view autonomy as selfish. It. Is. Not. True. I posted here to defend MANY Dutch values, to support my country The Netherlands. And frankly, that's what I ought to do now that Brexit creates uncertainty, NOT only for the UK, but especially for Dutch interests.

    You know that I support the EU yes. But many Brits in here shamelessly forget that I am VERY critical of the current EU. So what do you expect me to do as long as Netherlands still is a member of the EU and that our Dutch constitution does NOT allow a referendum on an issue like leaving the EU (A majority in the parliament first needs to agree with it). Put it like this: Netherlands is stuck with the EU for now and that won't change anytime soon. And at least the economic free trade union that the EU still is, is an aspect I radically support and defend!

    So then I only find it logical to put the Dutch interests front-center, with assistance of a drastically reformed EU. But Netherlands still is an autonomous country. And do not even dare to bring in a discussion of sovereignty, which has nothing to do with this. Make no mistake, I am firmly posting stuff in here that's foremost in the interest of The Netherlands' economy. Perhaps you find me a 'cowardish Remain-supporter' or a 'lunatic Europhile'. But I don't care.

    I care that The Netherlands urges many blue chip companies and banks to reconsider relocation of their head offices and manufacturing plants from London and elsewhere in the UK.....to either Amsterdam, Eindhoven or Rotterdam. THAT'S my interest. I favor free trade with low EU-tariffs, not the madness of IMF-bound trade tariffs that are off the scale. YOUR country has this tariff uncertainty, but WE don't! And since your PM Theresa May prefers solidifying financial uncertainty by tactically delaying the trigger of Article 50, I radically counteract such tactics and say to all companies in the UK: "You are better off in The Netherlands. We welcome you. Leave the UK!".
    .
    .
    .
    .
    .
    Now @Mendes4Lyfe, I may have sound harsh and radical in my above statement :-). But, again, please do not lie. That's all I ask :-). You're a fine guy, but at times I think a firm opinion from my side is necessary to blast off some untrue accusations. I hope you understand ;-).

    ANP-12179075.jpg

    Its a bit like Stockholm syndrome. You cannot leave the EU, so you have chosen to love your capturer. Just kidding. ;)

    I should put you across my knee and hit your bottom! :)
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    many Brits in here shamelessly forget that I am VERY critical of the current EU.

    =))

    Air crash investigation just called. They say they've been over all your posts with a fine tooth comb but couldn't find anything that could be called 'critical'.

  • many Brits in here shamelessly forget that I am VERY critical of the current EU.

    =))

    Air crash investigation just called. They say they've been over all your posts with a fine tooth comb but couldn't find anything that could be called 'critical'.

    Not everybody can be as critical as you, dear Wiz. You have a rare talent, use it carefully!
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited July 2016 Posts: 13,999
    I'm a bit tired of the confrontational, blackmailing power politics of the British. It's as if the world only is about the UK at times.....and not about Europe. Although I do understand it, as it's the UK only that needs to survive by itself.

    In this instance, leaving the EU is all about the UK.
  • Posts: 11,119
    many Brits in here shamelessly forget that I am VERY critical of the current EU.

    =))

    Air crash investigation just called. They say they've been over all your posts with a fine tooth comb but couldn't find anything that could be called 'critical'.

    You are a liar. Again. It's becoming tiresome GrandWizard:
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Very true is this the start of a European implosion I wonder ?....

    An implosion of the EU's own making. My views on Europe have changed dramatically over the last 10 years.


    I have to agree with that. I am also angry how European politicians behave these days. Men like Juncker, Schultz and Tusk need to talk with all the citizens of the EU. The worried citizens. Because our middle class is being destroyed in a fast rate. A middle class destruction, that reminds me of the 1920's and 1930's.

    So indeed, European politicians forcefully need to say: "Dear people, we are sorry that we didn't listen to you!" It needs to be the driving force of upcoming summits about the future of the EU.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited July 2016 Posts: 9,117
    many Brits in here shamelessly forget that I am VERY critical of the current EU.

    =))

    Air crash investigation just called. They say they've been over all your posts with a fine tooth comb but couldn't find anything that could be called 'critical'.

    You are a liar. Again. It's becoming tiresome GrandWizard:
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Very true is this the start of a European implosion I wonder ?....

    An implosion of the EU's own making. My views on Europe have changed dramatically over the last 10 years.


    I have to agree with that. I am also angry how European politicians behave these days. Men like Juncker, Schultz and Tusk need to talk with all the citizens of the EU. The worried citizens. Because our middle class is being destroyed in a fast rate. A middle class destruction, that reminds me of the 1920's and 1930's.

    So indeed, European politicians forcefully need to say: "Dear people, we are sorry that we didn't listen to you!" It needs to be the driving force of upcoming summits about the future of the EU.

    You call that 'VERY critical' do you? I bet the Eurocrats are rocking after you really smashed them out of the park there.
    I'm longing for the day when we have a United States of Europe....and specially a European passport[/b].
    But....people make it sound like the EU is the 'real dictatorship' here in Europe. And I do find such remarks pityful
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?
    I am pro-EU. And I have got some damn good reasons for that.
    I would love to give up my Dutch passport for a United States Of Europe passport.
    The United States Of Europe. It would be my ultimate dream
    Wake up. Think of the true idealism of mankind: The United States Of Europe!

    Etc, etc

    Took me about 5 mins to find those. And theres another 50 pages of your 'criticism' to sift through if I could be arsed.

    With 'critics' like you no wonder the EU has reached a critical mass of bloated decadence and corruption.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2016 Posts: 18,338
    I'm a bit tired of the confrontational, blackmailing power politics of the British. It's as if the world only is about the UK at times.....and not about Europe. Although I do understand it, as it's the UK only that needs to survive by itself.

    In this instance, leaving the EU is all about the UK.

    Yes, and wasn't that what it was all about in the end analysis? Every state puts their own interests to the forefront and that includes both the UK and all of the other EU member states. Let us not kid ourselves here.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    This email back from Europol (at least they seem to be able to act quickly)

    "Sir, we can find no evidence of Gustav Graves being anti EU. It is with this in mind that we will not be recommending further action."

    Oh & before I forget congratulations on your promotion WizardOfice - sorry GrandWizardOfice.

    Gustav with all due respect you have been contradicting yourself over these past few pages. Don't ask me to point out where I'll leave you to figure that one out.

  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    stag wrote: »
    Oh & before I forget congratulations on your promotion WizardOfice - sorry GrandWizardOfice.

    Ta muchly.

    Unfortunately I have just had it confirmed by the Grand Lodge of Wizards that as the guy proposing me for promotion is borderline certifiable they have quashed this and I have been busted back down to humble Wizard again.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited July 2016 Posts: 23,883
    I would love to give up my Dutch passport for a United States Of Europe passport.
    The United States Of Europe. It would be my ultimate dream
    Wake up. Think of the true idealism of mankind: The United States Of Europe!

    Etc, etc

    Took me about 5 mins to find those. And theres another 50 pages of your 'criticism' to sift through if I could be arsed.

    With 'critics' like you no wonder the EU has reached a critical mass of bloated decadence and corruption.

    Bloody 'ell! I can't believe what I just read. United States of Europe? That is a bureaucratic nightmare not even worth contemplating. Fortunately, I don't believe it will ever become a reality because ultimately the people will not go for it. It's not a viable or sustainable long term goal imho. There are just too many (understandably) sovereignist inclinations among the stronger countries in the union for it to become a reality.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,437
    bondjames wrote: »
    I would love to give up my Dutch passport for a United States Of Europe passport.
    The United States Of Europe. It would be my ultimate dream
    Wake up. Think of the true idealism of mankind: The United States Of Europe!

    Etc, etc

    Took me about 5 mins to find those. And theres another 50 pages of your 'criticism' to sift through if I could be arsed.

    With 'critics' like you no wonder the EU has reached a critical mass of bloated decadence and corruption.

    Bloody 'ell! I can't believe what I just read. United States of Europe? That is a bureaucratic nightmare not even worth contemplating. Fortunately, I don't believe it will ever become a reality because ultimately the people will not go for it. It's not a viable or sustainable long term goal imho. There are just too many (understandably) sovereignist inclinations among the stronger countries in the union for it to become a reality.

    If it weren't for Brexit it would have had a reality within 5 years. Europe can thank us later.
  • Posts: 11,119
    many Brits in here shamelessly forget that I am VERY critical of the current EU.

    =))

    Air crash investigation just called. They say they've been over all your posts with a fine tooth comb but couldn't find anything that could be called 'critical'.

    You are a liar. Again. It's becoming tiresome GrandWizard:
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Very true is this the start of a European implosion I wonder ?....

    An implosion of the EU's own making. My views on Europe have changed dramatically over the last 10 years.


    I have to agree with that. I am also angry how European politicians behave these days. Men like Juncker, Schultz and Tusk need to talk with all the citizens of the EU. The worried citizens. Because our middle class is being destroyed in a fast rate. A middle class destruction, that reminds me of the 1920's and 1930's.

    So indeed, European politicians forcefully need to say: "Dear people, we are sorry that we didn't listen to you!" It needs to be the driving force of upcoming summits about the future of the EU.

    You call that 'VERY critical' do you? I bet the Eurocrats are rocking after you really smashed them out of the park there.
    I'm longing for the day when we have a United States of Europe....and specially a European passport[/b].
    But....people make it sound like the EU is the 'real dictatorship' here in Europe. And I do find such remarks pityful
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?
    I am pro-EU. And I have got some damn good reasons for that.
    I would love to give up my Dutch passport for a United States Of Europe passport.
    The United States Of Europe. It would be my ultimate dream
    Wake up. Think of the true idealism of mankind: The United States Of Europe!

    Etc, etc

    Took me about 5 mins to find those. And theres another 50 pages of your 'criticism' to sift through if I could be arsed.

    With 'critics' like you no wonder the EU has reached a critical mass of bloated decadence and corruption.

    You are a master in dissecting quotes, and placing them out of context. I give you credit for that.

    A) YES, I think in the end, in about 100 years from now, it's inevitable to have a United States of Europe. Sadly, you tend to forget that. But in order to get there, we need to become damn more critical of the current European Union.

    That's when B) I posted this:
    I have to agree with that. I am also angry how European politicians behave these days. Men like Juncker, Schultz and Tusk need to talk with all the citizens of the EU. The worried citizens. Because our middle class is being destroyed in a fast rate. A middle class destruction, that reminds me of the 1920's and 1930's.

    So indeed, European politicians forcefully need to say: "Dear people, we are sorry that we didn't listen to you!" It needs to be the driving force of upcoming summits about the future of the EU.

    So again, don't force me here to become an anti-EU-voice or an anti-Netherlands-voice. I will never be that voice. Nor will I bow for your glaring attacks that put my opinion completely out of context.

    So, as you fail to find my comprehensive opinion about The Netherlands and the EU, here I summarize it for you. With bullet points.

    A) YES, in the current-day geopolitical environment I am a pro-EU supporter. I will always be. But not a naïve one.
    B) YES, thanks to Brexit, I have become an even more critical EU-supporter. Hence why I reposted my quote....a quote that you KEEP ignoring.
    C) YES, the current EU needs to change drastically, but I don't want it to be destroyed! I want real change, but not British Chamberlain-esque nepotism and narcism.
    D) YES, I am a supporter of Dutch interests, especially economically and financially, and I believe we can milk out the good parts of the EU and use them in our own Dutch advantage.
    E) YES, my ultimate dream, 'Arthur C. Clarke-ian' dream so to say, is indeed a United States of Europe. But in order to get there in a 100 years from now, we f%#$@ng need to drastically change the EU.

    So again, stop lying. Stop making people look like retards when it is you who willfully places all nuance and criticism out of context. And on top of that, TRY to understand that you can be both a pro-EU-supporter and an avid supporter of nationalist, domestic interest.

    This discussion in here has become so poisonous, because apparently you need to choose sides. You are either pro-EU and anti-Dutch/British or anti-EU and pro-Dutch/British. It's ludicrous, foolish, dangerous and offensive for your own intellect and nuance.

    And lastly, life is not black-and-white. I know people want to have clarity these days, but I'm not going to sell my soul to the devil. I am who I am. Honest, nuanced and at times complex when it comes to my political opinions.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,437
    Theresa May does naffest Thatcher impression ever during PMQs. Yuck.
  • Posts: 11,119
    Theresa May does naffest Thatcher impression ever during PMQs. Yuck.

    Sorry, I don't understand :-P.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I'm a bit tired of the confrontational, blackmailing power politics of the British. It's as if the world only is about the UK at times.....and not about Europe. Although I do understand it, as it's the UK only that needs to survive by itself.

    In this instance, leaving the EU is all about the UK.

    The old "It isn t you, it s me." ?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,437
    Theresa May does naffest Thatcher impression ever during PMQs. Yuck.

    Sorry, I don't understand :-P.

    Look up "Theresa may unscrupulous bosses" on YouTube for the clip. She goes full Thatcher in a very pantomime performance. Ultimate cringe. Yuck.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    many Brits in here shamelessly forget that I am VERY critical of the current EU.

    =))

    Air crash investigation just called. They say they've been over all your posts with a fine tooth comb but couldn't find anything that could be called 'critical'.

    You are a liar. Again. It's becoming tiresome GrandWizard:
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    Mrcoggins wrote: »
    Very true is this the start of a European implosion I wonder ?....

    An implosion of the EU's own making. My views on Europe have changed dramatically over the last 10 years.


    I have to agree with that. I am also angry how European politicians behave these days. Men like Juncker, Schultz and Tusk need to talk with all the citizens of the EU. The worried citizens. Because our middle class is being destroyed in a fast rate. A middle class destruction, that reminds me of the 1920's and 1930's.

    So indeed, European politicians forcefully need to say: "Dear people, we are sorry that we didn't listen to you!" It needs to be the driving force of upcoming summits about the future of the EU.

    You call that 'VERY critical' do you? I bet the Eurocrats are rocking after you really smashed them out of the park there.
    I'm longing for the day when we have a United States of Europe....and specially a European passport[/b].
    But....people make it sound like the EU is the 'real dictatorship' here in Europe. And I do find such remarks pityful
    Are there any pro-EU people here? Or am I the only one in here who's considered a dumb ass and 'irritating' Europhile?
    I am pro-EU. And I have got some damn good reasons for that.
    I would love to give up my Dutch passport for a United States Of Europe passport.
    The United States Of Europe. It would be my ultimate dream
    Wake up. Think of the true idealism of mankind: The United States Of Europe!

    Etc, etc

    Took me about 5 mins to find those. And theres another 50 pages of your 'criticism' to sift through if I could be arsed.

    With 'critics' like you no wonder the EU has reached a critical mass of bloated decadence and corruption.

    You are a master in dissecting quotes, and placing them out of context. I give you credit for that.

    A) YES, I think in the end, in about 100 years from now, it's inevitable to have a United States of Europe. Sadly, you tend to forget that. But in order to get there, we need to become damn more critical of the current European Union.

    That's when B) I posted this:
    I have to agree with that. I am also angry how European politicians behave these days. Men like Juncker, Schultz and Tusk need to talk with all the citizens of the EU. The worried citizens. Because our middle class is being destroyed in a fast rate. A middle class destruction, that reminds me of the 1920's and 1930's.

    So indeed, European politicians forcefully need to say: "Dear people, we are sorry that we didn't listen to you!" It needs to be the driving force of upcoming summits about the future of the EU.

    So again, don't force me here to become an anti-EU-voice or an anti-Netherlands-voice. I will never be that voice. Nor will I bow for your glaring attacks that put my opinion completely out of context.

    So, as you fail to find my comprehensive opinion about The Netherlands and the EU, here I summarize it for you. With bullet points.

    A) YES, in the current-day geopolitical environment I am a pro-EU supporter. I will always be. But not a naïve one.
    B) YES, thanks to Brexit, I have become an even more critical EU-supporter. Hence why I reposted my quote....a quote that you KEEP ignoring.
    C) YES, the current EU needs to change drastically, but I don't want it to be destroyed! I want real change, but not British Chamberlain-esque nepotism and narcism.
    D) YES, I am a supporter of Dutch interests, especially economically and financially, and I believe we can milk out the good parts of the EU and use them in our own Dutch advantage.
    E) YES, my ultimate dream, 'Arthur C. Clarke-ian' dream so to say, is indeed a United States of Europe. But in order to get there in a 100 years from now, we f%#$@ng need to drastically change the EU.

    So again, stop lying. Stop making people look like retards when it is you who willfully places all nuance and criticism out of context. And on top of that, TRY to understand that you can be both a pro-EU-supporter and an avid supporter of nationalist, domestic interest.

    This discussion in here has become so poisonous, because apparently you need to choose sides. You are either pro-EU and anti-Dutch/British or anti-EU and pro-Dutch/British. It's ludicrous, foolish, dangerous and offensive for your own intellect and nuance.

    And lastly, life is not black-and-white. I know people want to have clarity these days, but I'm not going to sell my soul to the devil. I am who I am. Honest, nuanced and at times complex when it comes to my political opinions.

    I have not ignored your 'critical' quote. My post of 12.37 refers directly to it. Its not my fault if you dont understand how these boards work and that you need to click 'show previous quotes'.

    The fact that you consider saying Juncker and co should listen more as 'VERY critical' (your words not mine) paints its own picture.

    You say you want change yet I asked you numerous times how would you go about doing it if you only had the two options 'Leave' or 'Remain' with which to send a message to these people. Youve never answered that so dont start up at people for ignoring your points. Its the internet just move on.

    I'm not sure how I'm lying and quoting you out of context unless when I quote you as saying 'The United States Of Europe. It would be my ultimate dream' or 'I would love to give up my Dutch passport for a United States Of Europe passport' I have omitted the bit at the start where you say 'If I ever say the following have me sectioned'?

    Also stop accusing people of lying (thats twice now - a third time its enemy action) when they are merely quoting your own words back at you.

    You keep repeating how critical you are of the EU (methinks the lady does protest too much?) so wouldnt you vote Brexit given the chance then? In an ideal world I would much prefer to remain in a well run and productive EU but that is not what we have got right now and given voting 'Remain' would have given them a mandate for carrying on with business as usual then Brexit was the only option. If the whole thing needs to come crashing down to get reform so be it.

    The EU needed a Stasi agent kicking down your door and throwing a bucket of ice cold water in your face at 5am style wake up call - which is what it has got. Your classic liberal wishy washy method of saying 'I think maybe you could listen a bit more guys' is pissing in the wind while Rome burns and would never have changed anything.

    I dont think you need to choose sides. You can love Europe and hate the EU. You can be pro British and love Europe at the same time. I love football but despise FIFA with every fibre of my being. The EU is exactly the same construct as FIFA. Unaccountable, fat old men, with utter contempt for the people they are supposed to be serving, trousering huge sums for doing what exactly? I've yet to have anyone point out to me precisely what we would be losing if the EU ceased to exist.

    PS - I dont know who told you that to win a debate you need to write 'nuance' in every sentence but they were winding you up.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,999
    I'm a bit tired of the confrontational, blackmailing power politics of the British. It's as if the world only is about the UK at times.....and not about Europe. Although I do understand it, as it's the UK only that needs to survive by itself.

    In this instance, leaving the EU is all about the UK.

    The old "It isn t you, it s me." ?

    It's over. We're taking the dog, the EU can keep the rest, especially the Barry Manilow collection.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,338
    Theresa May does naffest Thatcher impression ever during PMQs. Yuck.

    Sorry, I don't understand :-P.

    She made joke. Everyone laugh. It very funny.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    Gustav WRT your comment (quote) "British Chamberlain-esque nepotism and narcism" could you please explain exactly what you mean?

    I guess you're speaking about the British prime minister who was succeeded by Winston Churchill - you know, the chap who kept the UK out of world war two.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,249
    Exit politics. Thanks to all for participating.
This discussion has been closed.