The Race to be the Next Prime Minister of the United Kingdom [Theresa May the new PM - 13 July 2016]

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Comments

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,968
    You two should agree to disagree; and people wonder why these political threads are never easy going. Also, @stag, it may do you well around the forums to get to know members a little better, especially if you're going to start calling out veteran members as trolls.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Whatever answer I give won't satisfy you unless I say of course that the UK should have voted to remain. I have no desire to get into a protracted argument with someone who has no concept of of the British Psyche as it pertained to this referendum. In short we (the British) voted out. Our decision is just that - ours. Get over it.

    Thank you.

    I'm already 'over it' @stag :-). It's a pity that you don't want to discuss or admit that conservatism prevails progressiveness these days. What's wrong with that?

    You have progressive and conservative Labour voters. You have progressive and conservative Tory voters. And perhaps you can pinpoint yourself on this map (left/right (links/rechts) vs. progressive/conservative (progressief/conservatief)):

    Pol-landschap-2010.gif

    Or.....do I hear a bit of shame for voting so intensely conservative? Don't feel ashamed. Admit it.

    Too many labels these days. Everything has become tribal, whether its identity or politics. 'Oh well you're not in my camp, so you're morally inferior'. Ironically it seems 'progressiveness' has brought about the very thing it suggests it wants to prevent, 'social discord'.

    Well, that's open for intense debate. In my humble opinion the 'social discord' you are referring too, at times was caused by conservatives who intensely hugged the aspects of free trade and capitalism.

    Also, one can be 'fiscally conservative' and 'social progressive'. Or even 'fiscally progressive' and social conservative'. I do hope you are not referring to elements of 'social conservatism', because I am very happy we have gay marriage these days.

    Again you're talking in labels, and no, I'm not referring to gay marriage (I'm not sure where that dramatic accusatory leap came from), but it's this notion of labelling people that some find detrimental to our ability to integrate. Most people, particularly in this country, are pretty liberal. What they don't take kindly to are morally superior brats who want to tell them how they should live, how they should think, which terms they are and aren't allowed to use... the explosion of social media has accelerated 'progression' to a point where it is more akin to a faux social revolution. The more complex we make ourselves, the more we seem to find conflict. Even your reply is loaded with passive aggression.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I enjoy the back and forth banter with @Gustav_Graves his determination in finding
    New ways to ask the same questions, :)) His love of my use of smillies, it's all good
    Fun.
    I doubt anyone will ever be able to answer his questions, and he'll never be able to
    Change anyone's mind, so in two years time we'll still be having this discussion. ;)
  • Posts: 11,119
    I enjoy the back and forth banter with @Gustav_Graves his determination in finding
    New ways to ask the same questions, :)) His love of my use of smillies, it's all good
    Fun.
    I doubt anyone will ever be able to answer his questions, and he'll never be able to
    Change anyone's mind, so in two years time we'll still be having this discussion. ;)

    The sheer reluctance to answer my questions, could be perceived as a huge intellectual deficit. Hence why people twist it into a "@Gustav_Graves is only here to make people change their opinions to such an extent that they meet his requirements".

    Frankly, you are wrong :-).
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Whatever answer I give won't satisfy you unless I say of course that the UK should have voted to remain. I have no desire to get into a protracted argument with someone who has no concept of of the British Psyche as it pertained to this referendum. In short we (the British) voted out. Our decision is just that - ours. Get over it.

    Thank you.

    I'm already 'over it' @stag :-). It's a pity that you don't want to discuss or admit that conservatism prevails progressiveness these days. What's wrong with that?

    You have progressive and conservative Labour voters. You have progressive and conservative Tory voters. And perhaps you can pinpoint yourself on this map (left/right (links/rechts) vs. progressive/conservative (progressief/conservatief)):

    Pol-landschap-2010.gif

    Or.....do I hear a bit of shame for voting so intensely conservative? Don't feel ashamed. Admit it.

    Too many labels these days. Everything has become tribal, whether its identity or politics. 'Oh well you're not in my camp, so you're morally inferior'. Ironically it seems 'progressiveness' has brought about the very thing it suggests it wants to prevent, 'social discord'.

    Well, that's open for intense debate. In my humble opinion the 'social discord' you are referring too, at times was caused by conservatives who intensely hugged the aspects of free trade and capitalism.

    Also, one can be 'fiscally conservative' and 'social progressive'. Or even 'fiscally progressive' and social conservative'. I do hope you are not referring to elements of 'social conservatism', because I am very happy we have gay marriage these days.

    Again you're talking in labels, and no, I'm not referring to gay marriage (I'm not sure where that dramatic accusatory leap came from), but it's this notion of labelling people that some find detrimental to our ability to integrate. Most people, particularly in this country, are pretty liberal. What they don't take kindly to are morally superior brats who want to tell them how they should live, how they should think, which terms they are and aren't allowed to use... the explosion of social media has accelerated 'progression' to a point where it is more akin to a faux social revolution. The more complex we make ourselves, the more we seem to find conflict. Even your reply is loaded with passive aggression.

    I'm not a 'moral superior brat' you fool :-). If you accuse me of 'passive aggression', then you are perhaps the personification of 'active aggression'. Your vocabulary implies just that :-). It's quite your own deficit if you can't discuss something simple as 'progressive' vs. 'conservative'. I don't tell people that they should be conservative or progressive, like you so falsely imply. I merely ask questions. And as long as those questions cause irritation and are left unanswered, it shows that there is a greater problem in society. And only on that aspect I agree with you.
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    Posts: 1,053
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    You two should agree to disagree; and people wonder why these political threads are never easy going. Also, @stag, it may do you well around the forums to get to know members a little better, especially if you're going to start calling out veteran members as trolls.

    I didn't call him a troll I said he was on the verge of trolling. I answered his questions only to be told I hadn't & I should admit my shame at voting out.

    I agree we should agree to disagree & am not after a brawl but I don't like people telling me what I'm thinking. RC7 summed it up in a nutshell in his last post.
    so in two years time we'll still be having this discussion. ;)

    I won't be - by the grace of god we'll have left the EU by then anyway.

    I have just figured out how to place multiple quotes into a post (I think).

  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    Whatever answer I give won't satisfy you unless I say of course that the UK should have voted to remain. I have no desire to get into a protracted argument with someone who has no concept of of the British Psyche as it pertained to this referendum. In short we (the British) voted out. Our decision is just that - ours. Get over it.

    Thank you.

    I'm already 'over it' @stag :-). It's a pity that you don't want to discuss or admit that conservatism prevails progressiveness these days. What's wrong with that?

    You have progressive and conservative Labour voters. You have progressive and conservative Tory voters. And perhaps you can pinpoint yourself on this map (left/right (links/rechts) vs. progressive/conservative (progressief/conservatief)):

    Pol-landschap-2010.gif

    Or.....do I hear a bit of shame for voting so intensely conservative? Don't feel ashamed. Admit it.

    Too many labels these days. Everything has become tribal, whether its identity or politics. 'Oh well you're not in my camp, so you're morally inferior'. Ironically it seems 'progressiveness' has brought about the very thing it suggests it wants to prevent, 'social discord'.

    Well, that's open for intense debate. In my humble opinion the 'social discord' you are referring too, at times was caused by conservatives who intensely hugged the aspects of free trade and capitalism.

    Also, one can be 'fiscally conservative' and 'social progressive'. Or even 'fiscally progressive' and social conservative'. I do hope you are not referring to elements of 'social conservatism', because I am very happy we have gay marriage these days.

    Again you're talking in labels, and no, I'm not referring to gay marriage (I'm not sure where that dramatic accusatory leap came from), but it's this notion of labelling people that some find detrimental to our ability to integrate. Most people, particularly in this country, are pretty liberal. What they don't take kindly to are morally superior brats who want to tell them how they should live, how they should think, which terms they are and aren't allowed to use... the explosion of social media has accelerated 'progression' to a point where it is more akin to a faux social revolution. The more complex we make ourselves, the more we seem to find conflict. Even your reply is loaded with passive aggression.

    I'm not a 'moral superior brat' you fool :-). If you accuse me of 'passive aggression', then you are perhaps the personification of 'active aggression'. Your vocabulary implies just that :-). It's quite your own deficit if you can't discuss something simple as 'progressive' vs. 'conservative'. I don't tell people that they should be conservative or progressive, like you so falsely imply. I merely ask questions. And as long as those questions cause irritation and are left unanswered, it shows that there is a greater problem in society. And only on that aspect I agree with you.

    You're still very obviously looking for conflict. I didn't call you a morally superior brat, I'm referring to the raft of uneducated student-level protestors who do not understand what they're even protesting for or against (Before anyone kicks off, there are obviously well educated, informed students). Only this morning I saw a teenage protester (dressed like something from Fallout, incidentally) being quizzed about the three best things about the EU. Her answers: A) The NHS, B) The fact she will now have to pay to go to France (me neither), C) It's about everyone uniting together and having the same opinion. She was holding a placard saying 'No Bigots, no borders'. It's an incendiary act, undertaken by someone who has absolutely no clue what she's on about. Whether she is right or wrong is moot, as she proved to be as ill educated as those she is mocking.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 389
    @Gustav_Graves here's a guide to UK politics just for you. :D

    There are 2 major parties, THE CONSERVATIVES or 'TORIES & LABOUR, because we don't have preportional representation but have a first past the post system, the rest including the SNP, Lib Dems & all the others on the whole are minor parties in the Westminster Parliament, which despite what Ms Stugeon believes still has the final word on constitutional matters.

    THE CONSERVATIVE PARTY = slightly right of centre ground
    THE LABOUR PARTY = slightly left of the centre ground

    Basically not a great deal of difference between the two major parties, hence the majority of MP's decision to back remain, the losers on this occasion, but as has been stated, nothing to do with party politics.

    After Margaret Thatcher's more right wing centralised policies, it was noted by the opposition's new leader Blair that far left wing politics as had been championed by Neil kinnock & the like had made THE LABOUR PARTY unelectable, this was due to the progressive change in the demographic make up of the UK away from manufacturing & heavy industry to service & financial sectors. So Blair manufactured New Labour which moved the Party's ideals closer to the centre ground, he moved a lot of like minded candidates into position & pushed out the majority of left wing reactionaries. This made the party more appealing to the general electorate, hence 3 election victories.

    I could go on more but I hope you get the idea, in the UK there is little to choose between nowadays, no matter what the people say, because we have a weak bereft of ideas, professional polititcal class.

    Politics in the UK has become stale, quod erat demonstrandum, the current crisis gripping Westminster.
  • Posts: 11,119
    stag wrote: »
    ni
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    You two should agree to disagree; and people wonder why these political threads are never easy going. Also, @stag, it may do you well around the forums to get to know members a little better, especially if you're going to start calling out veteran members as trolls.

    I didn't call him a troll I said he was on the verge of trolling. I answered his questions only to be told I hadn't & I should admit my shame at voting out.

    I agree we should agree to disagree & am not after a brawl but I don't like people telling me what I'm thinking. RC7 summed it up in a nutshell in his last post.
    so in two years time we'll still be having this discussion. ;)

    I won't be - by the grace of god we'll have left the EU by then anyway.

    I have just figured out how to place multiple quotes into a post (I think).

    Ehh, I didn't tell in any way, any way, how you should behave or.....think. Be a sport, be a real man, and show me one of my quotes where I am saying "You should think like this or that".

    @RC7 and you @stag are merely irritated by me and how I verbalize things. Call me a potential troller for God sake, but as long as you talk nonsense, I will keep repeating my words.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Hey I don't mind being wrong @Gustav_Graves just so long as I
    Remain Fabulous ! :D
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    stag wrote: »
    ni
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    You two should agree to disagree; and people wonder why these political threads are never easy going. Also, @stag, it may do you well around the forums to get to know members a little better, especially if you're going to start calling out veteran members as trolls.

    I didn't call him a troll I said he was on the verge of trolling. I answered his questions only to be told I hadn't & I should admit my shame at voting out.

    I agree we should agree to disagree & am not after a brawl but I don't like people telling me what I'm thinking. RC7 summed it up in a nutshell in his last post.
    so in two years time we'll still be having this discussion. ;)

    I won't be - by the grace of god we'll have left the EU by then anyway.

    I have just figured out how to place multiple quotes into a post (I think).

    Ehh, I didn't tell in any way, any way, how you should behave or.....think. Be a sport, be a real man, and show me one of my quotes where I am saying "You should think like this or that".

    @RC7 and you @stag are merely irritated by me and how I verbalize things. Call me a potential troller for God sake, but as long as you talk nonsense, I will keep repeating my words.

    I'm not irritated, I'm just offering an opinion that this debate (not on this forum) is being driven in large part by destructive rhetoric on either side of the political spectrum. None of what I have said is nonsense, at least imo.
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    ni
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    You two should agree to disagree; and people wonder why these political threads are never easy going. Also, @stag, it may do you well around the forums to get to know members a little better, especially if you're going to start calling out veteran members as trolls.

    I didn't call him a troll I said he was on the verge of trolling. I answered his questions only to be told I hadn't & I should admit my shame at voting out.

    I agree we should agree to disagree & am not after a brawl but I don't like people telling me what I'm thinking. RC7 summed it up in a nutshell in his last post.
    so in two years time we'll still be having this discussion. ;)

    I won't be - by the grace of god we'll have left the EU by then anyway.

    I have just figured out how to place multiple quotes into a post (I think).

    Ehh, I didn't tell in any way, any way, how you should behave or.....think. Be a sport, be a real man, and show me one of my quotes where I am saying "You should think like this or that".

    @RC7 and you @stag are merely irritated by me and how I verbalize things. Call me a potential troller for God sake, but as long as you talk nonsense, I will keep repeating my words.

    I'm not irritated, I'm just offering an opinion that this debate (not on this forum) is being driven in large part by destructive rhetoric on either side of the political spectrum. None of what I have said is nonsense, at least imo.

    Do you believe Brexit in itself enhanced that rhetoric on either sides of the political spectrum?
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited July 2016 Posts: 1,053
    Gustav. You're right & everyone else is wrong. You occupy the moral high ground while everyone else thrashes around in the morass of iniquity. I hope my admission that I am wrong & you are right will appease you. As mentioned by another poster you are most obviously looking for conflict. You're not going to get it from me. You can posture all you like but one fact remains beyond your reach - last Thursday the UK electorate (those damned uneducated unwashed morons) voted to cut themselves free from the EU project.

    If I may I suggest you might consider writing to the Government of the United Kingdom (I can get the address for you if you wish) to register your feelings about this matter.

    Once again thank you.

    Oh before I forget here's a quote from your good self "do I hear a bit of shame for voting so intensely conservative? Don't feel ashamed. Admit it." Thanks for telling me how I feel!

  • edited July 2016 Posts: 389
    @Gustav_Graves I don't mind failing, because I have at least tried.

    Plus in my case it wouldn't both me because I'd be too busy looking GOOD! :D
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    stag wrote: »
    ni
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    You two should agree to disagree; and people wonder why these political threads are never easy going. Also, @stag, it may do you well around the forums to get to know members a little better, especially if you're going to start calling out veteran members as trolls.

    I didn't call him a troll I said he was on the verge of trolling. I answered his questions only to be told I hadn't & I should admit my shame at voting out.

    I agree we should agree to disagree & am not after a brawl but I don't like people telling me what I'm thinking. RC7 summed it up in a nutshell in his last post.
    so in two years time we'll still be having this discussion. ;)

    I won't be - by the grace of god we'll have left the EU by then anyway.

    I have just figured out how to place multiple quotes into a post (I think).

    Ehh, I didn't tell in any way, any way, how you should behave or.....think. Be a sport, be a real man, and show me one of my quotes where I am saying "You should think like this or that".

    @RC7 and you @stag are merely irritated by me and how I verbalize things. Call me a potential troller for God sake, but as long as you talk nonsense, I will keep repeating my words.

    I'm not irritated, I'm just offering an opinion that this debate (not on this forum) is being driven in large part by destructive rhetoric on either side of the political spectrum. None of what I have said is nonsense, at least imo.

    Do you believe Brexit in itself enhanced that rhetoric on either sides of the political spectrum?

    To an extent, although I don't believe a similar reaction would've occurred had the vote been the reverse. It is a certain section of those who voted Remain, and are point-blank refusing to accept the democratic result, that are acting in a bigoted manner. There is not one way to view this, though. It's too complex. To blame this on the 'Brexit' isn't to tell the truth, what has brought this about is ambivalence on the part of the political elite, followed by misinformation and then panic. As I've said, I voted Remain, but I believe in democracy and I believe this result should be treated with respect. If you think 17m aren't educated, surely the priority is to do just that, educate. Walking around wearing a 'Hug a European' lanyard, or calling everyone bigots seems like a complete and utter waste of time.
  • edited July 2016 Posts: 389
    If you label 17m people uneducated how come we have the 5th/6th largest economy? :-/

    Education isn't always about pieces of paper anyway, ask Lord Sugar, left school at 16 & he voted remain! >:)
  • Posts: 7,653
    If you label 17m people uneducated how come we have the 5th/6th largest economy? :-/

    We will see how long that is the case, currently due to the party politics and a lack of leadership in what you could call an governmental crisis your economical stance is taking a big nosedive.



  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited July 2016 Posts: 9,117
    stag wrote: »
    Whatever answer I give won't satisfy you unless I say of course that the UK should have voted to remain. I have no desire to get into a protracted argument with someone who has no concept of of the British Psyche as it pertained to this referendum. In short we (the British) voted out. Our decision is just that - ours. Get over it.

    Thank you.

    I'm already 'over it' @stag :-). It's a pity that you don't want to discuss or admit that conservatism prevails progressiveness these days. What's wrong with that?

    You consistently state you want a discussion but only as long as it's on topics you want to discuss. You claim it's a pity that people don't want to discuss yet when I posed you the question as to what option was there for someone who was discontent with the status quo to voice it other than vote Brexit a few pages back you just conveniently ignored it. But do I moan and keep repeating myself and begging for my posts to be noticed? Or worse still incessantly post an article that takes longer to read than the Chinese phone book and then bleat at everyone that if they only the took the time to read it they'd be blessed with the clarity of 20/20 EU vision like you?

    It all comes across as a bit needy to be honest mate.

    I'm reminded of David Brent's frustration that he couldn't get on Parkinson - 'I've got things to say if people would listen. But they won't!'
    Or.....do I hear a bit of shame for voting so intensely conservative? Don't feel ashamed. Admit it.

    Why would he be ashamed? Are you ashamed at being an EU lickspittle?
  • Fox out, May first, next round, Ding...Ding.... :-?
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2016 Posts: 18,270
    By the way....are there actually Labour voters in here? Or LibDems? These topics really seem to be one big Conservative hub these days.

    On top of that, ARE there actually 'Progressives' in here instead of 'Conservatives'?

    More predictable left-wing bias from you. How disappointing that you have obviously never in your life heard of 'One Nation' Tories. They deal in compassionate conservatism and deep respect for the working class.

    I happen to be one of that number myself, though I'm not (yet) a party member. But then everything in British politics is black and white with you, isn't it? Otherwise it doesn't fit in with your liberal agenda and gross simplification of the British political class, system and parties.
    Fox out, May first, next round, Ding...Ding.... :-?

    It was predicted Dr Liam Fox MP would be the first to go and so it has proved. The next poll will be by Thursday evening.
  • @Gustav_Graves you are Dutch, I am British, you've probably never lived in my country but your welcome to come, but don't just go to London like all the other f**king tourists do, get out, see the north east & north west, you'll find great people, lovely locations & great food. Just don't keep commenting on my countries politics when you don't live here & have no ties to it, OK. :-?
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited July 2016 Posts: 1,053
    If anything the recent posts on this thread illustrate perfectly the relationship between the EU & the UK as perceived by those dirty, illiterate scum otherwise known as the the British people. Gustav represents the EU, telling us what is right & wrong & what we should or should not be doing.

    Is it any wonder we voted out?! Oh & just to clarify I am a PROUD BREXITEER - I championed the cause & I went out on the campaign trail. I'm just waiting for someone to tell me that I really don't know what I was fighting for! :P
    @Gustav_Graves you are Dutch, I am British, you've probably never lived in my country but your welcome to come, but don't just go to London like all the other f**king tourists do, get out, see the north east & north west, you'll find great people, lovely locations & great food. Just don't keep commenting on my countries politics when you don't live here & have no ties to it, OK. :-?

    Well said. Yes Gustav you're welcome to come & explore the UK & meet the people. Ask them their opinion on the EU - you may not like what you hear though. No good just quoting the 'Bumper Book of Junkers' to them though. It will sound as if you've been brainwashed by EU propaganda! ;)
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I say put Her Majesty back in charge for a while ;)
  • stagstag In the thick of it!
    edited July 2016 Posts: 1,053
    I say put Her Majesty back in charge for a while ;)

    Or the Duke of Edinborough!

    Meanwhile after the first domino falls...............

    https://www.rt.com/op-edge/349408-eu-brexit-fragmenting-austria/

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    The Domino effect :))
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2016 Posts: 18,270
    I say put Her Majesty back in charge for a while ;)

    Oh no, someone lost their head (quite literally) the last time that happened! There was also the small matter of a Civil War. The constitutional monarchy we have at the moment in the UK is the best method of proceeding. I know that you were only joking though and of course I have great respect and admiration for HM Queen Elizabeth II. There will never be another like her!

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    :D we sort of have a civil war at the moment with the remain campaign still
    Complaining ( although no war is ever civil ) ;)
    In the old days, you'd lose your head but these days you simply resign !
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    edited July 2016 Posts: 18,270
    It's like what Axl Rose sang in the Guns 'n' Roses hit 'Civil War', "What's so civil about war anyway?" Very true. Brilliant song:



  • edited July 2016 Posts: 389
    I will ask all, what has really changed since the vote other than we as a nation by a majority have decided to leave an organisation that judging by the comments in Brussels today by Junker & his ilk have little or no idea how ours or for that matter any of the EU nation's work, he is so consumed by his hatred of Farage that he fails to realise that this man along with Boris Johnson have about as much influance on our government as I do on the weather. Junker should be sacked by the EU as I believe he has no idea what he's doing, he is partly to blame for the leave vote, so I should shake his hand. However if he & the others had just given DC what he requested, which to be honest was not that extreme, I do believe DC could have sold it to our country, but NO the EU bureaucrats, as the jumped up prima donna A....holes they are had to make our PM jump through hoops, belittling him & our nation in the process, as reported every night on all media in our country every minute during the negotiations, people don't forget even subconsciously, DC finally got what can only be described as a third rate watered down deal that everyone who actually read it could pick so many holes in it, that it began to resemble a piece of emmental.

    Back to my point to quote Chris Evans "Breath In, Breath Out Move On" It's happening, Britain is leaving the EU, what happens after clause 50 is executed is up to the EU, put I do believe my countries resolve, tenacity & innovation will create a better future for our children.
  • Dragonpol wrote: »
    I have great respect and admiration for HM Queen Elizabeth II. There will never be another like her!

    Agreed. What ever you decree ma'am. ^:)^
This discussion has been closed.