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Today has shown us what an oppressive, irresponsible, dangerous man Erdogan is. I already heard that Prime Minister Yildirim was only counting the dead people on the government side (161:Erdogan supporters, the police, government officials) and that he deliberately left out deals on the side of the opposition (coup organizers, military officials, supporters of secularism).
Such unfortunate timing for the continent. Erdogan's autocratic rule will only get worse now. The fact that he wishes to introduce capital punishment for the coup conspirators is a big no-no and I can't imagine anyone in the EU being okay with that one. And if he goes ahead and does it anyway, then we could have big trouble on our hands.
I wouldn't hold my breath. The EU has been very cool about Erdogan and his authoritarian methods. But then again, the EU has never been about democracy.
Maybe so, but if that does turn out to be the case, then the fallout will be insane.
Why is the EU being blamed constantly? What the hell do people want the EU to do, if most people want to see the EU destroyed? The EU lately is being attacked for everything. When it wants to tackle the immigrant crisis drastically, with help of Turkey, it gets blasted. When the EU supports a democratically elected president, it still gets blasted. No one could have predicted this Coup. Even I was completely baffled. So blame Turkey!
But people sometimes tend to forget how fucking complex this all is. Are there people who actually ask themselves what would have happened IF Obama, Merkel, the USA and the EU would have supported the Turkish military who organized that coup? DO WE?
We then would let Erdogan fall in Putin's and China's hands. And if you actually SAY these kind of things, that you support the Coup, then you get war! It's plain and simple. Because one can say you support a Coup, but that means not just a weak support. It meant full support, because Turkey is an official NATO member. And once the USA and certain countries in Europe would have waged a war on Turkey to support the Coup, then THAT would be the escalation of a conflict of our time. An escalation of a conflict that we haven't seen since the Cuba Missile Crisis in 1963.
So please....let's calm down a bit. I also hate Erdogan. Actually @BondJames, the number of deads has now risen to 265. 265! Thousands of judges (2,700) have been removed from their office. And Turkey wants to re-instate the death penalty. In all my genes I will fight against Erdogan and Co.
But my message really is: It...it could have been so so much worse. Let Turkey become what they want to become. As long as we have peace in Europe and the USA. And I am thankful that Obama and Merkel put that on the foregrond......and not reckless emotions.
There's a conflicting message in your statements there, @Gustav. It's really complex yet it's plain and simple? There's no reckless emotion on display here. All that was stated previously was the the US's silence on the situation was extremely quiet nearly seven hours after the coup began as nobody knew what was happening and they issued their statement once they had confirmation that the army was on the back foot and Erdogan was coming back to the country. That's all. When it comes to the midde East and surrounding areas, the US always supports the side that is going to win.
And I think a lot of people in that area of the world would have seen it coming at some point. Even I find Turkey to be a rather unpleasant and uneasy country to be in for the most part. I travel to Odessa via Ataturk a few times a year. A friend of mine was in Ataturk last night when the fighting started. Thankfully she's okay, however she had to hide in a bathroom for a few hours. But the only people this will come as a surprise to are those who haven't been paying attention.
That doesn't take away from how awful it was that the coup happened in the first place and how many lives were lost because of it. It's terrible.
Gadzooks!! When even the foremost political thinker of our time doesn't see it coming then these really are worrying times indeed.
Take things out of context at will
As they say - if you're going to do something, do it right. Then again, we've seen throughout history how executions on a large scale can sway public opinion. Even with that though, I fear it may be too late to stop Erdogan from manipulating his mandate and turning it into a dictatorship. Looks like I won't be visiting Istanbul anytime soon.
Looking back, the coup was very badly planned and executed even worse. I don't know if the blame that has been laid upon Gulenists is entirely valid. I fail to see what they would have to gain from such a smash and grab attempt. However at the same time, any sort of conflict will cause the country hassle both socially and economically so I don't know if a set-up would be something Erdogan would go for. It's hard to judge it so soon after the event but regardless of why it happened or who ordered it, Turkey has fallen a few more steps away from being a real democracy.
The second step: bring the media 100% under control: check
The third step will follow shortly...
It's a massive disgrace indeed. 2745 judges, from lower, higher and supreme courts, have all been fired. And to understand Erdogan's actions, it is important to understand this man:
Fethullah Gülen
He is a religious leader of the more milder, liberal Islam. And he is a much stronger defender of the society created by Atatürk. He supports a strong plural democracy in which most power goes to the parliament, and not to the president. He is also a strong defender of a seculiar Turkey, as opposed to Erdogan.
Nowadays Mr Gülen lives in exile in Pennsylvania, United States. And all of Erdogan's actions today should be understood by knowing the man Gülen. Erdogan blames Fethullah Gülen for the Coup d'Etat. He accuses all the military who executed the Coup yesterday and all of the judiscial system of supporting Gülen. And he accuses Gülen of setting this all in motion.
Hence he now has fired basically the entire judicial system in Turkey. It's an absolute disgrace.
;-).
Yes, but he's way more sane than Erdogan.
http://www.vox.com/2016/7/15/12204176/turkey-coup-trump-response
=)) =))
comparing Merkel to Hitler shows such a lack of insight, mate.
You come up with a solution what we should all do with these refugees from the middle east, were the US & the European countries managed to make a big mess. We can them ship back and let them drown?
Or we could make Africa and the Arab nations responsible for their refugees, which is not something the US or the EU has ever show any inclination too. It must be the oil thing I guess.
Merkel has been a far better humanitarian than most European give her credit for, choosing a human solution over an inhuman solution shows a lot of positive character which I accept better than a bunch of morons choosing to close their borders and spouting the usual anti-German bollocks.
The refugees come her for a reason, we must seek an solution in their place of origin but until that time we cannot let them suffer the same idiocy that made them run in the 1st place.
Which applies quite "randomly". It wasn t the case with Ukraine or Syria, to name only two recent ones.
Finally you're back @SaintMark :-). Thanks for your nuanced remark. I agree.
Yes, yes it was very humane of Merkel to allow the women of her country to be raped by gangs of immigrants on new years eve. She solved a crisis, let's pay no attention to the one she caused.