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BOND POLLS 2016: The Top 10 JAMES BOND-007 Film Ranking Contest (Results: winner!, on page 60)

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  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's the Kara cheese that dates TLD imho. That, the shoulder pads and having Osama's mates as allies. Apart from that it's held up well on account of the classy Euro locales and a classic throwback flavour.

    People often talk about the Kara cheese. Do the same people talk about the Tracy or the Vesper cheese? Sorry but no moment in TLD gets as cheesy as the love montage in OHMSS which is also coming out of nowhere. Compared to that the romance between Bond and Kara at least has some believable development.

    But I must agree that Kara really is annoying and a bit too naive and stupid in some scenes.

    It's a fair point, but at least Tracy and Vesper demonstrated some maturity and that they were smart, strong and articulate women who Bond could credibly fall for. Kara was dated even in the 80's from what I could see - a somewhat helpless, naive throwback as you note.

    If Kara is naive and somewhat helpless, isn't Honey Rider than one of the dumbest Bond girls ever :-P. She's a bit like 'Nell' from the movie with the same name. Or a Robinson Crusoe kind of woman. Quite stupid really, that she actually believes in real dragons.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's the Kara cheese that dates TLD imho. That, the shoulder pads and having Osama's mates as allies. Apart from that it's held up well on account of the classy Euro locales and a classic throwback flavour.

    People often talk about the Kara cheese. Do the same people talk about the Tracy or the Vesper cheese? Sorry but no moment in TLD gets as cheesy as the love montage in OHMSS which is also coming out of nowhere. Compared to that the romance between Bond and Kara at least has some believable development.

    But I must agree that Kara really is annoying and a bit too naive and stupid in some scenes.

    It's a fair point, but at least Tracy and Vesper demonstrated some maturity and that they were smart, strong and articulate women who Bond could credibly fall for. Kara was dated even in the 80's from what I could see - a somewhat helpless, naive throwback as you note.

    If Kara is naive and somewhat helpless, isn't Honey Rider than one of the dumbest Bond girls ever :-P. She's a bit like 'Nell' from the movie with the same name. Or a Robinson Crusoe kind of woman. Quite stupid really, that she actually believes in real dragons.
    Yes, of course, but that is my point. She was from the 60's and was in Jamaica. Uneducated and naive with limited life experience.

    Kara on the other hand is from Slovakia. They are not naive over there (I've visited - lovely women and very sharp and strong). Moreover, this film came after MR, TSWLM, FYEO & OP, all of which showcased smart, capable and advanced women. It just seemed like a cheesy dated depiction, as did LTK with both Lupe & Bouvier. The female elements were weak components of both Dalton films imho.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's the Kara cheese that dates TLD imho. That, the shoulder pads and having Osama's mates as allies. Apart from that it's held up well on account of the classy Euro locales and a classic throwback flavour.

    People often talk about the Kara cheese. Do the same people talk about the Tracy or the Vesper cheese? Sorry but no moment in TLD gets as cheesy as the love montage in OHMSS which is also coming out of nowhere. Compared to that the romance between Bond and Kara at least has some believable development.

    But I must agree that Kara really is annoying and a bit too naive and stupid in some scenes.

    It's a fair point, but at least Tracy and Vesper demonstrated some maturity and that they were smart, strong and articulate women who Bond could credibly fall for. Kara was dated even in the 80's from what I could see - a somewhat helpless, naive throwback as you note.

    If Kara is naive and somewhat helpless, isn't Honey Rider than one of the dumbest Bond girls ever :-P. She's a bit like 'Nell' from the movie with the same name. Or a Robinson Crusoe kind of woman. Quite stupid really, that she actually believes in real dragons.
    Yes, of course, but that is my point. She was from the 60's and was in Jamaica. Uneducated and naive with limited life experience.

    Kara on the other hand is from Slovakia. They are not naive over there (I've visited - lovely women and very sharp and strong). Moreover, this film came after MR, TSWLM, FYEO & OP, all of which showcased smart, capable and advanced women. It just seemed like a cheesy dated depiction, as did LTK with both Lupe & Bouvier. The female elements were weak components of both Dalton films imho.

    I think that's not entirely true. Many women in former soviet nations really were quite naive. Soviet governments in countries like Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Poland at that time really had a policy of 'dumb-ing' the women. They were merely there for being a mother. Emancipation certainly didn't thrive in former Soviet nations :-).
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,368
    Good point! And Honey knows nothing about anything any topics starting with the letter U,V,W,X,Y,or Z!

    The issue with BGs like Goodnight, Rosie Carver, Christmas Jones, etc are they are portraying roles that are completely unbelievable. Goodnight and Carver as secret agents? Jones as a nuclear physicist? You can't have those roles and be completely dumb and lacking any common sense.

    Kara was just an innocent civilian caught in the middle of a plot much bigger than her. So her moments of ditzy-ness are much more justified and I don't find them annoying at all despite hindering Bond from time to time. That's to be expected when a civilian is part of a mission, especially as Bond gets more attached to her.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's the Kara cheese that dates TLD imho. That, the shoulder pads and having Osama's mates as allies. Apart from that it's held up well on account of the classy Euro locales and a classic throwback flavour.

    People often talk about the Kara cheese. Do the same people talk about the Tracy or the Vesper cheese? Sorry but no moment in TLD gets as cheesy as the love montage in OHMSS which is also coming out of nowhere. Compared to that the romance between Bond and Kara at least has some believable development.

    But I must agree that Kara really is annoying and a bit too naive and stupid in some scenes.

    It's a fair point, but at least Tracy and Vesper demonstrated some maturity and that they were smart, strong and articulate women who Bond could credibly fall for. Kara was dated even in the 80's from what I could see - a somewhat helpless, naive throwback as you note.

    If Kara is naive and somewhat helpless, isn't Honey Rider than one of the dumbest Bond girls ever :-P. She's a bit like 'Nell' from the movie with the same name. Or a Robinson Crusoe kind of woman. Quite stupid really, that she actually believes in real dragons.
    Yes, of course, but that is my point. She was from the 60's and was in Jamaica. Uneducated and naive with limited life experience.

    Kara on the other hand is from Slovakia. They are not naive over there (I've visited - lovely women and very sharp and strong). Moreover, this film came after MR, TSWLM, FYEO & OP, all of which showcased smart, capable and advanced women. It just seemed like a cheesy dated depiction, as did LTK with both Lupe & Bouvier. The female elements were weak components of both Dalton films imho.

    I think that's not entirely true. Many women in former soviet nations really were quite naive. Soviet governments in countries like Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Poland at that time really had a policy of 'dumb-ing' the women. They were merely there for being a mother. Emancipation certainly didn't thrive in former Soviet nations :-).
    I disagree. I used to think that way due to the propaganda coming out of our countries. Only after I visited many of these countries did I realize what a load of hooey that was. Of course there are exceptions, but they weren't all fat, unattractive and naive women only there for childbirth. Communism forced many of them to work and be equal partners in many ways. Moreover, I was very impressed with their 'street smarts' when I visited.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    I don't think the intention was to make Kara an in your face strong woman. She was an ordinary woman who is pulled into Bonds world. And after all the strong Bond girls who are claimed to be different from the rest (they rarely are), it makes for a pleasant change for a normal Bond girl who actually was different to those that went before, and those that followed.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited October 2016 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's the Kara cheese that dates TLD imho. That, the shoulder pads and having Osama's mates as allies. Apart from that it's held up well on account of the classy Euro locales and a classic throwback flavour.

    People often talk about the Kara cheese. Do the same people talk about the Tracy or the Vesper cheese? Sorry but no moment in TLD gets as cheesy as the love montage in OHMSS which is also coming out of nowhere. Compared to that the romance between Bond and Kara at least has some believable development.

    But I must agree that Kara really is annoying and a bit too naive and stupid in some scenes.

    It's a fair point, but at least Tracy and Vesper demonstrated some maturity and that they were smart, strong and articulate women who Bond could credibly fall for. Kara was dated even in the 80's from what I could see - a somewhat helpless, naive throwback as you note.

    If Kara is naive and somewhat helpless, isn't Honey Rider than one of the dumbest Bond girls ever :-P. She's a bit like 'Nell' from the movie with the same name. Or a Robinson Crusoe kind of woman. Quite stupid really, that she actually believes in real dragons.
    Yes, of course, but that is my point. She was from the 60's and was in Jamaica. Uneducated and naive with limited life experience.

    Kara on the other hand is from Slovakia. They are not naive over there (I've visited - lovely women and very sharp and strong). Moreover, this film came after MR, TSWLM, FYEO & OP, all of which showcased smart, capable and advanced women. It just seemed like a cheesy dated depiction, as did LTK with both Lupe & Bouvier. The female elements were weak components of both Dalton films imho.

    I think that's not entirely true. Many women in former soviet nations really were quite naive. Soviet governments in countries like Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Poland at that time really had a policy of 'dumb-ing' the women. They were merely there for being a mother. Emancipation certainly didn't thrive in former Soviet nations :-).
    I disagree. I used to think that way due to the propaganda coming out of our countries. Only after I visited many of these countries did I realize what a load of hooey that was. Of course there are exceptions, but they weren't all fat, unattractive and naive women only there for childbirth. Communism forced many of them to work and be equal partners in many ways. Moreover, I was very impressed with their 'street smarts' when I visited.

    Well, let me put it like this then: Emancipation isn't exactly an invention of the Soviet Union :-P. True, a lot of it is propaganda. But many Soviet governments weren't exactly empowering women either. Moreover, Russian culture is very much masculine compared to nations like the USA, Netherlands, UK or Sweden.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited October 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    GBF wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    It's the Kara cheese that dates TLD imho. That, the shoulder pads and having Osama's mates as allies. Apart from that it's held up well on account of the classy Euro locales and a classic throwback flavour.

    People often talk about the Kara cheese. Do the same people talk about the Tracy or the Vesper cheese? Sorry but no moment in TLD gets as cheesy as the love montage in OHMSS which is also coming out of nowhere. Compared to that the romance between Bond and Kara at least has some believable development.

    But I must agree that Kara really is annoying and a bit too naive and stupid in some scenes.

    It's a fair point, but at least Tracy and Vesper demonstrated some maturity and that they were smart, strong and articulate women who Bond could credibly fall for. Kara was dated even in the 80's from what I could see - a somewhat helpless, naive throwback as you note.

    If Kara is naive and somewhat helpless, isn't Honey Rider than one of the dumbest Bond girls ever :-P. She's a bit like 'Nell' from the movie with the same name. Or a Robinson Crusoe kind of woman. Quite stupid really, that she actually believes in real dragons.
    Yes, of course, but that is my point. She was from the 60's and was in Jamaica. Uneducated and naive with limited life experience.

    Kara on the other hand is from Slovakia. They are not naive over there (I've visited - lovely women and very sharp and strong). Moreover, this film came after MR, TSWLM, FYEO & OP, all of which showcased smart, capable and advanced women. It just seemed like a cheesy dated depiction, as did LTK with both Lupe & Bouvier. The female elements were weak components of both Dalton films imho.

    I think that's not entirely true. Many women in former soviet nations really were quite naive. Soviet governments in countries like Slovakia, Hungary, Romania and Poland at that time really had a policy of 'dumb-ing' the women. They were merely there for being a mother. Emancipation certainly didn't thrive in former Soviet nations :-).
    I disagree. I used to think that way due to the propaganda coming out of our countries. Only after I visited many of these countries did I realize what a load of hooey that was. Of course there are exceptions, but they weren't all fat, unattractive and naive women only there for childbirth. Communism forced many of them to work and be equal partners in many ways. Moreover, I was very impressed with their 'street smarts' when I visited.

    Well, let me put it like this then: Emancipation isn't exactly an invention of the Soviet Union :-P. True, a lot of it is propaganda. But many Soviet governments weren't exactly empowering women either. Moreover, Russian culture is very much masculine compared to nations like the USA, Netherlands, UK or Sweden.
    Fair enough. The culture may be that way, but I will say I was impressed with the women, both physically and also with how mentally strong they generally are.

    Gentlemen, if you've not visited Prague, I highly recommend it.
  • GBFGBF
    Posts: 3,197
    I guess both of you are correct. Just keep in mind back in 1987 most people from the East could not know how the West was and vice versa. So probably Kara is just put into a completely new environment and as has been said before not supposed to be a tough girl...
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    GBF wrote: »
    I guess both of you are correct. Just keep in mind back in 1987 most people from the East could not know how the West was and vice versa. So probably Kara is just put into a completely new environment and as has been said before not supposed to be a tough girl...

    She was an innocent musician. Naïve to the shenanigans of Spies and crooked Russian officers.

    She was a decent ordinary girl caught up in a world she knew nothing about. She wasn't perfect and wasn't particularly bright, but she had a guts and determination.

    It actually made a nice change to have that kind of Bond girl.
  • barryt007barryt007
    edited October 2016 Posts: 19,339
    WTF ,i've just seen this....TSWLM now out 'and STILL that bloody thing survives'....by thing ,i mean Kara bloody Milovy...."Take me on the wheel ?"....."yeah ok love,shut up,im doing it ".....and throw her off the top car that i arranged to be stopped.

    TLD latest rant over....time for the football...not a happy bunny ...meh .
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,407
    Dalton and Maryam D'Abo had real chemistry together, which cant be said for a lot of Bonds relationships in the series! And it was nice to see Bond acting as a protector for her! Give me that over pointless forgettable leading ladies like Wai Lin or "yo' momma" Jinx!
    And as was said, TLD was a hugely important Bond film, Fleming would have really loved it..and it starred the best James Bond, what else is there to say?
    Heres hoping GE is next!
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    Dalton and Maryam D'Abo had real chemistry together, which cant be said for a lot of Bonds relationships in the series! And it was nice to see Bond acting as a protector for her! Give me that over pointless forgettable leading ladies like Wai Lin or "yo' momma" Jinx!
    And as was said, TLD was a hugely important Bond film, Fleming would have really loved it..and it starred the best James Bond, what else is there to say?
    Heres hoping GE is next!

    Hear Hear! Well said!

    :)
  • Mathis1Mathis1
    Posts: 7,407
    Agreed! But I would think any author would be happy to see a character he/she created, properly presented on screen? And no matter what you think of Dalton, he went straight to the books, and showed elements of said character, like rage and emotion, that hadn't really been fully presented by messrs Connery, Lazenby and Moore!
    I've not read the 'Jack Reacher' novels, but a work colleague has read all of them, and was horrified at Cruises casting, as he apparently is the polar opposite of lee Childs written character.She cant understand how the author was happy with the casting decision, even making a cameo in the movie! As you've said, must have been paid well!
    But I think fans of the films and novels, like myself were delighted to find an actor who gave us the best of both screen and novel... namely Dalton! I love Craigs portrayal, but I still prefer Timothys take on the rolel!
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    Are you ready for another result guys :-)?
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    TLD ...dump it GG...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I think GE.
    1253886001_office-no.gif

  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Gustav_Graves wrote: »
    Are you ready for another result guys :-)?

    Go for it

  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    Posts: 11,119
    But first some great hommages to agent 007:



    And this one (watch from 6min 55sec and onwards):
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    You're enjoying this aren't you? Stringing us along.
  • Gustav_GravesGustav_Graves
    edited October 2016 Posts: 11,119
    bondjames wrote: »
    You're enjoying this aren't you? Stringing us along.

    Yes, YES I DO dear @BondJames hehe :-P. But it's all so lovely....to stand still for a while.....and enjoy our common passion.

    That latter video is very very interesting though, a lecture about 50 years main title designs for James Bond, all in context with other design trends at certain moments in time.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    10EUROS if u make it TLD next GG...haha ;
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited October 2016 Posts: 9,020
    15 YEN if you make it SF, hell no 100, 150, 1000!!
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Think logically people it can't be GE, TLD will come first.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    GE must beat The Listless Daylights surely....GG get a bloody move on mate !
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Can't wait - but I think GE
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    why not bloody SKYFALL, I know people for some reason still believe it's any good but please...
  • SeanCraigSeanCraig Germany
    Posts: 732
    Well I like it :-) Sorry ;-)
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    I like SF too, I just don't get why people think it's the best since GF or whatever. It's quite ordinary and should belong at the bottom of the upper half.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Do I?
    I think there are quite a few that get hung up a lot more about other films ;)

    I said early on it will end up 4th (SF) and I'm good with that. It's a known fact, it has an avid fanbase here.

    Anyway, I predict TLD next. It's the only "logical" choice at this point.
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