Hoping to clear up the air

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Comments

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 13,355
    Quoting DarthDimi:
    Quoting Samuel001: @NicNac, how do you know we already have 3,500 posts? Is there
    a way to check then, that I'm unaware of?
    That's the
    beauty of this place, Sam. It has many hidden back doors, secret passages,
    mysterious portals and occasionally a portal to delicate information.
    But of course! ;)

    Why didn't I think of that? I must be slow today.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    edited March 2011 Posts: 864
    Okay, I guess this is how I see it.

    We had a forum that was set up for us by a bunch of people. They let anyone and everyone join up and post, so long as they abided by some pretty basic rules. A lot of the time people didn't, but they were cut a hue amount of slack. Only real trolls and troublemakers got the boot.

    Now, over the years this bunch of people (the people who set the forum up) didn't get on so good anymore. Despite everything, trying all they could, they just couldn't make it work.

    Now, before the whole place just came crashing down, a couple of them decided that they'd make another forum, so that all the members who had given so much of their time to the place could still have somewhere to go. This would be an updated place (something that they hadn't been able to do before, due to the nature of the partnership) and hopefully more streamlined, easy to use and dynamic. The catch was that they had to do it without warning or they would probably not have been able to give us anywhere at all.

    So, this went ahead and the new site was launched. People were understandably upset and shocked, me included. Questions were asked, but initially they couldn't really be answered. The ins and outs are still not really worked out, so there is still a lot that can't be said. I don't know the answers to these questions any more than most, but I had faith there was a reason.

    Now, this new place that was set up (here) was provided free of charge for anyone to join and all "oo"s were automatically invited. I say free, because hosting and setting up this place takes time, effort and money. But rather than a "thank you" for at least trying to provide something, all that happened was accusations started to get thrown about. The mods knew as little as the rest of you, I can assure you.

    The point is that the old forum was going and there was nothing (other than what was done) that anyone could do to stop it. The electronic data is not physically in our possession anymore. We wish it was. We all gave a lot to that place, but it just feels that the admins and the mods have been held up as responsible for this, when the opposite is true.

  • I lament a lot of the unjustified venom hurled towards the *durrrrr* "twitbook* generation as I myself am a big fan of facebook and consider it my primary online home. That said, I can understand the frustration felt by those not used to its format and for whom ye olde mi6 was a fundamental dwelling place. If I woke up one day and found that facebook had disappeared or been converted into a bbs I'd be right pissed off and would most certainly freak out. I am optimistic for the future though, and hope that any wounds experienced in the last few days will eventually be patched up.
  • Quoting doubleonothing:




    Okay, I guess this is how I see it.



    We had a forum that was set up for us by a bunch of people. They let anyone and everyone join up and post, so long as they abided by some pretty basic rules. A lot of the time people didn't, but they were cut a hue amount of slack. Only real trolls and troublemakers got the boot.



    Now, over the years this bunch of people (the people who set the forum up) didn't get on so good anymore. Despite everything, trying all they could, they just couldn't make it work.



    Now, before the whole place just came crashing down, a couple of them decided that they'd make another forum, so that all the members who had given so much of their time to the place could still have somewhere to go. This would be an updated place (something that they hadn't been able to do before, due to the nature of the partnership) and hopefully more streamlined, easy to use and dynamic. The catch was that they had to do it without warning or they would probably not have been able to give us anywhere at all.



    So, this went ahead and the new site was launched. People were understandably upset and shocked, me included. Questions were asked, but initially they couldn't really be answered. The ins and outs are still not really worked out, so there is still a lot that can't be said. I don't know the answers to these questions any more than most, but I had faith there was a reason.



    Now, this new place that was set up (here) was provided free of charge for anyone to join and all "oo"s were automatically invited. I say free, because hosting and setting up this place takes time, effort and money. But rather than a "thank you" for at least trying to provide something, all that happened was accusations started to get thrown about. The mods knew as little as the rest of you, I can assure you.



    The point is that the old forum was going and there was nothing (other than what was done) that anyone could do to stop it. The electronic data is not physically in our possession anymore. We wish it was. We all gave a lot to that place, but it just feels that the admins and the mods have been held up as responsible for this, when the opposite is true.
    This is probably the best response I've read from someone on the mod team or close to the admins. Thank you, dublo.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 24,183
    Well said, @Dublo! We're still only guests in a good man's house. His rules are the only rules applying. Now he decided to rebuild the house brick by brick, but some furniture got lost in the process. His hospitality, however, remains the same. And that's where our gratitude is due. Besides, I feel like this new place has so many new switches to play with, new rooms to check out and a fridge full of 007 awesomeness. Like a kid in a comic book store, I'm excited like mad!
  • retrokittyretrokitty The Couv
    Posts: 380
    We are never going to completely agree on who was hurt more by whom... Seriously...

    So, taking the house analogy... it started as a small house. Many people who were there at the beginning to make that house a home stayed through the years. Over time, more people came to visit the house and the home grew. The guests built their own sections of the house, decided who would sleep where and what the rule of the house would be.

    The house grew to be a giant mansion with hundreds of people living there and hundreds visiting regularly to bring more bricks for more rooms and bring flowers to make it pretty. The house was still owned by one small group of people but the home belonged to the greater group of people.

    Oh,,, and there was a bit of a business attached to the house... and it grew because the people of the house frequented that business.

    So, the house needed rebuilding... and when the guests who had lived in the house comfortably for many years came home to find a new house they were surprised. When they went to their rooms to find all their favourite items were gone, they were surprised.

    When they asked the owner what happened and received no answer, they were surprised... and a bit hurt. When they stomped around the new house wondering what was going on, and the owner said like it or leave it, they were hurt further. Yes, they recognised that they had lived in the house for free for years.... but had they not helped build the house into what it was today? Had they not been customers at the business next door? Had they not given of themselves in return all along because they appreciated the owner? They had indeed...


    So, yea, I get what happened now. And I do feel for JP... But it took a lot of work just to get a few people in the know to even recognise that the members helped build that library of information and that it was fair for them to be ticked it was gone. It is fair that they expected to be informed. The problem stems from the lack of communication about things for years... it was just assumed that the powers that be were avoiding the questions... which they were and for good reasons - this time.

    I think many of us on both sides of the fence wish that we had not been so harsh or hurried with our posts at first.... but emotions were running high...

    What I'm finding most hard to get used to on this forum is the constant upbeat posts about it. It's like someone who looks at another person who is frowning and says "Smile!"... The person frowning hates that.

    :-<
  • It's hard not to be upbeat when some of us legitimatel like it. I've expressed genuine sympathy towards those who don't but at the end of the day I do, and there's not much I can do about that. Conversely, in certain places I find it hard to deal with constant disparaging remarks about the "twitbook generation" as they're almost implying that I have to be retarded or immature or something to enjoy this current format.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 24,183
    @Kitty Then let me say - and this comes straight from the heart - that what matters most to me is who stayed with us through this delicate change. I was in the know almost as little as you were, Kitty. Seeing the old forum vanish overnight made me lose sleep the next day. I'd be lying if I said I was pleased with it. But I fully support the powers that be and I know they did what they did because they had all the best intentions in the world. Could they have posted something in anticipation? Sure, but the same harsh remarks would have come no matter what. You know how some of the guys on KTBEU mocked and publicly despised the admins. It wouldn't have been all that different. The name calling came too easily.

    What I want more than anything else is for members like yourself, whom I infinitely respect, to be as active here as they once were on KTBEU. We give this digital playground its warmth and joyfulness. We, as a community.
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    Quoting DarthDimi: Now he decided to rebuild the house brick by brick, but some furniture got lost in the process. His hospitality, however, remains the same. And that's where our gratitude is due.
    Well, I think it was more a case of we had a massive old house owned by a bunch of people where we were allowed to hang out. It was somewhere we all loved, but we couldn't renovate. Then someone went and changed all the locks and we were left with nothing.

    Fortunately, some of the owners had been building another house, because they knew what was coming. This was a more modern house, and very different to the familiar old place. However, all the long-standing tenants were invited over to make themselves comfortable.

    Understandably, a few of them wanted back in the old place. It was familiar and had all their stuff in it. But we just didn't have the keys. Nothing we could do. But that didn't stop them throwing accusations about. In fact, rather than say "thanks for giving us somewhere to live" there was a lot of name calling and just plain rudeness.

    Should there have been an explanation? Should there have been a warning? I'm sure we'd have all liked one. But sometimes that's not possible. You just have to trust that things are done for a reason. In this case it was done so that there would be that other house to go to at all.

    Anyway, enough with the metaphor. I'm sorry for the way this has turned out. It might have been handled better. I'm trying to think what I could have said or done differently, but really there's nothing. I did what I thought was right. I'm not sure any of the mods could have done anything else. The admins? Well, I imagine it's the same for those guys.

    The truth is that maybe it could have been handled differently, but everyone bears some of that responsibility. It isn't just about what the admins did or didn't do, or how the mod team handled the transition, but it's also about how every single member reacted.

    It's been emotional for everyone. I think there's been a lot of strong feeling. But I think now there's been a pretty good explanation of things and we just have to make this place as great as it has the potential to be.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    If I may throw my 2p into the hat. I'd be lying if I said I didn't miss KTBEU. Of course I do, this July would mark my 6 years there. But what kept me going back there day after day (or near enough), wasn't so much the look of the forum, but the community, and most of that is still here.

    The milk has been spilt. Rather than stand there cryin why can't we all just grab a mop, and help refil another glass?
  • nick_007nick_007 Ville Marie
    Posts: 443
    Quoting DarthDimi: What I want more than anything else is for members like yourself, whom I infinitely respect, to be as active here as they once were on KTBEU. We give this digital playground its warmth and joyfulness. We, as a community.
    I want to put in the effort to make that happen. Things beyond people's control happened. Let us rebuild.

    Though I hope that if @retrokitty activity increases perhaps she will take on a prettier avatar? 8->
    The one yo have does not suit you kitty. You're not an ass.
  • edited March 2011 Posts: 886
    Quoting retrokitty: What I'm finding most hard to get used to on this forum is the constant upbeat posts about it. It's like someone who looks at another person who is frowning and says "Smile!"... The person frowning hates that.
    I understand your feelings and respect them.

    Not that my stoicism now replaces my underlying feelings still of disappointment/shock (which are easing through more understanding) and certainly don't want to appear like some form of simpering martyr, but at the end of the day as my old Dad used to say, "best foot forward."
    I have to honour him, no matter where I go, as that adage hasn't let me down yet. ^:)^
  • Posts: 638
    Quoting DarthDimi: And a few days in we have already notched up over 3500 posts.
    However the sad part is that I would bet that at least half those posts are people questioning what happened, complaining about what happened or just complaining about the new site. :-(
  • doubleonothingdoubleonothing Los Angeles
    Posts: 864
    Quoting danslittlefinger's Dad: "best foot forward."
    Couldn't agree more.
  • edited March 2011 Posts: 4,622
    Quoting nick_007: Though I hope that if @retrokitty activity increases perhaps she will take on a
    prettier avatar? 8->

    The one yo have does not suit you kitty. You're not an ass.
    But the "cat's ass" can be a term of endearment. Just kidding. Ignore me.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    Posts: 422
    And a thousand thousand slimy things lived on;
    and so did I!

    I looked upon the rotting sea,
    And drew my eyes away;
    I looked upon the rotting deck,
    And there the dead men lay.

    An orphan's curse would drag to hell
    A spirit from on high;
    But oh! more horrible than that
    Is the curse in a dead man's eye!
    Double oh seven days, double oh seven nights, I saw that curse,
    And yet I could not die.

    The self same moment I could pray;
    And from my neck so free
    The Albatross fell off, and sank
    Like lead into the sea.

    But soon I heard the dash of oars,
    I heard the Pilot's cheer;
    My head was turned perforce away,
    And I saw a boat appear.

    He went like one that hath been stunned,
    And is of sense forlorn:
    A sadder and a wiser man
    He rose the morrow morn.
  • Daniel_Craig_Daniel_Craig_ Suspended
    Posts: 5
    Hi. What´s happen with the old community? This new thing is shit! It looks like f**king Facebook. Not my Bond-World! Please delete my account!
  • retrokittyretrokitty The Couv
    Posts: 380
    Quoting timmer:
    Quoting nick_007: Though I hope that if @retrokitty activity increases perhaps she will take on a

    prettier avatar? 8->



    The one yo have does not suit you kitty. You're not an ass.


    But the "cat's ass" can be a term of endearment. Just kidding. Ignore me.
    Thank you, timmer... that's what I was going for. I thought about a tiara but then thought that this old saying was funny. She's the cat's ass = She's really exceptional.


    ;;)
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited March 2011 Posts: 422
    Quoting retrokitty: Thank you, timmer... that's what I was going for. I thought about a tiara but
    then thought that this old saying was funny. She's the cat's ass = She's really
    exceptional.

    I thought it was just the cat version of "speak to the hand"

    PS how did you attach the smiley?
    sorry but I still trying to get the hang of this brave new world...
  • retrokittyretrokitty The Couv
    Posts: 380
    Seve.... the smilies are located by clicking the tiny smilie to the right of the text in the box.

    Hahaha... so people have noticed the avatar and interpreted it but only one has 'got' it. YES!
  • edited March 2011 Posts: 886
    Quoting retrokitty: Seve.... the smilies are located by clicking the tiny smilie to the right of the text in the box.



    Hahaha... so people have noticed the avatar and interpreted it but only one has 'got' it. YES!
    Oh I got it...but expected to see something, well...more retro and kitty from you.
    :-D
    But I digress...
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,582
    @jaguar007
    yes half the posts probably are complaints and negative comments, but isn't that true of most forums?
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2011 Posts: 13,355
    I'd say yes, @NicNac, though not about the actual forum itself. ;-)
  • WillardWhyteWillardWhyte Midnight Society #ProjectMoon
    Posts: 784
    @doubleonothing

    That was a very well written explanation that offered me some of the answers I have been looking for. Thanks for telling us.
  • retrokittyretrokitty The Couv
    edited March 2011 Posts: 380
    Thank Gawd the post count is back. Samuel001 ... congrats on having more than double the posts of any other member - in less than a week. That takes time and commitment.

    ^:)^

    Edited by retrokitty
  • Posts: 50
    Brucie: "What do posts make?"
    Audience: "Prizes!!!!!"

    ;-)
  • I joined the former board years ago. Posted a few times but was still a weekly lurker on the site. I was totally confused when everything vanished. Took me a while to find where the site went to. Others might got lost to. Especially since things redirect to another bond site.

    Not sure I like this forum setup. On the plus side my twitter handle was the same I used on the previous forum I think. I hope everything gets straighten out. This is the only JB site I use.
  • SeveSeve The island of Lemoy
    edited March 2011 Posts: 422
    Quoting WillardWhyte: @doubleonothing

    That was a very well written explanation that offered me some of the answers I have
    been looking for. Thanks for telling us.

    I'd like to second that

    thanks to Luds for soaking up most of the initial flack
    and to others who have posted explanations
    but I find doubleonothings take on the situation rings truest
    ;-)
  • TubesTubes The Hebrew Hammer
    Posts: 158
    I think everything would have gone over better if the initial mod posts where in the tone and manner as @doubleonothing posts where.
  • St_GeorgeSt_George Shuttling Drax's lovelies to the space doughnut - happy 40th, MR!
    edited March 2011 Posts: 1,699
    Quoting Tubes: I think everything would have gone over better if the initial mod posts where in the tone and manner as @doubleonothing posts where.
    That may well be so. But, in all fairness, there have been posts in the last few days like dublo's from other mods and admins - including me - being honest, explaining what happened and in apologetic and collaborative tones. dubster's may well have been the best worded, I'll admit to that, but his hasn't been the only one. Plus, when the balloon did go up at the start of the week, I think it's fair to say the admins were probably doing 17 things at once, not all the mods were online for the first few hours and when they did log-in were faced with exactly the same situation every other member was.

    Communication could - should - have been better. It wasn't, but it's been apologised for. And methinks there has to be a point at which we say s*** happens and move on; we have a new forum to discover, inhabit and embrace as ours. I'm glad so many are... :)
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