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Isn't it famously said that nothing in Raiders Of the Lost Ark would have happened differently plot-wise if Indiana Jones had been taken out of the film?
Jesus Christ.
Expect to see that quote on your gravestone old chap!
OK, yes, depth wasn't a good choice of words.
I liked the idea of the Bibi character, adding ....an angle? ..to proceedings. A legitimate cover for Kristatos to carry on his shenanigans.
One of Q's favorite sayings is, "Oh, grow up 007." FYEO is the film in which Bond finally does act like an adult, rather than the male fantasy projection he has usually been for so many decades. Bibi is there specifically so that Roger Moore's Bond (old enough to be her father and then some) can buy her an ice cream rather than shagging her as most of the males in the audience desperately want him to do. The fact that he doesn't although she's perfectly willing to have a go with him, frustrates some of us terribly, and we take it out on her by despising the character. Honest, folks, she's there for a reason.
FYEO makes complete emotional sense in its context. After Moonraker, it was felt that Bond needed a more "down-to-Earth," realistic (well, as realistic as Bond gets anyway) adventure. FYEO was constructed entirely with that goal in mind. We begin with a shot of Bond at the grave of his late wife. This is one of the rare instances where we actually see Bond acknowledging the consequences of the life he leads. People die and are mourned. And yes, in Bond's world they are avenged...and so, Blofeld. We could have simply assumed that he had died at the close of DAF...but come on, in this type of story, if you don't see the body you can be sure they aren't really dead. This time he's dead for sure. You may or may not feel like it was a proper death, but it was the only one Cubby Broccoli was willing to give Kevin McClory. A delicatessen in stainless steel, Kevin. Take it or leave it, it's the last thing you're gonna get from us.
Then we have Melina and her quest for revenge on the killer of her parents. This plotline is the emotional core of this film, and it's direct from the Fleming short story that gives us the title for this film. Bond, who is a killer many times over, knows the emotional and spiritual effect that the act of killing has on the human psyche -- and he wants to spare Melina from suffering the same scars he has learned to bear. This is why he tells her the parable of digging the two graves, and this is why it's better for the story to have Columbo kill Kristatos rather than letting Melina perform the fatal deed. Of course, she did kill Gonzales, so her hands aren't entirely clean...
But the point being, this is a Bond film with a more adult sensibility regarding violence and its consequences, as well as the complexities of international relationships. While this thread has been quite clear on the discussion of "detante, comrade," I felt it important that we note the emotional dimensions of this film as well. Bibi Dahl in particular has never been given her due by the fan community. I detested her just as much as most of you in my initial viewing of this film, but as time has passed I've gained a new appreciation for her role in this, my favorite Roger Moore outing as 007.
How was it a fake? I thought Andrea had sent it (from Scaramanga's stock).
An impassioned defence of Bibi! I've heard it all now.
What you say about Bond acting with maturity might have some credence here but it doesn't seem to bother him a few films later with Stacey where the age gap is similarly cringeworthy (although he does wait until the end rather than jumping on her after she's stuffed full of quiche and wine).
I never got a sense that Bibi was supposed to be actually under age, just too young for Bond.
Post FYEO Bond really seems to care about his Bond girls. This also applies to his allies who all die in the John Glen films.There is also more like a father daughter relationship between Bond and Melina as well as between Bond and Stacey. The final love scenes in these two films are more there for the tradition of the Moore films.
I can see that you know the type of bullets involved, but does Bond know the type of bullet Scaramanga actually uses? If Bond knows it is a fake then he'd know it wasn't from Scaramanga and therefore he'd know he wasn't under threat from him.
Presumably, Bibi was about 16-18.
Pointless.
By the time they re-launched with CR and younger members on here yodelled and howled about time lines I was way past caring about such matters.
As for Bibi, it's largely that she is supposed to be too young for him as stated many times on here (she acts like a 15 year old but is probably supposed to be 18 or 19) but maybe also Bond is aware that she can be somewhat indiscreet and maybe her 'Uncle' would find out sooner rather than later and that would scupper the help he could offer Bond.
Besides he has the infinitely older Melina waiting in the wings.
Er, didn't Indy find the Ark.....and weren't the Nazi's digging in the wrong place..?
Still my favourite Rog film!
Sadly he had the opportunity to offer a punchy twist half way through when Colombo tells Bond the truth about him and Kristatos, and somehow he (Glen) fails to deliver. The scene is almost tossed aside so that we can get on with the warehouse raid sequence.
I do love Moore's reaction when Colombo points his own Walther at him!
And the way he refuses to drink with Colombo, but does so anyway within a minute or two. =D> . Moore does play that scene well, although he's very good throughout.
Yeah, I think Moore is great in the film. Still a typical Rog 007 but with a tougher edge.
It is an interesting twist since it reveals that someone who is supposed to be a villain is actually an ally. Usually it is the other way arund: Elektra, Alec, Boris, Frost, Mitchell.
So have we in any way cleared up the FYEO plot?
Bond is sent to find Gonzales. Understandable as he has killed a British agent. But we don't know what is happening with the ATAC after Sir Timothy is killed.
Bond is later sent after the ATAC. Why was there a hold up? Clearly if Bond was busy with Gonzalez someone could have looked for the ATAC.
Actually MI6 had two options:
1. Find the ATAC and bring it back to MI6 or destroy it.
2. Find out who your enemies are and prevent them from getting the ATAC.
I think they ignored option 1 in the first place because it was just a big task to raise the ATAC , especially since they thought that there were no notes on its locations and it was difficult - as Haveloc's death indicates - to operate secretly in that region.
Hence it was feasible that Bond's priority was to find out who is behind all that what was going on. His first trail was Gonzales, than Loque and then Columbo. For the MI6 it was not so bad that the ATAC was still hidden on the sea floor. Their main objective was to keep it from falling in the wrong hands.