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Hoping to clear up the air

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  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    I understand your concerns, @Moore, but I also believe the head guys, myself included, still respect the old members asking questions and having some complaints to make. Unfortunately there's also a lot of clumsily communicated bitterness, the kind that bites on a personal level, to be dealt with, some of which you may find openly posted, some of which we get PMed to us. When multiple fires need to be put out at the same time, we might accidentally turn the hose to where there's none, you must understand. Also, some of us, mods, need some time to figure out where to put all the furniture too. I hope you can appreciate that we're all doing a bit of multitasking on here. We've all jumped on a fast train - those who can't follow us now, are left behind. But we'll return for them too, once we've figured out how the controls work.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    Great to see many other members joining, well maybe joining, us again.

    Welcome back @FieldsMan, @Seamaster_007 and many others. :-D
  • TheWhiteTuxedoTheWhiteTuxedo
    Posts: 70
    Quoting DarthDimi: I think it's time we got a little honest with each other. I'm sure some peeps out there are more than pleased with this, as re-inventing the old threads will only provide a satisfying opportunity to post like mad. We can go through all the films again, all the games and what not. I myself am looking forward to a clean start in fact. Some of the old threads were great fun - having those discussions all over again will be good too.



    The internet is written in ink they say. But our forum got lost... We oughtn't care too much about that though. Old discussions are gone, but the James Bond universe wasn't built on them. Rather they were built on the James Bond universe. Hence, they can be re-built.



    I joined KTBEU in '05, a few years since its take-off. I've always regretted not being there right from the start! Now I feel I am part of a fresh new start. Call it a reboot if you like. Six years of fun were 'lost' for me too. But do I care? No. I'm thinking of this as many more years of fun to come!



    Finally, I'd like to say thank you to Luds for the clarification of things.
    You may not care, Dimi, but I and many others genuinely do. We had a lot of threads that we worked very hard on that went up in smoke. I'm not place blame on that, but I will say to please respect the fact that some of us don't feel like just smiling like nothing happened and accepting whatever new board we are given.

    And benny, you are way off the mark. There is absolutely nothing "elitist" about what some of us have done. Some of us have banded together because we really are friends and we do not like what has happened. Some people felt betrayed, some just felt lost.

    I keep hearing people say "Give the new forum a chance". I am trying to, but this format is quite simply awful. You guys know me, you know I'm a nice guy. I'm not being petty, and neither are the others who feel disillusioned these days.

    We built a great community there. It went through ups and downs, but it was a great community of people who mostly liked each other. We had great, crazy threads, we laughed, we shared, we argued, we made up. And it was all saved, too. Then it just vanished with warning. I know there may have been circumstances that couldn't have been avoided, but we're now being told not to even care about what we lost. That's insane.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    edited March 2011 Posts: 1,986
    Quoting TheWhiteTuxedo: We built a great community there. It went through ups and downs, but it was a great community of people who mostly liked each other. We had great, crazy threads, we laughed, we shared, we argued, we made up. And it was all saved, too. Then it just vanished with warning. I know there may have been circumstances that couldn't have been avoided, but we're now being told not to even care about what we lost. That's insane.
    Nobody's telling you not to care Tux. We're just really trying hard to be positive and encourage people to take the opportunity to rebuild something great. Believe me, we care, and we're very sad by the loss of all this great history. It's a shock and a disappointment to a heck of a lot of members and we understand that. Mods and crew included.
  • danslittlefingerdanslittlefinger
    edited March 2011 Posts: 886
    Quoting Luds: Nobody's telling you not to care Tux. We're just really trying hard to be positive and encourage people to take the opportunity to rebuild something great. Believe me, we care, and we're very sad by the loss of all this great history. It's a shock and a disappointment to a heck of a lot of members and we understand that. Mods and crew included.

    I mean this question with respect Luds regarding the loss of the archives - with the transference, were they expected to be saved and duly found out they were not? If there was a remote chance of this happening, then surely back up methods could have been employed?

    In the business world, having been involved with similar 'change-over' situations, all possibilities must be looked at and back up plans installed.
    Why wasn't the "worst case scenario" looked at?
    If so, then why not dealt with and if not, why not?

    EDIT: At this point, no-one should be 'in shock' at all if the change over was looked at from all angles and forum members duly notified of the possibility of transference loss.

    Thanks.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    Quoting danslittlefinger: I mean this question with respect Luds regarding the loss of the archives - with the transference, were they expected to be saved and duly found out they were not? If there was a remote chance of this happening, then surely back up methods could have been employed?
    The issue isn't one carelessness regarding possible "loss of data", backups have been made over time. it's about access to this data which isn't in the admins' possession and out of their control, just like the old domains.
  • danslittlefingerdanslittlefinger
    edited March 2011 Posts: 886
    Quoting Luds:
    Quoting danslittlefinger: I mean this question with respect Luds regarding the loss of the archives - with the transference, were they expected to be saved and duly found out they were not? If there was a remote chance of this happening, then surely back up methods could have been employed?
    The issue isn't one carelessness regarding possible "loss of data", backups have been made over time. it's about access to this data which isn't in the admins' possession and out of their control, just like the old domains.

    Ok, but the loss of access to the data, was the possibility of that not looked into?
    But the main point here is if that was known beforehand (which I'm gathering it was?) why wasn't the forum duly informed with one mass post before hand?
    I think the majority might be able to live with that instead of the entire archive effectively irretrievable and not given the chance to save it for themselves.

    I'm really not trying to flare up anything, but I'm scratching my head as to how this was handled and I'm a pretty calm minded easy going person.

    Thanks.
  • LudsLuds MIA
    Posts: 1,986
    Quoting danslittlefinger: I'm really not trying to flare up anything, but I'm scratching my head as to how this was handled.
    The entire situation isn't entirely resolved, I tried to explain it here a few posts above
  • danslittlefingerdanslittlefinger
    Posts: 886
    Quoting Luds:
    Quoting danslittlefinger: I'm really not trying to flare up anything, but I'm scratching my head as to how this was handled.
    The entire situation isn't entirely resolved, I tried to explain it here a few posts above

    Oh, they really don't answer my questions/grievances clearly but thanks for your time Luds.
  • Gaz1961Gaz1961
    Posts: 117
    Luds, we all appreciate the work you guys put in - for free - and I look forward to the old content being restored, but in the meantime can't we all just enjoy the site and appreciate the time and effort the admins put in for our entertainment?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    Quoting Gaz1961: Luds, we all appreciate the work you guys put in - for free - and I look forward to the old content being restored, but in the meantime can't we all just enjoy the site and appreciate the time and effort the admins put in for our entertainment?
    QFT

    I find myself, like so many others, mourning the loss of the legendary KTBEU. I'm confident all of us do. But this forum has the potential to become as big - or even bigger - an event for us, Bond fans, with a few extra technical benefits. The admins didn't build this to make it worse but rather to make it better. So no use crying over spilled milk although I would once again make it very clear that I understand, respect and even appreciate the disappointment many have. I appreciate it because it means people really loved the old place. Well, this place can be every bit as good. Like going to college after high school. You leave behind old friends, sweethearts and memories, but you'll soon make new ones.
  • GeorgeLazenbyGeorgeLazenby
    Posts: 295
    The only thing I really lament is the suddenness and loss of the old material. The shock of the former has worn off and the latter doesn't bother me all that much because the ineptness of the search feature on that site made it so that most of my old posts/comments were buried and gone for all intents and purposes anyway. I quite like this new layout though and am excited to see where it goes.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    @GeorgeLazenby You like the layout? Wow! That's unusual. At least some people do apart from me. I think it has great potential to grow with some changes made so hopefully this'll be much better than the old place was.
  • JamesStockJamesStock
    Posts: 572
    I know I am just another, but, I really would have appreciated a warning...regardless of the complexities backstage.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    @JamesStock Well, I know we all expected an update one day but not for it to happen quite like this!
  • JamesStockJamesStock
    Posts: 572
    @Samuel001 Precisely. I am all for a fresh new start, but let me know so I am not continuously directed to other sites and have to do some digging to find the new.

    Personally, I think they should modernize the hq-site to match the magazine one. But give us a stinkin' warning next time! Okay, vented and happy again.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 13,355
    @JamesStock If you were a 00 Agent you should have got an email linking you here. Anyway many of the factors leading to the change were out of the admin's control in some regards, so it didn't go as smoothy as was wanted I would guess.

    I hope you can make your self as home again here as quickly as possible.
  • JamesStockJamesStock
    edited March 2011 Posts: 572
    @Samuel001 Mmm...I didn't receive one (and I was indeed humbled with the 00 status). Oh well, it makes me feel a little better there was some attempt. I know emails never seem to be 100% reliable.

    I am fine with the new forums...hopefully the search will work better this time. That would be a plus. Now if we could just get an alternate to the white background, then I would be happy.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    @JamesStock Put a suggestion in feedback thread and see what happens. I know it's already been suggested though. There are many improvements to be made in my opinion but apparently this forum will be much easier to update.
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Quoting Benny: There is obviously a safe haven that these members have regrouped at (judging by some of the posts), that not everyone is aware of, or have been asked to join.

    An elitist group if you will.
    I hope you are not referring to CommanderBond as an elitist group! I have been an active member of CBn since 04 and more recently on MI6 and I have never heard a bad word on CBn about MI6 except for some users who prefer one layout over another. By reading some of the posts and reading about the re-direct it almost seems that CBn is a bad word around here. I hope I am wrong on this as there are many users who belong to both groups.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 15,128
    Quoting jaguar007:
    Quoting Benny: There is obviously a safe haven that these
    members have regrouped at (judging by some of the posts), that not
    everyone is aware of, or have been asked to join.

    An elitist group if
    you will.
    I hope you are not referring to
    CommanderBond as an elitist group! I have been an active member of CBn since 04
    and more recently on MI6 and I have never heard a bad word on CBn about MI6
    except for some users who prefer one layout over another. By reading some of the
    posts and reading about the re-direct it almost seems that CBn is a bad word
    around here. I hope I am wrong on this as there are many users who belong to
    both groups.
    No I wasn't referring to CommanderBond, JaguarOO7.
    I was referring to the site that some of our friends here have moved onto. Nothing wrong with that, and I'm happy that they're content to do so.
    The reason I referred to it as an elitist club @Tux, is that so far it seems there is a list of who to tell, and who not to.
    Like the members are being vetted first. Again nothing wrong with that, and you know that this site will welcome any and all with open arms.
    You know if we're trying to clear the air. It works both ways.
    I hope all can be resolved, and mean no malice or upset toward anyone.
  • brinkeguthriebrinkeguthrie Piz Gloria
    Posts: 1,400
    Really hard to read these posts- sure liked how it was laid out before. That, plus I was over 1300 comments, and now.....
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    Posts: 1,699
    Quoting danslittlefinger:
    Quoting Luds:
    Quoting danslittlefinger: I'm really not trying to flare up anything, but I'm scratching my head as to how this was handled.


    The entire situation isn't entirely resolved, I tried to explain it here a few posts above




    Oh, they really don't answer my questions/grievances clearly but thanks for your time Luds.
    With all due respect, dan, I think it's fair to say that because the situation isn't resolved at present, it's all a bit delicate. But it's not all a big conspiracy either. The admins have to tread carefully right now, no doubt. I'm sure you can appreciate what I'm saying here. :)

    As to the idea that the admins and mods don't care about what's happened, including the frustrations and grievances of different members, truly, believe me, we all do. I perfectly understand and entirely sympathise with the way a number of veterans feel - and, not for one second, do I believe (nor do I think any of the admins or mods believe) any member should feel just one particular way about what's happened.

    It's been pretty devastating stuff and, like Dimi said above, in the maelstrom of the forums' restart and reorganisation, we've been trying to get used to what we now have as members and as mods it at the same time; I guess we've been trying to juggle several balls at the same time, instead of the two or three we usually do as mods here. To that end, if it hasn't sounded like, as a group, we're sincere to all members as to the regret over what's happened, I'm sorry. But, at the same time, I believe all that has happened was necessary and couldn't be avoided.

    An earthquake has hit the forums; we're picking up the pieces and invite everyone to join us. I'm delighted so many of the old guard are doing so and hope many more, who right now are justifiably in two minds, will do so too when the dust settles... :)
  • TopGearJB007TopGearJB007
    edited March 2011 Posts: 624
    Well, here's TopGearJB007 checking in. I am in shock. What was the matter with the old format? I am sure I am not the only one who feels that there was absolutely nothing wrong with MI6 the way it was. I guess I'll just wait until the dust settles. I'm just glad MI6 is back in some way, shape or form. I'll get over it.
  • YtterbiumYtterbium
    Posts: 269
    I'm not worrying so much about this new layout. Even if I'm used to the old one, I think the bondian community has already showed its potential through the years, by adapting to new James Bond actors and films, so why not a new discussion type. As 007, we belong to a previous era, but be can adapt to new technologies. I also appreciate all the efforts of the MI6 team through the years, and I trust they'll do the right things.

    What worries me more is the data. Has James Bond been messing around in the archive room ? Has they've been ransomed by Spectre, or targeted for destruction by Stromberg ? Whatever happened, I hope someone will save them, and that they will be made, one way or the other accessible. There has been too many things written that diserve to be saved, read and improved.

    A community's future is not only based on a passion and a network, but also on what has been previously achieved together. I also think that a high percentage of the content of the previous forum contained high quality discussions, compared to lots of discussions on the internet.

    Well, I keep the fingers crossed and hope that no one will trigger the Goldeneye over these archive. For the rest, I'm willing to move forward on any forum's layout.
    And thanks to Luds for answering everyone.
  • jaguar007jaguar007
    Posts: 638
    Quoting danslittlefinger: But the main point here is if that was known beforehand (which I'm gathering it was?) why wasn't the forum duly informed with one mass post before hand?

    I think the majority might be able to live with that instead of the entire archive effectively irretrievable and not given the chance to save it for themselves.
    I hope I am not speaking out of turn and I certainly speak with no authority, but reading between the lines, I don't think the admin really had any more warning than we did and don't really want to bad mouth or point the finger at any particular person. My guess, from what I can piece together, is that the owner of the domain of Mi6 (who may or may not have been actively involved with the web site) basically decided to stick a big middle finger at Mi6 and pulled the plug on the entire web site. I think our admin ended up putting together a new web site in an incredibly fast timeline and should be commended. That is my theory anyhow although I could be off.
  • danslittlefingerdanslittlefinger
    edited March 2011 Posts: 886
    Quoting jaguar007:
    Quoting danslittlefinger: But the main point here is if that was known beforehand (which I'm gathering it was?) why wasn't the forum duly informed with one mass post before hand?



    I think the majority might be able to live with that instead of the entire archive effectively irretrievable and not given the chance to save it for themselves.



    I hope I am not speaking out of turn and I certainly speak with no authority, but reading between the lines, I don't think the admin really had any more warning than we did and don't really want to bad mouth or point the finger at any particular person. My guess, from what I can piece together, is that the owner of the domain of Mi6 (who may or may not have been actively involved with the web site) basically decided to stick a big middle finger at Mi6 and pulled the plug on the entire web site. I think our admin ended up putting together a new web site in an incredibly fast timeline and should be commended. That is my theory anyhow although I could be off.

    As I'm being quote several times now (correctly), I'd like to say that I'm more aware of the situation and the limits/problems thereof.
    The Mods are doing a great job, absolutely.
    Indeed Luds has been a (*)
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    Quoting DarthDimi: I find myself, like so many others, mourning the loss of the legendary KTBEU.
    I'm confident all of us do. But this forum has the potential to become as big -
    or even bigger - an event for us, Bond fans, with a few extra technical
    benefits. The admins didn't build this to make it worse but rather to make it
    better. So no use crying over spilled milk although I would once again make it
    very clear that I understand, respect and even appreciate the disappointment
    many have. I appreciate it because it means people really loved the old place.
    Well, this place can be every bit as good. Like going to college after high
    school. You leave behind old friends, sweethearts and memories, but you'll soon
    make new ones


    Here here DD. And a few days in we have already notched up over 3500 posts. Not bad for a terrible and unusable forum.

    Thanks @danslittlefinger
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,355
    @NicNac, how do you know we already have 3,500 posts? Is there a way to check then, that I'm unaware of?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 24,157
    Quoting Samuel001: @NicNac, how do you know we already have 3,500 posts? Is there a way to check then, that I'm unaware of?
    That's the beauty of this place, Sam. It has many hidden back doors, secret passages, mysterious portals and occasionally a portal to delicate information. ;;)
    Quoting NicNac: Here here DD. And a few days in we have already notched up over 3500 posts. Not bad for a terrible and unusable forum.
    Exactly, Nick. This thing will peak again in a week or two I think.

    Remember there's a new Bond film next year. A new batch of Bond fans is ready to rock. They'll find the news site and be directed over here. Dark times they say? I find them exciting!
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