The World Is Not Enough appreciation thread

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  • Posts: 19,339
    Jinx is the worst Bond girl of the lot ,except Kara of course.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,996
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Jinx is the worst Bond girl of the lot ,except Kara of course.

    Shouldn't you be watching the footie?!!

    Mind you, its a crap game!
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    edited April 2017 Posts: 1,889
    bondjames wrote: »
    The issue I have with Richards is that she is not credible as the character she is playing. A nuclear physicist? Really? Doesn't work for me. The same goes for Berry as Jinx. I just couldn't suspend disbelief sufficiently to buy them in character.

    At least Loopy (misspelling intentional), Goodhead, Wai Lin etc. seemed somewhat credible in their roles. Knuckleheads like Bibi & Goodnight were meant to be just that - ditzy.

    Are you implying that women can't be both extremely beautiful and smart, @bondjames ? That's pretty sexist, n'est-ce pas? :/
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    The issue I have with Richards is that she is not credible as the character she is playing. A nuclear physicist? Really? Doesn't work for me. The same goes for Berry as Jinx. I just couldn't suspend disbelief sufficiently to buy them in character.

    At least Loopy (misspelling intentional), Goodhead, Wai Lin etc. seemed somewhat credible in their roles. Knuckleheads like Bibi & Goodnight were meant to be just that - ditzy.

    Are you implying that women can't be both extremely beautiful and smart, @bondjames ? That's pretty sexist, n'est-ce pas? :/
    I don't see how I could be implying that, given I said that Goodhead (a Dr, an astronaut and a spy) was credible.

    Having said that, these are Bond films, so they tend to be relatively sexist, at least until lately.

    No, I am saying Richards is not credible as a physicist. Not one bit. That's all.
  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    Then I don't get the hate for her since her acting is no worse than Goodhead's. What makes her more credible than Jones?
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Then I don't get the hate for her since her acting is no worse than Goodhead's. What makes her more credible than Jones?
    It's all in there in the comments, mate. Made obvious. They are bad because of who they are. Denise Richards and Madonna are both dragged under that umbrella. And Jinx is hated because of her "Yo Mamma" line so that discredits her for the entire film. That's all.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    @ClarkDevlin nail hit on head, totally.

    Halle Berry may not have been perfect as Jinx, but she sure made an impact and was very popular and still is. Just here she gets all the hate from the usual bunch of Brosnan-era haters.

    It's funny how in EVERY SINGLE Bond montage showed at Oscar's, GoldenGlobes, and about every other film award show HALLE BERRY always gets a very prominent spot.
    Just strange isn't it.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,423
    Precisely, Jason.
  • In the aftermath of a very good film in Goldeneye and a pretty lousy film in Tomorrow never dies, this was the second best broz bond. Directed in a solid if unspectacular way, this story needed the ooomph at the end of the story that the producers and/or the director did not want to go for, they did not want to show Bond shooting the villain in cold blood, and cut away.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    I'm one of the biggest Brosnan fans here and even I think Jinx is a bottom tier Bond girl. She's easy on the eyes but she's so annoying with her trying to outsmart and one up Bond. Is she the worst thing about the film? Not at all. The worst part about Die Another Day is it's ability to destroy my suspension of disbelief by the second and final act.

    Christmas Jones only has less than a hand full of scenes and isn't even the focus of the scene's she's in after her introduction. Miscast yes but not as bad as Jinx.

    I like my Bond girls smart and exotic. Not picked out of the latest GQ magazine.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Denise Richards is far from being TWINE's main problem or a problem at all.

    The same folks can't stop beating Jinx (Halle Berry) over her head just because she utters one short rather silly "Yo mama".

    Sometimes I think certain people don't deserve to be Bond fans. They are just spoiled brats.

    Jinx is the worst Bond girl though. Annoying and trying to steal screen time she doesn't really deserve.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,351
    Agreed.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 11,189
    suavejmf wrote: »
    Denise Richards is far from being TWINE's main problem or a problem at all.

    The same folks can't stop beating Jinx (Halle Berry) over her head just because she utters one short rather silly "Yo mama".

    Sometimes I think certain people don't deserve to be Bond fans. They are just spoiled brats.

    Jinx is the worst Bond girl though. Annoying and trying to steal screen time she doesn't really deserve.


    Agreed, she seems to think its her film.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Then I don't get the hate for her since her acting is no worse than Goodhead's. What makes her more credible than Jones?
    Her acting is no worse than Chiles? I'm afraid I disagree. I've found Chiles to be quite agreeable in several films I've seen her in and in MR as well. I found her character smart, sassy and a match for Roger's Bond (who's normally one sharp cookie).

    Richard just wasn't credible to my eyes. It doesn't help that she's an awful actress (wooden as a plank) and completely botched her line delivery on several occasions, as follows:

    "Avoiding those kind of questions, just like you."
    "I don't know. But the world's greatest terrorist running around with 6 kilos of plutonium can't be good. I have to get it back, or somebody will have my ass."
    "Or sour cream." (*giggles*)
    "Are you here for a reason? Or are you just hoping for a glimmer? And you are...?"

    Emphasis on the wrong words in some instances, monotone delivery in others, and expressionless as can be. Marceau seemed much sharper and could have easily been cast as the physicist instead. I honestly thought they were taking the piss with this casting choice.
  • I'll take Xmas jones over the too-skinny Chiles any day of the week.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,575
    Richards was the flavor of the week. With Wild Things and Starship Troopers. Im just trying to think who would have been better besides the cliched "anyone but her" answer
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I'll take Xmas jones over the too-skinny Chiles any day of the week.
    Take her? I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll take her anyway she's willing to put out. I just don't rate her as an actress.

    Wild Things is excellent and made for her talents. Particularly the car wash scene in slow motion.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 11,189


    I wonder whether the line "are you here for a reason?" in TWINE is a nod to the similar line here.

    I'm not THAT fond of Louis Chiles either but I her "Trust? Out of the question" exchange with Moore is perfectly played. Pretty much every line Richards says is laughably bad.

    I wouldn't say Richards is irritating though in the same way Goodnight or Jinx are. More of an "aww bless her" quality.
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,195
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'll take Xmas jones over the too-skinny Chiles any day of the week.
    Take her? I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll take her anyway she's willing to put out. I just don't rate her as an actress.

    Wild Things is excellent and made for her talents. Particularly the car wash scene in slow motion.

    The obvious aside, and on another note, literally, Wild Things has a great soundtrack.

  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,889
    bondjames wrote: »
    Then I don't get the hate for her since her acting is no worse than Goodhead's. What makes her more credible than Jones?
    Her acting is no worse than Chiles? I'm afraid I disagree. I've found Chiles to be quite agreeable in several films I've seen her in and in MR as well. I found her character smart, sassy and a match for Roger's Bond (who's normally one sharp cookie).

    Richard just wasn't credible to my eyes. It doesn't help that she's an awful actress (wooden as a plank) and completely botched her line delivery on several occasions, as follows:

    "Avoiding those kind of questions, just like you."
    "I don't know. But the world's greatest terrorist running around with 6 kilos of plutonium can't be good. I have to get it back, or somebody will have my ass."
    "Or sour cream." (*giggles*)
    "Are you here for a reason? Or are you just hoping for a glimmer? And you are...?"

    Emphasis on the wrong words in some instances, monotone delivery in others, and expressionless as can be. Marceau seemed much sharper and could have easily been cast as the physicist instead. I honestly thought they were taking the piss with this casting choice.

    Well, out of those lines I'd say "sour cream" is the sole bad delivery where I roll my eyes but otherwise it's all fine because it's her character. I like the 2nd one you pointed out due to Brosnan's "first thing's first" quip afterwards.

    Sure, Denise ain't a great actress compared to Marceau but that doesn't mean that she's awful. Nor does it make her less credible in the role.
  • RC7RC7
    edited April 2017 Posts: 10,512
    Then I don't get the hate for her since her acting is no worse than Goodhead's. What makes her more credible than Jones?
    It's all in there in the comments, mate. Made obvious. They are bad because of who they are. Denise Richards and Madonna are both dragged under that umbrella. And Jinx is hated because of her "Yo Mamma" line so that discredits her for the entire film. That's all.

    Jinx isn't slated because of her "Yo Mama" line, she's slated because her entire performance is utterly terrible. The "Yo Mama" line is the zenith, it represents everything that's bad about her character and her performance which is why it's referenced.
    @ClarkDevlin nail hit on head, totally.

    Halle Berry may not have been perfect as Jinx, but she sure made an impact and was very popular and still is. Just here she gets all the hate from the usual bunch of Brosnan-era haters.

    It's funny how in EVERY SINGLE Bond montage showed at Oscar's, GoldenGlobes, and about every other film award show HALLE BERRY always gets a very prominent spot.
    Just strange isn't it.

    Clutching at straws their, mate.

    I'd be interested to know what you and @ClarkDevlin find so interesting about her performance, rather than digging Brosnan haters (which I am not). 'She was very popular and still is', 'She's in montages' don't really stack up as far as I'm concerned, they're just words.

    As I've already pointed out, there are myriad examples of Berry doing her best to sink the ship. The film ticks along pretty effortlessly until she appears and the initial Cuban scenes are neat, then we get the intro. Between Tamahori's lifeless direction and Berry's terrible, perfume ad performance, we get a completely subpar homage to Andress. In this one shot alarm bells are ringing; it plays like a comedy.

    Then we have her initial exchange with Brosnan - up until this point Broz has been decent, but she just drags him into the abyss. The whole back and forth is arguably the worst written and performed scene in the canon and by far the most cringeworthy introduction to a Bond girl ever. Next to this Richards intro seems excellent.

    And it continues... the exchange with Dr. Alvarez - ridiculous facial animation, bizarre intonation, the general affectation. And on... 'Here for the vieeeew again'. And on... 'Oh yeah, I think I got the thrust of it.' And on... 'Switch them off, or I'll be half the girl I used to be!' And on... 'He did yooou?'

    Endlessly awful. And this isn't about poor writing, there's been subpar writing throughout the series, but most of these are reasonably generic lines that a competent actor would deliver with some class. Berry absolutely mangles them in the search for some sort of sassy, girl power performance.

    Watch it again. She ruins every scene.

  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 8,195
    I agree, she either choose to play the part that way or was directed, either way Berry was not very good in DAD; she is capable of better.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    edited April 2017 Posts: 15,423
    I don't find her performance particularly interesting. She's the leftover of the 1990s sassy, self-convinced need-no-man type of a girl trying to show everyone she can do anything without anyone's help. And believe me when I tell you, Jinx is a character built on stereotype. Often gets beaten, and despite her overconfidence, gets saved by Bond and continues with her "bad attitude". That's not worse than any of the Bond Girls Brosnan and Dalton combined had, other than Sophie Marceau obviously.

    She's that type of girl, and that isn't a favourite of mine. But, all the lines out there you mentioned doesn't slightly tick a box of irritation with me the way it does with the majority of you. It's like you're forcing yourselves to hate the movie just because it's over-the-top and as some of you say, "ridiculous". I find Berry's performance a lot better than Michelle Yeoh's or at times even Izabella Scorupco's. Despite her flaws, she actually has great flavors, too. But, you choose to ignore it because it's not "serious.". You're right, and everyone else is wrong.

    Lots of actor performance routines changed in the pacing of ten years, and especially with the arrival of the post-9/11 era, every actor is now changing one's own routine to blend in as "serious actors". Before that, they didn't have to. Just watch the most of the 1990s action movies and you'll see the difference yourself.

    For all it's worth, I'd rather have another Jinx come in and sex things up a little than have another Madeleine Swann play the "tragedy girl" type of character and almost bore me to death. That's my opinion.
  • RC7RC7
    edited April 2017 Posts: 10,512
    IBut, all the lines out there you mentioned doesn't slightly tick a box of irritation with me the way it does with the majority of you. It's like you're forcing yourselves to hate the movie just because it's over-the-top and as some of you say, "ridiculous".

    I don't hate DAD at all. I've always defended it. My irritation is with the fact Berry makes it a much lesser film, purely through her performance.
    I find Berry's performance a lot better than Michelle Yeoh's or at times even Izabella Scorupco's. Despite her flaws, she actually has great flavors, too. But, you choose to ignore it because it's not "serious.". You're right, and everyone else is wrong.

    I certainly haven't ignored anything. I've outlined where and why I feel Berry dismantles the film with her performance, but it would be interesting for you to do the same because I don't see anything that trumps Scorupco, or Yeoh.
    Lots of actor performance routines changed in the pacing of ten years, and especially with the arrival of the post-9/11 era, every actor is now changing one's own routine to blend in as "serious actors". Before that, they didn't have to. Just watch the most of the 1990s action movies and you'll see the difference yourself.

    This is just waffle. Berry isn't bad because she's not "serious", Berry is bad because she's bad, plain and simple. People acted capably in blockbusters prior to 9/11.
    For all it's worth, I'd rather have another Jinx come in and sex things up a little than have another Madeleine Swann play the "tragedy girl" type of character and almost bore me to death. That's my opinion.

    I think we should set an appointment for you with the doctor.
  • Posts: 11,189
    Berry is annoying before she even opens her mouth. The way she milks the moment she comes out of the water is almost like something out of a soft core porn film.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Agreed.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    Berry is annoying before she even opens her mouth. The way she milks the moment she comes out of the water is almost like something out of a soft core porn film.

    Exactly. It's bloody awful.
  • Posts: 11,189
    You can imagine Tamahori with a megaphone shouting. "Ok Halle, gaze towards the camera a bit more, now rum your hands through your hair. Yes, people are going to love this".
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Totally with you @RC7. Your comments mirror my thoughts on Berry completely. When I last watched DAD a few weeks back, she was indeed the most annoying thing in it. She was, by that time, an Oscar winning actress. Yet she goes out of her way to exaggerate everything she delivers on screen. That exchange with the Dr. in Cuba is one of the worst pieces of acting in the film. It's so hammy I cringe whenever I watch it.

    Now, Brosnan himself was known to be a master at this too, but he was extremely restrained and in control in DAD, and it was Berry who went out of her way to overdo it in every scene.

    It was completely unnecessary, because she's highly charismatic. All she had to do was tone it down and stop trying to outdo everyone in every scene. She should have just underplayed it rather than overplaying.

    If I could use one word to describe her Jinx, it would be trashy, which is something nobody wants in a Bond film.
    ---
    talos7 wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    I'll take Xmas jones over the too-skinny Chiles any day of the week.
    Take her? I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll take her anyway she's willing to put out. I just don't rate her as an actress.

    Wild Things is excellent and made for her talents. Particularly the car wash scene in slow motion.

    The obvious aside, and on another note, literally, Wild Things has a great soundtrack.
    Absolutely. A superb atmospheric score. That opening scene when Matt Dillon is on the airboat is truly something due to the setting and the score.

    BAIN123 wrote: »


    I wonder whether the line "are you here for a reason?" in TWINE is a nod to the similar line here.

    I'm not THAT fond of Louis Chiles either but I her "Trust? Out of the question" exchange with Moore is perfectly played. Pretty much every line Richards says is laughably bad.

    I wouldn't say Richards is irritating though in the same way Goodnight or Jinx are. More of an "aww bless her" quality.
    Thanks for posting that. This is her speciality. Seduction, not physics.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Agreed.
    RC7 wrote: »
    IBut, all the lines out there you mentioned doesn't slightly tick a box of irritation with me the way it does with the majority of you. It's like you're forcing yourselves to hate the movie just because it's over-the-top and as some of you say, "ridiculous".

    I don't hate DAD at all. I've always defended it. My irritation is with the fact Berry makes it a much lesser film, purely through her performance.
    I find Berry's performance a lot better than Michelle Yeoh's or at times even Izabella Scorupco's. Despite her flaws, she actually has great flavors, too. But, you choose to ignore it because it's not "serious.". You're right, and everyone else is wrong.

    I certainly haven't ignored anything. I've outlined where and why I feel Berry dismantles the film with her performance, but it would be interesting for you to do the same because I don't see anything that trumps Scorupco, or Yeoh.
    Lots of actor performance routines changed in the pacing of ten years, and especially with the arrival of the post-9/11 era, every actor is now changing one's own routine to blend in as "serious actors". Before that, they didn't have to. Just watch the most of the 1990s action movies and you'll see the difference yourself.

    This is just waffle. Berry isn't bad because she's not "serious", Berry is bad because she's bad, plain and simple. People acted capably in blockbusters prior to 9/11.
    For all it's worth, I'd rather have another Jinx come in and sex things up a little than have another Madeleine Swann play the "tragedy girl" type of character and almost bore me to death. That's my opinion.

    I think we should set an appointment for you with the doctor.

    I'm with RC7. My irritation is also with the fact Berry makes it a much lesser film, purely through her performance. She's annoying and crap. Even her Lesbian short hair annoys me. The only positive thing I can say about Jinx is that she has nice boobs. Bar that, nothing.
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